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Post by worthington on Aug 11, 2019 9:24:10 GMT 1
Can't help feeling that Town's current demise is all due to a few weeks after the end of the first season in the premier league. Though the last few weeks of the season were painful, and Wagner largely abandoned Gegenpressing, we survived, and all the players in the squad must have been able to say to themselves 'we are good enough to compete in this league and we have improved as players'. Then we should have splashed out on two experienced premier league midfield players who were better than anyone in our squad: players need to be shown how to play better by their teammates, not just told by coaches who have never played the game to the highest level. So people like Billing and Danny Williams and VLP would have continued their football education, and we could have started the season with the same lively ambition with which we began the first.
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Post by tockyterrier on Aug 11, 2019 10:14:08 GMT 1
I think in many ways you are correct. We needed proven experience / capability at premier league level. BUT...how many would ofthe type of player we needed would come and accept a pay cut if we got relegated? We have basically recruited mid to top end championship players to try and stay up and give us a better chance of competing now we havegone down.
Remember QPR spending £2m on A GK?
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k1man999
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Post by k1man999 on Aug 11, 2019 10:22:51 GMT 1
Agree totally re experienced prem players
We needed to invest in a sprinkle of quality to add to the grit and spirit we had, 2 or 3 either loan or purchase
The money wasted was criminal.
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Post by detox on Aug 11, 2019 10:30:07 GMT 1
have you only just had this eureka moment....?
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Post by arroloui on Aug 11, 2019 14:10:32 GMT 1
Iv said many times we should have signed Bradley Dack and that lad from brentford who's banging them in for Brighton..
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johns
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Post by johns on Aug 11, 2019 14:40:35 GMT 1
Iv said many times we should have signed Bradley Dack and that lad from brentford who's banging them in for Brighton.. That involves spending Money!! Something we clearly aren't going to do. |
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 11, 2019 14:41:56 GMT 1
Iv said many times we should have signed Bradley Dack and that lad from brentford who's banging them in for Brighton.. To be fair Brighton paid Brentford 20 million for him plus was he going to come here over Brighton? No, almost certainly not. We probably missed the boat over him a few windows ago. |
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Post by willo on Aug 11, 2019 14:54:35 GMT 1
Iv said many times we should have signed Bradley Dack and that lad from brentford who's banging them in for Brighton.. Both great shouts but we should have been in for both at least 12 months ago. |
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Post by stevvy on Aug 11, 2019 15:18:54 GMT 1
All well and good saying we should have signed this player or that player, but unless a club accepts a bid and a player agrees terms, then it's pointless and irrelevant saying we should have signed this player or that player.
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Post by explorer on Aug 11, 2019 15:24:37 GMT 1
All well and good saying we should have signed this player or that player, but unless a club accepts a bid and a player agrees terms, then it's pointless and irrelevant saying we should have signed this player or that player. And if we had been serious about signing Dack and Maupay the cry would have gone up...”FFS, we should be signing someone with PL experience, not taking a punt on unproven mid-table Championship and League One players.” |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 12, 2019 7:35:46 GMT 1
I think in many ways you are correct. We needed proven experience / capability at premier league level. BUT...how many would ofthe type of player we needed would come and accept a pay cut if we got relegated? We have basically recruited mid to top end championship players to try and stay up and give us a better chance of competing now we havegone down. Remember QPR spending £2m on A GK? And therein lies the rub. We were always going to get relegated at some stage or other. It's not that many years since Stoke & WBA were deemed to be established PL clubs; we'd have dropped eventually. And then we'd have been stuck with PL wages on championship income. More than that, we'd have to pay a bit more to somebody to entice them to play for a club that was always going to be one of the favourites for the drop. The idea behind bringing in the likes of Bacuna, Diakhaby & Mbenza - i.e. bringing in players that we felt had the potential to become stars - was a pretty sound one. It's just a shame that they've been of very variable levels of success. Brighton didn't spend big on big stars. They just bought better than we did. How much of that is better scouting & how much is better luck I don't know. |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Aug 12, 2019 7:53:35 GMT 1
We have gone backwards so much since first season in the prem
Very very worrying.
We are totally unrecognised now.
M
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Aug 12, 2019 8:10:14 GMT 1
Do you think we'll ever stop droning on about the past, what went wrong, how we should have leveraged the club up to the eyeballs etc.
I'm beginning to think the moaning was much better in L1.
People are beginning to sound like second rate pundits. Spend £100m on a couple of players and we'll cement our place in the PL. Lineker, Wright, Shearer et al, continually drop this sort of comment in, "they've not spent enough" etc.
Plenty have tried & failed, yet we have our own fans just wanting to follow that less than successful playbook.
Call me condescending or whatever you want, but every thread is becoming the same tiresome theme just dished up with 27 different garnishes.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Aug 12, 2019 8:19:30 GMT 1
Wé should have sold Mooy, Schindler, Kongolo and Billing for a combined fee of more than 50 million in this window.
Unfortunately the fact that other clubs failed to assist us in this appears to be ignored by some.
In between all the rumour and media led speculation I am sure we have 'been' in over the past couple of seasons for lots of players of various types,that just never happened for many reasons.
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Post by Convictatthemac on Aug 12, 2019 8:20:13 GMT 1
I think in many ways you are correct. We needed proven experience / capability at premier league level. BUT...how many would ofthe type of player we needed would come and accept a pay cut if we got relegated? We have basically recruited mid to top end championship players to try and stay up and give us a better chance of competing now we havegone down. Remember QPR spending £2m on A GK? And therein lies the rub. We were always going to get relegated at some stage or other. It's not that many years since Stoke & WBA were deemed to be established PL clubs; we'd have dropped eventually. And then we'd have been stuck with PL wages on championship income. More than that, we'd have to pay a bit more to somebody to entice them to play for a club that was always going to be one of the favourites for the drop. The idea behind bringing in the likes of Bacuna, Diakhaby & Mbenza - i.e. bringing in players that we felt had the potential to become stars - was a pretty sound one. It's just a shame that they've been of very variable levels of success. Brighton didn't spend big on big stars. They just bought better than we did. How much of that is better scouting & how much is better luck I don't know. Brighton have spent big over the last 3 years. Net spend in their first 2 years in the PL was €142m (apologies for it being Euros, as these figures are from transfermarkt) versus our spending of €90m. They’ve spent 50% more and this year have spent another €67m. They are buying quality players from European leagues. Yes there scouting is good but they have backed themselves with money too. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 8:24:26 GMT 1
The biggest disappointment to me is that quality players were on our doorstep yet we thought we were investing in potential from abroad.
Brooks at Sheffield Utd would have been no bigger risk than Mbenza and Diakhaby, he moved for a similar fee and had a far better season at Bournemouth than any of our wingers.
Dack and Maupay were surely just as worth a punt as the youngsters we brought in.
It was all so confused and we clearly tried to be too clever in thinking we could sign a raft of players under 22, they’d keep us in the PL and we could make a profit on them long term.
What is done, is done but hopefully a lesson has been learned and we get back to a more basic approach of buying players to improve the 1st team who can hit the ground running rather than spending millions on players we then don’t think are ready.
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Post by themanfromatlantis on Aug 12, 2019 8:34:14 GMT 1
The biggest disappointment to me is that quality players were on our doorstep yet we thought we were investing in potential from abroad. Brooks at Sheffield Utd would have been no bigger risk than Mbenza and Diakhaby, he moved for a similar fee and had a far better season at Bournemouth than any of our wingers. Dack and Maupay were surely just as worth a punt as the youngsters we brought in. It was all so confused and we clearly tried to be too clever in thinking we could sign a raft of players under 22, they’d keep us in the PL and we could make a profit on them long term. What is done, is done but hopefully a lesson has been learned and we get back to a more basic approach of buying players to improve the 1st team who can hit the ground running rather than spending millions on players we then don’t think are ready. I've mentioned Brooks before. What package do you think he was offered at B'mouth? Reckon we could have competed with that. All guesswork but don't think we'd have come close to the terms he's on down there. It's always easy throwing other folks money about like monopoly... Edit to say that I'm not having a pop. I thought Brooks would have been fantastic but when it was revealed he'd gone there it looked obvious that it would have been the terms that swayed the decision. Not sure how it all works TBH, do agents tell clubs what their player wants, with clubs knowing they'll not have much negotiation below that figure? So if we were in for Brooks and his terms were daft, we could have just declined at an early stage, knowing that negotiation was pointless. I've nothing against our club trying to be sensible, means we'll probably have good quality football for many yrs to come, as opposed to a fleeting glimpse and then back down below the Championship. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Aug 12, 2019 8:38:53 GMT 1
And therein lies the rub. We were always going to get relegated at some stage or other. It's not that many years since Stoke & WBA were deemed to be established PL clubs; we'd have dropped eventually. And then we'd have been stuck with PL wages on championship income. More than that, we'd have to pay a bit more to somebody to entice them to play for a club that was always going to be one of the favourites for the drop. The idea behind bringing in the likes of Bacuna, Diakhaby & Mbenza - i.e. bringing in players that we felt had the potential to become stars - was a pretty sound one. It's just a shame that they've been of very variable levels of success. Brighton didn't spend big on big stars. They just bought better than we did. How much of that is better scouting & how much is better luck I don't know. Brighton have spent big over the last 3 years. Net spend in their first 2 years in the PL was €142m (apologies for it being Euros, as these figures are from transfermarkt) versus our spending of €90m. They’ve spent 50% more and this year have spent another €67m. They are buying quality players from European leagues. Yes there scouting is good but they have backed themselves with money too. They also already had what our Canalside is yet to be. Ie another £25m to spend than we did. |
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Post by Convictatthemac on Aug 12, 2019 8:46:27 GMT 1
Brighton have spent big over the last 3 years. Net spend in their first 2 years in the PL was €142m (apologies for it being Euros, as these figures are from transfermarkt) versus our spending of €90m. They’ve spent 50% more and this year have spent another €67m. They are buying quality players from European leagues. Yes there scouting is good but they have backed themselves with money too. They also already had what our Canalside is yet to be. Ie another £25m to spend than we did. Very pertinent. Having the facilities in place is a huge advantage. Hopefully we get that sorted now which gives us a chance if we get another crack at the PL in the next few years. I would also like to add, that while Brighton spent more money, they still had “failures” from their recruiting. |
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Post by specialun on Aug 12, 2019 8:58:50 GMT 1
Position we are in now goes back to losing Stuart Webber
Football decisions since then have been awful
Big gaps without DOF
DOF lasting 6 months
We’ve had more time since Webber left without a DOF than with one
No clear recruitment policy / Strategy
Wagner’s brilliance scraped us over the line twice but papered over the bigger problem
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Post by runner76 on Aug 12, 2019 9:06:17 GMT 1
Position we are in now goes back to losing Stuart Webber Football decisions since then have been awful Big gaps without DOF DOF lasting 6 months We’ve had more time since Webber left without a DOF than with one No clear recruitment policy / Strategy Wagner’s brilliance scraped us over the line twice but papered over the bigger problem Exactly this. And with Wagner and JS both being more modern ‘coaches’ than traditional ‘managers’ the lack of decent football ops guys has left us massively exposed. What we really need now is strong man management ..... worried we don’t have it!! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 9:16:02 GMT 1
Bizarre post. Our 3 best players were the midfield 3. What we needed since Wagner arrived was a wide player defensively minded or not, that could deliver quality. We seemed to develop this obsession with buying rapid players instead of ones who were good in possession. We needed a snodgrass, a brunt a gudmunson or a Brady. One guy who could make our neat play worth something with a yelling final ball. We never signed him despite several windows. We signed Prichard- not what we needed, Hadergonaj- wouldn’t matter how many times we were able to put him in space he hasn’t got the ability or awareness to find a teammate. Then diakbenza- as preposterously awful a pair of signings as in any premier league history I’d imagine, as is Moonie.
The people who chose these players are the culprits for Town’s demise. They needed to be at least 3/4 good signings and all 4 were and remain woeful.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 9:18:51 GMT 1
Position we are in now goes back to losing Stuart Webber Football decisions since then have been awful Big gaps without DOF DOF lasting 6 months We’ve had more time since Webber left without a DOF than with one No clear recruitment policy / Strategy Wagner’s brilliance scraped us over the line twice but papered over the bigger problem Depressing looking at Norwich’s recruitment since he went there. Clearly a very capable guy indeed. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 9:26:53 GMT 1
Position we are in now goes back to losing Stuart Webber Football decisions since then have been awful Big gaps without DOF DOF lasting 6 months We’ve had more time since Webber left without a DOF than with one No clear recruitment policy / Strategy Wagner’s brilliance scraped us over the line twice but papered over the bigger problem Depressing looking at Norwich’s recruitment since he went there. Clearly a very capable guy indeed. A bit odd that they only spent £1m this summer having got promoted. |
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Post by teddytheterrier on Aug 12, 2019 9:28:37 GMT 1
Webber did an excellent job at town.
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Post by tockyterrier on Aug 12, 2019 9:48:31 GMT 1
Position we are in now goes back to losing Stuart Webber Football decisions since then have been awful Big gaps without DOF DOF lasting 6 months We’ve had more time since Webber left without a DOF than with one No clear recruitment policy / Strategy Wagner’s brilliance scraped us over the line twice but papered over the bigger problem Depressing looking at Norwich’s recruitment since he went there. Clearly a very capable guy indeed. Imagine the wailing on here if we'd done that. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 10:48:21 GMT 1
Depressing looking at Norwich’s recruitment since he went there. Clearly a very capable guy indeed. A bit odd that they only spent £1m this summer having got promoted. I think they’re staying loyal previous summer signings who got them there. They may look to go up save the cash and come back stronger which is another good strategy for clubs without billionaire owners. We should’ve done that. Not bought Moonie, LDP who were both on big wages and both terrible- not better than someone we could’ve got from league one for a tenth of the money. Same for the other signings. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 11:02:29 GMT 1
A bit odd that they only spent £1m this summer having got promoted. I think they’re staying loyal previous summer signings who got them there. They may look to go up save the cash and come back stronger which is another good strategy for clubs without billionaire owners. We should’ve done that. Not bought Moonie, LDP who were both on big wages and both terrible- not better than someone we could’ve got from league one for a tenth of the money. Same for the other signings. The difference is Norwich have the advantage of Farke having time to build his squad for promotion, we went up too early in Wagners reign and money had to be spent. |
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k1man999
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Post by k1man999 on Aug 12, 2019 11:17:42 GMT 1
Bizarre post. Our 3 best players were the midfield 3. What we needed since Wagner arrived was a wide player defensively minded or not, that could deliver quality. We seemed to develop this obsession with buying rapid players instead of ones who were good in possession. We needed a snodgrass, a brunt a gudmunson or a Brady. One guy who could make our neat play worth something with a yelling final ball. We never signed him despite several windows. We signed Prichard- not what we needed, Hadergonaj- wouldn’t matter how many times we were able to put him in space he hasn’t got the ability or awareness to find a teammate. Then diakbenza- as preposterously awful a pair of signings as in any premier league history I’d imagine, as is Moonie. The people who chose these players are the culprits for Town’s demise. They needed to be at least 3/4 good signings and all 4 were and remain woeful. And most of the select Committee are still here making these decisions. |
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Aug 12, 2019 12:15:05 GMT 1
The cost of purchasing " SOME OF THE CRAP " i witnessed last season in the premier league must rank as some of the the worst top flight signings and biggest waste of money ever seen in premier league history with Mounie leading the way
Sadly much of this same retained crap has spilled over into the championship , and would certainly like to ask the person who recommended these players to the club what they saw to make him/her think they could make in last seasons top flight of British football
These retained ongoing flops like Mbenza and flo will end up costing Siewert his job , and anybody thinking that this retained crap can get us into the top six especially with such a vulnerable defence seriously needs to think again.
The only bright light for me from last season is Grant who seems to be a absolute bargain compared to the flops
The other question is where has all that premier league money gone especially which includes the widely reported £200 million for just winning the play offs.
Add on to that two seasons of vast amounts of money which includes tv money, sponsorship money ,full house gate money and this seasons transfer money for Billing and Smith etc etc, plus part parachute payments .
Surely the club didnt break the bank with club signings.over the last two seasons
It was also mentioned that Dean Hoyle is still owed £50 million by the club which surely is classed as a club debt and seems to be holdind the club back especially when looking at this seasons cheap and cheerfull signings
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