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Post by bluesandtwos on Jul 12, 2020 11:15:56 GMT 1
Where did this identify nonsense come from ... some German bloke who got lucky and buggered off at the first opportunity.?.. let’s get mr negative back after he’s sacked from turning another club into a non scoring fiasco..l... bring back jacko Wagner gave us an identity, a clear identity that everyone bought into. Everyone at the club knew what the identity was, what was expected and what we were all about. We had a clear common goal. And what did that achieve? Well, it got us to the Premier League against the odds and kept us up against the odds. Not bad, eh? As many are saying, one of our problems at the moment is a lack of identity, particularly on the pitch. If there is no clarity of what is expected and how we want to move forward then its no surprise we are failing so badly as a club. As for Wagner getting lucky? Lucky over 46+ Championship games to get us promoted? Lucky to have us in the top 6 almost all season? Lucky to build a team that wholeheartedly bought into his ideas? Lucky to create the best team spirit seen at Town in a generation? And lucky to follow all of that up by surviving in the Premier League against almost impossible odds? Fuck off. You're talking out of your arse. All that you say about identity and togetherness is absolutely right but to get promoted to the Premier League with a negative goal difference is, I think, unheard of. DH and DW deserve full credit for what they achieved but I think it has to be seen through a clear glass. It was a very unusual situation but it was DW who got us there, and against all odds, kept us there for another season. That does however paper over a lot of cracks. I think the question was always going to be 'what now?'. Maybe if we could have attracted a few better players we may have continued to progress in a similar way to Burnley but that is not easy. Paying the big bucks is a risk and big wages always had the chance of being unsustainable over the life of players contracts, plus getting good players to Huddersfield is not easy. We have around a 25,000 capacity which I don't think we can increase and I don't know if the town would be big enough to support it. I think, as you said, we did it against almost impossible odds but we now need to move on. I think the club needs to develop a style of play now to make us a sustainable force in the Championship, and I don't think that is going to be the style DW promoted. I think many of us would be happy to watch battlers and games with a bit of excitement, even if that doesn't immediately get us into the top 6. It was a great journey but we need to look forward now and not back. On the point of DH taking his money out, which I know is not something you have not mentioned in this post but others have, of course he did. He cannot have ever expected us to generate enough to pay him back, even a decent percentage of what he put in. The Premiership money gave him a once only chance. He always said his goal was to make us a well run, self sustaining, business and given where we were when he took over I think he has achieved that. There have been some poor decisions but they have been footballing ones not business ones. He put a huge amount of money and time into the club he loves and I cannot thank him enough. His awful illness hit him, his family and the club very hard. I hope he is still on the road to a full recovery.
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wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by wigster on Jul 12, 2020 11:35:31 GMT 1
This may be slightly off topic but,Would any of you buy a secondhand car from the Cowley,s? Yes, I most certainly would. Unlike a lot of spivs in football they seem to be honest, extremely hard working, decent men who are doing their best. I could easily name you a lot of ex-Town managers who seemed infinitely more untrustworthy. As far as I'm aware, for example, they haven't been after wage rises every few months or got their agent to advertise their availability to other clubs at home and abroad whilst still being our manager. You can argue about their ability, lack of high level experience, or tactics but I don't see how you can possibly argue about their honesty or integrity. They seem to care a lot more, and be working so much harder, than many of the players that had been given wonderful contracts at the club long before they arrived.
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Identity
Jul 12, 2020 12:11:45 GMT 1
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Post by Waterloo Terrier on Jul 12, 2020 12:11:45 GMT 1
Seem to remember a big push behind getting Wagner in was that we had no identity on the pitch and we’d just set up to nullify teams. We had a clear Plan A, one that has been sorely been missing for a while now.
Hopefully come the summer we can re-establish that. Cowley has been firefighting, but to be successful long term we need to know what we are aiming to do, rather than just trying to block our opponents - that doesn’t work at this level.
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Post by terrierpark on Jul 12, 2020 20:37:26 GMT 1
Well i've had enough . Relegation and thats me done. Im not watching anymore sideways backwards and clueless feckers anymore. The club have proved themselves lacking in ability from top to bottom. I hope with all my heart we survive but i said on radio leeds and on here i think that whoever got the job after the p.e. teacher had an impossible task with the players we had. Failure is in the blood , the Cowleys have done well getting some good performances out of them and good results along the way but the corner twas never turned they just revert to type. Forwards who dare not try and beat a man or shoot on site, midfielders who couldnt pass forward to save their life and kitten soft defenders . Well if they cant be arsed and its clear the club had no know how or acumen then fuck em they are not worth supporting. It wont be long now before the club are moaning about gates and "we cant compete" all the same shit we have heard before, and it wont be our fault as fans who have backed in full force ,but all of their own making.
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digs
Andy Booth Terrier
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Identity
Jul 12, 2020 20:47:22 GMT 1
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Post by digs on Jul 12, 2020 20:47:22 GMT 1
This may be slightly off topic but,Would any of you buy a secondhand car from the Cowley,s? You would have to check that it didn't only have the reverse gear working
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Identity
Jul 12, 2020 20:51:28 GMT 1
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Post by alexdire on Jul 12, 2020 20:51:28 GMT 1
The whole issue at our football club is identity, we spent 10 years telling players we’re a stepping stone to greatness and we would help them by putting them in the ‘shop window’. It was a very successful tactic it got us and the club what we wanted. We reached the promised land again after a 45 year break, but unfortunately we were so focussed on the goal, once we got there we had no idea what do do or who we were anymore. You can’t define yourself with an ‘eternal struggle’ to achieve, once you’ve achieved. Unfortunately we are now in a situation where we really don’t know who we are, we’re an ex premier league club with on the face of it little ambition to get back, and we’re stuck with players who don’t want to be with us because they have no idea what HTFC is or what it’s ambitions are. It might actually be best if we drop again, I love the club and it would break my heart but it seems to me that what characterises HTFC as a club is our ability to bounce back. We need to find our spirit again because the current players don’t care about this club. Their can’t be many other clubs in all four leagues that has had more relegations or promotions over the last 10 years, and not in a yo yo sense. Being a Town fan will always be an emotional rollercoaster, we just don’t do stability. Sorry, no it won't be best to get relegated. We go down we will go under. As soon as the parachute money stops we are unsustainable at League one level. We don't have Sunderland's 30000+ hard core support to rely on. Plus PH doesn't have the millions to subsidise us that DH had, even though he's got it all back. I for one this time will not put my hands in my pocket to ward off the club being wound up.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Jul 12, 2020 20:57:26 GMT 1
The whole issue at our football club is identity, we spent 10 years telling players we’re a stepping stone to greatness and we would help them by putting them in the ‘shop window’. It was a very successful tactic it got us and the club what we wanted. We reached the promised land again after a 45 year break, but unfortunately we were so focussed on the goal, once we got there we had no idea what do do or who we were anymore. You can’t define yourself with an ‘eternal struggle’ to achieve, once you’ve achieved. Unfortunately we are now in a situation where we really don’t know who we are, we’re an ex premier league club with on the face of it little ambition to get back, and we’re stuck with players who don’t want to be with us because they have no idea what HTFC is or what it’s ambitions are. It might actually be best if we drop again, I love the club and it would break my heart but it seems to me that what characterises HTFC as a club is our ability to bounce back. We need to find our spirit again because the current players don’t care about this club. Their can’t be many other clubs in all four leagues that has had more relegations or promotions over the last 10 years, and not in a yo yo sense. Being a Town fan will always be an emotional rollercoaster, we just don’t do stability. Sorry, no it won't be best to get relegated. We go down we will go under. As soon as the parachute money stops we are unsustainable at League one level. We don't have Sunderland's 30000+ hard core support to rely on. Plus PH doesn't have the millions to subsidise us that DH had, even though he's got it all back. I for one this time will not put my hands in my pocket to ward off the club being wound up. Simply cannot understand why any fan would even think that it would be good for their team to be relegated.
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Post by impact on Jul 12, 2020 21:06:01 GMT 1
Wagner gave us an identity, a clear identity that everyone bought into. Everyone at the club knew what the identity was, what was expected and what we were all about. We had a clear common goal. And what did that achieve? Well, it got us to the Premier League against the odds and kept us up against the odds. Not bad, eh? As many are saying, one of our problems at the moment is a lack of identity, particularly on the pitch. If there is no clarity of what is expected and how we want to move forward then its no surprise we are failing so badly as a club. As for Wagner getting lucky? Lucky over 46+ Championship games to get us promoted? Lucky to have us in the top 6 almost all season? Lucky to build a team that wholeheartedly bought into his ideas? Lucky to create the best team spirit seen at Town in a generation? And lucky to follow all of that up by surviving in the Premier League against almost impossible odds? Fuck off. You're talking out of your arse. Some false German identity based on the best supported side in Europe. We finished 5th didn’t score a goal on the play offs we were Lucky, and he’d have fucked off to Villa, Leeds and anywhere else had his salary not been bumped up on 3 occasions. Lucky? Lucky that we managed to change our whole style of play over 1 international break. Lucky that we conceded just 1 goal after 85 mins all season in the promotion season. Lucky that we got a lead regularly and held it comfortably. Lucky that we were the better side in both play-off ties. Lucky that we were the only side challenging the top 2 all year, one of whom had a wage budget 7 or 8x ours, and both of whose squads cost 10s and 10s of millions more than ours. Lucky that we stayed up in the prem despite having the smallest budget in the league by far. 2 years of pure luck and absolutely nothing to do with coaching. What a lucky bloke.
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Identity
Jul 12, 2020 21:09:00 GMT 1
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Post by alexdire on Jul 12, 2020 21:09:00 GMT 1
I think Sheffield United have done a very good job of putting our achievements in perspective. Impressive yes, miraculous, absolutely not and we could have done much better. Sheffield United talk and act like they belong in the PL and aren’t taking every opportunity to belittle themselves, their club, players or city. What Sheffield Utd have done is very, very impressive. It will be interesting to see how they do next year. Didn't Ipswich do very well under George Burley (with a certain Marcus Stewart scoring plenty of goals) in their first season after promotion only to get relegated the year after? I'm not denigrating Sheffield Utd's achievements at all, but it will be hard to maintain them. Time will tell how they perform. They qualified for the UEFA cup and went through a couple of rounds. Until they got thrashed in the San Diego by Inter, I went with a mate who follows Ipswich. I think that run buggered their season up. Plus Stewart's off the field antics, one of the other players broke his jaw.
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Identity
Jul 12, 2020 21:12:18 GMT 1
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Post by impact on Jul 12, 2020 21:12:18 GMT 1
I seem to remember we were favourites to go down in 2017-2018. We certainly would have been one of the favourites for relegation before we played away at the Etihad and Stamford Bridge. Yes, City had nothing to play for, but Chelsea certainly did. I don't know the comparative amounts of money spent in our first season in the Premier League, but I would expect our budget was one of the smallest. I don't understand why Town fans look to belittle our achievement in staying up. Maybe there were some other poor teams, but IMO that does not undermine Town's achievement. I agree that the football in the Premier League was not always the best. We were playing against far better players and Wagner was much more pragmatic. We had our moments though. Our club has become a car crash since the end of our first season in the Premier League. I would not disagree, and I would not absolve Wagner of some blame. But no matter how shit things have been since then, I can't understand why Town fans denigrate our achievements of the promotion and survival seasons. I just don't understand it. And it really annoys me to be honest. There are plenty of reasons to criticise Town, but promotion to the Premier League and survival in it are nowhere near the top of my list. Other may think differently. I think Sheffield United have done a very good job of putting our achievements in perspective. Impressive yes, miraculous, absolutely not and we could have done much better. Sheffield United talk and act like they belong in the PL and aren’t taking every opportunity to belittle themselves, their club, players or city. Sheff Utd have been there before in recent history and have a budget far in excess of ours. Their wage bill was over £40m in the championship. Whilst I agree with your comment about belittling themselves, and they have been great this season, their achievements don't really compare to ours (as in it's hard to compare as the circumstances are different). They were far more set up for the prem than we were.
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Identity
Jul 12, 2020 21:19:35 GMT 1
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Post by Jack on Jul 12, 2020 21:19:35 GMT 1
Some false German identity based on the best supported side in Europe. We finished 5th didn’t score a goal on the play offs we were Lucky, and he’d have fucked off to Villa, Leeds and anywhere else had his salary not been bumped up on 3 occasions. Lucky? Lucky that we managed to change our whole style of play over 1 international break. Lucky that we conceded just 1 goal after 85 mins all season in the promotion season. Lucky that we got a lead regularly and held it comfortably. Lucky that we were the better side in both play-off ties. Lucky that we were the only side challenging the top 2 all year, one of whom had a wage budget 7 or 8x ours, and both of whose squads cost 10s and 10s of millions more than ours. Lucky that we stayed up in the prem despite having the smallest budget in the league by far. 2 years of pure luck and absolutely nothing to do with coaching. What a lucky bloke. You're right. The only 'luck' you could potentially argue Wagner had is that the signing of Aaron Mooy turned out to be so good. Wagner created the identity and built the team bond etc... but without Mooy there's no way we would have gone up.
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Identity
Jul 12, 2020 21:39:05 GMT 1
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Post by impact on Jul 12, 2020 21:39:05 GMT 1
Lucky? Lucky that we managed to change our whole style of play over 1 international break. Lucky that we conceded just 1 goal after 85 mins all season in the promotion season. Lucky that we got a lead regularly and held it comfortably. Lucky that we were the better side in both play-off ties. Lucky that we were the only side challenging the top 2 all year, one of whom had a wage budget 7 or 8x ours, and both of whose squads cost 10s and 10s of millions more than ours. Lucky that we stayed up in the prem despite having the smallest budget in the league by far. 2 years of pure luck and absolutely nothing to do with coaching. What a lucky bloke. You're right. The only 'luck' you could potentially argue Wagner had is that the signing of Aaron Mooy turned out to be so good. Wagner created the identity and built the team bond etc... but without Mooy there's no way we would have gone up. You could say that about a lot of players: Without the 2 main full backs and their ability to attack the game plan doesn't work Without Hogg doing so much pressing and intercepting would have left us open No Schindler and we wouldn't have stayed so solid at the back Without Kachunga cutting in and scoring regularly we wouldn't have gone up Mooy was our best player but without any individual component it wouldn't have worked.
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Identity
Jul 12, 2020 22:05:42 GMT 1
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Post by Jack on Jul 12, 2020 22:05:42 GMT 1
You're right. The only 'luck' you could potentially argue Wagner had is that the signing of Aaron Mooy turned out to be so good. Wagner created the identity and built the team bond etc... but without Mooy there's no way we would have gone up. You could say that about a lot of players: Without the 2 main full backs and their ability to attack the game plan doesn't work Without Hogg doing so much pressing and intercepting would have left us open No Schindler and we wouldn't have stayed so solid at the back Without Kachunga cutting in and scoring regularly we wouldn't have gone up Mooy was our best player but without any individual component it wouldn't have worked. It was undoubtedly a team effort but you could take away any of the individual components you've just mentioned and we could still have gone up. Without Mooy we wouldn't have had a prayer.
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Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Identity
Jul 12, 2020 22:06:24 GMT 1
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Post by Maynardblue on Jul 12, 2020 22:06:24 GMT 1
The whole issue at our football club is identity, we spent 10 years telling players we’re a stepping stone to greatness and we would help them by putting them in the ‘shop window’. It was a very successful tactic it got us and the club what we wanted. We reached the promised land again after a 45 year break, but unfortunately we were so focussed on the goal, once we got there we had no idea what do do or who we were anymore. You can’t define yourself with an ‘eternal struggle’ to achieve, once you’ve achieved. Unfortunately we are now in a situation where we really don’t know who we are, we’re an ex premier league club with on the face of it little ambition to get back, and we’re stuck with players who don’t want to be with us because they have no idea what HTFC is or what it’s ambitions are. It might actually be best if we drop again, I love the club and it would break my heart but it seems to me that what characterises HTFC as a club is our ability to bounce back. We need to find our spirit again because the current players don’t care about this club. Their can’t be many other clubs in all four leagues that has had more relegations or promotions over the last 10 years, and not in a yo yo sense. Being a Town fan will always be an emotional rollercoaster, we just don’t do stability. Sorry, no it won't be best to get relegated. We go down we will go under. As soon as the parachute money stops we are unsustainable at League one level. We don't have Sunderland's 30000+ hard core support to rely on. Plus PH doesn't have the millions to subsidise us that DH had, even though he's got it all back. I for one this time will not put my hands in my pocket to ward off the club being wound up. We certainly would be sustainable. The salary cap for league one will be £2.5m
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Post by lancsterrier on Jul 12, 2020 22:33:18 GMT 1
One word, Burnley. Fact is when Town got to Prem, clueless management and couldn't give a toss players. Result, downward spiral.
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joek
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Identity
Jul 13, 2020 22:10:08 GMT 1
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Post by joek on Jul 13, 2020 22:10:08 GMT 1
One word, Burnley. Fact is when Town got to Prem, clueless management and couldn't give a toss players. Result, downward spiral. Burnley have done great. But am pretty sure they’ll get relegated eventually and it’s not exactly a happy camp right now in terms of the board and the manager. Stoke were doing great once. So were Bolton, Charlton, Sunderland, West Brom, etc etc. Getting to the Premier League gives you no divine right to stay there. Three teams a year get relegated. Will happen to everyone bar the big six, Everton and maybe Leicester eventually. Relegation was annoying and frustrating, but also pretty much inevitable, whether it was last year, this year or a few years hence.
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