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Post by gledholt terrier on May 25, 2023 13:35:37 GMT 1
Tony Kay and Peter Swan plus one other - I played against Swan in a cup game which somehow involved extremely south Huddersfield teams. There is an old drama about it probably on YouTube. Edit - it is. Wasn’t it David “Bronco”Layne that was the third Wednesday player involved? Yes.
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Post by royrace on May 25, 2023 15:26:08 GMT 1
Collusion with other footballers, collusion is one of the hardest frauds to uncover . Giving it some thought, there must be a way of betting via others where you cannot be linked? You might have to trust someone a fair amount but it can be done?? Amazes me why they want to bet, surely the thrill is potentially winning a shed load of money, if you're already earning tens of thousands a week I don't really see how the motivation would be so strong! Unless he's terrible with money even winning £100k wouldn't change his life in any way! Not to mention the small fact that its completely against the rules and very easy to get caught! Stupid **** deserves everything he gets if you ask me! Hopefully he'll be liable for compensating Brentford in some way too.
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Post by rockwall on May 25, 2023 15:29:34 GMT 1
Giving it some thought, there must be a way of betting via others where you cannot be linked? You might have to trust someone a fair amount but it can be done?? Amazes me why they want to bet, surely the thrill is potentially winning a shed load of money, if you're already earning tens of thousands a week I don't really see how the motivation would be so strong! Unless he's terrible with money even winning £100k wouldn't change his life in any way! Not to mention the small fact that its completely against the rules and very easy to get caught! Stupid **** deserves everything he gets if you ask me! Hopefully he'll be liable for compensating Brentford in some way too. Harsh words. Is everyone with an addiction a stupid ****?
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 25, 2023 15:35:59 GMT 1
Giving it some thought, there must be a way of betting via others where you cannot be linked? You might have to trust someone a fair amount but it can be done?? Amazes me why they want to bet, surely the thrill is potentially winning a shed load of money, if you're already earning tens of thousands a week I don't really see how the motivation would be so strong! Unless he's terrible with money even winning £100k wouldn't change his life in any way! Not to mention the small fact that its completely against the rules and very easy to get caught! Stupid **** deserves everything he gets if you ask me! Hopefully he'll be liable for compensating Brentford in some way too. If we gave everyone a million quid today, by next Thursday there would be as many poor as there are today and more rich purveyors of alcohol, drugs, gambling and fraudsters etc . Many, many kids still would not have had a good meal and still have holes in their trainers etc. Toney might never be paid enough not to waste or lose it, he may have his own personal issues. Perhaps he should gamble on anything but football, perhaps he does? If its about money why do so many with lots of it get caught up in vices?
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Post by Captainslapper on May 25, 2023 15:49:28 GMT 1
Standard FA. Hypocritical cards. Want gambling companies to fund their pockets. But then are disgusted when a player has a flutter. Unless match fixing has taken place, so what? Im not getting the hypocrisy. Yes theyre happy to receive money from betting companies.. I dont see an issue with that myself, gambling and sport have always gone hand in hand. And they dont have a problem with a player gambling...just not on football, because it 'could' be fixing results. If Toney had been betting on rugby games, then he wouldn't have been punished in any way. Think all sports have similar rules dont they? cricketers cant gamble on cricket matches etc.
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Post by Captainslapper on May 25, 2023 15:50:59 GMT 1
Giving it some thought, there must be a way of betting via others where you cannot be linked? You might have to trust someone a fair amount but it can be done?? Amazes me why they want to bet, surely the thrill is potentially winning a shed load of money, if you're already earning tens of thousands a week I don't really see how the motivation would be so strong! Unless he's terrible with money even winning £100k wouldn't change his life in any way! Not to mention the small fact that its completely against the rules and very easy to get caught! Stupid **** deserves everything he gets if you ask me! Hopefully he'll be liable for compensating Brentford in some way too. Didnt Michael Owen bet on the horses a lot but always a minimum of £10k a race.. just so it was interesting for him?
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Post by mosher on May 25, 2023 15:59:24 GMT 1
Amazes me why they want to bet, surely the thrill is potentially winning a shed load of money, if you're already earning tens of thousands a week I don't really see how the motivation would be so strong! Unless he's terrible with money even winning £100k wouldn't change his life in any way! Not to mention the small fact that its completely against the rules and very easy to get caught! Stupid **** deserves everything he gets if you ask me! Hopefully he'll be liable for compensating Brentford in some way too. Didnt Michael Owen bet on the horses a lot but always a minimum of £10k a race.. just so it was interesting for him? Wish I could afford to blow £10K on a bet. I still wouldn't bet £10k on owt, but wish I could
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Post by Captainslapper on May 25, 2023 16:14:16 GMT 1
Didnt Michael Owen bet on the horses a lot but always a minimum of £10k a race.. just so it was interesting for him? Wish I could afford to blow £10K on a bet. I still wouldn't bet £10k on owt, but wish I could You know you've got a lot of money when putting, say £8,000 on a race isnt enough to make it exciting for you!
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Post by 66738 on May 26, 2023 11:15:21 GMT 1
Ooooo. Bet on his own team to lose. That puts a different spin on it for me and my feelings towards his punishment have changed. I had thought it was a bit harsh but now…..
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Post by Galpharmer on May 26, 2023 11:19:36 GMT 1
Ooooo. Bet on his own team to lose. That puts a different spin on it and my feelings towards his punishment have changed. I had thought it was a bit harsh but now…. Wasn’t it his parent club, rather than his own team? He was out on loan at the time.
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Post by 66738 on May 26, 2023 11:23:02 GMT 1
Ooooo. Bet on his own team to lose. That puts a different spin on it and my feelings towards his punishment have changed. I had thought it was a bit harsh but now…. Wasn’t it his parent club, rather than his own team? He was out on loan at the time. Apparently yes, and he was not involved in the games but betting against your team just isn’t cricket. I don’t like it when our fans bet against us to lose. It’s something I’d personally never do.
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Post by Galpharmer on May 26, 2023 11:25:47 GMT 1
Wasn’t it his parent club, rather than his own team? He was out on loan at the time. Apparently yes, and he was not involved in the games but betting against your team just isn’t cricket. I don’t like it when our fans bet against us to lose. It’s something I’d personally never do. It would have been chuffing profitable over the last few years though.
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Post by 66738 on May 26, 2023 11:40:54 GMT 1
Apparently yes, and he was not involved in the games but betting against your team just isn’t cricket. I don’t like it when our fans bet against us to lose. It’s something I’d personally never do. It would have been chuffing profitable over the last few years though. Unfortunately It would have been, but….
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Post by impact on May 26, 2023 12:35:20 GMT 1
Wasn’t it his parent club, rather than his own team? He was out on loan at the time. Apparently yes, and he was not involved in the games but betting against your team just isn’t cricket. I don’t like it when our fans bet against us to lose. It’s something I’d personally never do. Betting on anything to do with your team is a massive no go. You have inside information others do not have.
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Post by Teddington Ted on May 26, 2023 13:01:19 GMT 1
I’m not sure the best way to help a gambling addict is to ban them from every aspect of their work, relationships and friends for 8 months.
Surely the FA has a duty of care first and foremost? I’ve no doubt that, as more cases of addiction amongst players comes to light in future years, the way Toney has been treated will seem even more archaic and counter-productive. Just like the response football gave when Stan Collymore opened up about his depression. Utterly shameful.
I’m also old enough to remember what Justin Fashanu went through. It seems the game has learnt very little in decades.
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Post by mosher on May 26, 2023 13:18:24 GMT 1
I’m not sure the best way to help a gambling addict is to ban them from every aspect of their work, relationships and friends for 8 months. Surely the FA has a duty of care first and foremost? I’ve no doubt that, as more cases of addiction amongst players comes to light in future years, the way Toney has been treated will seem even more archaic and counter-productive. Just like the response football gave when Stan Collymore opened up about his depression. Utterly shameful. I’m also old enough to remember what Justin Fashanu went through. It seems the game has learnt very little in decades. Has he confirmed he's an addict? I've not seen anything to suggest he is. He MAY just be a moron? Again, not saying he is, I've just not seen anything to say he's an addict. You're right though about Justin Fashanu, but that was hardly solely the game's fault, that was the over-riding (wrong and archaic) attitude towards homosexuality in general society at the time. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty wrong with the EFL/EPL/FA and they really HAVEN'T learnt much from past transgressions on most subjects but I think you're jumping the gun a bit on Toney's punishment, especially if he was betting against his own team, whether he was playing in those games or not.
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Post by benhomly on May 26, 2023 13:21:12 GMT 1
I’m not sure the best way to help a gambling addict is to ban them from every aspect of their work, relationships and friends for 8 months. Surely the FA has a duty of care first and foremost? I’ve no doubt that, as more cases of addiction amongst players comes to light in future years, the way Toney has been treated will seem even more archaic and counter-productive. Just like the response football gave when Stan Collymore opened up about his depression. Utterly shameful. I’m also old enough to remember what Justin Fashanu went through. It seems the game has learnt very little in decades. Has he confirmed he's an addict?
I've not seen anything to suggest he is. He MAY just be a moron? Again, not saying he is, I've just not seen anything to say he's an addict. You're right though about Justin Fashanu, but that was hardly solely the game's fault, that was the over-riding (wrong and archaic) attitude towards homosexuality in general society at the time. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty wrong with the EFL/EPL/FA and they really HAVEN'T learnt much from past transgressions on most subjects but I think you're jumping the gun a bit on Toney's punishment, especially if he was betting against his own team, whether he was playing in those games or not. On the BBC News website now
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Post by mosher on May 26, 2023 13:25:49 GMT 1
Has he confirmed he's an addict?
I've not seen anything to suggest he is. He MAY just be a moron? Again, not saying he is, I've just not seen anything to say he's an addict. You're right though about Justin Fashanu, but that was hardly solely the game's fault, that was the over-riding (wrong and archaic) attitude towards homosexuality in general society at the time. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty wrong with the EFL/EPL/FA and they really HAVEN'T learnt much from past transgressions on most subjects but I think you're jumping the gun a bit on Toney's punishment, especially if he was betting against his own team, whether he was playing in those games or not. On the BBC News website now Ah well, in that case he's not a moron. I still think the ban should exist, but maybe offer him some kind of therapy to shorten it? Like taking a driver awareness course to remove points.
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foxtrot666
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Post by foxtrot666 on May 26, 2023 13:27:18 GMT 1
Apparently yes, and he was not involved in the games but betting against your team just isn’t cricket. I don’t like it when our fans bet against us to lose. It’s something I’d personally never do. Betting on anything to do with your team is a massive no go. You have inside information others do not have. Agree 100%, looking at the bets he placed I think he's a very lucky lad.
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Post by Galpharmer on May 26, 2023 13:53:15 GMT 1
Apparently Bamford backed Leeds to draw against Leicester and Newcastle.
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Post by royrace on May 26, 2023 14:46:11 GMT 1
Amazes me why they want to bet, surely the thrill is potentially winning a shed load of money, if you're already earning tens of thousands a week I don't really see how the motivation would be so strong! Unless he's terrible with money even winning £100k wouldn't change his life in any way! Not to mention the small fact that its completely against the rules and very easy to get caught! Stupid **** deserves everything he gets if you ask me! Hopefully he'll be liable for compensating Brentford in some way too. Harsh words. Is everyone with an addiction a stupid ****? That's some step you've made there from what I said! Everyone with an addiction?!?! What ARE you on about? For a pro footballer earning a small fortune to carry on betting when he can easily be caught makes him a stupid c**t yes. Probably not fashionable in today's world where nobody takes any responsibility but as I said he deserves everything he gets. In fact 8 months is lenient IMO. Seems like maybe he was only addicted to football betting and bets involving his own team rather than gambling in general?!?!? As I said; stupid ****. How many other players have been caught doing the same?! That's right; next to none.
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Post by royrace on May 26, 2023 14:50:55 GMT 1
Apparently yes, and he was not involved in the games but betting against your team just isn’t cricket. I don’t like it when our fans bet against us to lose. It’s something I’d personally never do. Betting on anything to do with your team is a massive no go. You have inside information others do not have. Similar to insider trading I guess and if you got caught doing that you'd consider yourself very lucky indeed to get away with an 8 month ban!!
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Post by Porrohman on May 26, 2023 14:51:12 GMT 1
Brentford are the losers in this, not Toney. His fee will be deflated as contract running down and no game time. They will also be without their top scorer and the consequences could be them plunged into a relegation battle. Harsh as it may sound, I hope they have it in his contract that if suspended in such circumstances and unable to perform, he is suspended without pay. Any other job you'd be sacked, eg losing your driving licence if a sales rep. However, clearly they won't want to upset their star player who they want to extract maximum ££s from, so a very, very difficult situation for them to manage, which they did not know was coming their way when they signed him (when these offences had already been committed !). Brentford do lose out the most in this circumstance. But a decent firm may sack someone or lay off but if that employee was a major asset to the firm ( major) let’s not beat around the bush ANY firm worth it’s salt would welcome them back with open arms if their problem has been solved, people make mistakes this isn’t like he’s committed an horrendous crime the lads probably just got a bit of an addiction. And the lad will lose possibly big time as he won’t get paid for 8 months and very likely to never play for England after a long lay off. He won’t be happy with what situation he’s put himself in . Depends if he had a little flutter on it happening 🤔
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Post by Captainslapper on May 26, 2023 15:10:38 GMT 1
On the BBC News website now Ah well, in that case he's not a moron. I still think the ban should exist, but maybe offer him some kind of therapy to shorten it? Like taking a driver awareness course to remove points. The PFA should be arranging therapy *if* he is a gambling addict. say *if* because its very easy to claim you are rather than just someone who likes a bet, when peoples' perception of you will instantly change from condemnation to sympathy ( like you've just demonstrated ) I dont think he should be barred from training with his club during the ban, same as you arent if you get a ban for a red card. It should be a ban from playing, not from being a footballer.
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Post by mosher on May 26, 2023 15:16:35 GMT 1
Ah well, in that case he's not a moron. I still think the ban should exist, but maybe offer him some kind of therapy to shorten it? Like taking a driver awareness course to remove points. The PFA should be arranging therapy *if* he is a gambling addict. say *if* because its very easy to claim you are rather than just someone who likes a bet, when peoples' perception of you will instantly change from condemnation to sympathy ( like you've just demonstrated )
I dont think he should be barred from training with his club during the ban, same as you arent if you get a ban for a red card. It should be a ban from playing, not from being a footballer. I wouldn't say I was sympathetic per se, just retracting my statement he's a moron. As you say IF he's an addict. I get what you're saying about CLAIMING, but I'd rather give him the benefit of the doubt TO START WITH. Obviously if it turns out he's just deflecting then not only is he a moron, but he's a lying moronic prick. It's a big if though IMO
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 26, 2023 17:24:14 GMT 1
Being addicted to gambling does not mean he has to bet on football, you can almost bet on 2 flies crawling up a wall now. A world of gambling exists, why bet on the one thing that might well get you into deeper shit than just losing money?
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Post by Captainslapper on May 26, 2023 17:28:31 GMT 1
Being addicted to gambling does not mean he has to bet on football, you can almost bet on 2 flies crawling up a wall now. A world of gambling exists, why bet on the one thing that might well get you into deeper shit than just losing money? Stupidity? Apparently he has been diagnosed with a gambling addiction so it isnt just a case of him claiming to have one.
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 26, 2023 17:56:03 GMT 1
Being addicted to gambling does not mean he has to bet on football, you can almost bet on 2 flies crawling up a wall now. A world of gambling exists, why bet on the one thing that might well get you into deeper shit than just losing money? Stupidity? Apparently he has been diagnosed with a gambling addiction so it isnt just a case of him claiming to have one. I accept he has an issue but dont believe a ban should be changed because he did not have to bet on football. We dont know if the actual games he placed bets on were anything to do with Brentford or indeed any team they were in competition with so 8 months could be harsh or not?
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Post by Stewpot on May 26, 2023 20:09:56 GMT 1
Don't know if anyone caught the 60 minute version of winter walks, on BBC4 a couple of weeks ago. Subject and sole presenter with his 360° stick was Paul Merson (ok I know they are viewed from afar but generally the programme is very intimate, you know if you watch them). His walk was in beautiful country up on the North York moors.
I used to think he was a bit of a dickhead, but after seeing him open up on his various lfe struggles, especially with gambling, and getting very emotional with the whole thing I have changed my mind on him. So I guess pays not to be quick to judge folk.
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Post by Oblong of Dreams on May 26, 2023 23:31:11 GMT 1
Being addicted to gambling does not mean he has to bet on football, you can almost bet on 2 flies crawling up a wall now. A world of gambling exists, why bet on the one thing that might well get you into deeper shit than just losing money? Stupidity? Apparently he has been diagnosed with a gambling addiction so it isnt just a case of him claiming to have one. Addiction is a strange beast. Plenty of people can have a beer with mates, know when they've had enough, and are perfectly fine... but for some it becomes a real problem and the only way for them to beat it is complete abstention. You'll hear people talk about "addictive personality", but there are many people who have a real problem with a specific substance or behaviour but can manage their gambling or drinking in a healthy manner. Speaking as someone currently going through recovery for substance use I have to say I'm skeptical of the "addictive personality" angle- for example I drink responsibly, and have strict self-imposed limits on my gambling (the biggest bet I've ever placed was a stake of £2, mostly I do 10p accumulators, and even then only occasionally), but there's one substance that became a habit that was difficult to break despite me recognising the negative impact it was having on myself and those around me until I sought help. Whilst those who don't have a problem with a substance or behaviour might say something like "just stop, you idiot", it isn't as simple as that. I'm not sure if calling Toney "stupid" is all that helpful, but at the same time I'm not sure that ignoring the agency of an addict is helpful either. Part of recovery is taking responsibility for your mistakes. Quite a lot of addiction treatment such as the "twelve steps" programme strips the person of agency or control, and this is something that I find very uncomfortable- in particular the " to a higher power" bit which simply wouldn't work for me, and which i find dehumanising. If Toney has a problem (and given how it's affected him he clearly does, even if it isn't an "addiction" in a clinical sense) then he needs help and support and I hope he gets it. However he also needs to take responsibility for his own decisions and actions. If the revelation that he bet against his own team is true (even if he was out on loan at the time) then he's going to have to rebuild trust with Brentford fans... though if he rips the league up once he returns from his suspension, those fans will probably find it easy to forgive his past transgressions. Speaking of which, I might have a look on "Down At The Griffin" to see what the consensus is among their fans.
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