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Post by sabailand on Oct 11, 2021 11:37:56 GMT 1
In a world where there was no promotion and relegation, and say the championship was a closed shop, no reward for success but no drop down for failure would you still go watch town, in effect a series of jumped up friendlies that mean nothing.
Its easy to say what we`d do to be honest, but would we put it into practice, the thought of a league where exitement didnt exist dosnt bare thinking about and i reckon i wouldnt buy a season ticket but might occasionally pay on the day if nothing better to do.
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Post by turbo2 on Oct 11, 2021 11:48:30 GMT 1
In a world where there was no promotion and relegation, and say the championship was a closed shop, no reward for success but no drop down for failure would you still go watch town, in effect a series of jumped up friendlies that mean nothing. Its easy to say what we`d do to be honest, but would we put it into practice, the thought of a league where exitement didnt exist dosnt bare thinking about and i reckon i wouldnt buy a season ticket but might occasionally pay on the day if nothing better to do. You remove the word competitive for me if relegation is taken away. I’d stop going for sure and would be disgusted if our club voted for such a thing |
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Post by benhomly on Oct 11, 2021 11:53:46 GMT 1
I wouldn’t go in those circumstances, neither would I go if the PL was a closed shop and the EFL became the new pyramid. What’s the point if you’ll never get the opportunity to win the right to play the best teams in the country. So on that basis I would also stop going if the European super league ever comes to fruition.
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Post by sabailand on Oct 11, 2021 11:58:51 GMT 1
In a world where there was no promotion and relegation, and say the championship was a closed shop, no reward for success but no drop down for failure would you still go watch town, in effect a series of jumped up friendlies that mean nothing. Its easy to say what we`d do to be honest, but would we put it into practice, the thought of a league where exitement didnt exist dosnt bare thinking about and i reckon i wouldnt buy a season ticket but might occasionally pay on the day if nothing better to do. You remove the word competitive for me if relegation is taken away. I’d stop going for sure and would be disgusted if our club voted for such a thing I agree, even though the last two seasons have been poor our interest hasn't waivered mainly due to the threat of relegation, we didnt like the fact we were down there but it kept us interested thats for sure, the disappointment after a deafeat, the satisfaction after an all too rare victory along with out relegation opponents losing meant we were riveted until it was mathematically certain we`d stay up. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Oct 11, 2021 12:01:48 GMT 1
I wouldn’t go in those circumstances, neither would I go if the PL was a closed shop and the EFL became the new pyramid. What’s the point if you’ll never get the opportunity to win the right to play the best teams in the country. So on that basis I would also stop going if the European super league ever comes to fruition. What if the European Super League were created but teams got their on merit, with promotion and relegation from, for example, the top 5 leagues in Europe? France, Germany, Italy, Spain and England each have 4 teams at the start, and the bottom team from each country get's relegated to be replaced by the top team from the EPL, La Liga etc? Of course, this means that you cold have teams finishing high up the Super League getting relegated while teams finishing below them stay in, so would never happen, but hypothetically... |
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Oct 11, 2021 13:01:27 GMT 1
I wouldn’t go in those circumstances, neither would I go if the PL was a closed shop and the EFL became the new pyramid. What’s the point if you’ll never get the opportunity to win the right to play the best teams in the country. So on that basis I would also stop going if the European super league ever comes to fruition. What if the European Super League were created but teams got their on merit, with promotion and relegation from, for example, the top 5 leagues in Europe? France, Germany, Italy, Spain and England each have 4 teams at the start, and the bottom team from each country get's relegated to be replaced by the top team from the EPL, La Liga etc? Of course, this means that you cold have teams finishing high up the Super League getting relegated while teams finishing below them stay in, so would never happen, but hypothetically... Why restrict a countries "share" of places, bottom drop out and the 5 top leagues play off? in a mini league? |
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Post by benhomly on Oct 11, 2021 13:31:04 GMT 1
I wouldn’t go in those circumstances, neither would I go if the PL was a closed shop and the EFL became the new pyramid. What’s the point if you’ll never get the opportunity to win the right to play the best teams in the country. So on that basis I would also stop going if the European super league ever comes to fruition. What if the European Super League were created but teams got their on merit, with promotion and relegation from, for example, the top 5 leagues in Europe? France, Germany, Italy, Spain and England each have 4 teams at the start, and the bottom team from each country get's relegated to be replaced by the top team from the EPL, La Liga etc? Of course, this means that you cold have teams finishing high up the Super League getting relegated while teams finishing below them stay in, so would never happen, but hypothetically... Yes that scenario would probably keep my interest enough to keep going even though like you say it would never happen. Imagine Jason Cundy if we ever got to the European Super League 😂 |
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deo1
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Post by deo1 on Oct 11, 2021 13:32:54 GMT 1
No I wouldn’t go, football at the moment is quite boring in general and getting rid of the excitement of promotion and relegation wowild just ruin it all together.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Oct 11, 2021 14:01:58 GMT 1
I don't do friendlies
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2021 14:48:49 GMT 1
I wouldn’t go in those circumstances, neither would I go if the PL was a closed shop and the EFL became the new pyramid. What’s the point if you’ll never get the opportunity to win the right to play the best teams in the country. So on that basis I would also stop going if the European super league ever comes to fruition. Different thing just seen derby have appealed there twelvebpoint deduction here we go again |
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Oct 11, 2021 15:00:01 GMT 1
It would halt my support too. Nobody in their right mind would support a Championship closed-shop; it goes against every ethic there is in the sporting world (although I honestly think there are enough narcissistic scum around who think that different rules might apply to them and the clubs they possess). Fantastic how the ESL was so quickly dismissed, butI think the embarrassment of those "top" clubs from that shoddy affair should be projected by the media for decades into the mindsets of normal football fans - keep reminding people every now and again what they tried to put on. But it's not going to happen is it (rhetorical)?
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Post by orinoco on Oct 11, 2021 15:20:16 GMT 1
I would still go watch, i watched rugby for years with bo promotion or relegation, you get used to it.
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Post by lossiemouthtownfan on Oct 11, 2021 15:59:02 GMT 1
That's the American way.
They just move the teams around different cities and either go up a league or down depending on what the franchise wants to do.
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Post by detox on Oct 11, 2021 16:18:15 GMT 1
My instinct says no I wouldn't watch, but then there's still a league table and you'd still want to be top of it wouldn't you ? Is it ALL just about promotion...playing at a higher level ? The PL clubs don't get promoted albeit they get the carrot of European football..maybe that's what BigDaddy was alluding to, we'd forgo promotion if we got entry into a european tournement although unlikey we'd get the likes of Barcelona but 2nd or 3rd tier european clubs who's names we can't pronounce and we're clueless as to which country they come from..
I suppose next thing is the FA cup will only have 16 teams in it, all from the PL....football is killing itself, sold out to the new paymasters..
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Post by keithAM11532 on Oct 11, 2021 17:16:48 GMT 1
In a world where there was no promotion and relegation, and say the championship was a closed shop, no reward for success but no drop down for failure would you still go watch town, in effect a series of jumped up friendlies that mean nothing. Its easy to say what we`d do to be honest, but would we put it into practice, the thought of a league where exitement didnt exist dosnt bare thinking about and i reckon i wouldnt buy a season ticket but might occasionally pay on the day if nothing better to do. This is the model for all elite professional sport here in the USA. NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB no promotion(obviously) and no relegation. You are playing a season to try and get in the grand final(Superbowl, Stanley cup ect. You would be surprised , but these teams get a lot of spectators. There are lower levels that have a similar structure. For example, the AHL (American Hockey League) strive to play for the Calder Cup. So imagine if we were a Championship club, playing for a Wembley final each year- -would you still go, or is it he lure of the Premier League that is the major draw. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Oct 11, 2021 17:28:57 GMT 1
It’s a massive NO for me.
No way would I go under those circumstances- it’s the hope that keeps me going, take that away and I completely fail to see any point in it.
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Post by sabailand on Oct 11, 2021 17:57:26 GMT 1
In a world where there was no promotion and relegation, and say the championship was a closed shop, no reward for success but no drop down for failure would you still go watch town, in effect a series of jumped up friendlies that mean nothing. Its easy to say what we`d do to be honest, but would we put it into practice, the thought of a league where exitement didnt exist dosnt bare thinking about and i reckon i wouldnt buy a season ticket but might occasionally pay on the day if nothing better to do. This is the model for all elite professional sport here in the USA. NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB no promotion(obviously) and no relegation. You are playing a season to try and get in the grand final(Superbowl, Stanley cup ect. You would be surprised , but these teams get a lot of spectators. There are lower levels that have a similar structure. For example, the AHL (American Hockey League) strive to play for the Calder Cup. So imagine if we were a Championship club, playing for a Wembley final each year- -would you still go, or is it he lure of the Premier League that is the major draw. Thing is in America a lot of sports fans know nothing else, they`re used to the franchise system, something like that would be totally alien to most UK football fans, its all about what you`re used to, Promotion to us superbowl/stanley cup etc to others, it might be something i might get used to but it dosnt initially appeal in the slightest. |
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Post by lossiemouthtownfan on Oct 11, 2021 18:00:01 GMT 1
In a world where there was no promotion and relegation, and say the championship was a closed shop, no reward for success but no drop down for failure would you still go watch town, in effect a series of jumped up friendlies that mean nothing. Its easy to say what we`d do to be honest, but would we put it into practice, the thought of a league where exitement didnt exist dosnt bare thinking about and i reckon i wouldnt buy a season ticket but might occasionally pay on the day if nothing better to do. This is the model for all elite professional sport here in the USA. NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB no promotion(obviously) and no relegation. You are playing a season to try and get in the grand final(Superbowl, Stanley cup ect. You would be surprised , but these teams get a lot of spectators. There are lower levels that have a similar structure. For example, the AHL (American Hockey League) strive to play for the Calder Cup. So imagine if we were a Championship club, playing for a Wembley final each year- -would you still go, or is it he lure of the Premier League that is the major draw. Was going to mention this in my earlier post. All the American sports are franchises. So NHL & MLB teams own/co-operate with teams lower down the pyramid. So an NHL team can own a team in the AHL and then the tier below, the ECHL, same in baseball. They move players between these teams as they see fit. The only way these teams move up or down is if the franchise sells the team to another franchise in a city that wants an AHL/MLB team. So if we were co-owned by PSG we could get Messi for a few games while he worked his way back to fitness. On the downside, we'd have to play Luton every year. |
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Post by townohiofan on Oct 12, 2021 1:25:07 GMT 1
I think if you gave north american sports fans the choice between a closed shop and promotion/relegation for an upstart league they'd generally go with promotion/relegation. It's mostly a question of feasibility and ownership willingness.
For the NFL it wouldn't make sense because a cup competition between a 4th division and 1st division team wouldn't just be uncompetitive but would be dangerous because of the sheer size of the top teams.
It would be a great fit for professional basketball but that would likely involve getting rid of the college basketball system (which is more popular than the NBA in many areas).
Baseball would also be a great fit but the minor league system is a long term institution that stands in the way of change. There used to be many independent minor league teams that made fans care more about those leagues instead of them being social events (this is documented in "The Battered Bastards of Baseball" documentary). Although it'd be a great fit for baseball it'll never happen because baseball is the most tradition rich sport in the USA and people are super resistant to change.
There is some hope for promotion/relegation in Canada with the organizers of the Canadian Premier League stating a desire for that system as they expand. Their plan would include a salary cap, so, it would still differ from the model in place elsewhere. It'll never happen in the USA though. Many MLS teams are worth more than what Newcastle was just sold. Those owners will never change the structure since it would greatly lower those valuations. It's sad that promotion/relegation isn't feasible here because there'd be a lot more talent coming out of the USA if it were in place. The current structure means that many kids don't grow up around teams and that makes playing at a high level in the youth ranks extremely expensive/few poor kids ever play. Also, the financial success of this model has had an influence on others trying to force closed shops (i.e. European Super League and Liga MX instituting financial requirements that make promotion near impossible).
On the positive end, there are some very interesting structures in place in the Americas that I haven't seen elsewhere. The Brazilian system where teams play in a traditional pyramid system and a regional league simultaneously is a pretty interesting compromise. Elsewhere, the idea of having split spring and fall seasons can help to increase the significance of each match.
That all said, people here aren't against promotion/relegation. In fact, many people will mention that as a chief reason why they chose to support a team in England (while also 95% of the time supporting one of the big 6 clubs that are unlikely to ever experience promotion or relegation, but that's a conversation for another day).
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Post by capitalterrier on Oct 12, 2021 6:31:35 GMT 1
The question is, what would we all do instead?
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Post by 28901 on Oct 12, 2021 18:19:02 GMT 1
The GREAT thing about the pyramid is when you're on it you can go all the way to the Champions league. Brighouse Town could be there in 9 years,
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Post by tvor on Oct 12, 2021 19:57:43 GMT 1
I wouldn’t go in those circumstances, neither would I go if the PL was a closed shop and the EFL became the new pyramid. What’s the point if you’ll never get the opportunity to win the right to play the best teams in the country. So on that basis I would also stop going if the European super league ever comes to fruition. What if the European Super League were created but teams got their on merit, with promotion and relegation from, for example, the top 5 leagues in Europe? France, Germany, Italy, Spain and England each have 4 teams at the start, and the bottom team from each country get's relegated to be replaced by the top team from the EPL, La Liga etc? Of course, this means that you cold have teams finishing high up the Super League getting relegated while teams finishing below them stay in, so would never happen, but hypothetically... Can’t see relegation happening at all. The super league is an attempt to create a closed shop and guarantee income. The current system allowed Leicester City a shot at the champs league and they don’t like that at all so it’s clear the the clubs involved don’t care about the pyramid or the ‘legacy’ fans. They only need the existing leagues so they still have a chance of winning something. |
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Post by westislandterrier on Oct 12, 2021 20:06:43 GMT 1
In a world where there was no promotion and relegation, and say the championship was a closed shop, no reward for success but no drop down for failure would you still go watch town, in effect a series of jumped up friendlies that mean nothing. Its easy to say what we`d do to be honest, but would we put it into practice, the thought of a league where exitement didnt exist dosnt bare thinking about and i reckon i wouldnt buy a season ticket but might occasionally pay on the day if nothing better to do. It’s a resounding NO NO NO and NEVER EVER EVER on this one for me sabailand Jeez I still have a glow from the joy of Reading at Wembley on 29/5/2017 and Sheffield Utd at the same stadium in 2012 ! Sensational nerve ending drama for thousands of Huddersfield Town fans, and to have that and the potential of that taken away would be brutal indeed.. Even the heartbreak of Peterborough at Old Trafford was still an exciting build up and the loss and inevitable deflation is part of the theatre of it all ! Even relegation battles are dramatic, the last day in delayed season 2019/20 where almost safe, but a freak combination of results could’ve seen us down - to last season and not safe until the penultimate week - all sheer drama and emotional rollercoasters that would go if it became no promotion or no relegation... Nope it’s just fine the way it is... and even though the play offs are relatively fairly new, and can be sore on the team finishing third, no one can say they’re not dramatic and stimulate interest towards the last match day and several ones before often enough also.. The League’s are perfect and dramatic the way they are in my humble opinion ! |
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Post by lochnessterrier on Oct 13, 2021 6:12:45 GMT 1
It's easily fixed. Split the Championship into two leagues of 12 and have promotion, relegation and a couple of cup competitions. With a bit of imagination you can always create interest.
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Post by benhomly on Oct 13, 2021 8:12:57 GMT 1
The other scenario that I left out before that would see me call it a day would be if Pep got his way and PL 'B' teams were allowed to join the pyramid.
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Post by goodbet on Oct 13, 2021 8:13:53 GMT 1
It's easily fixed. Split the Championship into two leagues of 12 and have promotion, relegation and a couple of cup competitions. With a bit of imagination you can always create interest. With thinking like that you should apply for a job with the FA or Football League  For me it would be the death of football, no chance to dream. How may different clubs have we seen come up in to the league system since they scrapped the old system where they had to apply to get in to the league. The change to automatic promotion and relegation has been a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately it has brought a slight case of over spending to some in the lower reaches to get in to the league system. Does anyone remember Wigan applying to get in to the Scottish league because the League teams would not vote to drop (one of their own) the bottom team of the old 4th division in to what was seen as the abyss of non-league football. Bradford PA propped up the league for years on the basis that they never had to invest in the team as the prospect of being relegated was unthinkable. |
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Post by goodbet on Oct 13, 2021 8:23:44 GMT 1
The other scenario that I left out before that would see me call it a day would be if Pep got his way and PL 'B' teams were allowed to join the pyramid. There would be no or very few premiership loans to clubs like Town if they were allowed to join the league. They should reintroduce the old central league system where they can give the second string a game against each other. Not a really competitive league but it would help to keep the players fit and get the edge they need from actually playing games. Clubs like Chelsea and Manchester City can have another team playing, given that this is single players in 15 other teams spread around England and Europe, but this is in the main for players coming through from their youth teams not the second string. |
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Post by sabailand on Oct 13, 2021 14:48:10 GMT 1
The other scenario that I left out before that would see me call it a day would be if Pep got his way and PL 'B' teams were allowed to join the pyramid. There would be no or very few premiership loans to clubs like Town if they were allowed to join the league. They should reintroduce the old central league system where they can give the second string a game against each other. Not a really competitive league but it would help to keep the players fit and get the edge they need from actually playing games. Clubs like Chelsea and Manchester City can have another team playing, given that this is single players in 15 other teams spread around England and Europe, but this is in the main for players coming through from their youth teams not the second string. Sometimes used go to central league games back at Leeds rd, saw some good players over the years and when the opponents had a few star names it added a few to the crowd. |
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 14, 2021 7:33:09 GMT 1
The only way I could justify having no promotion or relegation would be if there weren't enough teams in existence to justify having more than 1 league.
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