Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,948
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Post by Amigo on Dec 17, 2019 14:45:15 GMT 1
I don't understand what they're doing. Using artwork of monkeys in a new anti racism campaign.
Are they really that thick?
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Dec 17, 2019 14:51:52 GMT 1
Context.
The clubs have condemned it and were not consulted.
Which quite possibly is just bullshit.
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Tiro
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,981
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Post by Tiro on Dec 17, 2019 15:19:53 GMT 1
They're not thick at all. Trouble is, its hard to truly act / stand up to something you don't believe in. They are instead trying to be clever and formally sanitise racism in their league.
The league and its clubs value / are more concerned over the white, male dominated ultra's influence on football more than they value equality - most clubs are dependent on the income from such a loyal fanbase and fear the repercussions of their own 'fans' in a country that still holds a favourable assessment of Mussolini and nationalism (read about CasaPound et al). Their parliament is dominated by right-wing parties, including MS5 (both president and prime minister I think).
Hence the mandate; don't alienate/provoke the Ultra's. Instead try and use the perspective of the ultra's, that it's not racism to chant like a monkey at black players - this is instead a form of endearment or simple provocation, depending on your perspective, and people are too sensitive / 'it's political correctness gone mad' (the go to response for gammon the world over).
There's been a lot already this season to support this and FIFA have done very little to curb it.
It won't be too long until this gets rolled out here by some prick(s) as a valid excuse.
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Post by nicovaesen on Dec 17, 2019 15:24:21 GMT 1
Gammon?
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Post by Town Duppy on Dec 17, 2019 16:59:00 GMT 1
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Post by rastrick32 on Dec 17, 2019 18:29:19 GMT 1
They're not thick at all. Trouble is, its hard to truly act / stand up to something you don't believe in. They are instead trying to be clever and formally sanitise racism in their league. The league and its clubs value / are more concerned over the white, male dominated ultra's influence on football more than they value equality - most clubs are dependent on the income from such a loyal fanbase and fear the repercussions of their own 'fans' in a country that still holds a favourable assessment of Mussolini and nationalism (read about CasaPound et al). Their parliament is dominated by right-wing parties, including MS5 (both president and prime minister I think). Hence the mandate; don't alienate/provoke the Ultra's. Instead try and use the perspective of the ultra's, that it's not racism to chant like a monkey at black players - this is instead a form of endearment or simple provocation, depending on your perspective, and people are too sensitive / 'it's political correctness gone mad' (the go to response for gammon the world over). There's been a lot already this season to support this and FIFA have done very little to curb it. It won't be too long until this gets rolled out here by some prick(s) as a valid excuse. Why aren't more people 'liking' this post? It is absolutely spot on and explained clearly and intelligently. This scourge will not be under control until the governing bodies take real action. Expel clubs from leagues and tournaments. Massive, massive fines. Close stadia for months. If it continues at club level, go after the fucking national teams. Run these disgusting fuckers out of town. Will that happen... |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 17, 2019 18:57:36 GMT 1
They're not thick at all. Trouble is, its hard to truly act / stand up to something you don't believe in. They are instead trying to be clever and formally sanitise racism in their league. The league and its clubs value / are more concerned over the white, male dominated ultra's influence on football more than they value equality - most clubs are dependent on the income from such a loyal fanbase and fear the repercussions of their own 'fans' in a country that still holds a favourable assessment of Mussolini and nationalism (read about CasaPound et al). Their parliament is dominated by right-wing parties, including MS5 (both president and prime minister I think). Hence the mandate; don't alienate/provoke the Ultra's. Instead try and use the perspective of the ultra's, that it's not racism to chant like a monkey at black players - this is instead a form of endearment or simple provocation, depending on your perspective, and people are too sensitive / 'it's political correctness gone mad' (the go to response for gammon the world over). There's been a lot already this season to support this and FIFA have done very little to curb it. It won't be too long until this gets rolled out here by some prick(s) as a valid excuse. Why aren't more people 'liking' this post? It is absolutely spot on and explained clearly and intelligently. This scourge will not be under control until the governing bodies take real action. Expel clubs from leagues and tournaments. Massive, massive fines. Close stadia for months. If it continues at club level, go after the fucking national teams. Run these disgusting fuckers out of town. Will that happen... Because its misses the obvious fact that Italy is, as a nation significantly more racist than some people who live in the dream world that we are the worst, believe. No surprise given the growth of nationalism across Europe and if you are shocked by it, you have had your head up your bum for some time. We have the occasional fuckwit or two and it fills the media and spokes people are trundled out and hand wringing to some tune goes on, whilst EUEFA living in the real world duck the fucking issue abroad allowing just us to beat ourselves up... The desire to clean up the country and sport from racism is ours alone, unfortunately the money abroad as a whole in football, will continue to see us doing it mostly alone. |
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Post by 28901 on Dec 17, 2019 18:59:27 GMT 1
They're not thick at all. Trouble is, its hard to truly act / stand up to something you don't believe in. They are instead trying to be clever and formally sanitise racism in their league. The league and its clubs value / are more concerned over the white, male dominated ultra's influence on football more than they value equality - most clubs are dependent on the income from such a loyal fanbase and fear the repercussions of their own 'fans' in a country that still holds a favourable assessment of Mussolini and nationalism (read about CasaPound et al). Their parliament is dominated by right-wing parties, including MS5 (both president and prime minister I think). Hence the mandate; don't alienate/provoke the Ultra's. Instead try and use the perspective of the ultra's, that it's not racism to chant like a monkey at black players - this is instead a form of endearment or simple provocation, depending on your perspective, and people are too sensitive / 'it's political correctness gone mad' (the go to response for gammon the world over). There's been a lot already this season to support this and FIFA have done very little to curb it. It won't be too long until this gets rolled out here by some prick(s) as a valid excuse. ? It is absolutely spot on and explained clearly and intelligently. This scourge will not be under control until the governing bodies take real action. Expel clubs from leagues and tournaments. Massive, massive fines. Close stadia for months. If it continues at club level, go after the fucking national teams. Run these disgusting fuckers out of town. Will that happen... Do you really need me to answer that? |
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Post by rastrick32 on Dec 17, 2019 19:29:34 GMT 1
Why aren't more people 'liking' this post? It is absolutely spot on and explained clearly and intelligently. This scourge will not be under control until the governing bodies take real action. Expel clubs from leagues and tournaments. Massive, massive fines. Close stadia for months. If it continues at club level, go after the fucking national teams. Run these disgusting fuckers out of town. Will that happen... Do you really need me to answer that? Yes, please do. Am I missing something? |
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Post by rastrick32 on Dec 17, 2019 19:36:14 GMT 1
Why aren't more people 'liking' this post? It is absolutely spot on and explained clearly and intelligently. This scourge will not be under control until the governing bodies take real action. Expel clubs from leagues and tournaments. Massive, massive fines. Close stadia for months. If it continues at club level, go after the fucking national teams. Run these disgusting fuckers out of town. Will that happen... Because its misses the obvious fact that Italy is, as a nation significantly more racist than some people who live in the dream world that we are the worst, believe. No surprise given the growth of nationalism across Europe and if you are shocked by it, you have had your head up your bum for some time. We have the occasional fuckwit or two and it fills the media and spokes people are trundled out and hand wringing to some tune goes on, whilst EUEFA living in the real world duck the fucking issue abroad allowing just us to beat ourselves up... The desire to clean up the country and sport from racism is ours alone, unfortunately the money abroad as a whole in football, will continue to see us doing it mostly alone. I think you miss my point. Just because Italy is historically nationalist, you think that we should expect FIFA and/or UEFA to treat them differently? Really? Is that what you are trying to say? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 17, 2019 19:42:39 GMT 1
They're not thick at all. Trouble is, its hard to truly act / stand up to something you don't believe in. They are instead trying to be clever and formally sanitise racism in their league. The league and its clubs value / are more concerned over the white, male dominated ultra's influence on football more than they value equality - most clubs are dependent on the income from such a loyal fanbase and fear the repercussions of their own 'fans' in a country that still holds a favourable assessment of Mussolini and nationalism (read about CasaPound et al). Their parliament is dominated by right-wing parties, including MS5 (both president and prime minister I think). Hence the mandate; don't alienate/provoke the Ultra's. Instead try and use the perspective of the ultra's, that it's not racism to chant like a monkey at black players - this is instead a form of endearment or simple provocation, depending on your perspective, and people are too sensitive / 'it's political correctness gone mad' (the go to response for gammon the world over). There's been a lot already this season to support this and FIFA have done very little to curb it. It won't be too long until this gets rolled out here by some prick(s) as a valid excuse. I think thats certainly true of the clubs. Only been to italy once to watch football for an AC Milan v Juventus game and it was patently obvious that the ultras ran a lot of the organisation of the game. They had their huge section of the stadium behind the goal and fundamentally they were left to control it. No stewards or police to speak of, No rules as far as what we consider rules, ie standing in gangways, sticking to allocated seats or even sections. Loads of drugs being taken everywhere, huge fireworks going off, missiles. etc... The clubs are shit scared of their ultras fanbase. But this was La Liga itself. The actual league so not sure they should be so submissive to any group of fans. Couldn;t believe that story when I saw it. Its like some piss take of what goes on in Italy.. only it isn;t a piss take. I don;t know whether theyre trying to do the right thing, and are just abysmally inept at it, or they are actually just deliberately sticking two fingers up at any concept of anti-racism. |
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Post by El Mel on Dec 17, 2019 19:55:08 GMT 1
Racist, spaghetti chompin' surrrender monkeys.
Can I say monkeys?
Seriously, I saw this yesterday and couldn't believe the graphics they were using.
It's disgustingly disrespectful/.
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Post by Porrohman on Dec 17, 2019 20:00:23 GMT 1
Why aren't more people 'liking' this post? It is absolutely spot on and explained clearly and intelligently. This scourge will not be under control until the governing bodies take real action. Expel clubs from leagues and tournaments. Massive, massive fines. Close stadia for months. If it continues at club level, go after the fucking national teams. Run these disgusting fuckers out of town. Will that happen... Because its misses the obvious fact that Italy is, as a nation significantly more racist than some people who live in the dream world that we are the worst, believe. No surprise given the growth of nationalism across Europe and if you are shocked by it, you have had your head up your bum for some time. We have the occasional fuckwit or two and it fills the media and spokes people are trundled out and hand wringing to some tune goes on, whilst EUEFA living in the real world duck the fucking issue abroad allowing just us to beat ourselves up... The desire to clean up the country and sport from racism is ours alone, unfortunately the money abroad as a whole in football, will continue to see us doing it mostly alone. Unfortunately it'll start growing again over here now this lot have gained a proper majority |
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Tiro
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,981
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Post by Tiro on Dec 17, 2019 20:01:33 GMT 1
They're not thick at all. Trouble is, its hard to truly act / stand up to something you don't believe in. They are instead trying to be clever and formally sanitise racism in their league. The league and its clubs value / are more concerned over the white, male dominated ultra's influence on football more than they value equality - most clubs are dependent on the income from such a loyal fanbase and fear the repercussions of their own 'fans' in a country that still holds a favourable assessment of Mussolini and nationalism (read about CasaPound et al). Their parliament is dominated by right-wing parties, including MS5 (both president and prime minister I think). Hence the mandate; don't alienate/provoke the Ultra's. Instead try and use the perspective of the ultra's, that it's not racism to chant like a monkey at black players - this is instead a form of endearment or simple provocation, depending on your perspective, and people are too sensitive / 'it's political correctness gone mad' (the go to response for gammon the world over). There's been a lot already this season to support this and FIFA have done very little to curb it. It won't be too long until this gets rolled out here by some prick(s) as a valid excuse. I think thats certainly true of the clubs. Only been to italy once to watch football for an AC Milan v Juventus game and it was patently obvious that the ultras ran a lot of the organisation of the game. They had their huge section of the stadium behind the goal and fundamentally they were left to control it. No stewards or police to speak of, No rules as far as what we consider rules, ie standing in gangways, sticking to allocated seats or even sections. Loads of drugs being taken everywhere, huge fireworks going off, missiles. etc... The clubs are shit scared of their ultras fanbase. But this was La Liga itself. The actual league so not sure they should be so submissive to any group of fans. Couldn;t believe that story when I saw it. Its like some piss take of what goes on in Italy.. only it isn;t a piss take. I don;t know whether theyre trying to do the right thing, and are just abysmally inept at it, or they are actually just deliberately sticking two fingers up at any concept of anti-racism. There is, sadly an awful lot of substance to support my earlier comments - too much to list. Of note and most recently, Ultras of Inter, Verona and Cagliari all spoke out in defence of their racism, even at the behest of supporting their own players! This has been widely accepted and endorsed throughout the Italian fan base, with seemingly sworn enemies standing in support of other Ultra groups. Owners too have supported those in the stands instead of the players. Typical excuses range from the usual 'It could have seemed racist to you but it is not like that’ and 'In Italy we use some “ways” only to help our teams’ to 'our political extremism is more pose than belief' and 'it's gimmick to bug the squares' the latter taken from an article on the FT. Players have also voiced their support, markedly Di Canio and Chiellini who as club captain, defended the abuse of the opposition fans aimed at his own player. But the Ultra's grasp on football in Italy is vast and dangerous and shouldn't be underestimated - this is why the league fails to act appropriately and doesn't want to upset the Ultra's because when in unison (as they are on this matter) they are powerful, with most explicitly political (there are at least 40 groups that openly affiliate with far-right groups). There are also many, many links to organised crime and mafia. |
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Post by DuncanShearer on Dec 17, 2019 20:02:44 GMT 1
I was watching Sky Sports News broadcast this story earlier, and it somehow felt like I was watching Chris Morris’s “Brass Eye” program from the 90’s.
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Tiro
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,981
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Post by Tiro on Dec 17, 2019 20:30:58 GMT 1
Why aren't more people 'liking' this post? It is absolutely spot on and explained clearly and intelligently. This scourge will not be under control until the governing bodies take real action. Expel clubs from leagues and tournaments. Massive, massive fines. Close stadia for months. If it continues at club level, go after the fucking national teams. Run these disgusting fuckers out of town. Will that happen... Because its misses the obvious fact that Italy is, as a nation significantly more racist than some people who live in the dream world that we are the worst, believe. No surprise given the growth of nationalism across Europe and if you are shocked by it, you have had your head up your bum for some time. We have the occasional fuckwit or two and it fills the media and spokes people are trundled out and hand wringing to some tune goes on, whilst EUEFA living in the real world duck the fucking issue abroad allowing just us to beat ourselves up... The desire to clean up the country and sport from racism is ours alone, unfortunately the money abroad as a whole in football, will continue to see us doing it mostly aloneement otherwise, e. I don't think I've missed that point, have I? I reference a right of centre government and Mussolini, it doesn't take much to read between the lines, but largely focused on the football aspect given the topic. I was going to reference the Lazio fans' tribute to Mussolini at a game, but wanted to speak generically as I can't so can't say all Ultra groups are fans of his and I was providing a possible answer to as to why the league have done what they have. I think we're pretty much in agreement otherwise. I wouldn't say the Italians stand alone however. Nor do I think we do in trying to 'kick it out'. Plenty to support this too. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 17, 2019 20:38:18 GMT 1
Because its misses the obvious fact that Italy is, as a nation significantly more racist than some people who live in the dream world that we are the worst, believe. No surprise given the growth of nationalism across Europe and if you are shocked by it, you have had your head up your bum for some time. We have the occasional fuckwit or two and it fills the media and spokes people are trundled out and hand wringing to some tune goes on, whilst EUEFA living in the real world duck the fucking issue abroad allowing just us to beat ourselves up... The desire to clean up the country and sport from racism is ours alone, unfortunately the money abroad as a whole in football, will continue to see us doing it mostly alone. Unfortunately it'll start growing again over here now this lot have gained a proper majority You mistake 300 odd people as being some sort of example of millions who voted for one party. Likewise the huge majority of labour voters are not anti semite. 600 odd people kept the arguments and uncertainty going for years, they were obviously not representative either.. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 17, 2019 20:47:31 GMT 1
Because its misses the obvious fact that Italy is, as a nation significantly more racist than some people who live in the dream world that we are the worst, believe. No surprise given the growth of nationalism across Europe and if you are shocked by it, you have had your head up your bum for some time. We have the occasional fuckwit or two and it fills the media and spokes people are trundled out and hand wringing to some tune goes on, whilst EUEFA living in the real world duck the fucking issue abroad allowing just us to beat ourselves up... The desire to clean up the country and sport from racism is ours alone, unfortunately the money abroad as a whole in football, will continue to see us doing it mostly alone. I think you miss my point. Just because Italy is historically nationalist, you think that we should expect FIFA and/or UEFA to treat them differently? Really? Is that what you are trying to say? Read it again. The authorities will allow us to do whatever we like with our attempts to remove racism, we will still be paying in. Italy and others will be told off but again will be allowed to carry on what they are doing or not doing regards racism, they will still be paying in. The football authorities are aware of the different power that anti racism groups hold in the various countries and the different governments/media powers or indeed desire to take on the racist behaviour. Because we all wince and shake our heads in disbelief here over these incidents, it isn't anything like the same elsewhere. |
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Post by Porrohman on Dec 17, 2019 21:31:19 GMT 1
Unfortunately it'll start growing again over here now this lot have gained a proper majority You mistake 300 odd people as being some sort of example of millions who voted for one party. Likewise the huge majority of labour voters are not anti semite. 600 odd people kept the arguments and uncertainty going for years, they were obviously not representative either.. What 300 odd people ? An unapologetically racist PM of a party moving further to the right and more and more reports of people getting abused for the colour of their skin since the election don't make the future look bright. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 17, 2019 21:49:46 GMT 1
Centre right as they always are.
Only one of the main parties has moved itself into the realms of extremism ( the left in this case ). If they have any sense they'll swiftly move themsevles back to the centre.
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Mav
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 754 
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Post by Mav on Dec 17, 2019 21:59:54 GMT 1
Because its misses the obvious fact that Italy is, as a nation significantly more racist than some people who live in the dream world that we are the worst, believe. No surprise given the growth of nationalism across Europe and if you are shocked by it, you have had your head up your bum for some time. We have the occasional fuckwit or two and it fills the media and spokes people are trundled out and hand wringing to some tune goes on, whilst EUEFA living in the real world duck the fucking issue abroad allowing just us to beat ourselves up... The desire to clean up the country and sport from racism is ours alone, unfortunately the money abroad as a whole in football, will continue to see us doing it mostly alone. I think you miss my point. Just because Italy is historically nationalist, you think that we should expect FIFA and/or UEFA to treat them differently? Really? Is that what you are trying to say? Historically cowards too Rastrick. You make good points and I think the other poster was saying the reason no one liked the OP was possibly because racism is rife everywhere including on here?? Got to say I totally disagree if that’s the point being made. The ‘ Artwork’ is frikkin disgusting and Seria A knew what they were doing. |
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Tiro
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,981
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Post by Tiro on Dec 17, 2019 22:12:49 GMT 1
I think you miss my point. Just because Italy is historically nationalist, you think that we should expect FIFA and/or UEFA to treat them differently? Really? Is that what you are trying to say? Historically cowards too Rastrick. You make good points and I think the other poster was saying the reason no one liked the OP was possibly because racism is rife everywhere including on here?? Got to say I totally disagree if that’s the point being made. The ‘ Artwork’ is frikkin disgusting and Seria A knew what they were doing. By ‘here’ I meant the UK, just for context - apologies for the misunderstanding, If that is what you’re referring to? And I’m not saying it’s rife in the UK, but those minorities will turn to such an excuse if the authorities in Italy are so lenient...is also what I meant. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 17, 2019 22:19:13 GMT 1
You mistake 300 odd people as being some sort of example of millions who voted for one party. Likewise the huge majority of labour voters are not anti semite. 600 odd people kept the arguments and uncertainty going for years, they were obviously not representative either.. What 300 odd people ? An unapologetically racist PM of a party moving further to the right and more and more reports of people getting abused for the colour of their skin since the election don't make the future look bright. The multi racial future of this country looks as difficult as it did the day before the election, the returning of a tory or labour government was immaterial given the ugly parts of both parties senior members??? The colour of your skin is not the only target of difference, some would really like it to be ... I think the majority of british people will refrain from taking on the bad influences of the nasty ones in parliament. Were you really expecting a labour government to be any better? They would merely be different in their bigotry? |
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Mav
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 754
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Post by Mav on Dec 17, 2019 22:26:18 GMT 1
Historically cowards too Rastrick. You make good points and I think the other poster was saying the reason no one liked the OP was possibly because racism is rife everywhere including on here?? Got to say I totally disagree if that’s the point being made. The ‘ Artwork’ is frikkin disgusting and Seria A knew what they were doing. By ‘here’ I meant the UK, just for context - apologies for the misunderstanding, If that is what you’re referring to? And I’m not saying it’s rife in the UK, but those minorities will turn to such an excuse if the authorities in Italy are so lenient...is also what I meant. Not you mate.... was referring to 28901’s post. Apologies. |
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