Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 14:45:43 GMT 1
With a net worth of £11.8 billion, £55m is a relatively insignificant sum - especially as he has the potential to recoup if they get back to the promised land and stay there. People expecting DH (& Janet) - net worth around £300m - to write off £40-50m - well that's a much bigger ask. Really poor form for anyone to have a go at him - some of us have become a very entitled group in a very entitled society. He's not writing it off, he's converted it to shares.
|
|
|
Post by blanquiazules on Jul 28, 2020 14:51:35 GMT 1
With a net worth of £11.8 billion, £55m is a relatively insignificant sum - especially as he has the potential to recoup if they get back to the promised land and stay there. People expecting DH (& Janet) - net worth around £300m - to write off £40-50m - well that's a much bigger ask. Really poor form for anyone to have a go at him - some of us have become a very entitled group in a very entitled society. It’s not that it had to be written off though, it’s the way the deal was done that people don’t like. It seems from the comments after the event that there were 2 options available: i. Sell to an outside investor who could pay DH his money back - with the risk that they might not have the club’s best long term interests at heart ii. Sell to a Town fan who can’t afford to pay DH his money back - which would appear to need a write off of some/all of the director loans Problem is that a solution was concocted to achieve both aims, which appears to have left the club in a mess financially. If getting the money owed back was the priority (which is fair enough, even if not the intent before the PL money came along) then option i was the way to do that.
|
|
Sabre
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 629
|
Post by Sabre on Jul 28, 2020 15:13:08 GMT 1
How much of the three year parachute payments go to Dean Hoyle? Apologies if I have missed it. Cheers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 15:31:42 GMT 1
With a net worth of £11.8 billion, £55m is a relatively insignificant sum - especially as he has the potential to recoup if they get back to the promised land and stay there. People expecting DH (& Janet) - net worth around £300m - to write off £40-50m - well that's a much bigger ask. Really poor form for anyone to have a go at him - some of us have become a very entitled group in a very entitled society. It’s not that it had to be written off though, it’s the way the deal was done that people don’t like. It seems from the comments after the event that there were 2 options available: i. Sell to an outside investor who could pay DH his money back - with the risk that they might not have the club’s best long term interests at heart ii. Sell to a Town fan who can’t afford to pay DH his money back - which would appear to need a write off of some/all of the director loansProblem is that a solution was concocted to achieve both aims, which appears to have left the club in a mess financially. If getting the money owed back was the priority (which is fair enough, even if not the intent before the PL money came along) then option i was the way to do that. You CAN'T do that, no idea where you'd get that impression!? They either needed to be repaid to an agreed schedule, or converted to shares and formed part of the value of the club so paid for in the consideration paid for buying the club.
|
|
|
Post by brighousebandbred on Jul 28, 2020 15:32:50 GMT 1
With a net worth of £11.8 billion, £55m is a relatively insignificant sum - especially as he has the potential to recoup if they get back to the promised land and stay there. People expecting DH (& Janet) - net worth around £300m - to write off £40-50m - well that's a much bigger ask. Really poor form for anyone to have a go at him - some of us have become a very entitled group in a very entitled society. Who said anything about writing it off. He’s getting his brass back and still owns 25 % ( currently) and owns canal side which when finished could be worth 10 million plus. We are getting reduced parachute payments and I can’t see where anyone as said write it off, even though he gave the impression to fans it wasn’t a loan at the start.
|
|
Melc
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,829
|
Post by Melc on Jul 28, 2020 15:59:39 GMT 1
I thought it was going to cost between £15-2OM. Anyone know when the new building starts to go up before demolishing the old one?
|
|
|
Post by blanquiazules on Jul 28, 2020 16:45:07 GMT 1
It’s not that it had to be written off though, it’s the way the deal was done that people don’t like. It seems from the comments after the event that there were 2 options available: i. Sell to an outside investor who could pay DH his money back - with the risk that they might not have the club’s best long term interests at heart ii. Sell to a Town fan who can’t afford to pay DH his money back - which would appear to need a write off of some/all of the director loansProblem is that a solution was concocted to achieve both aims, which appears to have left the club in a mess financially. If getting the money owed back was the priority (which is fair enough, even if not the intent before the PL money came along) then option i was the way to do that. You CAN'T do that, no idea where you'd get that impression!? They either needed to be repaid to an agreed schedule, or converted to shares and formed part of the value of the club so paid for in the consideration paid for buying the club. I’ve no knowledge of business accounting so if you say that’s the case then I’m sure you’ll be right. But there’s no way that an individual couldn’t choose to sell the business and reduce the amount they received / were owed as part of that deal surely? (not that I’m saying that they should choose to do so) Presumably I ought to have described the option as ‘convert the loans to shares and then sell the club to a Town fan at a share price they could afford’ Anyway, the point I was making was either get all the money back via external investors or sell to a Town fan and get considerably less back.
|
|
|
Post by Boaty McBoatface on Jul 28, 2020 17:01:43 GMT 1
Well said Boaty, although expect a few pelters from those who will accuse you of spending other peoples' money. Except Boaty is technically incorrect. Money owed to Dean Hoyle by the club *IS* a debt. So any monies (from parachutes or elsewhere) that the club pays him *IS* going towards reducing club debt. Where did I say the money owed to DH wasn't a debt? The point is that DH and PH appear to have contrived an ethically dubious arrangement IMO whereby the parachute payments (intended to support a club financially after being relegated from the Prem) have been transferred to DH as payment by PH for the club. And when he bought the club, PH said he'd never take any money out of the club, but I would suggest that he did precisely that when using the parachute payments that were due to the club, to instead be used as payment to buy the club from DH.
And to be clear, the issue isn't with DH getting his money back, it's the way he has done it that I have a problem with.
|
|
Sabre
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 629
|
Post by Sabre on Jul 28, 2020 17:07:37 GMT 1
Good post Boaty.
So, can someone clarify.... how much did we/ do we owe DH and how much are the three year parachute payments??
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jul 28, 2020 17:37:52 GMT 1
I hope so but aren’t some of our parachute payments being used to pay off debts? No, they're going straight to DH. And it's not some, it's all. The sale of the club to PH should never have been allowed to take place on this basis. I really have nothing but contempt for the way they've contrived this process and left the club high and dry purely for their own selfish ends. On what grounds not allowed its feck all to do with supporters It’s just a cash flow thing and you will find many debts are secured against assets which in this case includes future income
|
|
|
Post by Million Dollar Babies on Jul 28, 2020 17:38:41 GMT 1
I thought it was going to cost between £15-2OM. Anyone know when the new building starts to go up before demolishing the old one? Heard a few whispers that we're in a dispute with the contractor Marshall over late payments. Sounds like we owe them quite a bit. Could be bollox like but plenty seem to have heard the same
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jul 28, 2020 17:39:18 GMT 1
With a net worth of £11.8 billion, £55m is a relatively insignificant sum - especially as he has the potential to recoup if they get back to the promised land and stay there. People expecting DH (& Janet) - net worth around £300m - to write off £40-50m - well that's a much bigger ask. Really poor form for anyone to have a go at him - some of us have become a very entitled group in a very entitled society. He's not writing it off, he's converted it to shares. Depends how f shares are worth owt yep he’s throwing it away front unless hec can get them promoted
|
|
|
Post by Boaty McBoatface on Jul 28, 2020 17:53:21 GMT 1
No, they're going straight to DH. And it's not some, it's all. The sale of the club to PH should never have been allowed to take place on this basis. I really have nothing but contempt for the way they've contrived this process and left the club high and dry purely for their own selfish ends. On what grounds not allowed its feck all to do with supporters It’s just a cash flow thing and you will find many debts are secured against assets which in this case includes future income Perfectly legal I'll grant you that. Ethical, that's another question.
|
|
|
Post by Colin the Caterpillar on Jul 28, 2020 18:03:38 GMT 1
Good post Boaty. So, can someone clarify.... how much did we/ do we owe DH and how much are the three year parachute payments?? We owe him exactly £45m. It is to be repaid £15m this year, £10m in each of the following 2 years, with £10m to be repaid at an unspecified time after that. Parachutes are roughly £45m this year, £37m next year, £16m the year after that.
|
|
|
Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Jul 28, 2020 18:06:57 GMT 1
He's not writing it off, he's converted it to shares. Depends how f shares are worth owt yep he’s throwing it away front unless hec can get them promoted It’s incredibly common all debts of substance have collateral I don’t see the problem
|
|
Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,540
|
Post by Maynardblue on Jul 28, 2020 18:12:14 GMT 1
Don't forget we basically spent most of the first parachute payment whilst still in the prem ( the loan we took out against future income) the first parachute payment will have repaid that loan. No doubt the balance repaid to to Dean and the sales supporting our £23m wage bill.
|
|
|
Post by space hardware on Jul 28, 2020 21:44:50 GMT 1
Don't forget we basically spent most of the first parachute payment whilst still in the prem ( the loan we took out against future income) the first parachute payment will have repaid that loan. No doubt the balance repaid to to Dean and the sales supporting our £23m wage bill. Setting aside the parachute payments we, purely for being in the PL, also earned: £102.4m in 2017/18 £93.6m in 2018/19
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2020 22:17:26 GMT 1
Don't forget we basically spent most of the first parachute payment whilst still in the prem ( the loan we took out against future income) the first parachute payment will have repaid that loan. No doubt the balance repaid to to Dean and the sales supporting our £23m wage bill. Do you work for the clubs PR Department? 😂 No offence intended, the info you post it always spot on but it comes across as if it is coming directly from the clubs mouth to keep the fans onside. If the parachute payments really are all accounted for then the deal between Hodgkinson and Hoyle has truly shafted the club and probably ended any hope of a return to the premier league. Has Hodgkinson got the personal wealth to prop up a Championship football club moving forward? Only time will tell. I suppose we shouldn't feel entitled to having a wealthy owner to get us punching above our weight but that is the dream for most football fans in reality.
|
|
|
Post by workshyfop on Jul 28, 2020 22:25:57 GMT 1
Don't forget we basically spent most of the first parachute payment whilst still in the prem ( the loan we took out against future income) the first parachute payment will have repaid that loan. No doubt the balance repaid to to Dean and the sales supporting our £23m wage bill. Do you work for the clubs PR Department? 😂 No offence intended, the info you post it always spot on but it comes across as if it is coming directly from the clubs mouth to keep the fans onside. If the parachute payments really are all accounted for then the deal between Hodgkinson and Hoyle has truly shafted the club and probably ended any hope of a return to the premier league. Has Hodgkinson got the personal wealth to prop up a Championship football club moving forward? Only time will tell. I suppose we shouldn't feel entitled to having a wealthy owner to get us punching above our weight but that is the dream for most football fans in reality. I took the point to be that Hoyle has hamstrung the club. He's taken the parachute payments and will be taking the money from any outgoing transfers until he gets his brass back.
|
|
Maynardblue
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,540
|
Post by Maynardblue on Jul 28, 2020 22:45:12 GMT 1
Don't forget we basically spent most of the first parachute payment whilst still in the prem ( the loan we took out against future income) the first parachute payment will have repaid that loan. No doubt the balance repaid to to Dean and the sales supporting our £23m wage bill. Do you work for the clubs PR Department? 😂 No offence intended, the info you post it always spot on but it comes across as if it is coming directly from the clubs mouth to keep the fans onside. If the parachute payments really are all accounted for then the deal between Hodgkinson and Hoyle has truly shafted the club and probably ended any hope of a return to the premier league. Has Hodgkinson got the personal wealth to prop up a Championship football club moving forward? Only time will tell. I suppose we shouldn't feel entitled to having a wealthy owner to get us punching above our weight but that is the dream for most football fans in reality. You think what I wrote sounds good for the club!? Sounds like a fucking shit show the last 2 years to me
|
|
|
Post by specialun on Jul 29, 2020 0:45:28 GMT 1
Do you work for the clubs PR Department? 😂 No offence intended, the info you post it always spot on but it comes across as if it is coming directly from the clubs mouth to keep the fans onside. If the parachute payments really are all accounted for then the deal between Hodgkinson and Hoyle has truly shafted the club and probably ended any hope of a return to the premier league. Has Hodgkinson got the personal wealth to prop up a Championship football club moving forward? Only time will tell. I suppose we shouldn't feel entitled to having a wealthy owner to get us punching above our weight but that is the dream for most football fans in reality. I took the point to be that Hoyle has hamstrung the club. He's taken the parachute payments and will be taking the money from any outgoing transfers until he gets his brass back. You mean Dean ‘moment in time... to give the club to my mate in order to get my cash I never thought I’d see again back!’ Hoyle? Moment in time ... you’re not kidding!
|
|
|
Post by cecerececerececere on Jul 29, 2020 7:00:40 GMT 1
Makes you wonder if DH's unbridled scenes of joy in the Wembley directors box that were captured on camera were because he had seen his boyhood dream accomplished or it it was because he now had a 'get out of jail free' card which would allow him to get his £45m back.
Sad to say that regardless of the whys and wherefores, DH's legacy has been tarnished by this seemingly dodgy deal (ethically).
It's hard to be too harsh on DH considering what he did for the club, plus he was severely ill before selling the club. I think we can all agree that we hoped for a better ending to the Dean Hoyle fairy tale
|
|
ilsonterrier
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,237
Member is Online
|
Post by ilsonterrier on Jul 29, 2020 8:49:35 GMT 1
Makes you wonder if DH's unbridled scenes of joy in the Wembley directors box that were captured on camera were because he had seen his boyhood dream accomplished or it it was because he now had a 'get out of jail free' card which would allow him to get his £45m back. Sad to say that regardless of the whys and wherefores, DH's legacy has been tarnished by this seemingly dodgy deal (ethically). It's hard to be too harsh on DH considering what he did for the club, plus he was severely ill before selling the club. I think we can all agree that we hoped for a better ending to the Dean Hoyle fairy tale I think his illness is potentially the main reason he is selling up. He's the same age as me and his children are a similar age to mine. If I had been as ill as he had been I'd be seriously reassessing my life. By all accounts, he came very close to not making it through. Now, I'm nowhere near a financial position to be able to retire, but he is. Yes, I guess he could afford to leave the money if he wanted to but, at the end of the day, it's his choice. He could have sold us out to a foreign group - that's worked really well for a number of clubs! It's a shame things have ended up the way they have, but we just need to get on with it now. There will be a number of other clubs in our division with little or no money to spend and there will be those spending crazy amounts to reach the promised land so no changes there.
|
|
|
Post by nuro on Jul 29, 2020 10:33:40 GMT 1
Makes you wonder if DH's unbridled scenes of joy in the Wembley directors box that were captured on camera were because he had seen his boyhood dream accomplished or it it was because he now had a 'get out of jail free' card which would allow him to get his £45m back. Sad to say that regardless of the whys and wherefores, DH's legacy has been tarnished by this seemingly dodgy deal (ethically). It's hard to be too harsh on DH considering what he did for the club, plus he was severely ill before selling the club. I think we can all agree that we hoped for a better ending to the Dean Hoyle fairy tale Its funny you should say that, a neutral asked me who was that guy who looked like his life was on the line?
|
|
|
Post by I have a box full of hats on Jul 29, 2020 11:06:34 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by kennyk2 on Jul 29, 2020 12:15:21 GMT 1
Seeing that the money paid for the club was subject to a non disclosure agreement, where did the story regarding the use of parachute payments for PH to purchase come from? Second, didn't PH say on "And he takes that chance", that the last instalment of paying off the loan to DH would be completed by this September? I'm not sure, but was this around £15 million?
|
|
dezzly
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,872
|
Post by dezzly on Jul 29, 2020 12:30:53 GMT 1
Seeing that the money paid for the club was subject to a non disclosure agreement, where did the story regarding the use of parachute payments for PH to purchase come from? Second, didn't PH say on "And he takes that chance", that the last instalment of paying off the loan to DH would be completed by this September? I'm not sure, but was this around £15 million? I think the bank loan is paid of this year...but it’s the first instalment to dean..15m which should have already been paid.Then I believe it’s 10m this August 10 the following August and then a further 10 with no set date
|
|
|
Post by Colin the Caterpillar on Jul 29, 2020 13:13:13 GMT 1
Seeing that the money paid for the club was subject to a non disclosure agreement, where did the story regarding the use of parachute payments for PH to purchase come from? Second, didn't PH say on "And he takes that chance", that the last instalment of paying off the loan to DH would be completed by this September? I'm not sure, but was this around £15 million? I think the bank loan is paid of this year...but it’s the first instalment to dean..15m which should have already been paid.Then I believe it’s 10m this August 10 the following August and then a further 10 with no set date Nope, according to the last accounts it’s the first instalment this year, 5 days after the summer window closes (so presumably 10 October) then £10m by 31 August 2021, £10m by 31 August 2022, the last £10m has no agreed date as yet. That’s not to say the club couldn’t make earlier repayments if it wanted to (but doesn’t seem likely as there isn’t any interest accruing as far as I can see).
|
|
dezzly
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,872
|
Post by dezzly on Jul 29, 2020 13:33:48 GMT 1
I think the bank loan is paid of this year...but it’s the first instalment to dean..15m which should have already been paid.Then I believe it’s 10m this August 10 the following August and then a further 10 with no set date Nope, according to the last accounts it’s the first instalment this year, 5 days after the summer window closes (so presumably 10 October) then £10m by 31 August 2021, £10m by 31 August 2022, the last £10m has no agreed date as yet. That’s not to say the club couldn’t make earlier repayments if it wanted to (but doesn’t seem likely as there isn’t any interest accruing as far as I can see). Ah fair enough...I thought we had already paid him that first instalment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2020 13:39:09 GMT 1
Where did I say the money owed to DH wasn't a debt? Here - downatthemac.proboards.com/post/2705512Someone said, "aren't some of our parachute payments being used to pay off debts?" And you responded to say, "no, its going to DH".
|
|