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Post by southowram on Aug 14, 2021 22:05:37 GMT 1
Well Fulham look guaranteed to go up based on today’s performance. WBA are another yo-yo side. At least Norwich are currently up for their biennial relegation season.
We can’t compete with these teams and their budgets.
And we’re of course still asking: where did all our parachute money go?
Where does it leave us going forward?
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dogfight
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Post by dogfight on Aug 14, 2021 22:08:05 GMT 1
I'd fucking love to be a yoyo team
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Dan
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Post by Dan on Aug 14, 2021 22:14:40 GMT 1
Well Fulham look guaranteed to go up based on today’s performance. WBA are another yo-yo side. At least Norwich are currently up for their biennial relegation season. We can’t compete with these teams and their budgets. And we’re of course still asking: where did all our parachute money go? Where does it leave us going forward? Who's asking that? We all know where it went |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 14, 2021 22:18:27 GMT 1
Those of a certain age will remember the craze for those Coca-cola yo-yos in the late 80s & early 90s. The cool kids doing all sorts of tricks like "walking the dog" & "around the world".
I was shit at at. The yo-yo would drop down and just stay there. I now wonder if this is a metaphor.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 14, 2021 22:19:36 GMT 1
I'd fucking love to be a yoyo team Yep. Might as well try another sport because we're a fucking shit football team. |
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Post by alexdire on Aug 14, 2021 22:21:51 GMT 1
I'd fucking love to be a yoyo team You might get your wish. But not quite as you'd like. Think Rotherham rather than WBA. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 14, 2021 22:50:41 GMT 1
I'd fucking love to be a yoyo team You might get your wish. But not quite as you'd like. Think Rotherham rather than WBA. If somebody offered me relegation this season but coming back up at the first attempt, I'd take that as things stand now. |
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Post by Pozza on Aug 14, 2021 22:55:43 GMT 1
You might get your wish. But not quite as you'd like. Think Rotherham rather than WBA. If somebody offered me relegation this season but coming back up at the first attempt, I'd take that as things stand now. Most would, including myself. Issue is, I had a similar line of thought when we dropped out of The Premier League, 'at least we will be competitive' I told myself. How wrong I was. |
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Post by dugnet on Aug 14, 2021 23:11:12 GMT 1
If somebody offered me relegation this season but coming back up at the first attempt, I'd take that as things stand now. Most would, including myself. Issue is, I had a similar line of thought when we dropped out of The Premier League, 'at least we will be competitive' I told myself. How wrong I was. I take the point but be careful what you wish for. I wouldn't have any confidence that we would bounce back from League One with the current execution of the strategy in place. League One is every bit as tough. I have never believed that Town were entitled to anything but I do think we have always been capable of being better than we have been at times. Our club has more potential than those in charge seem to realise. We just seem to be incapable of embracing that potential. The "step change" we were promised hasn't materialised, more like we are in a poorer position than before our unexpected success. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 15, 2021 9:08:58 GMT 1
To me, we've always been a "Good 3rd tier side or a poor 2nd tier side". Anything outside of that is unusually good or unusually bad. Having had 2 years in the PL I had hoped that the legacy of that would be to increase our reasonable expectations. At least to being sometimes upper level, sometimes lower level but either way - a comfortable 2nd tier side.
Technically, we're still a "poor 2nd tier side", but we look like anything but, and there is little reason for confidence that next season we'll at least be a promotion chaser from the division below. At some stage we will turn the corner & improve. Bolton, Blackpool, Wigan & Coventry were all in worse strife than we're in & have all at least begun to recover. Unfortunately I don't know when, it will happen for us because we still don't appear to have heeded the warnings that have been so evident for so long.
I maintain that there's a lot we're doing right. Our academy looks night & day better than it was a few years ago. We're having success with "project players" with Sorba Thomas looking the most promising currently. But whilst the glaring errors remain unaddressed, we'll never make full use of the bits we're doing well.
If the evidence was that we'd learned our lessons, measures had been put in place to address them all and we were on the cusp of turning things around then I might be feeling a bit more optimistic, but they're not. I said at the end of last season that we needed a root & branch audit of how the club was being run. It was always going to be a big job, and it still is. That audit is not complete, no matter how much better this year's 2nd choice left back is.
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Post by dugnet on Aug 15, 2021 10:22:58 GMT 1
To me, we've always been a "Good 3rd tier side or a poor 2nd tier side". Anything outside of that is unusually good or unusually bad. Having had 2 years in the PL I had hoped that the legacy of that would be to increase our reasonable expectations. At least to being sometimes upper level, sometimes lower level but either way - a comfortable 2nd tier side. Technically, we're still a "poor 2nd tier side", but we look like anything but, and there is little reason for confidence that next season we'll at least be a promotion chaser from the division below. At some stage we will turn the corner & improve. Bolton, Blackpool, Wigan & Coventry were all in worse strife than we're in & have all at least begun to recover. Unfortunately I don't know when, it will happen for us because we still don't appear to have heeded the warnings that have been so evident for so long. I maintain that there's a lot we're doing right. Our academy looks night & day better than it was a few years ago. We're having success with "project players" with Sorba Thomas looking the most promising currently. But whilst the glaring errors remain unaddressed, we'll never make full use of the bits we're doing well. If the evidence was that we'd learned our lessons, measures had been put in place to address them all and we were on the cusp of turning things around then I might be feeling a bit more optimistic, but they're not. I said at the end of last season that we needed a root & branch audit of how the club was being run. It was always going to be a big job, and it still is. That audit is not complete, no matter how much better this year's 2nd choice left back is. A very good assessment of our situation. PH has to look things realistically and recognise the club is heading for relegation. DH, if he has any day to day involvement, needs to help PH. Both need to admit mistakes have been made and they need to make some quick decisions to give us a chance to stay in the Championship. This will take cash, we may not have, but persist along with CC and this squad will see us relegated. I don't see any other outcome at the moment unless there is a change. |
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chinaski
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Post by chinaski on Aug 15, 2021 10:32:38 GMT 1
Those of a certain age will remember the craze for those Coca-cola yo-yos in the late 80s & early 90s. The cool kids doing all sorts of tricks like "walking the dog" & "around the world". I was shit at at. The yo-yo would drop down and just stay there. I now wonder if this is a metaphor. Mid-nineties as a kid this became a craze as well. But nobody did any tricks with them (I mean I could walk the dog and cradle the baby, but who couldn't) it just became a competition of who had the shiniest, one with best ball bearings etc. Loved a yoyo and used to always have a go on the diablo in the circus tent at Glasto. |
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Post by runner76 on Aug 15, 2021 11:27:12 GMT 1
Scary that, in my mind, we have not felt like a strong, capable, entitled Championship since Bruce was manager…..
…yes, we did great under Wagner, but that came super quick, and as a surprise.
Under Bruce it felt like we expected we could have been promoted with the money Rubery invested…..and that now seems a LONG time ago!!
We are a yo yo side but sadly it’s up and down the entire leagues not the Premier to Championship!!
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Aug 15, 2021 11:33:59 GMT 1
We had the chance to make ourselves a yo yo team, that's the most galling thing about this, we really did have the chance to.
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Aug 15, 2021 11:39:49 GMT 1
Those of a certain age will remember the craze for those Coca-cola yo-yos in the late 80s & early 90s. The cool kids doing all sorts of tricks like "walking the dog" & "around the world". I was shit at at. The yo-yo would drop down and just stay there. I now wonder if this is a metaphor. Mid-nineties as a kid this became a craze as well. But nobody did any tricks with them ( I mean I could walk the dog and cradle the baby, but who couldn't) it just became a competition of who had the shiniest, one with best ball bearings etc. Loved a yoyo and used to always have a go on the diablo in the circus tent at Glasto. Me. |
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Post by yappledapple on Aug 23, 2021 12:20:21 GMT 1
Interesting TalkSport comments regarding Norwich City’s system of, what appears to be, their gaming of the system of promotion/relegation to and from the PL to create income and not really try and invest in their team to become competitive in the PL; a take the money and run way of running things...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2021 12:29:15 GMT 1
Norwich have brought in players for combined fees of over £50m this summer.
How much does he want them to spend?!
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Post by Wingman on Aug 23, 2021 12:35:27 GMT 1
Guest on commercial radio station makes a controversial comment, Twitter melts down. No surprises. Revenues linked to listening figures linked to spikey comments.
He’s talking shit of course; Norwich are doing things generally the right way. They may have spent £50m but they’ve brought in £35m for Buendia and could sell that prick Cantwell (I’ve not forgotten the assault on Stearman) for £20-30m if they needed to.
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Post by stevvy on Aug 23, 2021 12:37:37 GMT 1
Re the earlier posts about yo yo teams, one of the things that helps is that they do the exact thing we didn't do, which was keep the majority of their best players and add to them when relegated. Whereas we just got rid of some of our better players and replaced them with comfortably worse players, most of which were punts on kids or lower league players. In that sense it could be argued that they had ambition, they wanted to get back to the PL, whereas our ambition once we were relegated was to basically just make sure we don't end up in administration or do a Bolton (or a few other teams) where we fall through the leagues in a handful of years
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Post by 28901 on Aug 23, 2021 12:43:55 GMT 1
I'd fucking love to be a yoyo team You might get your wish. But not quite as you'd like. Think Rotherham rather than WBA. Trouble is every time we go down to the third it takes at least 10 years to come back and usually includes a trip to the basement. |
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Post by teddytheterrier on Aug 24, 2021 15:15:56 GMT 1
The likes of Norwich, West Brom and Fulham reinvest the parachute payments into the playing squad that is what it is there for.
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Post by rothwellterrier on Aug 24, 2021 15:25:08 GMT 1
The likes of Norwich, West Brom and Fulham reinvest the parachute payments into the playing squad that is what it is there for. I always thought they were there to service the costs (wages) of the squad you’ve built in the premier league? It’s an attempt to help promoted clubs raise their wage bill significantly from championship levels, with a safeguard that future parachute payments help in the event of relegation. Now, some clubs are lucky on relegation that they have some saleable assets, where the money can be used to reinvest in squad building. Other clubs splash out on dross that has little resale value but who’s contracts still need honouring. Luckily, the parachute payments help to honour those expensive mistakes. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2021 15:28:14 GMT 1
The likes of Norwich, West Brom and Fulham reinvest the parachute payments into the playing squad that is what it is there for. That is the total opposite of why the payments are issued. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Aug 24, 2021 16:55:00 GMT 1
Guest on commercial radio station makes a controversial comment, Twitter melts down. No surprises. Revenues linked to listening figures linked to spikey comments. He’s talking shit of course; Norwich are doing things generally the right way. They may have spent £50m but they’ve brought in £35m for Buendia and could sell that prick Cantwell (I’ve not forgotten the assault on Stearman) for £20-30m if they needed to. Max Aarons must be worth half a DHL (Dean Hoyle Loan) |
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Post by impact on Aug 24, 2021 17:44:08 GMT 1
The likes of Norwich, West Brom and Fulham reinvest the parachute payments into the playing squad that is what it is there for. Fulham overspend every time they're in the championship and gamble on promotion. Norwich don't really attempt to stay in the prem. They seemed happy last time not to spend and come straight back down. West Brom seem the most comparable case. Both the last times they've been relegated they've ran on a transfer surplus of 20m. They haven't spent anything on players this year and in 19/20 they were trying to cut their wage bill. Parachutes aren't there to reinvest into the playing squad, they're there to manage the drop in income until clubs lower their outgoings. Some clubs do that. Others like Fulham see it as a cash handout to go and spend a load more. |
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Post by imissmarcus on Aug 24, 2021 19:58:25 GMT 1
I sometimes wonder if we would have done better if we had gone down the 1st season, having had a really good go, and kept the majority of players to compete again in the Championship.
The second season killed the momentum with Wagner going and the bleak performances from December onwards. We then had to clear out as so many didn't want to be here anymore, or we didn't want them around.
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Post by terryya on Aug 24, 2021 22:07:38 GMT 1
I sometimes wonder if we would have done better if we had gone down the 1st season, having had a really good go, and kept the majority of players to compete again in the Championship. The second season killed the momentum with Wagner going and the bleak performances from December onwards. We then had to clear out as so many didn't want to be here anymore, or we didn't want them around. I've said many times that, with 20/20 hindsight, staying up in the PL is the worst thing that could have happened to us. |
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Post by Stewpot on Aug 29, 2021 20:22:31 GMT 1
I sometimes wonder if we would have done better if we had gone down the 1st season, having had a really good go, and kept the majority of players to compete again in the Championship. The second season killed the momentum with Wagner going and the bleak performances from December onwards. We then had to clear out as so many didn't want to be here anymore, or we didn't want them around. I've said many times that, with 20/20 hindsight, staying up in the PL is the worst thing that could have happened to us. The problem was not staying up, it was the fact all the people responsible for strengthening the squad went awol, took their eye off the ball, call it what you will, but we didn't make any early signings for the 2nd PL season, then they panic bought all the shite it's taken us 3 years to offload. A good call would have been to say when nothing of quality materialised, let's carry on with what we have. I am sure if we had we'd be in a much stronger position. |
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Post by morleyterrier on Aug 29, 2021 20:26:18 GMT 1
Well Fulham look guaranteed to go up based on today’s performance. WBA are another yo-yo side. At least Norwich are currently up for their biennial relegation season. We can’t compete with these teams and their budgets. And we’re of course still asking: where did all our parachute money go? Where does it leave us going forward? We all know where our money has gone: Shit Players and Hoyle. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2021 22:17:27 GMT 1
Well Fulham look guaranteed to go up based on today’s performance. WBA are another yo-yo side. At least Norwich are currently up for their biennial relegation season. We can’t compete with these teams and their budgets. And we’re of course still asking: where did all our parachute money go? Where does it leave us going forward? We all know where our money has gone: Shit Players and Hoyle. Wrong, just gone on shit players, it came from Hoyle & still does, but just less of it! |
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