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Post by Hellawell on Jul 13, 2021 14:04:36 GMT 1
Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but following their discussion about our finances on twitter, they have spent 5 minutes talking about us on their most recent podcast (12th July). Not the best listening, seems the bank loan we got was also secured against future parachute payments, leading to genuine concerns that once these payments run out we will struggle to keep up with commitments to our former chairman unless we keep flogging talent to fund the debt. I believe the terminology used was 'its definitely a concern, but not yet panic button time'. Link to pod, skip to about 26 mins in: open.spotify.com/show/7c7ltYVwnicbVz0uYTXAW5#:~:text=By%20Kieran%20Maguire%2C%20Kevin%20Day,is%20a%20Dap%20Dip%20production. |
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Post by incognito on Jul 13, 2021 14:53:09 GMT 1
Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but following their discussion about our finances on twitter, they have spent 5 minutes talking about us on their most recent podcast (12th July). Not the best listening, seems the bank loan we got was also secured against future parachute payments, leading to genuine concerns that once these payments run out we will struggle to keep up with commitments to our former chairman unless we keep flogging talent to fund the debt. I believe the terminology used was 'its definitely a concern, but not yet panic button time'. Link to pod, skip to about 26 mins in: open.spotify.com/show/7c7ltYVwnicbVz0uYTXAW5#:~:text=By%20Kieran%20Maguire%2C%20Kevin%20Day,is%20a%20Dap%20Dip%20production. As good as Kieran Maguire is, I don't believe his insight on HTAFC extends much beyond looking through the same published accounts that we all have access to. On the face of it though, we are scheduled to be making repayments of £7m, £7m and £6m in 2023-2025. On top of this, presumably PH will not be subsidising the annual £5 million deficit we have historically run at on our 'normal' Championship turnover. That's a lot to make up, and while there seem to be plans to boost the revenues linked to the stadium, the overwhelming bulk of this will likely have to come through player trading. |
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Post by kirkheatonterrier on Jul 13, 2021 15:23:06 GMT 1
And that is exactly why the deal between DH and PH stinks. It benefits nobody except those 2 individuals. Any player of any value will have to be sold to balance the books by the sounds of it
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Post by Clark W Griswald (CAS) on Jul 13, 2021 17:47:58 GMT 1
And that is exactly why the deal between DH and PH stinks. It benefits nobody except those 2 individuals. Any player of any value will have to be sold to balance the books by the sounds of it Haven't we always done that ? |
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Post by dugnet on Jul 13, 2021 19:37:09 GMT 1
And that is exactly why the deal between DH and PH stinks. It benefits nobody except those 2 individuals. Any player of any value will have to be sold to balance the books by the sounds of it Haven't we always done that ? We have but the disappointment some feel is our time in the Premier League wasn't the "step change " it was said to be. To find ourselves back to where we were, or arguably worse, doesn't reflect well on those in charge. We are where we are but I don't think it is unreasonable to have expected better. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 13, 2021 20:00:13 GMT 1
Haven't we always done that ? We have but the disappointment some feel is our time in the Premier League wasn't the "step change " it was said to be. To find ourselves back to where we were, or arguably worse, doesn't reflect well on those in charge. We are where we are but I don't think it is unreasonable to have expected better. Why do you think we are in an arguably worse position now to pre wagner ? |
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Post by Hellawell on Jul 13, 2021 20:55:49 GMT 1
We have but the disappointment some feel is our time in the Premier League wasn't the "step change " it was said to be. To find ourselves back to where we were, or arguably worse, doesn't reflect well on those in charge. We are where we are but I don't think it is unreasonable to have expected better. Why do you think we are in an arguably worse position now to pre wagner ? I'd say because we didn't have any debt to a former owner pre Wagner and I doubt without our premier League journey Hoyle would have had the opportunity to get someone to 'buy' the club for what they did and recoup his investment. Plus Hoyle was funding the club to the tune of about 5 million a year so whilst we sold some talent there was some backing/reinvestment. Phil is not able to fund the club to this extent so we'll cut out cloth accordingly, which I think suggests we're worse off now. Some speculation admittedly but I think it's reasonable to feel we're more likely to get relegated this season than any before, since our promotion to the championship. Though I hope this proves to be completely wrong. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 13, 2021 21:03:43 GMT 1
I dont see it that way. Financially we appear to be far more at parity with the rest of the division than we were in the early to mid 2010s. But time will tell . I listen to the price of football and was eager to hear what Keiran Maguires take would be but tbh I didn't hear anything that got me too surprised or concerned
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Post by impact on Jul 13, 2021 23:35:20 GMT 1
Why do you think we are in an arguably worse position now to pre wagner ? I'd say because we didn't have any debt to a former owner pre Wagner and I doubt without our premier League journey Hoyle would have had the opportunity to get someone to 'buy' the club for what they did and recoup his investment. Plus Hoyle was funding the club to the tune of about 5 million a year so whilst we sold some talent there was some backing/reinvestment. Phil is not able to fund the club to this extent so we'll cut out cloth accordingly, which I think suggests we're worse off now. Some speculation admittedly but I think it's reasonable to feel we're more likely to get relegated this season than any before, since our promotion to the championship. Though I hope this proves to be completely wrong. Dean would not have been able to keep putting 5m a year in. We'd have kept selling players. Eventually he'll have passed it on. Were going to get to a point where we get back to pre-Wagner spending levels but with little to no debt. That has to be better. |
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Post by tockyterrier on Jul 14, 2021 14:58:08 GMT 1
I listened to it but thought it actually highlighted how little he actually knows around circumstances of the clubs and only taking a balance sheet published on last years finances.
It was fairly obvious the bank loan was secured against future income. What else could it be secured against? It was also fairly well known that it was a short term loan to cover cash flow issues between player trading and receiving money from premier league.
PH and DH have both stated that the club was following the plan DH had in place regardless of whether he sold the club or not and that PH would fund it to a similar level to what DH had done. But player devaluation and income loss due to covid had an obvious impact on that plan.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2021 15:10:04 GMT 1
Haven't we always done that ? We have but the disappointment some feel is our time in the Premier League wasn't the "step change " it was said to be. To find ourselves back to where we were, or arguably worse, doesn't reflect well on those in charge. We are where we are but I don't think it is unreasonable to have expected better. You seem to forget that under Hoyle at the end the club owed him upwards of 50 million - whereas under PH the aim is to be debt free allied to which have a look at current Championship clubs wages to revenue ratios most of which are over 100% - Town's isn't- plus 3 Championship clubs under transfer embargoes - relatively were much better off than under Hoyle. Furthermore our training and coaching infrastructure is far better than what it was pre-premier league |
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Post by merseysideterrier on Jul 15, 2021 14:51:21 GMT 1
Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but following their discussion about our finances on twitter, they have spent 5 minutes talking about us on their most recent podcast (12th July). Not the best listening, seems the bank loan we got was also secured against future parachute payments, leading to genuine concerns that once these payments run out we will struggle to keep up with commitments to our former chairman unless we keep flogging talent to fund the debt. I believe the terminology used was 'its definitely a concern, but not yet panic button time'. Link to pod, skip to about 26 mins in: open.spotify.com/show/7c7ltYVwnicbVz0uYTXAW5#:~:text=By%20Kieran%20Maguire%2C%20Kevin%20Day,is%20a%20Dap%20Dip%20production. As good as Kieran Maguire is, I don't believe his insight on HTAFC extends much beyond looking through the same published accounts that we all have access to. On the face of it though, we are scheduled to be making repayments of £7m, £7m and £6m in 2023-2025. On top of this, presumably PH will not be subsidising the annual £5 million deficit we have historically run at on our 'normal' Championship turnover. That's a lot to make up, and while there seem to be plans to boost the revenues linked to the stadium, the overwhelming bulk of this will likely have to come through player trading. This. I'm a big fan of PoF and Keiran Maguire but he doesn't have any access to special knowledge or inside info. He's looked at the balance sheet and seen that we have liabilities, as do many football clubs. Whether the club has a plan to deal with that going forward (as PH claims) can't be seen in the accounts. |
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