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Post by dugnet on Aug 18, 2019 9:38:38 GMT 1
Can we have one please?
For a good few months I have been concerned that we did not have a clear strategy and essentially the club has been reacting in it's decision making. I actually said that we had been "winging it ". Whether people agree or not I think there is more than enough evidence now to suggest that I may not be too far from the truth.
We need a clear plan and contingency in the event things change.
I am completely resigned to the fact that a return to the Premier League is highly improbable this season. That is ok, but let's ensure we stabilise and have a realistic ambition to try and mount a credible challenge in the 2 seasons that follow. Of course to do so we need ensure we are in the Championship.
The next manager/head coach has to be a long term solution, or at least appointed with that aim. He has to be able to get us results until January when he must be supported. This assumes that we are able to support him financially.
The question of budgets is one that we are all a bit confused about. Although we have proved that a large playing budget is not essential to achieving on the pitch it is critical that you have people who are capable of using resources well. The structure that Wilson and Webber created, and led us to DW, has apparently been abandoned. For me this is at the root of the situation we find ourselves in. What worked behind the scenes then can work again but there needs to be a strong structure.
Webb arrives this week, I think? He must hit the ground running and take some control. PH is a novice at this level (no insult intended but he is). Winter and Marsh have discovered one potentially very good signing, Grant, in their time taking responsibility. Evidence suggests that they need help or aren't up to the job (sorry to be blunt). Webb needs to take ownership and start by telling people what we need to do and the people he tells need to listen.
Budgets are the elephant in the room. None of us really understand what we have and don't have. We also don't know what PH can bring to the table. Unfortunately we are in a twilight between having better paid players, some you could argue who are both over paid and over valued, and trying to return to a sustainable position. This presents many challenges in keeping financial stability and also being able to compete. This is a situation I worry about as I don't think we have a handle on what to do. If we don't get the balance right we could really struggle and everything achieved and the apparent opportunity the Premier League offered will be squandered. Looking for new investors in the Championship is not easy, certainly not compared to the Premier League, but I think it's something we have discarded as an option far too readily. It may now only be a limited option too.
The balance in the squad needs addressing but other than shipping people out in the European window we can't change anything until January. The new manager and Webb at least have a little time to have a plan for January. The new manager obviously has to get us points in order to keep the pressure off. That is probably harder than we think.
In order to fix things you firstly need to acknowledge there is something that needs fixing. Winter's comment earlier this year that "not everything is broken" is not wholly incorrect but he cannot say that things are working either. PH needs to get away from the sound bites and waffle and demonstrate we do have a strategy and plan.
At the moment it looks like we completely wasted the summer. We are where we are but we must learn from the mistakes, admit that they happened, why they happened and move forward with that knowledge.
If we react again to where we are there is always a possibility that we might be successful but the likelihood is things will not improve and likely get worse. The skill is actually having the courage to say "stop, let's understand what has happened and what we need to do to be successful again".
This is a massively important moment in the history of the club. Get it right and we can build again. Get it wrong and we are potentially looking at everything created being lost and having to start again. If that happened it would be something that I am unsure we would ever really recover from, certainly not to the same level we have just enjoyed.
Sorry to be so downbeat about things but it's how I see our situation.
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Post by In sooth- - on Aug 18, 2019 9:46:43 GMT 1
But what does the interim coach do in the meantime to get some points? Very worrying time.
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Post by sykeylad on Aug 18, 2019 9:52:29 GMT 1
Is it you don't think there a plan, or you just don't like the one we had?
Seems pretty clear what we were trying to do to ne.
Pretty bleedin' obvious it didn't go as well as it could and it unravelled quickly with JS.
Surely we can provide a little patience to let a revision take shape.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Aug 18, 2019 9:55:42 GMT 1
Imo we will struggle to stay up, we dont have a team unit.
We seem to lost spirit and confidence.
Also Do you think they will suddenly get others scoring besides Grant ?
They need more than a plan.
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Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Aug 18, 2019 9:59:21 GMT 1
Will hudson revert to the tried and tested 4-2-3-1? I suspect he might now that JS and his baffling 4-3-3 have gone.
The players may be more comfortable playing a 4-2-3-1 which in itself would be a bonus.
they need to be confident in the system being played which they most certainly were not.
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Aug 18, 2019 10:09:45 GMT 1
Disagree with the recruitment. I think we've done a great job with this lot. Some really talented players. We will be ok in 6 months plus but we needed two more to sort the first team right now.
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Post by sykeylad on Aug 18, 2019 10:10:17 GMT 1
I agree entirely. Squad fits 4231.
Everyone knows their job with it.
Keep it simple, will will improve and quickly.
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Post by froggyterrier on Aug 18, 2019 10:13:42 GMT 1
Start by playing the best players on their best positions;
Schindler | Kongolo
(Midfield)
Pritchard
Grant
Then build a formation to suit these players.
(GK)
(FB) | Schindler | Kongolo | (FB)
(MF) | (MF) | (MF)
Pritchard
(ST) | Grant
Then pick players for these positions who are the best options we currently have there.
Grabara
Kachunga | Schindler | Kongolo | van la Parra
Bacuna | Hogg | Brown
Pritchard
Mounié | Grant
Look at the team, identify its strengths (ball possession, a solid spine and bodies in the box) and play to those strengths. So attacking full-backs to get forward while the packed midfield wins and retains possession, the man in the free role drifts and looks to pick up the ball in pockets of space and move. The front two operate as a traditional "big and little" partnership and 2 of the midfield 3 try to spread and push forward to support the wide players & front men. Chalobah could force his way in but not sure he'll provide what were going to need. Hope I'm wrong but don't see him displacing Hogg and don't see us playing a double pivot with him and Hogg either.
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drewden
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,811
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Post by drewden on Aug 18, 2019 10:16:13 GMT 1
Imo we will struggle to stay up, we dont have a team unit. We seem to lost spirit and confidence. Also Do you think they will suddenly get others scoring besides Grant ? They need more than a plan. This is why the next manager we appoint is so crucial, as supporters you live in the hope your club achieve something, this part is out of our hands. I just hope our club gets out of this mess we are in pretty quickly, and dare I say it, get the winning formula back to challenge for promotion. It's not at all impossible, we have the players, and hopefully with a good manager we will be rocking and rolling again. I live in hope. |
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Aug 18, 2019 10:16:46 GMT 1
Disagree with the recruitment. I think we've done a great job with this lot. Some really talented players. We will be ok in 6 months plus but we needed two more to sort the first team right now. Trouble is, 6 months time Kongolo will either be gone or be going in the Summer. Schindler will be a year older or going and Karlan Grant will be getting his head turned. |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Aug 18, 2019 10:21:00 GMT 1
Disagree with the recruitment. I think we've done a great job with this lot. Some really talented players. We will be ok in 6 months plus but we needed two more to sort the first team right now. You serious? Am I having a whoosh moment? We're not as bad as we're doing, but the recruitment has been somewhere between poor and shocking. Some over-paying, some positions neglected (e.g. LB) and some questionable signings in general. |
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Aug 18, 2019 10:25:55 GMT 1
Disagree with the recruitment. I think we've done a great job with this lot. Some really talented players. We will be ok in 6 months plus but we needed two more to sort the first team right now. Trouble is, 6 months time Kongolo will either be gone or be going in the Summer. Schindler will be a year older or going and Karlan Grant will be getting his head turned. Yes. But the players we brought in are still good and should be ready to step up. Don't forget we have players like REG coming up too. |
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Aug 18, 2019 10:27:54 GMT 1
Disagree with the recruitment. I think we've done a great job with this lot. Some really talented players. We will be ok in 6 months plus but we needed two more to sort the first team right now. You serious? Am I having a whoosh moment? We're not as bad as we're doing, but the recruitment has been somewhere between poor and shocking. Some over-paying, some positions neglected (e.g. LB) and some questionable signings in general. Over paying? No such thing. Yes like I said, two positions neglected, lb being one of them. Who? Who have we bought in the last two windows who is wuestionable? I think we've done a really good job with who we got, the fact that we needed one or two for certain positions is a different point. |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 18, 2019 11:18:06 GMT 1
Is it you don't think there a plan, or you just don't like the one we had? Seems pretty clear what we were trying to do to ne. Pretty bleedin' obvious it didn't go as well as it could and it unravelled quickly with JS. Surely we can provide a little patience to let a revision take shape. I really don't think we have a clear plan at all. I can't believe it was part of the plan to throw such an inexperienced coach into the Premier League? He may have been on the radar but surely wasn't the right man at that time? |
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Post by sykeylad on Aug 18, 2019 11:38:41 GMT 1
Try thinking about it?
Clearly we didn't plan DW to go mid season but we were working on a succession plan.
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Post by canuckterrier on Aug 18, 2019 11:55:54 GMT 1
Disagree with the recruitment. I think we've done a great job with this lot. Some really talented players. We will be ok in 6 months plus but we needed two more to sort the first team right now. / You think the recruitment has been great except for being two first team players short? What is your definition of a poor recruitment? |
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Post by oldrain on Aug 18, 2019 12:03:45 GMT 1
Whoever takes over whether it be short term or permanent has got to get the team taking shots at goal whenever we get a chance under both Wagner and Siewert we have overplayed when in good shooting positions shots on goal get the fans behind the team same with crossing hit it on the run instead of trapping the ball and then crossing
It’s a simple game made hard by overplaying play in opposition half and don’t piss about in ours making the keeper have more touches than rest of the team UTT
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Post by dugnet on Aug 18, 2019 12:11:59 GMT 1
Try thinking about it? Clearly we didn't plan DW to go mid season but we were working on a succession plan. The fact we found ourselves in a position were DW did leave when he did questions our overall plan since we were promoted. This was the point I am trying to make. We gave Siewert the job but was that really the best decision and did we have any alternatives? A succession plan isn't just about giving the job to the next bloke you have on a list of potential candidates. |
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Aug 18, 2019 12:26:05 GMT 1
Disagree with the recruitment. I think we've done a great job with this lot. Some really talented players. We will be ok in 6 months plus but we needed two more to sort the first team right now. / You think the recruitment has been great except for being two first team players short? What is your definition of a poor recruitment? The original poster said that the quality of players wasn't good enough. I disagree. I do agree that we needed two more first team players. My point was about the quality of the ones brought in. I do think the ones we have brought in look good and are promising talents. I like that we are buying up the young talent it's a blueprint that I prefer to see. Too many people on forums don't look at the context of comments. FWIW I think that we do have players who can do a job like Jaden Brown. Personally LB would be between him and Bockhorn. We have a good team, but they are dangerously low on confidence and it's seriously hampering them, The manager didn't seem to have a tactic plan or game management skills; but with a decent manager I think we can do well. |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Aug 18, 2019 12:26:31 GMT 1
You serious? Am I having a whoosh moment? We're not as bad as we're doing, but the recruitment has been somewhere between poor and shocking. Some over-paying, some positions neglected (e.g. LB) and some questionable signings in general. Over paying? No such thing. Yes like I said, two positions neglected, lb being one of them. Who? Who have we bought in the last two windows who is wuestionable? I think we've done a really good job with who we got, the fact that we needed one or two for certain positions is a different point. If you stretch that to three windows then we signed Mbenza (loan to buy), Diakhaby & Sobhi who were all well overpriced. In this summer's window we signed Bockhorn, Brown & Koroma who aren't considered good enough to start and we've signed Chalobah who it appears is the replacement for our best two midfielders (Mooy & Billing). We've also replaced a Danish international central defender with an has been centre half who wasn't considered good enough for promotion chasing Villa last season. I wouldn't call that good recruitment. |
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Post by sykeylad on Aug 18, 2019 12:34:22 GMT 1
Try thinking about it? Clearly we didn't plan DW to go mid season but we were working on a succession plan. The fact we found ourselves in a position were DW did leave when he did questions our overall plan since we were promoted. This was the point I am trying to make. We gave Siewert the job but was that really the best decision and did we have any alternatives? A succession plan isn't just about giving the job to the next bloke you have on a list of potential candidates. Yes you are questioning the plan itself. That is my point. You are entitled to an opinion but you are not in the inner circle. So you don't know all the details. Effectively you are just moaning. |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 18, 2019 12:41:07 GMT 1
The fact we found ourselves in a position were DW did leave when he did questions our overall plan since we were promoted. This was the point I am trying to make. We gave Siewert the job but was that really the best decision and did we have any alternatives? A succession plan isn't just about giving the job to the next bloke you have on a list of potential candidates. Yes you are questioning the plan itself. That is my point. You are entitled to an opinion but you are not in the inner circle. So you don't know all the details. Effectively you are just moaning. You are correct that I don't know what is said. I am however looking at the evidence and making an observation. I would contend moaning is not qualified. |
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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Aug 18, 2019 12:47:08 GMT 1
Over paying? No such thing. Yes like I said, two positions neglected, lb being one of them. Who? Who have we bought in the last two windows who is wuestionable? I think we've done a really good job with who we got, the fact that we needed one or two for certain positions is a different point. If you stretch that to three windows then we signed Mbenza (loan to buy), Diakhaby & Sobhi who were all well overpriced. In this summer's window we signed Bockhorn, Brown & Koroma who aren't considered good enough to start and we've signed Chalobah who it appears is the replacement for our best two midfielders (Mooy & Billing). We've also replaced a Danish international central defender with an has been centre half who wasn't considered good enough for promotion chasing Villa last season. I wouldn't call that good recruitment. Not true though is it. Elphic got injured so didn't play. The villa fans who came on here and the hull(?) Fans said he was immense for them and a real leader. We all said we needed players who were experienced and good in the division... Then people complain. Our defence has looked fairly decent but has had one or two mistakes (same as last year, and more than likely a confidence issue) The reason I used two windows is because Josh marsh has had the say the last two, not the previous ones. Diakhaby, mbenza and sobhi all looked a really good level at times but garbage at others. The management is more to blame. They are also all the type of players to bring into a solid team and allow them to find their feet, they've not had that chance. They hardly played last season when they should have been given chances to get used to the English game. Again that comes down to management. Brown and koroma certainly look to have the ability but who can say if we don't see them in the first team. They weren't bought as starting XI though. Jury is out on Bockhorn but he's the only siewert buy anyway. I completely get that we have played gash. But for me in my opinion it is all down to management and confidence, the two things go hand in hand. But I aren't going to start throwing the baby out with the bath water. A good manager should be able to come in and do really well with our team. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on Aug 18, 2019 13:00:42 GMT 1
We'll be playing 4 4 FUCKING 2
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Post by Headless Chicken on Aug 18, 2019 13:59:54 GMT 1
You serious? Am I having a whoosh moment? We're not as bad as we're doing, but the recruitment has been somewhere between poor and shocking. Some over-paying, some positions neglected (e.g. LB) and some questionable signings in general. Over paying? No such thing. Yes like I said, two positions neglected, lb being one of them. Who? Who have we bought in the last two windows who is wuestionable? I think we've done a really good job with who we got, the fact that we needed one or two for certain positions is a different point. Appreciate these are beyond the last two windows, but we have overpaid for Mbenza, Diakhaby, Flo and Pritchard for a start. And the former two both fall into the highly questionable category along with Sobhi. Flo and Pritchard are questionable, the latter possibly more so for where he's been played and pressing football; Boothy got around the pitch against Mansfield quicker 😄 We overpaid for Kongola, as much as he's a top player. Bacuna is questionable, although has scope to come good. Bockhorn looks questionable and so does Elphick. It's a bit premature with them and I'd have no issue if both were acquired for the squad only, especially if Elphick was in part for imparting his experience. Were they seen as squad players though? Would like to see Reece Brown get more game time, whilst Koroma seems one for the future, so not going to comment on them or others that are clearly not for the first eleven immediately. I've probably missed a few, and apologies, that was a bit garbled! |
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Post by impact on Aug 18, 2019 14:36:51 GMT 1
Here's a plan. In the January window...
SIGN A FUCKING LEFT-BACK
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Aug 18, 2019 14:48:22 GMT 1
Get Norwood and Clayton back ten x better than our current midfield
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Post by Boaty McBoatface on Aug 18, 2019 14:52:41 GMT 1
Over paying? No such thing. Yes like I said, two positions neglected, lb being one of them. Who? Who have we bought in the last two windows who is wuestionable? I think we've done a really good job with who we got, the fact that we needed one or two for certain positions is a different point. If you stretch that to three windows then we signed Mbenza (loan to buy), Diakhaby & Sobhi who were all well overpriced. In this summer's window we signed Bockhorn, Brown & Koroma who aren't considered good enough to start and we've signed Chalobah who it appears is the replacement for our best two midfielders (Mooy & Billing). We've also replaced a Danish international central defender with an has been centre half who wasn't considered good enough for promotion chasing Villa last season. I wouldn't call that good recruitment. Completely agree. After all our transfer dealings, I'd say we have 4 half decent players left on our books (Grabara, CS, TK, JH). At this point, I would take 21st position. |
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Post by yappledapple on Aug 18, 2019 14:55:43 GMT 1
Here's a plan. In the January window... SIGN A FUCKING LEFT-BACK It will be interesting to see if MH is his own man on Wednesday and decides to move Kongolo back into the middle where he’s most comfortable and then decide who his LB is going to be from the limited options he has available. Could VLP have the discipline to play there like some have suggested? |
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Post by tvor on Aug 18, 2019 14:58:06 GMT 1
Get Norwood and Clayton back ten x better than our current midfield Norwood!!?? Nurse, nurse. He’s out of bed again. |
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