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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Aug 17, 2019 10:29:02 GMT 1
Keeper likes his punches
Without Grant we would be absolutely fucked
They must not do any attacking work in training
Zero tactics
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yappledapple
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,917 
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Post by yappledapple on Aug 17, 2019 10:30:35 GMT 1
Bang on - zero threat and cutting edge. Unbelievable header by Grant tonight for the goal. 21mm over the line...and our only goal from open play in 4 matches, including 3 games at home. Jan wasn’t the right man for the job - young guy who I am sure tried his best, but not the man for the job. I know we talk about maintaining a philosophy of play, but for me it now needs a shake up. I’d bring in Hughton - steady the ship, have respect from players and has a history of playing 2 up front in this league. If I was the new manager, play 2 CMs instead of 3 as although I prefer 3 given the personnel and all so similar, 2 holding mids is sufficient. Play two attacking wide men and two strikers (or one up and one just off ala Pritchard for harder matches). Elphick is woeful - not just the mistakes, he makes others nervous and Schindler constantly covering him. Not a better CB pairing in league than Schindler & Kongolo and natural left and right cbs, so has to be. Stankovic a very able stand in too...what message does it send out to guys like him Elphick coming in and playing ahead of him. I know some people dislike Flo so will never see it, but he was very good last night and will be just fine in this league. With Schindler inside him instead of Elphick, he will be much better too. People blaming him for second goal last night...he was stuck between two players...not his fault...the right sided CB or a CM should have come across and covered the inside space to stop the shot. Basics of football which again speaks volumes of Jan’s deficiencies. Grabara been a positive, 3 good CBs and a good young CB in waiting, Flo decent enough, 2 from 4 decent CMs depending on form, loads of wingers, again two of those on form and then 4 strikers which are decent at this level, and with good service will score goals. Grant and Mounie with good service could be very good. Left Back the big problem - if I was new manager I’d demand to sign a free agent LB whatever it takes. Squad has some quality - needs organised, lifted, clear direction and playing style and a manager who has enough clout to have difficult conversations with the board. Hughton fits the bill. Fingers crossed for the right appointment. UTT Makes saves, so I guess that we can't complain, but his distribution is utter bab. At PH’s Q&A when Grabara was announced as the incoming Terrier, he stated how good Grabara’s kicking was and that he could hit it miles. Have to say, his shot stopping and reactions are awesome but his kicking is not as good as I was led to believe at that Q&A. Three games now, plus the pre-season friendlies, I have noted that there is no power or pace in his kicks. He doesn’t kick it with drive, but with high loopy kicks that allow the opposition time to attack the ball. I get get he’s young and learning his trade but this is one area he needs to develop. |
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Post by pauldaltonsboots on Aug 17, 2019 10:44:00 GMT 1
Yeah hopefully we see improvement on kicking from Grabara - given Liverpool rate him and their style of football where a keeper with good feet is a necessity, hopefully he is better with his feet than shown so far.
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Post by dugnet on Aug 17, 2019 10:44:39 GMT 1
Thought we started off ok. First 20 minutes or so we looked the better side. But pretty steady decline after that as Fulham got their act together. We improved again just by taking Bacuna off as hed become a complete liability by that stage. Every once in a while you see a player who literally cannot do a single thing right. Can't control it, pass it, tackle.. anything. And of course he capped a horrendous display with that inch perfect cross onto the Fulham strikers head! Glad JSs gone. Best thing for us and him. We don;t actually have a bad squad. Weve got plenty of crap but the bulk of the squad is actually pretty good at Championship level... or should be, and there were no signs whatsoever that JS was going to get a song out of them. It was a crazy gamble that didn;t pay off at all. At least its so early. Get the right man in and theres no reason why this group of players can't have a successful season. A very accurate review, sadly we lack a bit of quality in key areas but we have more than enough to stabilise and build from here. The fans have been excellent, but some voted with their feet last night. It's going to take some work to get us stable and moving in the right direction. |
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Post by Armchair Pundit on Aug 17, 2019 10:47:14 GMT 1
Ok I stand corrected, but TV evidence is enough to confirm that Mitrovic deliberately tried to get an opponent sent off and he should get a 3 match ban for that. At least hed been caught in the face so had something to make a meal of. While that was going on, Chalabah was rolling about pretending to be hurt after losing the ball and leaving his team mates to defend the resulting attack. Id like to think the likes of Hogg, Hudson, Whitehead had a not so quiet word in his ear afterwards! I watched on TV. Mitrovich wasn’t caught anywhere. If you watch the replay it’s embarrassing. Clear cheating. And because no action taken I fully expect him to get a retrospective one match ban. As for Chalobah again tv replays show that it was Mitrovich who challenged him and caught him in the face with an elbow. It didn’t look natural from Mitrovich and if ref had seen it, you wouldn’t have blamed him for sending Mitrovich off. |
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Post by artysid on Aug 17, 2019 10:55:32 GMT 1
The vitriolic and personal abuse directed at the Manager and Chairman over the last few weeks on social media by some posters has been disgusting and unacceptable, though I fear a reflection of the times - lowering moral standards across Society, and a badly educated underclass.
Last nights game was one of the most disappointing I have attended for some time. Something was clearly wrong and Jan was looking like a Man who had to go. There was no cohesion, no pattern and it was men against boys when they stepped up a gear in the second half. He appeared to be the only person not to see things needed to change on 50mins not 85mins.
I reserve my major criticism however for the players, they showed no passion, no determination, and worst of all no pride – these are personal qualities that you should retain no matter what’s going on around you. – The most telling moment for me was a throw in in the Panasonic / Kilner corner about two minutes before half time where it was clear to me not one of them gave a rats arse. They’ve contributed massively in getting the Manager the sack, the responsibility for what happens next is theirs.
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Aug 17, 2019 10:59:00 GMT 1
The vitriolic and personal abuse directed at the Manager and Chairman over the last few weeks on social media by some posters has been disgusting and unacceptable, though I fear a reflection of the times - lowering moral standards across Society, and a badly educated underclass. Last nights game was one of the most disappointing I have attended for some time. Something was clearly wrong and Jan was looking like a Man who had to go. There was no cohesion, no pattern and it was men against boys when they stepped up a gear in the second half. He appeared to be the only person not to see things needed to change on 50mins not 85mins. I reserve my major criticism however for the players, they showed no passion, no determination, and worst of all no pride – these are personal qualities that you should retain no matter what’s going on around you. – The most telling moment for me was a throw in in the Panasonic / Kilner corner about two minutes before half time where it was clear to me not one of them gave a rats arse. They’ve contributed massively in getting the Manager the sack, the responsibility for what happens next is theirs. 100%  |
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Post by Metch on Aug 17, 2019 10:59:54 GMT 1
Yeah hopefully we see improvement on kicking from Grabara - given Liverpool rate him and their style of football where a keeper with good feet is a necessity, hopefully he is better with his feet than shown so far. At times you could see that Grabara was viaibly frustrated he had no outlet ball. There is only so much a keeper can do if we don't give him any options. Fulham were quicker in thought and pressing. We can reverse this with an attack minded coach. |
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Post by hypotenuse on Aug 17, 2019 11:10:11 GMT 1
I saw us for the first time this season ‘in the flesh’ last night.
I actually feel sorry for Jan even though I’m not his biggest fan. The team tried very hard against a side who have strengthened since relegation and are full of Prem standard players. We have a team of players, most of whom have played in the Prem but are not Prem standard.
I thought we were reasonably sound defensively (though Elphick is a major concern) and the keeper is excellent - I know his kicking needs work but he is a big plus.
However, we simply do not have enough players in midfield and up front who can receive a pass, stay comfortable on the ball, retain possession and keep an attack moving. O’Brien was our best player on the night, Pritchard good first half and Kachunga tried hard and didn’t lose the ball too much. Bacuna has a nightmare and the manager made a big error not subbing him at half-time. Grant is nowhere near as good as many on here think. He did well with the goal but his first touch was woeful and nothing ‘stuck’ up front. He has to do better.
No shortage of commitment or effort but no quality. We are in a really tough relegation battle and I’d take 21st position now if someone offered. The club is in turmoil and I suspect there may be 3 or 4 more departures in the next fortnight.
Any new manager has an enormous job on their hands.
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Post by Porrohman on Aug 17, 2019 11:33:04 GMT 1
The vitriolic and personal abuse directed at the Manager and Chairman over the last few weeks on social media by some posters has been disgusting and unacceptable, though I fear a reflection of the times - lowering moral standards across Society, and a badly educated underclass. Last nights game was one of the most disappointing I have attended for some time. Something was clearly wrong and Jan was looking like a Man who had to go. There was no cohesion, no pattern and it was men against boys when they stepped up a gear in the second half. He appeared to be the only person not to see things needed to change on 50mins not 85mins. I reserve my major criticism however for the players, they showed no passion, no determination, and worst of all no pride – these are personal qualities that you should retain no matter what’s going on around you. – The most telling moment for me was a throw in in the Panasonic / Kilner corner about two minutes before half time where it was clear to me not one of them gave a rats arse. They’ve contributed massively in getting the Manager the sack, the responsibility for what happens next is theirs. That throw in was where, around where I sit, folk said how unfit the players looked. |
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Post by ACW on Aug 17, 2019 12:02:13 GMT 1
Our lack of quality in the final third was glaring last night. In the first half, before Fulham upped their game, Town were pressing them in their own half and regularly winning the ball back. However, the amount of times we failed to take advantage due to poor passing, touch, options, etc was a real concern. The lack of the basics to get at the opposition was actually quite alarming. Are the players genuinely that bad? Or are they poorly coached? Or just lacking confidence? Probably a bit of all three.
Whoever comes in has a massive job to make us even reasonably dangerous in the final third. We look utterly impotent.
That was a problem under Wagner, but at least we could keep possession. Now we look like we did under previous managers - technically inferior and unable to do the basics to keep the ball.
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Post by shgterrier on Aug 17, 2019 13:08:20 GMT 1
Watched a replay today. Based on this and the other games, I think there are two quick wins.
First, formatiom. I think most of the players are championship quality but just don't see them fitting 433. My understanding is that when attacking, this system requires 2 good wingers, 2 box to box midfielders and 2 attacking full backs. Not sure we have any of these. None of our 7 wingers pose a goal threat and I just don't see any of them getting better;Hogg and bacuna are defensive midfielders as is Chab's; O' Brien isn't impactful yet; and Kongolo, isn't an attacking back. Maybe Flo is.
Probably fit 4231 better but would still lack goal threat. So maybe 4312 with 2 strikers ( Grant and ano) and Pritchard behind?.
If stick with 433 try Pritchard in the Mooy role ? But this still leaves the winger and full back issues.
Second , set pieces. Our corners and free kicks are awful. Need someone to coach improvement.
Other improvement involves player changes- lose those who don't want to be there or aren't good enough and get good replacements. Can't see this being fixed before next summer.
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,556
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Post by k1man999 on Aug 17, 2019 13:27:35 GMT 1
Watched a replay today. Based on this and the other games, I think there are two quick wins. First, formatiom. I think most of the players are championship quality but just don't see them fitting 433. My understanding is that when attacking, this system requires 2 good wingers, 2 box to box midfielders and 2 attacking full backs. Not sure we have any of these. None of our 7 wingers pose a goal threat and I just don't see any of them getting better;Hogg and bacuna are defensive midfielders as is Chab's; O' Brien isn't impactful yet; and Kongolo, isn't an attacking back. Maybe Flo is. Probably fit 4231 better but would still lack goal threat. So maybe 4312 with 2 strikers ( Grant and ano) and Pritchard behind?. If stick with 433 try Pritchard in the Mooy role ? But this still leaves the winger and full back issues. Second , set pieces. Our corners and free kicks are awful. Need someone to coach improvement. Other improvement involves player changes- lose those who don't want to be there or aren't good enough and get good replacements. Can't see this being fixed before next summer. With what we have I'd go 532/352 Schindler Elphick kongolo Flo n try bockhorn at lb he's got TG covering him Hogg obrien Pritchard Mounie/grant/Campbell 2 of those 3 |
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Aug 17, 2019 13:35:35 GMT 1
Watched a replay today. Based on this and the other games, I think there are two quick wins. First, formatiom. I think most of the players are championship quality but just don't see them fitting 433. My understanding is that when attacking, this system requires 2 good wingers, 2 box to box midfielders and 2 attacking full backs. Not sure we have any of these. None of our 7 wingers pose a goal threat and I just don't see any of them getting better;Hogg and bacuna are defensive midfielders as is Chab's; O' Brien isn't impactful yet; and Kongolo, isn't an attacking back. Maybe Flo is. Probably fit 4231 better but would still lack goal threat. So maybe 4312 with 2 strikers ( Grant and ano) and Pritchard behind?. If stick with 433 try Pritchard in the Mooy role ? But this still leaves the winger and full back issues. Second , set pieces. Our corners and free kicks are awful. Need someone to coach improvement. Other improvement involves player changes- lose those who don't want to be there or aren't good enough and get good replacements. Can't see this being fixed before next summer. With what we have I'd go 532/352 Schindler Elphick kongolo Flo n try bockhorn at lb he's got TG covering him Hogg obrien Pritchard Mounie/grant/Campbell 2 of those 3 Take out Elphick to start with. Wouldn't have any of Elphick, Quaner, Diakhaby, Mbenza or Bacuna anywhere near a Town team right now. Liabilities, every last one of 'em.  |
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Post by Mecha Corte on Aug 17, 2019 13:49:25 GMT 1
Watched a replay today. Based on this and the other games, I think there are two quick wins. First, formatiom. I think most of the players are championship quality but just don't see them fitting 433. My understanding is that when attacking, this system requires 2 good wingers, 2 box to box midfielders and 2 attacking full backs. Not sure we have any of these. None of our 7 wingers pose a goal threat and I just don't see any of them getting better;Hogg and bacuna are defensive midfielders as is Chab's; O' Brien isn't impactful yet; and Kongolo, isn't an attacking back. Maybe Flo is. Probably fit 4231 better but would still lack goal threat. So maybe 4312 with 2 strikers ( Grant and ano) and Pritchard behind?. If stick with 433 try Pritchard in the Mooy role ? But this still leaves the winger and full back issues. Second , set pieces. Our corners and free kicks are awful. Need someone to coach improvement. Other improvement involves player changes- lose those who don't want to be there or aren't good enough and get good replacements. Can't see this being fixed before next summer. Regards your second point, just last week I said the one upside to Mooy going was at least our corners should improve, last night they got worse, highlighted on the radio driving home about two of them going straight out for throw ins and another hitting the ref. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Aug 17, 2019 14:36:03 GMT 1
At least hed been caught in the face so had something to make a meal of. While that was going on, Chalabah was rolling about pretending to be hurt after losing the ball and leaving his team mates to defend the resulting attack. Id like to think the likes of Hogg, Hudson, Whitehead had a not so quiet word in his ear afterwards! I watched on TV. Mitrovich wasn’t caught anywhere. If you watch the replay it’s embarrassing. Clear cheating. And because no action taken I fully expect him to get a retrospective one match ban. As for Chalobah again tv replays show that it was Mitrovich who challenged him and caught him in the face with an elbow. It didn’t look natural from Mitrovich and if ref had seen it, you wouldn’t have blamed him for sending Mitrovich off. Well ive seen the mitrovic one and he does get struck a glancing blow. Nothing that would make you act like he did of course but there was contact. And yeah, there may well have been contact on chalabah. But again, there was nothing there to make you lie down like youve just copped a haymaker from Tyson Fury. Once the ball went dead and he finally realised he wasn;t going to get a free kick he was happy to get quickly back up and carry on as if nothing had happened. Theres no difference between the two other than our 'man' was doing it whilst we were defending an attack because HE'D lost the ball. |
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Post by haskins on Aug 17, 2019 15:24:26 GMT 1
Bang on - zero threat and cutting edge. Unbelievable header by Grant tonight for the goal. 21mm over the line...and our only goal from open play in 4 matches, including 3 games at home. Jan wasn’t the right man for the job - young guy who I am sure tried his best, but not the man for the job. I know we talk about maintaining a philosophy of play, but for me it now needs a shake up. I’d bring in Hughton - steady the ship, have respect from players and has a history of playing 2 up front in this league. If I was the new manager, play 2 CMs instead of 3 as although I prefer 3 given the personnel and all so similar, 2 holding mids is sufficient. Play two attacking wide men and two strikers (or one up and one just off ala Pritchard for harder matches). Elphick is woeful - not just the mistakes, he makes others nervous and Schindler constantly covering him. Not a better CB pairing in league than Schindler & Kongolo and natural left and right cbs, so has to be. Stankovic a very able stand in too...what message does it send out to guys like him Elphick coming in and playing ahead of him. I know some people dislike Flo so will never see it, but he was very good last night and will be just fine in this league. With Schindler inside him instead of Elphick, he will be much better too. People blaming him for second goal last night...he was stuck between two players...not his fault...the right sided CB or a CM should have come across and covered the inside space to stop the shot. Basics of football which again speaks volumes of Jan’s deficiencies. Grabara been a positive, 3 good CBs and a good young CB in waiting, Flo decent enough, 2 from 4 decent CMs depending on form, loads of wingers, again two of those on form and then 4 strikers which are decent at this level, and with good service will score goals. Grant and Mounie with good service could be very good. Left Back the big problem - if I was new manager I’d demand to sign a free agent LB whatever it takes. Squad has some quality - needs organised, lifted, clear direction and playing style and a manager who has enough clout to have difficult conversations with the board. Hughton fits the bill. Fingers crossed for the right appointment. UTT Well said sir - agree with your analysis 100%. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Aug 17, 2019 15:30:34 GMT 1
Flo was better going forward last night and for once put over a great cross for the goal.
But defensively he was as weak as ever. Hes just not physically strong enough to be a defender IMO.
And look at their winner. Hes in front of their player blocking his route to goal, then just pulls away, leaving him a clear sight to bend the ball into the far corner.
Sad thing is, weak as I think he is, he might be the best option we have in the squad.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 17, 2019 15:55:29 GMT 1
Watched a replay today. Based on this and the other games, I think there are two quick wins. First, formatiom. I think most of the players are championship quality but just don't see them fitting 433. My understanding is that when attacking, this system requires 2 good wingers, 2 box to box midfielders and 2 attacking full backs. Not sure we have any of these. None of our 7 wingers pose a goal threat and I just don't see any of them getting better;Hogg and bacuna are defensive midfielders as is Chab's; O' Brien isn't impactful yet; and Kongolo, isn't an attacking back. Maybe Flo is. Probably fit 4231 better but would still lack goal threat. So maybe 4312 with 2 strikers ( Grant and ano) and Pritchard behind?. If stick with 433 try Pritchard in the Mooy role ? But this still leaves the winger and full back issues. Second , set pieces. Our corners and free kicks are awful. Need someone to coach improvement. Other improvement involves player changes- lose those who don't want to be there or aren't good enough and get good replacements. Can't see this being fixed before next summer. With what we have I'd go 532/352 Schindler Elphick kongolo Flo n try bockhorn at lb he's got TG covering him Hogg obrien Pritchard Mounie/grant/Campbell 2 of those 3 Said it yesterday in the match thread, switch to 352, I might even try 442. |
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aca00js
Frank Worthington Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,978
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Post by aca00js on Aug 17, 2019 15:59:36 GMT 1
Flo was better going forward last night and for once put over a great cross for the goal. But defensively he was as weak as ever. Hes just not physically strong enough to be a defender IMO. And look at their winner. Hes in front of their player blocking his route to goal, then just pulls away, leaving him a clear sight to bend the ball into the far corner. Sad thing is, weak as I think he is, he might be the best option we have in the squad. For the second goal I don't blame Flo as a runner went to his left and the midfield didn't track him that is why he shifted |
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iangreaves
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 4,119
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Post by iangreaves on Aug 17, 2019 16:13:59 GMT 1
Flo was better going forward last night and for once put over a great cross for the goal. But defensively he was as weak as ever. Hes just not physically strong enough to be a defender IMO. And look at their winner. Hes in front of their player blocking his route to goal, then just pulls away, leaving him a clear sight to bend the ball into the far corner. Sad thing is, weak as I think he is, he might be the best option we have in the squad. The overlapping player making the run round the outside caused Flo to react. Not one of our players came to help. |
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Post by nicovaesen on Aug 17, 2019 16:21:43 GMT 1
Flo was better going forward last night and for once put over a great cross for the goal. But defensively he was as weak as ever. Hes just not physically strong enough to be a defender IMO. And look at their winner. Hes in front of their player blocking his route to goal, then just pulls away, leaving him a clear sight to bend the ball into the far corner. Sad thing is, weak as I think he is, he might be the best option we have in the squad. The overlapping player making the run round the outside caused Flo to react. Not one of our players came to help. He starting moaning at someone in the box when it went out for a Fulham corner for the same thing. Who wasent tracking their man? |
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Post by griffa on Aug 17, 2019 19:15:58 GMT 1
Flo was better going forward last night and for once put over a great cross for the goal. But defensively he was as weak as ever. Hes just not physically strong enough to be a defender IMO. And look at their winner. Hes in front of their player blocking his route to goal, then just pulls away, leaving him a clear sight to bend the ball into the far corner. Sad thing is, weak as I think he is, he might be the best option we have in the squad. Flo is woeful, he cannot tackle & is constantly caught out of position, just like Elphick, not good enough! |
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Post by rastrick32 on Aug 17, 2019 19:19:35 GMT 1
I watched on TV. Mitrovich wasn’t caught anywhere. If you watch the replay it’s embarrassing. Clear cheating. And because no action taken I fully expect him to get a retrospective one match ban. As for Chalobah again tv replays show that it was Mitrovich who challenged him and caught him in the face with an elbow. It didn’t look natural from Mitrovich and if ref had seen it, you wouldn’t have blamed him for sending Mitrovich off. Well ive seen the mitrovic one and he does get struck a glancing blow. Nothing that would make you act like he did of course but there was contact. And yeah, there may well have been contact on chalabah. But again, there was nothing there to make you lie down like youve just copped a haymaker from Tyson Fury. Once the ball went dead and he finally realised he wasn;t going to get a free kick he was happy to get quickly back up and carry on as if nothing had happened. Theres no difference between the two other than our 'man' was doing it whilst we were defending an attack because HE'D lost the ball. Mitrovic did it earlier in the second half, trying to get someone booked for a block tackle. He rolled even more in that one and leapt up when he realised there was no card. His little gimp (Arter) was whining and droning away at the ref as Mitrovic entered his tenth roll. |
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