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Post by aloadofdbullocks on Jul 26, 2020 11:24:55 GMT 1
I keep seeing mentioned that we are skint and need to be run on a shoestring next season, but is this not true of most of the sides in the division (perhaps with the exception of Norwich)?
Does anybody know which teams will actually be in a comfortable financial position next season? As a best guess where do Town lie in the order of teams re money to spend?
Surely teams like Derby must be struggling - no prem money and they always seem to spend a lot? I know there are shenanigans like selling the ground at excessive values but that can only be done once?
I know we have debts to pay and some excessive wages on wastes of time (there go the parachute payments) but are we really in that bad a position compared to others?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 11:53:15 GMT 1
I don’t believe so no.
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Post by softboy on Jul 26, 2020 12:02:10 GMT 1
If you have a bit of time to spare look on Companies House website as pretty much all Audited Accounts for Football Clubs are on there.
If you look at Reading and ignore funds injected by owners/lent to the club by owners to keep the club afloat this was their trading results to June 2019.
Income £18m
Outgoings £45m
Trading LOSS £27m.
So essentially for every £1 they took in they spent £1.50.
There are lots of clubs run on this basis, Wigan shows when the owners say "no more" what happens. I would say there will be a number of clubs, probably near the top of the Championship where the owners are pumping in millions but because of COVID etc (not only the clubs finances but their own businesses as well) will simply put them into Administration and walk away.
Phil mentioned in a Talkshite interview (I believe) that he thought at least 20/30 low level clubs may go into Administration. he could well be right but I think the first casualties could be some of the teams towards the top of the Championship who have been well documented on here.
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crux
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Post by crux on Jul 26, 2020 12:07:25 GMT 1
If you have a bit of time to spare look on Companies House website as pretty much all Audited Accounts for Football Clubs are on there. If you look at Reading and ignore funds injected by owners/lent to the club by owners to keep the club afloat this was their trading results to June 2019. Income £18m Outgoings £45m Trading LOSS £27m. So essentially for every £1 they took in they spent £1.50. There are lots of clubs run on this basis, Wigan shows when the owners say "no more" what happens. I would say there will be a number of clubs, probably near the top of the Championship where the owners are pumping in millions but because of COVID etc (not only the clubs finances but their own businesses as well) will simply put them into Administration and walk away. Phil mentioned in a Talkshite interview (I believe) that he thought at least 20/30 low level clubs may go into Administration. he could well be right but I think the first casualties could be some of the teams towards the top of the Championship who have been well documented on here. It's worse than that, it's £2.50 for every £1 of income. They must have Diane Abbott as the club accountant  |
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Post by softboy on Jul 26, 2020 12:07:38 GMT 1
Should say;
For every £1 they took in they spent £2.50 and lost £1.50 at the end of the day. Sorry about that.
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Post by softboy on Jul 26, 2020 12:08:09 GMT 1
You bet me too it!!!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 12:12:41 GMT 1
If you have a bit of time to spare look on Companies House website as pretty much all Audited Accounts for Football Clubs are on there. If you look at Reading and ignore funds injected by owners/lent to the club by owners to keep the club afloat this was their trading results to June 2019. Income £18m Outgoings £45m Trading LOSS £27m. So essentially for every £1 they took in they spent £1.50. There are lots of clubs run on this basis, Wigan shows when the owners say "no more" what happens. I would say there will be a number of clubs, probably near the top of the Championship where the owners are pumping in millions but because of COVID etc (not only the clubs finances but their own businesses as well) will simply put them into Administration and walk away. Phil mentioned in a Talkshite interview (I believe) that he thought at least 20/30 low level clubs may go into Administration. he could well be right but I think the first casualties could be some of the teams towards the top of the Championship who have been well documented on here. I see your point however, your interpretation of the figures is a bit off. Reading spent £2.50 for every £1 they took in, therefore a loss of £1.50/£1! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 12:13:34 GMT 1
I'm slowest.
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Post by softboy on Jul 26, 2020 12:25:24 GMT 1
I think we all agree (apart from the Maths) that this cannot continue. What exactly the EFL can do I am not sure as none of this activity breaches any rules of regulations (law), it just makes clubs like this extremely vunerable to takeovers etc where the principle reason for buying the club in the first place is to get to the the promised land (reap the financial benefits of the PL)and if this doesn't happen cut your losses and put the club into Administration etc.
Just a comment - If you have never been on Companies House it is completely free and this is public information and freely available.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 12:46:49 GMT 1
If you have a bit of time to spare look on Companies House website as pretty much all Audited Accounts for Football Clubs are on there. If you look at Reading and ignore funds injected by owners/lent to the club by owners to keep the club afloat this was their trading results to June 2019. Income £18m Outgoings £45m Trading LOSS £27m. So essentially for every £1 they took in they spent £1.50. There are lots of clubs run on this basis, Wigan shows when the owners say "no more" what happens. I would say there will be a number of clubs, probably near the top of the Championship where the owners are pumping in millions but because of COVID etc (not only the clubs finances but their own businesses as well) will simply put them into Administration and walk away. Phil mentioned in a Talkshite interview (I believe) that he thought at least 20/30 low level clubs may go into Administration. he could well be right but I think the first casualties could be some of the teams towards the top of the Championship who have been well documented on here. Top post. No one seems to have realised that we’re heading for the worst recession of any of our lifetimes. Worse than 72-76, worse than 81-83, worse than 90-92 worse than 2008. All business from all sectors will struggle and this will impact on sports including football which as you rightly say has been improperly run for years now. So many clubs limping from season to season without balancing of the books. They might’ve been ok...but not in a recession. I work in healthcare and I can tell you the sector is completely fucked. Destroyed by NHS discharges of Covid patients into care homes which hen killed all their residents. Probably increased the national death total by 30k with that crazy move based on crazy scientific modelling. Sorry I digress. |
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Post by softboy on Jul 26, 2020 13:08:02 GMT 1
Never been called "Top Post" before. Thank you.
Seriously your last paragraph is a chilling reminder of what has happened, where we are now, where we are going. It not "digressing" it reminding people of the situation. Keep safe and well and thanks for what you folks are doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2020 13:18:11 GMT 1
Never been called "Top Post" before. Thank you. Seriously your last paragraph is a chilling reminder of what has happened, where we are now, where we are going. It not "digressing" it reminding people of the situation. Keep safe and well and thanks for what you folks are doing. Thanks man. It’s been tough and not getting any easier. I fine myself grateful I’m not in aviation, tourism, hospitality, catering or retail though. There’s absolutely no way football won’t be affected. Phil ain’t no fool. As you’ve pointed out he’s already been talking about the state of the sector. No-one else seems to be really listening though. |
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Post by aloadofdbullocks on Jul 26, 2020 19:05:26 GMT 1
Never been called "Top Post" before. Thank you. Seriously your last paragraph is a chilling reminder of what has happened, where we are now, where we are going. It not "digressing" it reminding people of the situation. Keep safe and well and thanks for what you folks are doing. Thanks man. It’s been tough and not getting any easier. I fine myself grateful I’m not in aviation, tourism, hospitality, catering or retail though. There’s absolutely no way football won’t be affected. Phil ain’t no fool. As you’ve pointed out he’s already been talking about the state of the sector. No-one else seems to be really listening though. Yes the problem is the other basket case clubs which keep overpaying which means better run clubs can’t compete and ok the basket cases may go into administration and lose points eventually but that still means better run clubs miss out on decent players. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 14:04:46 GMT 1
Thanks man. It’s been tough and not getting any easier. I fine myself grateful I’m not in aviation, tourism, hospitality, catering or retail though. There’s absolutely no way football won’t be affected. Phil ain’t no fool. As you’ve pointed out he’s already been talking about the state of the sector. No-one else seems to be really listening though. Yes the problem is the other basket case clubs which keep overpaying which means better run clubs can’t compete and ok the basket cases may go into administration and lose points eventually but that still means better run clubs miss out on decent players. True, but it won’t be administration that stops them doing this- it’ll be their own cash flows and resources. I think it’ll happen sooner in fact it’ll already be happening now I would think. |
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Post by garyroberts'leftfoot on Jul 27, 2020 15:40:26 GMT 1
Given that we are getting parachute payments you would expect that our budget will be one of the largest in the division next season.
We do not rely on income from tickets anywhere near as much as many other clubs in the division so if (and it is a big if) we can offload the big wages of Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo and Flo then we should have a decent amount of money to recruit.
Many clubs will be struggling next season and I hope we can take advantage.
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Post by aloadofdbullocks on Jul 27, 2020 23:11:35 GMT 1
Given that we are getting parachute payments you would expect that our budget will be one of the largest in the division next season. We do not rely on income from tickets anywhere near as much as many other clubs in the division so if (and it is a big if) we can offload the big wages of Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo and Flo then we should have a decent amount of money to recruit. Many clubs will be struggling next season and I hope we can take advantage. I hope so but aren’t some of our parachute payments being used to pay off debts? |
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Post by Boaty McBoatface on Jul 27, 2020 23:43:06 GMT 1
Given that we are getting parachute payments you would expect that our budget will be one of the largest in the division next season. We do not rely on income from tickets anywhere near as much as many other clubs in the division so if (and it is a big if) we can offload the big wages of Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo and Flo then we should have a decent amount of money to recruit. Many clubs will be struggling next season and I hope we can take advantage. I hope so but aren’t some of our parachute payments being used to pay off debts? No, they're going straight to DH. And it's not some, it's all. The sale of the club to PH should never have been allowed to take place on this basis. I really have nothing but contempt for the way they've contrived this process and left the club high and dry purely for their own selfish ends. |
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Post by nuro on Jul 28, 2020 12:18:02 GMT 1
Championship teams are in trouble. Quite a few are run with huge debts to get to the money league.
The bubble will burst one day.
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Post by ilsonterrier on Jul 28, 2020 12:35:29 GMT 1
Given that we are getting parachute payments you would expect that our budget will be one of the largest in the division next season. We do not rely on income from tickets anywhere near as much as many other clubs in the division so if (and it is a big if) we can offload the big wages of Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo and Flo then we should have a decent amount of money to recruit. Many clubs will be struggling next season and I hope we can take advantage. Seem to remember seeing somewhere that the amount that is being paid in parachute payments is being cut. Part of the cut in the level of payments being made by the TV companies to the Premier League. That's going to hit us as well. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jul 28, 2020 12:54:07 GMT 1
I hope so but aren’t some of our parachute payments being used to pay off debts? No, they're going straight to DH. And it's not some, it's all. The sale of the club to PH should never have been allowed to take place on this basis. I really have nothing but contempt for the way they've contrived this process and left the club high and dry purely for their own selfish ends. Seems very unfair that DH as taken the money back because the club could afford it due to parachute payments but then when parachute payments are reduced the club can’t afford it yet DH still insists he wants his money back. The question is if we hadn’t won promotion would DH have wanted his money back from the club , because if the answer is no because we couldn’t afford too, then ? ? ? We can’t now because parachute payments are being taken away. |
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Post by aloadofdbullocks on Jul 28, 2020 13:02:50 GMT 1
Given that we are getting parachute payments you would expect that our budget will be one of the largest in the division next season. We do not rely on income from tickets anywhere near as much as many other clubs in the division so if (and it is a big if) we can offload the big wages of Mbenza, Diakhaby, Kongolo and Flo then we should have a decent amount of money to recruit. Many clubs will be struggling next season and I hope we can take advantage. Seem to remember seeing somewhere that the amount that is being paid in parachute payments is being cut. Part of the cut in the level of payments being made by the TV companies to the Premier League. That's going to hit us as well. What parachute payments were due for the next couple of seasons and what have they been reduced to? |
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Post by ilsonterrier on Jul 28, 2020 13:05:35 GMT 1
Seem to remember seeing somewhere that the amount that is being paid in parachute payments is being cut. Part of the cut in the level of payments being made by the TV companies to the Premier League. That's going to hit us as well. What parachute payments were due for the next couple of seasons and what have they been reduced to? I must admit I don't know the actual figures, just that they had been reduced along with the income current premier league clubs get. |
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Post by ambryboy on Jul 28, 2020 13:24:21 GMT 1
I hope so but aren’t some of our parachute payments being used to pay off debts? No, they're going straight to DH. And it's not some, it's all. The sale of the club to PH should never have been allowed to take place on this basis. I really have nothing but contempt for the way they've contrived this process and left the club high and dry purely for their own selfish ends. Well said Boaty, although expect a few pelters from those who will accuse you of spending other peoples' money. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 13:51:42 GMT 1
No, they're going straight to DH. And it's not some, it's all. The sale of the club to PH should never have been allowed to take place on this basis. I really have nothing but contempt for the way they've contrived this process and left the club high and dry purely for their own selfish ends. Well said Boaty, although expect a few pelters from those who will accuse you of spending other peoples' money. Except Boaty is technically incorrect. Money owed to Dean Hoyle by the club *IS* a debt. So any monies (from parachutes or elsewhere) that the club pays him *IS* going towards reducing club debt. |
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Post by rothwellterrier on Jul 28, 2020 14:00:13 GMT 1
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Jul 28, 2020 14:03:23 GMT 1
Well said Boaty, although expect a few pelters from those who will accuse you of spending other peoples' money. Except Boaty is technically incorrect. Money owed to Dean Hoyle by the club *IS* a debt. So any monies (from parachutes or elsewhere) that the club pays him *IS* going towards reducing club debt. And we don't really need another thread that descends into a discussion of the terms of the takeover and the legality/morality of a creditor calling in a debt |
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Post by softboy on Jul 28, 2020 14:08:51 GMT 1
Well said Boaty, although expect a few pelters from those who will accuse you of spending other peoples' money. Except Boaty is technically incorrect. Money owed to Dean Hoyle by the club *IS* a debt. So any monies (from parachutes or elsewhere) that the club pays him *IS* going towards reducing club debt. Exactly. DH put funds into Town by way of Directors Loans to help the club achieve success - I would say taking the club from mid table League 1 to the PL would be classed as success. The club are now paying him back the monies he lent. I am at a complete loss as to what all the fuss is about. If the club had not had this relative success then it would be highly unlikely he would be getting any money back. |
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Post by Henry Mcgee on Jul 28, 2020 14:21:13 GMT 1
With a net worth of £11.8 billion, £55m is a relatively insignificant sum - especially as he has the potential to recoup if they get back to the promised land and stay there. People expecting DH (& Janet) - net worth around £300m - to write off £40-50m - well that's a much bigger ask. Really poor form for anyone to have a go at him - some of us have become a very entitled group in a very entitled society. |
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Post by softboy on Jul 28, 2020 14:28:01 GMT 1
The Fulham guy has not written any money off but simply changed the form of Investment from Directors Loans to Shareholders funds so either way if the business is a failure he will probably loose his money if the business is successful he will have opportunities to get his money back.
(ie). Directors Loan - get it repaid to him. Shareholders Funds - sell them.
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Post by rothwellterrier on Jul 28, 2020 14:28:50 GMT 1
Last time I looked this thread was titled "Championship teams finances".  |
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