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Post by rugbyterrier on Jul 8, 2022 19:47:03 GMT 1
Living in Warwickshire means I can garner the views of fans of other clubs in the same division.
Coventry fan said why don't Town spend a little bit , they got Goykeres for a million last year, what an asset.
Birmingham fan, our club is a car crash why are Town sinking the ship for an apporth of tar.
Luton fan, we only get 9,000 and we are outbidding you for players, what's going on?
All of them have a sneaky admiration for Town and are bamboozled .
So am I.
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crux
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Post by crux on Jul 8, 2022 19:53:23 GMT 1
The answer really is simple, we're skint.
We got promoted to the PL, spent all the money and the first years parachute payments before we were relegated and bought mostly shite players. Three years later we still owe approximately £30M+ to the current CEO/prospective owner and he wants it back.
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Post by mrg on Jul 8, 2022 20:07:37 GMT 1
Birmingham fan, town are a car crash, are they having a giraffe. I know some brum fans who have had no idea what's going on there since 2011. Town simply aren't that organised, which won't play out well for the owners or the club. If we sold obrian and sorba for top dollar, whats the plan, pay off the fairy-tale loan for tax purposes. Its hardly exciting is it.
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Post by rugbyterrier on Jul 8, 2022 20:12:55 GMT 1
Birmingham fan, town are a car crash, are they having a giraffe. I know some brum fans who have had no idea what's going on there since 2011. Town simply aren't that organised, which won't play out well for the owners or the club. If we sold obrian and sorba for top dollar, whats the plan, pay off the fairy-tale loan for tax purposes. Its hardly exciting is it. Sorry,meant he was saying his club were a car crash when I put "our" , not enough commas of full sentences. |
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Post by richhtfc on Jul 8, 2022 20:15:34 GMT 1
Nobody ever has anything good to say about us. It’s one of our strengths that we try to be unconventional and focus on ourselves, especially this last year or two. Fuck em
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Jul 8, 2022 20:43:26 GMT 1
Other fans views, the views of the media …….
I really do not care.
Twice in the last 5 years we have confounded the “experts “
No one knows the club like we do and I’d prefer it to stay this way.
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stable
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Post by stable on Jul 8, 2022 20:50:36 GMT 1
I'd wager that we're way less skint than the vast majority of clubs in the division. The amount of money they keep spending on players and wages, compared to their income, is eyewatering.
In the cold light of day we are trying to compete whilst being self-sufficient. Yes, plenty of mistakes have been made in the past ,and not making fancy signings might not be sexy, but there is no guarantee that all of these players will gel or produce.
Loads of teams have looked strong on paper before a ball has been kicked and been shite to average once the season has kicked off (Bristol City, Stoke, West Brom etc. in recent seasons). Then they are stuck with players they can't shift on lucrative contracts, especially if they are a smaller side like Bristol City who are now on the FFP vinegar stroke after almost getting relegated (Despite having a ridiculously rich chairman). If teams Luton or Millwall don't go up in the next year or two, how precarious a position will they have put themselves in?
Regarding Carlos, it's obvious that him and his assistant have been offered much better terms elsewhere or there is no way on earth they would have both walked. If they've then tried to use this as a bargaining tool to try to alter our strict wage and/or transfer budget, I don't know, but it's what I'm reading between the lines.
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Post by mrg on Jul 8, 2022 21:05:20 GMT 1
Birmingham fan, town are a car crash, are they having a giraffe. I know some brum fans who have had no idea what's going on there since 2011. Town simply aren't that organised, which won't play out well for the owners or the club. If we sold obrian and sorba for top dollar, whats the plan, pay off the fairy-tale loan for tax purposes. Its hardly exciting is it. Sorry,meant he was saying his club were a car crash when I put "our" , not enough commas of full sentences. 🤣 makes sense lol |
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Post by Clark W Griswald (CAS) on Jul 8, 2022 21:14:05 GMT 1
Other fans views, the views of the media ……. I really do not care. Twice in the last 5 years we have confounded the “experts “ No one knows the club like we do and I’d prefer it to stay this way. Exactly this. Whoever we play next I look on their forum to gauge opinion, I rarely comment. Opposition fans opinion on how our club is run means the square root of fook all IMO. without social media we wouldn't even know |
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Post by rugbyterrier on Jul 8, 2022 21:22:15 GMT 1
Sorry,meant he was saying his club were a car crash when I put "our" , not enough commas of full sentences. 🤣 makes sense lol Sorry, on the sherry. |
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Post by keithAM11532 on Jul 8, 2022 21:27:09 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2022 21:29:50 GMT 1
Alternative view - most, if not all clubs in the Championship are "skint".
Yep, including the ones who are spending. Especially the ones who are spending.
Look at Derby and Wednesday in the last few seasons. Yeah, I know they're not Championship clubs - which is kind of my point.
Look at Bristol City and Reading. Look at their wage-bill to turnover ratios.
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joek
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Post by joek on Jul 8, 2022 21:39:48 GMT 1
Alternative view - most, if not all clubs in the Championship are "skint". Yep, including the ones who are spending. Especially the ones who are spending. Look at Derby and Wednesday in the last few seasons. Yeah, I know they're not Championship clubs - which is kind of my point. Look at Bristol City and Reading. Look at their wage-bill to turnover ratios. I’d rather Town live within their means than spunk a load of cash and risk doing a Derby. It’s not glamorous but it’s how football is. Everyone chucking their toys out of the pram - including Cowshed Loyal - needs to have a look at themselves. Football clubs at our level just aren’t self-sustaining. Deal with it. |
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Post by richhtfc on Jul 8, 2022 21:42:28 GMT 1
I'd wager that we're way less skint than the vast majority of clubs in the division. The amount of money they keep spending on players and wages, compared to their income, is eyewatering. In the cold light of day we are trying to compete whilst being self-sufficient. Yes, plenty of mistakes have been made in the past ,and not making fancy signings might not be sexy, but there is no guarantee that all of these players will gel or produce. Loads of teams have looked strong on paper before a ball has been kicked and been shite to average once the season has kicked off (Bristol City, Stoke, West Brom etc. in recent seasons). Then they are stuck with players they can't shift on lucrative contracts, especially if they are a smaller side like Bristol City who are now on the FFP vinegar stroke after almost getting relegated (Despite having a ridiculously rich chairman). If teams Luton or Millwall don't go up in the next year or two, how precarious a position will they have put themselves in? Regarding Carlos, it's obvious that him and his assistant have been offered much better terms elsewhere or there is no way on earth they would have both walked. If they've then tried to use this as a bargaining tool to try to alter our strict wage and/or transfer budget, I don't know, but it's what I'm reading between the lines. Sense. For me this is where we are. The difference between a ‘big’ player and a very decent one is minimal and dependent on so much luck and circumstance. I’m very happy by the way Town is currently being run, just disappointed that Carlos doesn’t want to be part of it. |
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Post by rugbyterrier on Jul 8, 2022 21:42:48 GMT 1
Fino. It's since I got a job at Rugby School.😄 |
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Post by sykeylad on Jul 8, 2022 21:50:35 GMT 1
Bloody hell, a thread full of good sense.
Refreshing. 🍺
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2022 21:56:23 GMT 1
Alternative view - most, if not all clubs in the Championship are "skint". Yep, including the ones who are spending. Especially the ones who are spending. Look at Derby and Wednesday in the last few seasons. Yeah, I know they're not Championship clubs - which is kind of my point. Look at Bristol City and Reading. Look at their wage-bill to turnover ratios. I’d rather Town live within their means than spunk a load of cash and risk doing a Derby. It’s not glamorous but it’s how football is. Everyone chucking their toys out of the pram - including Cowshed Loyal - needs to have a look at themselves. Football clubs at our level just aren’t self-sustaining. Deal with it. Exactly this. We've been down that road. I know bugger all-about finance, but I do know ugly numbers when I see them - and I've seen some pretty ugly numbers. Even then, it's not doing a Derby I'd be concerned about - it's what's going to happen soon to one or two Championship clubs; those ratios aren't sustainable, even a layman like me knows that. People calling for a club with "ambition" - well, cool, but not if the ambition is a shit-or-bust gamble on the future of the club. I'd love a £3m striker, but I'd also like to have a club to support in three years time. |
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Post by rockwall on Jul 8, 2022 21:57:20 GMT 1
Birmingham fan, town are a car crash, are they having a giraffe. I know some brum fans who have had no idea what's going on there since 2011. Town simply aren't that organised, which won't play out well for the owners or the club. If we sold obrian and sorba for top dollar, whats the plan, pay off the fairy-tale loan for tax purposes. Its hardly exciting is it. The only club more of a car crash than us in our division is Birmingham |
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stable
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Post by stable on Jul 8, 2022 22:18:16 GMT 1
I think I'll stick to this thread :-)
Another thing that I've only just thought of - Football club loans. Either taken out by a club or as leverage by a new owner.
As it is such a high risk business, then even in the recent days of really low interest rates these were at a minimum of 10% interest. Can you imagine what these will be with the interest rates now? They'll be like enormous pay-day loans.
Folk moan about Dean taking his loans back (I'm not sure of why, as I thought most of it was the loan he put in bridging the gap when we first got promoted before we got paid, although I may well be wrong so don't quote me on that ) but arguments on its merit aside, he's not charged any interest as far as I am aware.
Can you just imagine the amount of interest on a 10/15/20% loan on ten of millions of pounds will compound to over 5 or 10 years? It doesn't even bear thinking about
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2022 22:31:57 GMT 1
I think I'll stick to this thread :-) Another thing that I've only just thought of - Football club loans. Either taken out by a club or as leverage by a new owner. As it is such a high risk business, then even in the recent days of really low interest rates these were at a minimum of 10% interest. Can you imagine what these will be with the interest rates now? They'll be like enormous pay-day loans. Folk moan about Dean taking his loans back (I'm not sure of why, as I thought most of it was the loan he put in bridging the gap when we first got promoted before we got paid, although I may well be wrong so don't quote me on that ) but arguments on its merit aside, he's not charged any interest as far as I am aware.
Can you just imagine the amount of interest on a 10/15/20% loan on ten of millions of pounds will compound to over 5 or 10 years? It doesn't even bear thinking about Pretty certain he didn't. And with inflation as it is, and interest rates as they are - that's a significant loss. I can only speak for myself, but I don't think I could afford to forfeit the interest on a £50m loan in the current climate. In fact, that might almost pay for a couple of litres of petrol! |
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stable
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Post by stable on Jul 8, 2022 23:10:41 GMT 1
I think I'll stick to this thread :-) Another thing that I've only just thought of - Football club loans. Either taken out by a club or as leverage by a new owner. As it is such a high risk business, then even in the recent days of really low interest rates these were at a minimum of 10% interest. Can you imagine what these will be with the interest rates now? They'll be like enormous pay-day loans. Folk moan about Dean taking his loans back (I'm not sure of why, as I thought most of it was the loan he put in bridging the gap when we first got promoted before we got paid, although I may well be wrong so don't quote me on that ) but arguments on its merit aside, he's not charged any interest as far as I am aware.
Can you just imagine the amount of interest on a 10/15/20% loan on ten of millions of pounds will compound to over 5 or 10 years? It doesn't even bear thinking about Pretty certain he didn't. And with inflation as it is, and interest rates as they are - that's a significant loss. I can only speak for myself, but I don't think I could afford to forfeit the interest on a £50m loan in the current climate. In fact, that might almost pay for a couple of litres of petrol! Bit of an exaggeration... 3 or 4 litres  Seriously though, you're right. It's not all about that £50m - he's a business man, he knows about finance - he could have quite easily pretty much doubled that had he invested it savvily over the period in question. But very few people even consider that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2022 23:23:56 GMT 1
Seriously though, you're right. It's not all about that £50m - he's a business man, he knows about finance - he could have quite easily pretty much doubled that had he invested it savvily over the period in question. But very few people even consider that. He'd have made money simply by sticking it in a bog-standard savings account, never mind shrewd investments. He'd have more of it now, in real terms, had he chucked a few million quid into the slot machines at Blackpool pier. I'm not going to get into the debate as to the rights or wrongs of calling in a loan - though the clue's in the name! - but it's something people might want to think about. (Not yourself, stable - you obviously get it) |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jul 8, 2022 23:52:56 GMT 1
I think I'll stick to this thread :-) Another thing that I've only just thought of - Football club loans. Either taken out by a club or as leverage by a new owner. As it is such a high risk business, then even in the recent days of really low interest rates these were at a minimum of 10% interest. Can you imagine what these will be with the interest rates now? They'll be like enormous pay-day loans. Folk moan about Dean taking his loans back (I'm not sure of why, as I thought most of it was the loan he put in bridging the gap when we first got promoted before we got paid, although I may well be wrong so don't quote me on that ) but arguments on its merit aside, he's not charged any interest as far as I am aware. Can you just imagine the amount of interest on a 10/15/20% loan on ten of millions of pounds will compound to over 5 or 10 years? It doesn't even bear thinking about It's a good point, this. As much as I have been starting to get more than a bit cheesed off with DH, he doesn't charge interest and that is something a fair few chairman out there do. That or taking dividends each year. |
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Post by ritchie on Jul 9, 2022 1:43:16 GMT 1
I think I'll stick to this thread :-) Another thing that I've only just thought of - Football club loans. Either taken out by a club or as leverage by a new owner. As it is such a high risk business, then even in the recent days of really low interest rates these were at a minimum of 10% interest. Can you imagine what these will be with the interest rates now? They'll be like enormous pay-day loans. Folk moan about Dean taking his loans back (I'm not sure of why, as I thought most of it was the loan he put in bridging the gap when we first got promoted before we got paid, although I may well be wrong so don't quote me on that ) but arguments on its merit aside, he's not charged any interest as far as I am aware. Can you just imagine the amount of interest on a 10/15/20% loan on ten of millions of pounds will compound to over 5 or 10 years? It doesn't even bear thinking about It's a good point, this. As much as I have been starting to get more than a bit cheesed off with DH, he doesn't charge interest and that is something a fair few chairman out there do. That or taking dividends each year. Its a mad world where a wealthy man can willingly purchase something, choose to spend a load of money under it's name, then be commended for not charging interest on the money he himself spent. I have very little knowledge on finances, and im sure its been covered, but id be interested to know how it all works tax wise. Has the money he's put in saved him a few bob in taxes? |
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Post by mrg on Jul 9, 2022 9:13:31 GMT 1
It's a good point, this. As much as I have been starting to get more than a bit cheesed off with DH, he doesn't charge interest and that is something a fair few chairman out there do. That or taking dividends each year. Its a mad world where a wealthy man can willingly purchase something, choose to spend a load of money under it's name, then be commended for not charging interest on the money he himself spent. I have very little knowledge on finances, and im sure its been covered, but id be interested to know how it all works tax wise. Has the money he's put in saved him a few bob in taxes? It's exactly about this Richie. Tax is of course paid on profit yearly. So the idea for most football clubs, imho, is to keep below profit. Now if course some make money some years and then there's those chasing the pipe dream. If you've thrown £40/50m at something and you get a chance to get that back you do it. And in this instance, the way it's done is by paying a "loan" back to keep everything close to 0 in the profit column for 3/10 years, which town seem to be doing very well 😀 |
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jul 9, 2022 9:56:33 GMT 1
It's a good point, this. As much as I have been starting to get more than a bit cheesed off with DH, he doesn't charge interest and that is something a fair few chairman out there do. That or taking dividends each year. Its a mad world where a wealthy man can willingly purchase something, choose to spend a load of money under it's name, then be commended for not charging interest on the money he himself spent. I have very little knowledge on finances, and im sure its been covered, but id be interested to know how it all works tax wise. Has the money he's put in saved him a few bob in taxes? If you read most of my posts around this (acknowledging they won't be memorable 😄) you'll see I'm clearly on the side of questioning DH. I intentionally put 'questioning' though, as I don't know what the alternative would necessarily do and most of what I hear is second or third-hand or purely rumours. Here, I'm simply recognising that there are many out there that from the very outset create arrangements to pay themselves a very good income and he has never done this. This, for me, shows he at least initially went in with the best of intentions. If he had charged a fairly inflated interest rate, I bet hardly anyone would've noticed or dwelled on it, despite by now potentially being larger than the original capital! He'd have then been lauded if he then wrote it off even though he actually took more out 🤣 Anyway, do I feel he is now holding us back: 90% sure he is. |
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Post by Colin the Caterpillar on Jul 9, 2022 10:11:47 GMT 1
Loan repayments don’t reduce profit (interest payments would).
No tax benefits for DH as far as I can see. The company that owns the club isn’t part of a group so the losses can’t be relieved against profits of another company. If he wrote off his loans because Town weren’t able to repay them then he could use that as a loss against other gains, but he hasn’t done that either.
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ram
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Post by ram on Jul 9, 2022 10:25:46 GMT 1
The quotes about the price of petrol don,t hang together when you consider some folk will happily pay up to £40 a gallon for beer/lager/cider.
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goodbet
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Post by goodbet on Jul 9, 2022 11:55:53 GMT 1
£240 for a Cognac.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 9, 2022 12:08:16 GMT 1
In regards to the original post....
As per any other season, fuck em😚😚😚
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Seriously though, you're right. It's not all about that £50m - he's a business man, he knows about finance - he could have quite easily pretty much doubled that had he invested it savvily over the period in question. But very few people even consider that.
