January Transfer Window

[HuddsTerrier]

I may be in a minority but I think I’d be okay if we signed Sammie Szmodics and Harry toffolo - both are still young and have shown they can play regularly at a lower level but crucially the cowleys have had both as players so will know their character; football intelligence, work ethic, bottle etc

Toffolo is out of contract soon so should be cheap and Szmodics would hopefully have some purchase clause in a loan deal

The championship is as much about determination - eg Sheffield Utd don’t have the best team (many of the squad out of league one) but they are very hard working, structured, and fully committed

[dugnet]

If there's one positive that has emerged it is that the club, as articulated precisely by Danny Cowley, has acknowledged that we got ourselves into a mess. As with any problem before you can fix it you have to identify it.

Unfortunately that mess seemed to be easy to create but rather less easy to solve. Anyone who thinks that all will be resolved in January is living in cuckoo land. Indeed Danny Cowley has also said as much.

I understand the clamour for immediate action and it was suggested on this thread that we should have been shipping out the "Down toolers " immediately. Fine in theory, not as easy in practice. Brown was relatively easy, good season at a level of football in this country that is understood and probably affordable to most League One clubs. Not surprised that this was readily agreed.

Bochorn looks like a terminate with mutual consent, it just depends on how much we gave him as a contract.

Kongolo has a value, I don't blame PH for trying to get as much back on him as possible but that negotiation won't be easy. Similar applies to Mbenza and Diakhaby but we over paid for them and are having to suffer. We want to recoup as much as possible but their value has to be realistic, we'll make a big loss. The question is to what extent is having these players on our books is having an impact on new recruits coming in? If it is hampering our ability to do business decisions need to be taken, although short term you would hope that we have room to manoeuvre.

January is always a difficult window but as Cowley has outlined it is important if not critical for us. It is a mess and the next 4 weeks will only be part of the rebuilding process. If we don't make changes, and at this point I can't believe we won't (we have to in order to survive in the Championship), then we are in trouble.

I understand people looking for the reasons and pointing the finger at individuals, this is to be expected. However let's see what happens and what support the Cowleys get. For me this is the real issue, if PH is unable to support the Cowleys then we are all right to ask serious questions. Moreover the consequences for the club will be significant. We have employed probably the most dynamic, forward thinking and capable management team available at our current level and not to support them would be nonsensical. I have no doubt that if we don't look forward, resolve the mess, give the Cowleys support and try and do things, for want of a better phrase, "on the cheap", then the club will return to League 1 and be exactly were we where when DH took over. That would be a pretty pitiful legacy for all the great things that were achieved.

January is just short of being crucial but it is massively important. It feels truly transitional (Not in the rhetorical way as outlined by PH in the summer). Will Jan 2020 be the real start of the Cowley Revolution? I really hope so.

[bogart]

Jan 4, 2020 0:07:46 GMT 1 vivabobbyhoy said:

Jan 3, 2020 23:30:06 GMT 1 tockyterrier said:

Cowley said he had a cyst behind his knee

Great to see Pritchard get another a cyst, even if it is off the back of his knee. They all count.

Out of the 52 pages, of mainly drivel, on this topic least I had a laugh at this.

[haveitback]

Jan 4, 2020 10:10:47 GMT 1 @ixion said:

The 2018/19 accounts are due by 31 March 2020.
Until then we have no idea whether the payback to DH (to which he is absolutely entitled) has even started. It could be March 2021 before we find out whether transfer activity in this current season has been impacted by any repayments.
It may be years before we find out what the total payment amounts to, and over how many seasons it will be spread.
All we know at the moment is that the club will repay most but not all of our debt to him.
As for the criticism of DH in this thread, I would be prepared to accept opinions only from individuals who have suffered from a life threatening illness after having invested around £50m of their private fortune in the club.

I can't thank Dean hoyle enough for what he did in his time at the club, However I do take exception to this he's entitled to all £ back comment, I've said before DH became chairman/custodian of his own choice and monies invested to the club were also his own choice as it is with all chairman, I have no problem with him recouping his investment if we are cash rich, which I don't believe we are, I have no problem with him recouping his investment as long as it doesn't effect future investment in the club here and now from parachute payments, which I believe it will & if he is going to recoup all his investment then the purchase of canal side by him and the subsequent rent we will have to pay needs to be looked into, Can't have it all ways, As things stand at the moment we have a real risk of dropping to league one so all the clubs focus needs to be on the current squad and survival, Not ensuring a previous chairman recoups his coin

[bogart]

Jan 4, 2020 3:11:43 GMT 1 impact said:

Jan 4, 2020 2:25:24 GMT 1 willo said:

Given how desperately short on experienced professionals we are at the moment, that is a poor attitude to have. At 80% fitness, he could do a job for 60 mins or at the very least, the final 30 mins. Least we know it’s another one not to be relied on when the chips are down. Can only imagine what the likes of Hogg must think! What a pussy.

Or he knows that if he keeps playing at 80% he'll keep getting injured, so needs to wait a bit longer to get to 100% and reduce that likelihood.

Exactly at only 80% fit the likelihood of making it worse looms large.

[dugnet]

Jan 4, 2020 10:10:47 GMT 1 @ixion said:

The 2018/19 accounts are due by 31 March 2020.
Until then we have no idea whether the payback to DH (to which he is absolutely entitled) has even started. It could be March 2021 before we find out whether transfer activity in this current season has been impacted by any repayments.
It may be years before we find out what the total payment amounts to, and over how many seasons it will be spread.
All we know at the moment is that the club will repay most but not all of our debt to him.
As for the criticism of DH in this thread, I would be prepared to accept opinions only from individuals who have suffered from a life threatening illness after having invested around £50m of their private fortune in the club.

I have every respect for DH and everything he has done for the club but equally I have stated that good people make mistakes and I think he would be honest and say the same. He is still a 25% shareholders and as such still has a voice as to how we get out of the mess that he presided over. His illness was awful for him and his family but many of the decisions taken happened long before he fell ill, it merely compounded a bad situation.

The fact is that the decisions taken immediately prior to and during our 2nd season in the Premier League were very poor. They were undoubtedly honest mistakes but ultimately costly.

The issue in taking back his investment is also something I don't have a problem with but I don't understand why it has not been entirely transparent. DH was always straight with the fans but this feels not as straight forward as previously. I think had he sold to a different buyer, and I am not having a pop at PH here, in a straight cash deal it would have been clear. As it is we are still unsure of where we stand and what our ambition, direction and realistically what we can expect to achieve. Given that we did have 2 years in the Premier League and took over £200m + in revenue (I estimate that is probably about £160m more than was anticipated had we not been promoted) it is pretty poor to be in such an uncertain position.

Now I have never suffered a life threatening condition nor have I invested £50m in the club but I would say the above are pretty fair observations.

That all said we acknowledge there is a mess to solve, we have a management team to give us confidence so let's see what happens. The questions remain but progress on the pitch will ultimately determine how important they are.

[dezzly]

Jan 4, 2020 10:14:06 GMT 1 HuddsTerrier said:

I may be in a minority but I think I’d be okay if we signed Sammie Szmodics and Harry toffolo - both are still young and have shown they can play at the regularly at a lower level but crucially the cowleys have had both as players so will know their character; football intelligence, work ethic, bottle etc

Toffolo is out of contract soon so should be cheap and Szmodics would hopefully have some purchase clause in a loan deal

The championship is as much about determination - eg Sheffield Utd don’t have the best team (many of the squad out of league one) but they are very hard working, structured, and fully committed

Tend to agree with this,don’t think the division is that strong and we proved in the unbeaten run we had that with solid consistent performers results can be picked up regularly.we are short of numbers now due to certain circumstances but bringing in more players who can be 7/10 week in week out can get you a long way in the championship.even if recruit from lower down if they are players that played regular “mens” football and have proved and perform consistently it will certainly be enough to see us through to the end of the season without too much worry.no one would have had Lewis o brien as one of first names on team sheet before a ball was kicked.

[detox]

Jan 4, 2020 0:15:04 GMT 1 E4b said:

Jan 3, 2020 23:53:49 GMT 1 wigster said:

Certainly my opinion of Dean Hoyle has changed dramatically in the last 18 months. How any club can make such a mess - financially, recruitment of manager, recruitment of players,apparent lack of any financial gain from being in the Premier league for two years, the abject acceptance of relegation for, what, the whole of the second season etc etc etc is incredibly hard to take.I don't know if we're actually worse off than we were before our promotion but it seems a pretty near thing.

Dean Hoyle is now out of it, with seemingly all/most/some of his money back very very quickly - I've no idea - but every time Danny Cowley talks about the state of the club he seems to reinforce what an absolute mess has been left behind. I have some memories of our stay in the Premier league, but most are unfortunately not very positive.

There is certainly a case of ‘posh kid taking his ball home’ here. Can’t understand the desperation of recouping his many millions before we get chance to regroup as a football club again.

DH is probably thinking if he doesn't get it back soon , PH will spaff all the money away... Fact is though (to be confirmed when the accounts come out) there's a big wad of cash in the clubs books..sat there...Unspent PL/Sky money...also in the clubs books is a big fat iou for some £50m ..loaned to the club by DH...What would you do when you sold the club...just write off that iou..effectively paying PH £50m to take the club off your hands ? 

[bluestripe]

Jan 4, 2020 10:36:42 GMT 1 haveitback said:

Jan 4, 2020 10:10:47 GMT 1 @ixion said:

The 2018/19 accounts are due by 31 March 2020.
Until then we have no idea whether the payback to DH (to which he is absolutely entitled) has even started. It could be March 2021 before we find out whether transfer activity in this current season has been impacted by any repayments.
It may be years before we find out what the total payment amounts to, and over how many seasons it will be spread.
All we know at the moment is that the club will repay most but not all of our debt to him.
As for the criticism of DH in this thread, I would be prepared to accept opinions only from individuals who have suffered from a life threatening illness after having invested around £50m of their private fortune in the club.

I can't thank Dean hoyle enough for what he did in his time at the club, However I do take exception to this he's entitled to all £ back comment, I've said before DH became chairman/custodian of his own choice and monies invested to the club were also his own choice as it is with all chairman, I have no problem with him recouping his investment if we are cash rich, which I don't believe we are, I have no problem with him recouping his investment as long as it doesn't effect future investment in the club here and now from parachute payments, which I believe it will & if he is going to recoup all his investment then the purchase of canal side by him and the subsequent rent we will have to pay needs to be looked into, Can't have it all ways, As things stand at the moment we have a real risk of dropping to league one so all the clubs focus needs to be on the current squad and survival, Not ensuring a previous chairman recoups his coin

Can I suggest prefixing "don't" to your username? 😊

Summarising your post is that DH should never have seen his money as an investment or a loan, but a gift.

Can you really imagine a normal scenario where Town would be "cash rich" (as you say) enough to pay Dean back? There is currently a once only, exceptional situation where that can be done, if that has been agreed.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2020 10:58:40 GMT 1 detox said:

Jan 4, 2020 0:15:04 GMT 1 E4b said:

There is certainly a case of ‘posh kid taking his ball home’ here. Can’t understand the desperation of recouping his many millions before we get chance to regroup as a football club again.

DH is probably thinking if he doesn't get it back soon , PH will spaff all the money away... Fact is though (to be confirmed when the accounts come out) there's a big wad of cash in the clubs books..sat there...Unspent PL/Sky money...also in the clubs books is a big fat iou for some £50m ..loaned to the club by DH...What would you do when you sold the club...just write off that iou..effectively paying PH £50m to take the club off your hands ? 

It is the club that owes DH the £50m, irrespective of ownership. Take the trouble to read the last set of accounts, it isn't rocket science

[ambryboy]

Jan 4, 2020 11:10:18 GMT 1 @ixion said:

Jan 4, 2020 10:58:40 GMT 1 detox said:

DH is probably thinking if he doesn't get it back soon , PH will spaff all the money away... Fact is though (to be confirmed when the accounts come out) there's a big wad of cash in the clubs books..sat there...Unspent PL/Sky money...also in the clubs books is a big fat iou for some £50m ..loaned to the club by DH...What would you do when you sold the club...just write off that iou..effectively paying PH £50m to take the club off your hands ? 

It is the club that owes DH the £50m, irrespective of ownership. Take the trouble to read the last set of accounts, it isn't rocket science

If DH has retained a 25% stakeholding why aren't we repaying him £37.5m instead of the full £50m? It might not be rocket science but it baffles the s**t out of me.

[Porrohman]

Jan 4, 2020 2:20:12 GMT 1 willo said:

Jan 4, 2020 1:49:59 GMT 1 townrwe said:

Never turned up... they were due at 10am. Cooked 8 extra dinners for the entourage.... Lads in the kitchen had a good lunch. Nothing booked until Tuesday now. Due and at canalside are a different prediction.. 96.3%

Blimey, it’s turned into Jackanory now.

Has it ever been any different from him ?

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2020 11:06:07 GMT 1 bluestripe said:

Jan 4, 2020 10:36:42 GMT 1 haveitback said:

I can't thank Dean hoyle enough for what he did in his time at the club, However I do take exception to this he's entitled to all £ back comment, I've said before DH became chairman/custodian of his own choice and monies invested to the club were also his own choice as it is with all chairman, I have no problem with him recouping his investment if we are cash rich, which I don't believe we are, I have no problem with him recouping his investment as long as it doesn't effect future investment in the club here and now from parachute payments, which I believe it will & if he is going to recoup all his investment then the purchase of canal side by him and the subsequent rent we will have to pay needs to be looked into, Can't have it all ways, As things stand at the moment we have a real risk of dropping to league one so all the clubs focus needs to be on the current squad and survival, Not ensuring a previous chairman recoups his coin

Can I suggest prefixing "don't" to your username? 😊

Summarising your post is that DH should never have seen his money as an investment or a loan, but a gift.

Can you really imagine a normal scenario where Town would be "cash rich" (as you say) enough to pay Dean back? There is currently a once only, exceptional situation where that can be done, if that has been agreed.

It's a bottomless pit. As you say, now is probably the appropriate time to repay his loan. A fraction of the amount the club has received and will continue to receive thanks to that spell in the top flight. And then they talk about greedy players....

[Convictatthemac]

Back to the topic... #terrierinbound











Later, I know sweet f all but am over the rehashed conversation on DH and his repayments, go and start another thread

[artysid]

Jan 4, 2020 11:21:01 GMT 1 ambryboy said:

Jan 4, 2020 11:10:18 GMT 1 @ixion said:

It is the club that owes DH the £50m, irrespective of ownership. Take the trouble to read the last set of accounts, it isn't rocket science

If DH has retained a 25% stakeholding why aren't we repaying him £37.5m instead of the full £50m? It might not be rocket science but it baffles the s**t out of me.

No expert, but I expect 'ownership of shares' and 'loans' are seperate entities.

The Club is liable for his loans, but the new owners buy his 75% of shares presumably

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2020 11:21:01 GMT 1 ambryboy said:

Jan 4, 2020 11:10:18 GMT 1 @ixion said:

It is the club that owes DH the £50m, irrespective of ownership. Take the trouble to read the last set of accounts, it isn't rocket science

If DH has retained a 25% stakeholding why aren't we repaying him £37.5m instead of the full £50m? It might not be rocket science but it baffles the s**t out of me.

Because it's owed to him maybe? He could have remained as Chairman and still taken 100 % of his loan back. You're right, it's not rocket science.

[k1man999]

One thing I want to know is if DH is taking back money rightly/wrongly that he put in to the club will this effect FFP and what we have to play with

[4 pts]

Jan 4, 2020 11:06:07 GMT 1 bluestripe said:

Jan 4, 2020 10:36:42 GMT 1 haveitback said:

I can't thank Dean hoyle enough for what he did in his time at the club, However I do take exception to this he's entitled to all £ back comment, I've said before DH became chairman/custodian of his own choice and monies invested to the club were also his own choice as it is with all chairman, I have no problem with him recouping his investment if we are cash rich, which I don't believe we are, I have no problem with him recouping his investment as long as it doesn't effect future investment in the club here and now from parachute payments, which I believe it will & if he is going to recoup all his investment then the purchase of canal side by him and the subsequent rent we will have to pay needs to be looked into, Can't have it all ways, As things stand at the moment we have a real risk of dropping to league one so all the clubs focus needs to be on the current squad and survival, Not ensuring a previous chairman recoups his coin

Can I suggest prefixing "don't" to your username? 😊

Summarising your post is that DH should never have seen his money as an investment or a loan, but a gift.

Can you really imagine a normal scenario where Town would be "cash rich" (as you say) enough to pay Dean back? There is currently a once only, exceptional situation where that can be done, if that has been agreed.

There are and have been many a chairman/owners that have been lambasted for trying to make or take money from other clubs. The question is, when you take on a football club, should you expect to get your investment/money back ? 

[digs]

Well this is a jolly thread

[Maynardblue]

For what its worth I'm confident we will have a good window of both ins and outs and I hope this time next week we'll be in a better position.

[detox]

Jan 4, 2020 11:10:18 GMT 1 @ixion said:

Jan 4, 2020 10:58:40 GMT 1 detox said:

DH is probably thinking if he doesn't get it back soon , PH will spaff all the money away... Fact is though (to be confirmed when the accounts come out) there's a big wad of cash in the clubs books..sat there...Unspent PL/Sky money...also in the clubs books is a big fat iou for some £50m ..loaned to the club by DH...What would you do when you sold the club...just write off that iou..effectively paying PH £50m to take the club off your hands ? 

It is the club that owes DH the £50m, irrespective of ownership. Take the trouble to read the last set of accounts, it isn't rocket science

Why would you think I didn't already know that ? take the trouble to read the post.....

[Convictatthemac]

Jan 4, 2020 12:03:39 GMT 1 Maynardblue said:

For what its worth I'm confident we will have a good window of both ins and outs and I hope this time next week we'll be in a better position.

Thank you, at least someone with some sense is talking on topic.

[basil]

Jan 4, 2020 11:46:56 GMT 1 4 pts said:

Jan 4, 2020 11:06:07 GMT 1 bluestripe said:

Can I suggest prefixing "don't" to your username? 😊

Summarising your post is that DH should never have seen his money as an investment or a loan, but a gift.

Can you really imagine a normal scenario where Town would be "cash rich" (as you say) enough to pay Dean back? There is currently a once only, exceptional situation where that can be done, if that has been agreed.

There are and have been many a chairman/owners that have been lambasted for trying to make or take money from other clubs. The question is, when you take on a football club, should you expect to get your investment/money back ? 

In his early years he was pumping substantial amounts of money into the club with no possibility or expectation of ever seeing any of it again. Hopefully we can all agree on that.
Who knows how long this situation would have continued, no one else was queueing up to throw their money into the bottomless pit.

And then the miracle happened....

[workshyfop]

Jan 4, 2020 10:10:47 GMT 1 @ixion said:

The 2018/19 accounts are due by 31 March 2020.
Until then we have no idea whether the payback to DH (to which he is absolutely entitled) has even started. It could be March 2021 before we find out whether transfer activity in this current season has been impacted by any repayments.
It may be years before we find out what the total payment amounts to, and over how many seasons it will be spread.
All we know at the moment is that the club will repay most but not all of our debt to him.
As for the criticism of DH in this thread, I would be prepared to accept opinions only from individuals who have suffered from a life threatening illness after having invested around £50m of their private fortune in the club.

So, when you go to watch Town do you not have an opinion? I’m assuming you’ve not played professional football. When you watch a film do you not have an opinion? Again, I’m assuming you’re not a film director or actor? If you go to an art gallery, do you not comment on the paintings? Assuming once more that you’re not an artist for a living. When you’re asked to vote in an election, assuming you’re not a politician ... Etc. In other words, a very poor argument.

[Henry Mcgee]

I have no real idea how transfers and agents work, and even if I did I wouldn't have enough brain cells to understand it all but, that notwithstanding, I don't think anyone's at the club is doing a good enough job for me.

Bwawwwwllll 😭😭😭😭

[kennyk2]

Jan 4, 2020 12:03:39 GMT 1 Maynardblue said:

For what its worth I'm confident we will have a good window of both ins and outs and I hope this time next week we'll be in a better position.

Oh Maynard, I always get a bit of an endorphin rush when you post!

[nicovaesen]

Jan 4, 2020 10:10:47 GMT 1 @ixion said:

The 2018/19 accounts are due by 31 March 2020.
Until then we have no idea whether the payback to DH (to which he is absolutely entitled) has even started. It could be March 2021 before we find out whether transfer activity in this current season has been impacted by any repayments.
It may be years before we find out what the total payment amounts to, and over how many seasons it will be spread.
All we know at the moment is that the club will repay most but not all of our debt to him.
As for the criticism of DH in this thread, I would be prepared to accept opinions only from individuals who have suffered from a life threatening illness after having invested around £50m of their private fortune in the club.

How much money have you invested by buying merchandise, food drinks and tickets over the years watching town? Can you put in a request for yours too if we go down?

[Kenny irons]

Back to topic please

[Frankiesleftpeg]

Jan 4, 2020 12:03:39 GMT 1 Maynardblue said:

For what its worth I'm confident we will have a good window of both ins and outs and I hope this time next week we'll be in a better position.

As it appears that you are in the know on all things Town, can you please clarify/put to bed the rumours that the finances of the club are suffering as a result of DH wanting his money back? I wouldn't expect you to break any confidences but it might help if you or somebody at the club would say something on here that would clarify what as I see it is pure speculation based merely on rumour, but interpreted by some as fact.

[Doc Halladay 32]

Jan 4, 2020 12:31:15 GMT 1 nicovaesen said:

Jan 4, 2020 10:10:47 GMT 1 @ixion said:

The 2018/19 accounts are due by 31 March 2020.
Until then we have no idea whether the payback to DH (to which he is absolutely entitled) has even started. It could be March 2021 before we find out whether transfer activity in this current season has been impacted by any repayments.
It may be years before we find out what the total payment amounts to, and over how many seasons it will be spread.
All we know at the moment is that the club will repay most but not all of our debt to him.
As for the criticism of DH in this thread, I would be prepared to accept opinions only from individuals who have suffered from a life threatening illness after having invested around £50m of their private fortune in the club.

How much money have you invested by buying merchandise, food drinks and tickets over the years watching town? Can you put in a request for yours too if we go down?

Someone's getting mixed up over investments and purchases.