Guthlac
Iain Dunn Terrier
[M0:1]
Posts: 523
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Post by Guthlac on Aug 7, 2019 14:17:23 GMT 1
Having been promoted and relegated from the Premier League - has it done more harm than good?
I personally think there is absoultely no point being in the PL if you can't compete with teams other than the top 6.
To be in the PL and lose week in/week out is pratically and literally pointless. This erodes team and manager confidence and the losing mentality can firmly establish itself into the psyche of the team.
Where was the financial boost and enhanced media exposure - the money seems to have disappeared as rapidly as it appeared, swallowed up by greedy agents and extortionate salaries and bonusues. The media
couldn't give two farts about Town as they still yammered on endlessly about the top 6 (yes there was the odd thoughtful article and some mutterings on MOTD about some club in Yorkshire), but overall
the impact seemed muted.
As for the eagerly awaited away fixtures at the supposed top 6 - well there was more noise and excitement at a church hall paint drying competition.
Are we any better off having been in the Prem? Has it ruined us as a club going forward into this Championship campaign? I feel sorry for Siewart I really think he hasn't been allowed to have a clear shot at
managing this club with a clean slate (it's largely circumstantial) - he's still managing with the emotional baggage of last season - and the pressure he is under now must be immense. I wish him the best and I hope the players can respond in time both for his sake and ours, the fans.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 7, 2019 14:21:57 GMT 1
When you talk about money disappearing you are aware of our wage bill compared to our promotion season yeah ?
I loved the premier league although it got wearing in the end ...and we are 100 times better placed to go back there than we have been for years.. 2016 17 was a minor miracle.. how unfortunate that so many fans turned on the miracle worker at the turn of the year . What we wouldn't give to have him back now
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Aug 7, 2019 14:31:16 GMT 1
When you talk about money disappearing you are aware of our wage bill compared to our promotion season yeah ? I loved the premier league although it got wearing in the end ...and we are 100 times better placed to go back there than we have been for years.. 2016 17 was a minor miracle.. how unfortunate that so many fans turned on the miracle worker at the turn of the year . What we wouldn't give to have him back now he wanted out. it took Deano to stop him whoring himself to other clubs. What we need now is someone with a definite plan and who can rally both the players and the fans behind him. |
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Aug 7, 2019 14:33:12 GMT 1
Serious question. I wonder how many fans would not want promotion this year?
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 7, 2019 14:35:32 GMT 1
When you talk about money disappearing you are aware of our wage bill compared to our promotion season yeah ? I loved the premier league although it got wearing in the end ...and we are 100 times better placed to go back there than we have been for years.. 2016 17 was a minor miracle.. how unfortunate that so many fans turned on the miracle worker at the turn of the year . What we wouldn't give to have him back now I don't think it would be any different if he were still here mate, his magic wand had run out of magic in the end. It was a wonderful unexpected moment in time but I honestly don't think it would have made one iota of difference in Wagner were still here. We'd have still made the same cheap skate signings and played the same old way carrying no goal threat at all. |
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Post by artysid on Aug 7, 2019 14:36:39 GMT 1
Serious question. I wonder how many fans would not want promotion this year? That's the problem with football, if it's in your blood it's difficult to pull yourself away. How many of us believe it's a nasty, greedy, corrupt Industry from top to bottom, yet still support it with our cash? |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 7, 2019 14:37:24 GMT 1
Serious question. I wonder how many fans would not want promotion this year? Not me, that should be the aim an instant return, no matter what division you are related from you should be looking to reattain that higher status. I know it's not our natural home, not in the last 50 years anyway but that's where you want to be. |
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 3,342
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Post by wigster on Aug 7, 2019 15:06:49 GMT 1
When you talk about money disappearing you are aware of our wage bill compared to our promotion season yeah ? I loved the premier league although it got wearing in the end ...and we are 100 times better placed to go back there than we have been for years.. 2016 17 was a minor miracle.. how unfortunate that so many fans turned on the miracle worker at the turn of the year . What we wouldn't give to have him back now Chips - everything I've read and heard suggests that the reason Wagner left this club was nothing whatsoever with fans "turning on" him. Listen to the Dean Hoyle podcast as to why he was keen to leave - NOTHING to do with the supporters. I personally would NOT want him back if we are talking of the David Wagner from before the start of last season - signed wingers/changed his mind, negative sterile football, lost his fight etc - even the new Chairman pinpointed the Spurs match when everything started going wrong with his approach. David Wagner was a god for taking us up/keeping us up for a year but, for me, his reputation, and my opinion of him, was massively tarnished by his actions and team performances last season. |
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Post by sabailand on Aug 7, 2019 15:08:53 GMT 1
I`d happyly be a premeiership struggler for many years doing just enough to stay up, struggler in the prem or mediocrity in the championship....no contest.
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bacuna
Chris Hay Terrier
Posts: 85
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Post by bacuna on Aug 7, 2019 15:25:17 GMT 1
Has it already caused more harm than good? No, not even close.
Might it cause more harm than good over the next year or two if the club isn't very careful? Definitely.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 7, 2019 15:31:39 GMT 1
When you talk about money disappearing you are aware of our wage bill compared to our promotion season yeah ? I loved the premier league although it got wearing in the end ...and we are 100 times better placed to go back there than we have been for years.. 2016 17 was a minor miracle.. how unfortunate that so many fans turned on the miracle worker at the turn of the year . What we wouldn't give to have him back now Chips - everything I've read and heard suggests that the reason Wagner left this club was nothing whatsoever with fans "turning on" him. Listen to the Dean Hoyle podcast as to why he was keen to leave - NOTHING to do with the supporters. I personally would NOT want him back if we are talking of the David Wagner from before the start of last season - signed wingers/changed his mind, negative sterile football, lost his fight etc - even the new Chairman pinpointed the Spurs match when everything started going wrong with his approach. David Wagner was a god for taking us up/keeping us up for a year but, for me, his reputation, and my opinion of him, was massively tarnished by his actions and team performances last season. I never said the fans were the season for him leaving. Although it wouldn't surprise me if their discontentment wasn't a contributory factor. But that's speculation . Either way I so wish he had stayed for another promotion tilt because he's tried , tested and wildly overachieving. Compare that with a guy who might be the new Pep or might be the new Wadsworth |
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Post by oldrain on Aug 7, 2019 15:44:44 GMT 1
The Premier League would be ok if it was a level fair playing field and not just money wise we saw week in week out challenges from defenders that were fouls ignored because refs don’t referee the game they referee the teams it who you are that counts in Prem and it maybe the same this season Monday saw their defenders challenge from behind (Keogh on Grant) no free kick try the same challenge on Lawrence whistle goes
People will say you can’t blame referees for where we are but we had more than our fair share of poor decisions last season just hope we get a fair crack of the whip this season UTT
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Post by royrace on Aug 7, 2019 16:18:22 GMT 1
The PL was literally a dream come true for me, I'm not sure it will ever get any better than the day we beat Man U at home!
The club is probably in a better place now financially and infrastructure wise than it has been in most of our life times.
The problem is some of the decision making over the last year to eighteen months or so has risked chucking all of that away. Awful recruitment, the DoF shambles and a bizarre managerial appointment means we're in danger of pissing it all up against a wall and returning to our place as championship relegation fodder or worse within 3 years.
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duncfost01
David Wagner Terrier
[M0:1]
Posts: 2,830
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Post by duncfost01 on Aug 7, 2019 17:02:21 GMT 1
Personally I would just love to see us win a bloody game again.
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Post by CaptainHart on Aug 7, 2019 17:14:04 GMT 1
The PL was literally a dream come true for me, I'm not sure it will ever get any better than the day we beat Man U at home! The club is probably in a better place now financially and infrastructure wise than it has been in most of our life times. The problem is some of the decision making over the last year to eighteen months or so has risked chucking all of that away. Awful recruitment, the DoF shambles and a bizarre managerial appointment means we're in danger of pissing it all up against a wall and returning to our place as championship relegation fodder or worse within 3 years. I agree with all that apart from the wasting the money. At the moment we haven't backed Jan with anything much. |
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Aug 7, 2019 17:19:29 GMT 1
The 2016-2017 season was euphoric and unrivalled to any other I've bared witness to.
It was so exciting and enjoyable, from the very first fixture to the last kick of the season.
Expectation levels though were low and we'd had 4 seasons of struggling at championship level.
This is the prize that promotion brought.
Memories of that year. It was all so unexpected and the nature of so many memorable wins along the way.
First season in the premier league was memorable too for the right reasons and great to experience it but after last season I'm glad to be back in the Championship.
We were miles off the pace and it was soul destroying losing every week.
Leaving Wembley thought that the Club would be sorted for the next 10 years or so, financially stable and secure at Championship level.
Didn't expect us to be in the premier league for a long time, didn't think we'd have an extended stay like Wigan, Stoke, Swansea all managed.
My fear is that some supporters maybe abit short sighted, I'm not an expert with regards Town's finances or finance in general but the way that £20 million we've got for Smith and Billing is burning a hole in some fans pockets does have me abit confused.
Personally don't think we should spend it panicking around tomorrow on deadline day. Too much of a gamble on a quick return back to the Premier league for me.
Stoke spent big last season and failed.
Rather, carefully reinvested over the next 3-4 seasons to keep us competitive championship.
If the premier league legacy is a new training ground, better stadium, not fighting off a championship relegation every season then I'd be okay with that.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2019 17:19:41 GMT 1
I know last season turned sour, but c'mon.
Sure, there are elements of the legacy that you could question. Most of the stadium improvements don't affect those of us who don't go in the upgraded press room, sit in the plush new dugout seats or take advantage of the super-fast fibre optic cables for the benefit of Sky. We're left with electronic advertising hoardings, which might be modern but they're an eyesore. I still find the idea that at a time that demand for tickets at the JSS was never higher, we actually had to reduce capacity for a bigger gantry slightly preposterous.
But.... If someone asks me who I support, I don't get blank looks any more. I don't have to describe Huddersfield as "near Leeds". I've seen more national press coverage in the last two years than I have in the rest of my life combined.
The club's financially secure. Upgraded training facilities (hopefully). As grim as Monday was, this is the strongest squad we've had for decades. We're being talked about as play-off contenders, not relegation battlers. We've got the highest profile shirt sponsor since Panasonic - no chance we've have got that without our stint in the Prem - which has left us with the best shirt in ages.
We've moved on from 10,000-strong crowds sitting in silence. We've got a new generation of young fans. We're all over social media.
First to admit we've attracted some absolute whoppers as new fans, mind.
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Post by htfcsince70 on Aug 7, 2019 17:53:21 GMT 1
A mate of mine who is season ticket holder at Middlesborough text me after the Boro Luton game to ask - dare he suggest that the Championship is the best league in the world?! My reply alluded to the fact that I agreed and yet we all aim for the PL - his next message was a "no thank you" - he and those who sit round him at the Riverside are desperate for Boro to do well and yet not desperate for the ultimate prize of promotion. Back to our game against Derby - even at 2-0 down and not playing well I believed that we were still in the game and that we might actually go on and win it or at least get a point! Last season at 1-0 down I may as well have gone home - I knew that we were certain to lose, I just hoped that we didn't lose by 4,5 or 6!
On a similar vein I was sad enough to watch Mondays game back again last night and I was surprised that although we weren't great we weren't that bad. If Elphick heads it instead of thinking he is Ronaldo, Diakahby gets his head up to see Pritchard and Kachunga doesn't snatch at the chance - all ifs I know - then we might have had a different start to the season. That said - I'm still not convinced that 4-3-3 is the way forward for us - we still look like a 4-5-1 with little or no support for Grant or other bodies in and around the box! Nor am I convinced by the manager and the team around him. still onwards and upwards - hopefully - and a new left back, additional striker or midfield player who can hit the target from distance - or at the very least round pegs in round holes - why 22,000 supporters can see what the manager and recruitment team can't baffles me!
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Post by tvor on Aug 7, 2019 18:24:19 GMT 1
I always thought that any funds from the PL windfall would be used to help secure the longer term future of the club. We’ve already seen the stadium being ‘refreshed’ this season and that followed the updates demanded by the PL. Maybe some of the money has been earmarked for the upgrade of PPG too? And didn’t they buy some fancy piece of kit to improve the state of the pitch last season. Monday night was awful but some of this stuff might just have an impact over the longer term - especially the updated training facilities.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Aug 7, 2019 18:46:12 GMT 1
Nickhudd never dreamed he would watch Town in the Prem.
It was a heffing dream been at Palace in the prem seeing Mounie ( who now seems to have lost it ) score making it 3-0 away !
We competed well in most games that season.
Last season the gulf in quality of players and complete lack of goals finally told.
I didnt really enjoy it at all tbf, found it very depressing and serotonin dropped.
I just cant ever see us doing what happened under king Wagner, the king is dead long live the king !
Everything looked wrong on monday night, it was painful to watch, lets hope Sievert can sort it out ??
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Post by huddersfc on Aug 7, 2019 18:47:04 GMT 1
No, I think last summers transfer situation has caused the most harm to the club. We wasted money on players who we barely played, and there didnt seem to be the same shrewdness and business like deals that we have relied on over the previous years. Whoever scouted and signed the two wingers for over 20 million want naming and shaming, because they were signed to play football, and not to run 100 metres. Then the way the season played out was weird, with Wagner not playing summer recruits, as if in some kind of protest. Then when we were crying out for a manager with championship promotion experience who could come in, assess the squad, pick them back up again ready for this season with some shrewd additions, we go and recruit a bargain basement job, who was going to be the next Wagner, because he came from Dortmund. I have said this many times in posts before we appointed Jan, that giving someone like Wagner a go was correct in the situation we were in a few years ago, where we had stagnated in the championship and we had little to lose from an inexperienced gamble. But once Wagner had left we HAD to go with someone with more experience. Look at the state the team was in at the time, they had zero confidence or belief, they needed someone who had been there before, to inspire and push them on again. Karanka, Jokanavic both came to mind, but there were plenty of other options too. But I guess its ok, Jan will soon come good because we watched him for ages and no-one has the bottle to admit he is so far out of his depth. 1 win in 16 games, and not the slightest hint of improvement, wow.
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Post by The-Crab on Aug 8, 2019 0:07:17 GMT 1
When you talk about money disappearing you are aware of our wage bill compared to our promotion season yeah ? I loved the premier league although it got wearing in the end ...and we are 100 times better placed to go back there than we have been for years.. 2016 17 was a minor miracle.. how unfortunate that so many fans turned on the miracle worker at the turn of the year . What we wouldn't give to have him back now
I personally would NOT want him back if we are talking of the David Wagner from before the start of last season - signed wingers/changed his mind, negative sterile football, lost his fight etc - even the new Chairman pinpointed the Spurs match when everything started going wrong with his approach.David Wagner was a god for taking us up/keeping us up for a year but, for me, his reputation, and my opinion of him, was massively tarnished by his actions and team performances last season. This, he had turned away from everything that made us successful, the team spirit, pressing and no limits were long gone. I personally think the pressure got to him Lee Clark style and he ran out of ideas and enthusiasm. Fans were no longer enjoying us spending 90 minutes trying not to concede with no forward intent, players looked like they were no longer enjoying themselves (who can blame them), we were going backwards very quickly and I feel he didn't want a relegation on his C.V and took the easy way out and resigned. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 0:33:14 GMT 1
Serious question. I wonder how many fans would not want promotion this year? Serious answer, me. If by some fluke we’re up there, I’ll definitely be waiting till last possible moment to renew season ticket and if it’s likely we’re going up, I’ll not be renewing. Found the whole experience utterly tedious and fake...ended up going to fewer away games last season than any season since 1987. Same with my lad, been going since age 3, seen us relegated to the bottom division, and he gave up even home games by October last season. Apparently there’s a big queue of fans knocking on the door waiting to buy my seat, so I’m sure the club aren’t concerned by this one little bit 🤷♂️ Thankfully, I think it’s highly unlikely we’ll be winning promotion. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2019 0:36:35 GMT 1
A mate of mine who is season ticket holder at Middlesborough text me after the Boro Luton game to ask - dare he suggest that the Championship is the best league in the world?! My reply alluded to the fact that I agreed and yet we all aim for the PL - his next message was a "no thank you" - he and those who sit round him at the Riverside are desperate for Boro to do well and yet not desperate for the ultimate prize of promotion. Back to our game against Derby - even at 2-0 down and not playing well I believed that we were still in the game and that we might actually go on and win it or at least get a point! Last season at 1-0 down I may as well have gone home - I knew that we were certain to lose, I just hoped that we didn't lose by 4,5 or 6! On a similar vein I was sad enough to watch Mondays game back again last night and I was surprised that although we weren't great we weren't that bad. If Elphick heads it instead of thinking he is Ronaldo, Diakahby gets his head up to see Pritchard and Kachunga doesn't snatch at the chance - all ifs I know - then we might have had a different start to the season. That said - I'm still not convinced that 4-3-3 is the way forward for us - we still look like a 4-5-1 with little or no support for Grant or other bodies in and around the box! Nor am I convinced by the manager and the team around him. still onwards and upwards - hopefully - and a new left back, additional striker or midfield player who can hit the target from distance - or at the very least round pegs in round holes - why 22,000 supporters can see what the manager and recruitment team can't baffles me! I had a similar message from a Leeds supporting mate...”mid table for you this season haha”...my response, “I hope so” ! |
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Post by Leporid on Aug 8, 2019 0:38:45 GMT 1
Having been promoted and relegated from the Premier League - has it done more harm than good? I personally think there is absoultely no point being in the PL if you can't compete with teams other than the top 6. To be in the PL and lose week in/week out is pratically and literally pointless. This erodes team and manager confidence and the losing mentality can firmly establish itself into the psyche of the team. Where was the financial boost and enhanced media exposure - the money seems to have disappeared as rapidly as it appeared, swallowed up by greedy agents and extortionate salaries and bonusues. The media couldn't give two farts about Town as they still yammered on endlessly about the top 6 (yes there was the odd thoughtful article and some mutterings on MOTD about some club in Yorkshire), but overall the impact seemed muted. As for the eagerly awaited away fixtures at the supposed top 6 - well there was more noise and excitement at a church hall paint drying competition. Are we any better off having been in the Prem? Has it ruined us as a club going forward into this Championship campaign? I feel sorry for Siewart I really think he hasn't been allowed to have a clear shot at managing this club with a clean slate (it's largely circumstantial) - he's still managing with the emotional baggage of last season - and the pressure he is under now must be immense. I wish him the best and I hope the players can respond in time both for his sake and ours, the fans. Somewhat like the French Revolution, it's a bit early to judge whether it was a good thing or not. |
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Post by rantinray on Aug 8, 2019 14:54:14 GMT 1
My thoughts are: We have had two seasons in the Premiership with Championship players, yet, now we are in the Championship some of thse very same players who helped to get us relegated seem to believe their own hype.
Strange world professional footballers live in.
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Post by lochnessterrier on Aug 8, 2019 17:27:40 GMT 1
Oh shit, bring back league 2 so some of these moaning bastards will be happy.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,601
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Post by goodbet on Aug 8, 2019 19:51:25 GMT 1
How can we tell if being in the Premier League has been any good for Town.
A brief outline not all will agree but take this list as a starting point
The positives
Stadium
Training Facilities
the club infrastructure
The players
Negatives
The owner
The team
The current situation
I don't think that anyone can disagree that we have not moved on as a club, the team has players with a higher transfer rating than we did when we were previously in the Championship. The stadium facilities the training ground are better and we now have shiny new white seats. I am not sure if the training ground will continue to be developed.
I personally am unsure about the owner and the current financial position. We are apparently without funds and the benefits of being in the Premiership have disappeared. From all of the noise coming from the club about the transfers and the quality of the loans seems to me to be a little off or just overhyped. The team is unbalanced and does not have the players required to play the 433 system and without a first choice left back.
We have reduced the squad removed some of the higher paid players but quality of the replacements may be good in the future but don’t appear to be ready to improve the first team squad. We have kept hold of Mooy and I assume that Brighton are paying his wages and a large loan fee and we can get a transfer fee at the end of the season.
In my opinion I will say that the message is somewhat mixed and far from clear. I feel that we have written off this season before it began based on the transfers. I rate us as becoming a mid- Championship club at best based on our transfer activities. My concern is for the current season I fear that the unbalanced squad and tactics may cause us to flirt with the relegation zone and we may yet loose even more players until the European window shuts.
Some people will agree and others will just place their faith in the club and hope for the best but I would like to know how others view our situation.
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