Why would we have improved

[ritchie]

Ok the level is lower, but anyone who expected us to fly out and steamroller derby are naive
All probably been said but been taking a break from here for a bit.

we've sold our best rb (replaced with an unknown, and are playing someone nobody rated, prob not even jan)
sold our best lb (not replaced, and weakened our cb spot)
sold billing who was one of our better players this time last year
lost a decent keeper
not playing zanka (need to cut our losses, could have replaced with a good defender even at a cut price fee)
our best player mooy is gone
changed assistant manager
pissed around with directors of football (think hes a good app but why not in january?)
not signed the creative player we needed
our top hope on the wings are players who have done nothing (still think they could, but its a risk to not have brought in someone with a better track record, move on col)
brought in 20m+ in fees alone and spent practically nowt

We've weakened ourselves, and signed kids (like the idea of koroma and brown but they should just be bonus signings) and 1 decent first teamer (think he will still be an decent enough signing elphick). Kept a core of players who are lacking confidence and not even remotely freshened it up imo. 

I'm yet to be convinced by jan and at least hoped us to look better organised, fitter, (Im not reading too much into yesterdays game though) but before calling for his head the chairman needs to put his hand in his pocket because i'm at a loss as to what is going on in that regard. Give him the best chance then get rid if not. 

When dean and phil said it would be a huge summer maybe they expected the good weather to last as long as last year 

[Deleted]

* Barrel scraped for every possible negative alert *

[ritchie]

Aug 6, 2019 17:50:30 GMT 1 @mrx said:

* Barrel scraped for every possible negative alert *

Yes, to try make a point about why we shouldnt have expected much improvement. i've also countered a lot with potential positives)

[Ross83]

Aug 6, 2019 17:50:30 GMT 1 @mrx said:

* Barrel scraped for every possible negative alert *

He's right though, we've not freshened that outfield squad what so ever, apart from Elphick who was for me the most underwhelming signing we made.

I think we've massively misjudged the gap between the top Championship teams and the bottom PL teams. That gap is divided by a line between the divisions and that is all.

[Yuta be a terrier]

I think the hope was that a lower quality level of opposition coupled with a prolonged period for Siewert to work with the players away from the games might lead to us getting a win. Then we can build from there.
You are right that much is still the same but to me last night proved one thing and that is that the tactics and system are crap. It's one thing being picked off by Leicester at home or Man City but for Derby to do it just shows that it's definitely us that's the problem not the level of the opposition.
Even if we win one game I don't see long term success with JS he doesn't lead from the front like Wagner did and it looks like the players know this too.

Reality is that the fans are pig sick of losing. If we had nicked a 2 2 yesterday we wouldn't be in meltdown. We have had 20 months of crap results.

Get rid and get Karanka in.

[ritchie]

Aug 6, 2019 18:10:22 GMT 1 Yuta be a terrier said:

I think the hope was that a lower quality level of opposition coupled with a prolonged period for Siewert to work with the players away from the games might lead to us getting a win. Then we can build from there.
You are right that much is still the same but to me last night proved one thing and that is that the tactics and system are crap. It's one thing being picked off by Leicester at home or Man City but for Derby to do it just shows that it's definitely us that's the problem not the level of the opposition.
Even if we win one game I don't see long term success with JS he doesn't lead from the front like Wagner did and it looks like the players know this too.

Reality is that the fans are pig sick of losing. If we had nicked a 2 2 yesterday we wouldn't be in meltdown. We have had 20 months of crap results.

Get rid and get Karanka in.

Could be right, but wagner was given "his" players. If we'd have started off poorly in the promotion season then he would have rightly been under criticism.

whether we rate him or not (I still want him to be given time), can we honestly say he's been given what he wants? maybe he wants different style wingers but we wont give him them because what we've spent there?

Did he know who elphick, the person who was at fault for the change of the game last night, was?

Was he told "tommy smith wants to leave, but you will get ~5m to spend to replace him" and he said, "well go get me bockhorn!"?

[richhtfc]

Why is ‘our best player Mooy gone’ have I missed something?

[Million Dollar Babies]

Aug 6, 2019 18:10:22 GMT 1 Yuta be a terrier said:

I think the hope was that a lower quality level of opposition coupled with a prolonged period for Siewert to work with the players away from the games might lead to us getting a win. Then we can build from there.
You are right that much is still the same but to me last night proved one thing and that is that the tactics and system are crap. It's one thing being picked off by Leicester at home or Man City but for Derby to do it just shows that it's definitely us that's the problem not the level of the opposition.
Even if we win one game I don't see long term success with JS he doesn't lead from the front like Wagner did and it looks like the players know this too.

Reality is that the fans are pig sick of losing. If we had nicked a 2 2 yesterday we wouldn't be in meltdown. We have had 20 months of crap results.

Get rid and get Karanka in.

Karanka? He'd be well down on the list

Hughton would be the sensible choice if we want someone to come in and get us organised

[ritchie]

Aug 6, 2019 18:40:24 GMT 1 richhtfc said:

Why is ‘our best player Mooy gone’ have I missed something?

sorry should be "Looks gone"

[Yuta be a terrier]

Aug 6, 2019 18:32:28 GMT 1 ritchie said:

Aug 6, 2019 18:10:22 GMT 1 Yuta be a terrier said:

I think the hope was that a lower quality level of opposition coupled with a prolonged period for Siewert to work with the players away from the games might lead to us getting a win. Then we can build from there.
You are right that much is still the same but to me last night proved one thing and that is that the tactics and system are crap. It's one thing being picked off by Leicester at home or Man City but for Derby to do it just shows that it's definitely us that's the problem not the level of the opposition.
Even if we win one game I don't see long term success with JS he doesn't lead from the front like Wagner did and it looks like the players know this too.

Reality is that the fans are pig sick of losing. If we had nicked a 2 2 yesterday we wouldn't be in meltdown. We have had 20 months of crap results.

Get rid and get Karanka in.

Could be right, but wagner was given "his" players. If we'd have started off poorly in the promotion season then he would have rightly been under criticism.

whether we rate him or not (I still want him to be given time), can we honestly say he's been given what he wants? maybe he wants different style wingers but we wont give him them because what we've spent there?

Did he know who elphick, the person who was at fault for the change of the game last night, was?

Was he told "tommy smith wants to leave, but you will get ~5m to spend to replace him" and he said, "well go get me bockhorn!"?

Does he strike you as the sort of bloke who bangs on the chairman's door and tells him what he wants? Or does he strike you as a nice guy who knows he is out of his depth and is happy to have what he is given (which is a talented championship squad). Wagner gave us an identity and some positives to hold onto in his first half season and that squad was crap. Can you honestly say Siewert has done that in any game so far?

[Yuta be a terrier]

Aug 6, 2019 18:42:05 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

Aug 6, 2019 18:10:22 GMT 1 Yuta be a terrier said:

I think the hope was that a lower quality level of opposition coupled with a prolonged period for Siewert to work with the players away from the games might lead to us getting a win. Then we can build from there.
You are right that much is still the same but to me last night proved one thing and that is that the tactics and system are crap. It's one thing being picked off by Leicester at home or Man City but for Derby to do it just shows that it's definitely us that's the problem not the level of the opposition.
Even if we win one game I don't see long term success with JS he doesn't lead from the front like Wagner did and it looks like the players know this too.

Reality is that the fans are pig sick of losing. If we had nicked a 2 2 yesterday we wouldn't be in meltdown. We have had 20 months of crap results.

Get rid and get Karanka in.

Karanka? He'd be well down on the list

Hughton would be the sensible choice if we want someone to come in and get us organised

Hughton would cost a fortune and would be top of every championship clubs list. Karanka more realistic in my opinion.

[The King's Head 1230]

What does Tommy Elphick & the other Blackpool donkeys have for dinner?.................

Half hour like every fucker else.

[oldtimer50]

iv never taken to js i think he,s out of his depth summer signings embarrassing change of chairman to one that does,nt have a pot to piss in and he,s already said theres no money.I hate to say it but a return to the good old bad days,ie managers and chairmen is a big possability if we dont get our house in order on and off the field.
we come from aimbry superstars are we utt

[joeyjoneslocker]

All about the money again. It’s becoming tiresome.
What do people not get? The money is to sustain our club, not buy bloody Messi.

[Made In Yorkshire]

Aug 6, 2019 18:04:16 GMT 1 Ross83 said:

Aug 6, 2019 17:50:30 GMT 1 @mrx said:

* Barrel scraped for every possible negative alert *

He's right though, we've not freshened that outfield squad what so ever, apart from Elphick who was for me the most underwhelming signing we made.

I think we've massively misjudged the gap between the top Championship teams and the bottom PL teams. That gap is divided by a line between the divisions and that is all.

The warning signs were there in our early exits from last season's cup games. Lincoln could well be up for next week's game and who can blame them.

[Detective Boyle]

The gap between the midfield and defence was frightening last night. Not entirely his fault, but Hogg was nowhere to be seen and they had acres to run in.

[ritchie]

Aug 6, 2019 19:50:47 GMT 1 joeyjoneslocker said:

All about the money again. It’s becoming tiresome.
What do people not get? The money is to sustain our club, not buy bloody Messi.

Define sustain? sustain really should show a level of ambition equal to our revenue/level.
Hoyle spent more not only in actual fees, but also relative to imcome/expedeture in level in the season we went up - was he putting the club in danger? Or was it that he sensed the opportunity?

How is selling our best rb for 5m and replacing him for a cheap unknown sustaining the club? unless you are suggesting we needed that money to pay wages? Apparently we didnt want to sell him

It's got to be relative we could spread the money over 10 years but the club would likely be dropping down

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Aug 6, 2019 20:19:00 GMT 1 Detective Boyle said:

The gap between the midfield and defence was frightening last night. Not entirely his fault, but Hogg was nowhere to be seen and they had acres to run in.

It was laughable, that shouldn't happen in a 433 formation, you should dominate midfield but we didn't. You should be compact with the two wing strikers coming back to block the wings off in times of defence, in fact it was the opposite, badly exposing the back 4.

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Aug 6, 2019 17:48:52 GMT 1 ritchie said:

Ok the level is lower, but anyone who expected us to fly out and steamroller derby are naive
All probably been said but been taking a break from here for a bit.

we've sold our best rb (replaced with an unknown, and are playing someone nobody rated, prob not even jan)
sold our best lb (not replaced, and weakened our cb spot)
sold billing who was one of our better players this time last year
lost a decent keeper
not playing zanka (need to cut our losses, could have replaced with a good defender even at a cut price fee)
our best player mooy is gone
changed assistant manager
pissed around with directors of football (think hes a good app but why not in january?)
not signed the creative player we needed
our top hope on the wings are players who have done nothing (still think they could, but its a risk to not have brought in someone with a better track record, move on col)
brought in 20m+ in fees alone and spent practically nowt

We've weakened ourselves, and signed kids (like the idea of koroma and brown but they should just be bonus signings) and 1 decent first teamer (think he will still be an decent enough signing elphick). Kept a core of players who are lacking confidence and not even remotely freshened it up imo. 

I'm yet to be convinced by jan and at least hoped us to look better organised, fitter, (Im not reading too much into yesterdays game though) but before calling for his head the chairman needs to put his hand in his pocket because i'm at a loss as to what is going on in that regard. Give him the best chance then get rid if not. 

When dean and phil said it would be a huge summer maybe they expected the good weather to last as long as last year 

Derby did actually look much fitter than we did especially in the first half maybe they just had their tails up but they did. I also think what was telling was that only 2 if the starting 11 were summer signings leaving the rest of the line up with last season's players, how is that an improvement on last season? It isn't.

[joeyjoneslocker]

Aug 7, 2019 0:24:31 GMT 1 ritchie said:

Aug 6, 2019 19:50:47 GMT 1 joeyjoneslocker said:

All about the money again. It’s becoming tiresome.
What do people not get? The money is to sustain our club, not buy bloody Messi.

Define sustain? sustain really should show a level of ambition equal to our revenue/level.
Hoyle spent more not only in actual fees, but also relative to imcome/expedeture in level in the season we went up - was he putting the club in danger? Or was it that he sensed the opportunity?

How is selling our best rb for 5m and replacing him for a cheap unknown sustaining the club? unless you are suggesting we needed that money to pay wages? Apparently we didnt want to sell him

It's got to be relative we could spread the money over 10 years but the club would likely be dropping down

Keeping our main assets whilst not paying ridiculous transfer fees is showing sustainability.
Your second paragraph is just politely presumptuous. I didn’t rate Smith very much and I aren’t suggesting where the money is going and the full back is an unknown quantity. It may work out to the best bit of business we have done for a while, or he might just be crap, time will tell. 
If, after the January transfer window, we are not in the position hoped (in my opinion top 10) and have not strengthened the squad using some real money, then I will be disappointed. To moan now that we are not spending (tell me who is available, who would come to Huddersfield and who would strengthen our team) is just silly and short sighted. 

[royrace]

Aug 7, 2019 7:37:11 GMT 1 joeyjoneslocker said:

Aug 7, 2019 0:24:31 GMT 1 ritchie said:

Define sustain? sustain really should show a level of ambition equal to our revenue/level.
Hoyle spent more not only in actual fees, but also relative to imcome/expedeture in level in the season we went up - was he putting the club in danger? Or was it that he sensed the opportunity?

How is selling our best rb for 5m and replacing him for a cheap unknown sustaining the club? unless you are suggesting we needed that money to pay wages? Apparently we didnt want to sell him

It's got to be relative we could spread the money over 10 years but the club would likely be dropping down

Keeping our main assets whilst not paying ridiculous transfer fees is showing sustainability.
Your second paragraph is just politely presumptuous. I didn’t rate Smith very much and I aren’t suggesting where the money is going and the full back is an unknown quantity. It may work out to the best bit of business we have done for a while, or he might just be crap, time will tell. 
If, after the January transfer window, we are not in the position hoped (in my opinion top 10) and have not strengthened the squad using some real money, then I will be disappointed. To moan now that we are not spending (tell me who is available, who would come to Huddersfield and who would strengthen our team) is just silly and short sighted. 

I dont think any of us thought he was a world beater but the fact of the matter is we're now significantly weaker in that area because we're being forced to play another one of our ill judged signings who's worth nowhere near the fee or wages we're paying him. So Smith was a good full back and great character at this level, not great, but we now have one who is much worse and we're apparently trying to play 4-3-3 where quality fullbacks with the right attributes are absolutely essential. To make matters worse our cover is an unproven punt from the German 4th division and a young kid.

I'd love it if Bockhorn was a massive success, I'd also be amazed that you could simply pluck a player of his age from that level and he immediately becomes a good championship full back. Seems highly unlikely but what do I know.

I wouldn't mid seeing Bacuna there again but that would mean another CM was required. 

[joeyjoneslocker]

Aug 7, 2019 10:10:36 GMT 1 royrace said:

Aug 7, 2019 7:37:11 GMT 1 joeyjoneslocker said:

Keeping our main assets whilst not paying ridiculous transfer fees is showing sustainability.
Your second paragraph is just politely presumptuous. I didn’t rate Smith very much and I aren’t suggesting where the money is going and the full back is an unknown quantity. It may work out to the best bit of business we have done for a while, or he might just be crap, time will tell. 
If, after the January transfer window, we are not in the position hoped (in my opinion top 10) and have not strengthened the squad using some real money, then I will be disappointed. To moan now that we are not spending (tell me who is available, who would come to Huddersfield and who would strengthen our team) is just silly and short sighted. 

I dont think any of us thought he was a world beater but the fact of the matter is we're now significantly weaker in that area because we're being forced to play another one of our ill judged signings who's worth nowhere near the fee or wages we're paying him. So Smith was a good full back and great character at this level, not great, but we now have one who is much worse and we're apparently trying to play 4-3-3 where quality fullbacks with the right attributes are absolutely essential. To make matters worse our cover is an unproven punt from the German 4th division and a young kid.

I'd love it if Bockhorn was a massive success, I'd also be amazed that you could simply pluck a player of his age from that level and he immediately becomes a good championship full back. Seems highly unlikely but what do I know.

I wouldn't mid seeing Bacuna there again but that would mean another CM was required. 

All fair points. I actually don’t mind Flo, his pathetic diving and rolling about infuriates me but, in a minority of one, I think he is ok. 
I prefer Bacuna in the middle, he will be solid for us this season.

[Deleted]

I was hoping that Jan having a whole closed season to mold the team into his way of playing might help. Problem is I don’t think anyone knows what it is including Jan.