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Post by galpharm2400 on Jun 23, 2020 13:23:06 GMT 1
He's a wily old fox, if he upsets anyone it will be people he doesn't need in the short term. I dont think any manager (bar Jan) would be daft enough to come in and piss almost all of the squad off! Sadder that we didnt have enough men in the team to take the bollockings and admit they were under performing to some tune?? Can I just add that I dont think for a minute we would have stayed up but we owed it to ourselves to go down fighting and might well have avoided the doom laden start to this season, which is still hanging about like a bad smell..
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Yuta be a terrier
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Yuta be a terrier on Jun 23, 2020 13:24:57 GMT 1
You know what lads maybe the players might actually have to pull their fingers out and EARN survival. 10 points from here on in. Safe with 2 games to spare UTT
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iangreaves
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[M0:0]
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Post by iangreaves on Jun 23, 2020 13:39:30 GMT 1
That's Boro safe.
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Mav
Tom Cowan Terrier
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Post by Mav on Jun 23, 2020 13:52:58 GMT 1
It’s down to us if we survive or not.
Nothing to do with Colin.
Poor attitudes lads. Hope the players aren’t shitting themselves like some of you lot.
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Post by Mastercracker on Jun 23, 2020 13:56:34 GMT 1
I'm not calling for the Cowleys' heads just yet. They inherited a squad of players whose heart was not in it, and many of them are still here. Changing manager will achieve nothing - the players are the biggest problem we have. The Wigan performance (more so than the result) is worrying. And in all honesty I think we're more likely to go down than not. But changing the manager is not going to alter that. If we stay up, maybe see whether the Cowleys have it in them to turn it around for next season & give us a solid season in the championship. If we go down, can they realistically get us back up at the first attempt? If not, ship them out and give somebody else a go. Who that would be though, I don't know. Would changing manager not help though? My real worry is there's just no style. We aren't keeping it tight at the back, we aren't trying to play a counter attack, we aren't really trying a passing game, we aren't playing a pressing game and we aren't overloading down the wings. What exactly is the game plan? PH spoke of "high press, passing through the thirds" in his interview on sunday. Well that's 2016/17, and that absolutely isn't what we do now. Whether that's the goal or not I don't know but it absolutely hasn't been our method yet.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 14:00:27 GMT 1
Makes it harder for us - Warncok always gets more out of his players so expect Boro to pick up in the remaining games they will know he is there that's for sure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2020 14:01:54 GMT 1
It’s down to us if we survive or not. Nothing to do with Colin. Poor attitudes lads. Hope the players aren’t shitting themselves like some of you lot. [/quoteits what we]you not boro are any one else
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Post by ruggedivy on Jun 23, 2020 14:03:34 GMT 1
That’s the move that we should of made... 🤦🏼♂️ No it isn't. Well we’ll find who is right in 8 games time...
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Post by Porrohman on Jun 23, 2020 14:37:03 GMT 1
It’s down to us if we survive or not. Nothing to do with Colin. Poor attitudes lads. Hope the players aren’t shitting themselves like some of you lot. Well they were on Saturday, why should now be different
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rocky
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by rocky on Jun 23, 2020 14:55:26 GMT 1
Well, this thread's a bundle of joy!
Must be 90% saying we're fucked. We may well be, but Middlesbrough are taking a gamble and who knows, it might not go the way that the majority expect on here.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jun 23, 2020 15:52:07 GMT 1
Well, this thread's a bundle of joy! Must be 90% saying we're fucked. We may well be, but Middlesbrough are taking a gamble and who knows, it might not go the way that the majority expect on here. We need to win 3 games and draw one or perhaps 2. Middlesborough can then fuck off and be doing their own thing.. Warnock will have nothing to do with our staying up other than points gained/ lost versus Hull..
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Post by rastrick32 on Jun 23, 2020 17:44:43 GMT 1
Would changing manager not help though? My real worry is there's just no style. We aren't keeping it tight at the back, we aren't trying to play a counter attack, we aren't really trying a passing game, we aren't playing a pressing game and we aren't overloading down the wings. What exactly is the game plan? PH spoke of "high press, passing through the thirds" in his interview on sunday. Well that's 2016/17, and that absolutely isn't what we do now. Whether that's the goal or not I don't know but it absolutely hasn't been our method yet. And that's the crux of our playing problem. We don't know what we are. Zero identity. A load of individuals who have somehow found themselves in the same team. We a hotchpotch of a team, put together reactively rather than strategically. And that is why we are struggling. Oh, and we have got fuck all pace anywhere on the pitch.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 23, 2020 17:58:17 GMT 1
I'm not calling for the Cowleys' heads just yet. They inherited a squad of players whose heart was not in it, and many of them are still here. Changing manager will achieve nothing - the players are the biggest problem we have. The Wigan performance (more so than the result) is worrying. And in all honesty I think we're more likely to go down than not. But changing the manager is not going to alter that. If we stay up, maybe see whether the Cowleys have it in them to turn it around for next season & give us a solid season in the championship. If we go down, can they realistically get us back up at the first attempt? If not, ship them out and give somebody else a go. Who that would be though, I don't know. Would changing manager not help though? My real worry is there's just no style. We aren't keeping it tight at the back, we aren't trying to play a counter attack, we aren't really trying a passing game, we aren't playing a pressing game and we aren't overloading down the wings. What exactly is the game plan? 8 games to go, who would you have to produce an instant impact? Wigan was worrying. Not specifically because we lost, but because of the manner in which we lost, after a lay-off - but it was one game. How many of us were calling for the Cowleys' heads this time last week? I think it's too late for anyone to come in & have an immediate impact that will give us a better chance of keeping us up than Cowleys. However, if there's no improvement in the next 2 games I might be tempted to look elsewhere just to give the new manager a proper look at the squad before the close season (regardless of which division we're in next year).
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 23, 2020 18:07:20 GMT 1
Well, this thread's a bundle of joy! Must be 90% saying we're fucked. We may well be, but Middlesbrough are taking a gamble and who knows, it might not go the way that the majority expect on here. An underachieving squad in freefall. Just appointed a manager with a (deserved) reputation for being a great man manager. It ain't going to get worse for them.
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Post by rastrick32 on Jun 23, 2020 18:21:22 GMT 1
Would changing manager not help though? My real worry is there's just no style. We aren't keeping it tight at the back, we aren't trying to play a counter attack, we aren't really trying a passing game, we aren't playing a pressing game and we aren't overloading down the wings. What exactly is the game plan? 8 games to go, who would you have to produce an instant impact? Wigan was worrying. Not specifically because we lost, but because of the manner in which we lost, after a lay-off - but it was one game. How many of us were calling for the Cowleys' heads this time last week? I think it's too late for anyone to come in & have an immediate impact that will give us a better chance of keeping us up than Cowleys. However, if there's no improvement in the next 2 games I might be tempted to look elsewhere just to give the new manager a proper look at the squad before the close season (regardless of which division we're in next year). I've just had a grumble about our identity and obviously the Cowley's are part of that problem. I do have some sympathy for them as they haven't had any real time to build their own squad. Saying that, I would like to see 'their' style, whatever that is, because at the moment, we seem to be a bit rudderless.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 23, 2020 18:28:04 GMT 1
8 games to go, who would you have to produce an instant impact? Wigan was worrying. Not specifically because we lost, but because of the manner in which we lost, after a lay-off - but it was one game. How many of us were calling for the Cowleys' heads this time last week? I think it's too late for anyone to come in & have an immediate impact that will give us a better chance of keeping us up than Cowleys. However, if there's no improvement in the next 2 games I might be tempted to look elsewhere just to give the new manager a proper look at the squad before the close season (regardless of which division we're in next year). I've just had a grumble about our identity and obviously the Cowley's are part of that problem. I do have some sympathy for them as they haven't had any real time to build their own squad. Saying that, I would like to see 'their' style, whatever that is, because at the moment, we seem to be a bit rudderless. Where I have sympathy is exactly that. Their goal has to simply be to stay up. Which means sacrificing some long term planning in order to deal with the here & now. Next season - they have a pre-season. Contracts ending & more of their players in. A better chance to implement their style over the summer. A better time to judge a promising managerial pairing. I'm hoping Wigan was a blip.
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Post by haveitback on Jun 23, 2020 18:47:39 GMT 1
8 games to go, who would you have to produce an instant impact? Wigan was worrying. Not specifically because we lost, but because of the manner in which we lost, after a lay-off - but it was one game. How many of us were calling for the Cowleys' heads this time last week? I think it's too late for anyone to come in & have an immediate impact that will give us a better chance of keeping us up than Cowleys. However, if there's no improvement in the next 2 games I might be tempted to look elsewhere just to give the new manager a proper look at the squad before the close season (regardless of which division we're in next year). I've just had a grumble about our identity and obviously the Cowley's are part of that problem. I do have some sympathy for them as they haven't had any real time to build their own squad. Saying that, I would like to see 'their' style, whatever that is, because at the moment, we seem to be a bit rudderless. If we go down we will prob be at the Cowleys level for management imo, More worryingly is we don’t seem to have a plan, Other than relegation and as crazy as that sounds it could be what PH wants, in theory the loss of income from dropping a division would sound nuts but when you look at where we are, Cowleys = league One level, if rumours are true then the parachute payments go to Hoyle for the purchase which is restrictive in itself, The pandemic has had a financial impact on the club like every other club, But can PH absorb that cost, Season Tkt sales will prob be massively lower even if we don’t get relegated and by been relegated this would encourage players to leave in a market which we would struggle to sell them in, if we stay up. All my opinion of course and in a normal season and circumstances I just couldn’t imagine it, But with the way things are maybe the club is looking for a real and full reset.
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Post by bluestripe on Jun 23, 2020 19:11:50 GMT 1
Well we’ll find who is right in 8 games time... Like most people on this thread, I have great respect for the results that Warnock gets. And yes, if we were looking for a manager right at this minute in our position, then he would be the best option to see us to safety. He is just Red Adair these days. Not a credible option for a 2 to 3 season plan which follows, rather than rips to pieces, the approach taken in the Wagner era.
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Post by andyeastleake on Jun 23, 2020 20:12:39 GMT 1
It’s down to us if we survive or not. Nothing to do with Colin. Poor attitudes lads. Hope the players aren’t shitting themselves like some of you lot. I'm surprised at the reception to this news... ....but even more surprised about your post. I'm not worried at all about whether or not the players are shitting themselves. I'm worried that on Saturday they looked like they simply didn't give a shit. Shitting themselves would be an improvement as it would demonstrate they cared.
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Post by impact on Jun 23, 2020 20:27:21 GMT 1
Would changing manager not help though? My real worry is there's just no style. We aren't keeping it tight at the back, we aren't trying to play a counter attack, we aren't really trying a passing game, we aren't playing a pressing game and we aren't overloading down the wings. What exactly is the game plan? 8 games to go, who would you have to produce an instant impact? Wigan was worrying. Not specifically because we lost, but because of the manner in which we lost, after a lay-off - but it was one game. How many of us were calling for the Cowleys' heads this time last week? I think it's too late for anyone to come in & have an immediate impact that will give us a better chance of keeping us up than Cowleys. However, if there's no improvement in the next 2 games I might be tempted to look elsewhere just to give the new manager a proper look at the squad before the close season (regardless of which division we're in next year). I don't want a new manager in, not this season. We will never become stable again if we go back to the cycle of sacking managers every year or less. I was directly replying to you saying a new man wouldn't make an impact. I really think it would. You say it's 1 game but it isn't. Some of our performances this year have been our worst for a long time. In 2020 think Cardiff home, where the stadium was all but empty after 70 mins, Stoke home, Barnsley away and more recently Leeds away. Then before the turn of the year Boro away. It wasn't that we lost these games it was how we lost. We barely threatened and had no idea how we were supposed to be playing, and weren't anywhere close to being solid at the back. We were better away at Bristol than in all those games when we had the infamous "good men" rant. At least at Bristol we looked like we knew what we wanted to do, even if our defending was horrendous. I also even think of some of the wins where we have just played out the 1st half and attacked 2nd half. That seemed to happen a lot. Its great when you don't concede, but a 1st half goal totally scuppers any plan. It feels quite lower-leaguey to me where players aren't as clinical and you can get away with it. When you think of the guys who often come into firefight - particularly Allardyce and Warnock - they come in and change everything. They start by getting a shape in defence then usually look for goals from set pieces and counter attacks. The players all know their roles which are fairly simple and invariably results pick up. That's why I think a new manager would have an impact.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jun 23, 2020 20:39:54 GMT 1
I'm not calling for the Cowleys' heads just yet. They inherited a squad of players whose heart was not in it, and many of them are still here. Changing manager will achieve nothing - the players are the biggest problem we have. The Wigan performance (more so than the result) is worrying. And in all honesty I think we're more likely to go down than not. But changing the manager is not going to alter that. If we stay up, maybe see whether the Cowleys have it in them to turn it around for next season & give us a solid season in the championship. If we go down, can they realistically get us back up at the first attempt? If not, ship them out and give somebody else a go. Who that would be though, I don't know. I'll be honest, I put a bet on us going down, as 10-1 was far too long. At the same time, I don't think we're more likely to go down at all. If you think that, we're still 5-1.
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Post by space hardware on Jun 23, 2020 20:59:37 GMT 1
I'm not calling for the Cowleys' heads just yet. They inherited a squad of players whose heart was not in it, and many of them are still here. Changing manager will achieve nothing - the players are the biggest problem we have. The Wigan performance (more so than the result) is worrying. And in all honesty I think we're more likely to go down than not. But changing the manager is not going to alter that. If we stay up, maybe see whether the Cowleys have it in them to turn it around for next season & give us a solid season in the championship. If we go down, can they realistically get us back up at the first attempt? If not, ship them out and give somebody else a go. Who that would be though, I don't know. I'll be honest, I put a bet on us going down, as 10-1 was far too long. At the same time, I don't think we're more likely to go down at all. If you think that, we're still 5-1. You shithouse*... * I did the same but only got 8s 🙈
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Post by melbourneterrier on Jun 24, 2020 0:17:07 GMT 1
Not sure that Warnock, at 71, with about 7 months out of the game is the messiah everyones making him out to be. YET, surely he will do a better job than Woodgate was doing with them.
This smells like trouble for us....
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Jun 24, 2020 11:39:33 GMT 1
My Boro supporting mate has just texted me a quote from Warnock. “I’m looking forward to playing games where I’m not been booed all the time”.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jun 24, 2020 13:09:44 GMT 1
Under the current lockdown rules, is the 71 year old Warnock allowed to travel from his home in Devon all the way to Middlesbrough? Maybe we should start a national witch hunt to get his appointment overturned
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Jun 24, 2020 13:38:28 GMT 1
8 games to go, who would you have to produce an instant impact? Wigan was worrying. Not specifically because we lost, but because of the manner in which we lost, after a lay-off - but it was one game. How many of us were calling for the Cowleys' heads this time last week? I think it's too late for anyone to come in & have an immediate impact that will give us a better chance of keeping us up than Cowleys. However, if there's no improvement in the next 2 games I might be tempted to look elsewhere just to give the new manager a proper look at the squad before the close season (regardless of which division we're in next year). I don't want a new manager in, not this season. We will never become stable again if we go back to the cycle of sacking managers every year or less. I was directly replying to you saying a new man wouldn't make an impact. I really think it would. You say it's 1 game but it isn't. Some of our performances this year have been our worst for a long time. In 2020 think Cardiff home, where the stadium was all but empty after 70 mins, Stoke home, Barnsley away and more recently Leeds away. Then before the turn of the year Boro away. It wasn't that we lost these games it was how we lost. We barely threatened and had no idea how we were supposed to be playing, and weren't anywhere close to being solid at the back. We were better away at Bristol than in all those games when we had the infamous "good men" rant. At least at Bristol we looked like we knew what we wanted to do, even if our defending was horrendous. I also even think of some of the wins where we have just played out the 1st half and attacked 2nd half. That seemed to happen a lot. Its great when you don't concede, but a 1st half goal totally scuppers any plan. It feels quite lower-leaguey to me where players aren't as clinical and you can get away with it. When you think of the guys who often come into firefight - particularly Allardyce and Warnock - they come in and change everything. They start by getting a shape in defence then usually look for goals from set pieces and counter attacks. The players all know their roles which are fairly simple and invariably results pick up. That's why I think a new manager would have an impact. Broadly then, I think we're in agreement that it's too soon to pull the trigger on Cowleys. PH talking about high press is possibly something I've clung on to a bit too much but my thinking is that Cowleys want to do that, but it needs players fit enough and drilled enough, and a close season might give a better chance of doing that, rather than the squad they inherited that was blowing out of their arses shortly after half time. Fresh start next season and all that. Of course, at the start of this season I also advocated giving Jan a chance to benefit from the fruits of having effectively had a 7 month pre-season, so what do I know?
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Post by lochnessterrier on Jun 24, 2020 13:46:11 GMT 1
Well we’ll find who is right in 8 games time... I don't need to wait 8 games. We have a good young manager with an excellent track record so far. I'm not prepared to dump him after a few bad results, in favour of a guy who will drop us like a stone as soon as a better offer comes along.
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Post by clayts on Jun 24, 2020 13:48:54 GMT 1
I don't want a new manager in, not this season. We will never become stable again if we go back to the cycle of sacking managers every year or less. I was directly replying to you saying a new man wouldn't make an impact. I really think it would. You say it's 1 game but it isn't. Some of our performances this year have been our worst for a long time. In 2020 think Cardiff home, where the stadium was all but empty after 70 mins, Stoke home, Barnsley away and more recently Leeds away. Then before the turn of the year Boro away. It wasn't that we lost these games it was how we lost. We barely threatened and had no idea how we were supposed to be playing, and weren't anywhere close to being solid at the back. We were better away at Bristol than in all those games when we had the infamous "good men" rant. At least at Bristol we looked like we knew what we wanted to do, even if our defending was horrendous. I also even think of some of the wins where we have just played out the 1st half and attacked 2nd half. That seemed to happen a lot. Its great when you don't concede, but a 1st half goal totally scuppers any plan. It feels quite lower-leaguey to me where players aren't as clinical and you can get away with it. When you think of the guys who often come into firefight - particularly Allardyce and Warnock - they come in and change everything. They start by getting a shape in defence then usually look for goals from set pieces and counter attacks. The players all know their roles which are fairly simple and invariably results pick up. That's why I think a new manager would have an impact. Broadly then, I think we're in agreement that it's too soon to pull the trigger on Cowleys. PH talking about high press is possibly something I've clung on to a bit too much but my thinking is that Cowleys want to do that, but it needs players fit enough and drilled enough, and a close season might give a better chance of doing that, rather than the squad they inherited that was blowing out of their arses shortly after half time. Fresh start next season and all that. Of course, at the start of this season I also advocated giving Jan a chance to benefit from the fruits of having effectively had a 7 month pre-season, so what do I know? That is laughable, we do anything but press under Cowley, we never close players down and constantly let the opposition get their crosses into the box. And don't get me started on marking at set pieces, do they even bother practising in training?
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Post by ruggedivy on Jun 24, 2020 14:09:49 GMT 1
Well we’ll find who is right in 8 games time... I don't need to wait 8 games. We have a good young manager with an excellent track record so far. I'm not prepared to dump him after a few bad results, in favour of a guy who will drop us like a stone as soon as a better offer comes along. I admire your loyalty to the Cowley’s. IMO the jury is still out on their abilities at this level. If we do go down, I imagine it will be along time before they return to the Championship (if ever). My loyalty is towards the club and I believe it would be catastrophic if we were to be relegated this season. Hence my support for a former manger who’s credentials are unrivalled at this level.
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Post by lochnessterrier on Jun 24, 2020 16:19:59 GMT 1
I don't need to wait 8 games. We have a good young manager with an excellent track record so far. I'm not prepared to dump him after a few bad results, in favour of a guy who will drop us like a stone as soon as a better offer comes along. I admire your loyalty to the Cowley’s. IMO the jury is still out on their abilities at this level. If we do go down, I imagine it will be along time before they return to the Championship (if ever). My loyalty is towards the club and I believe it would be catastrophic if we were to be relegated this season. Hence my support for a former manger who’s credentials are unrivalled at this level. And I admire your loyalty to a former manager but always look forward, never look back.
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