terrier67
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Posts: 517
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Post by terrier67 on Jan 14, 2008 11:45:37 GMT 1
... cool heads and actions.
The club as a whole needs to take stock and have a good long look at itself, from top to bottom.
We are trying to produce a product - one that appeals to existing customers, attracts new ones and gives good value for money - just like any other business. Therefore the business people who run the club need to see why they are failing, acknowledge it and plan to resolve it. We have seen their attepmts to look at the long term view - the Zone, Academy and fans of the future. What we haven't seen is addressing the issues of the here and now - poor product, poor atmosphere, dwindling support. It is true we have been going downhill for some time now (last couple of seasons), but the current reime have been in there for most of that time (Davy, Jarvis, Richie) so we should be seeing a few more birghter signs than we are doing. If there is a reason for this, I would like to know - just so we know, and if there are ambitious plans, then again let us know - we knew about the Zone and it happened, we don't know of anything else.
Mr Jarvis, if you are still around, I would suggest a statement from the Chairman is overdue - not about last years balance sheet, but about the real problems and the real plans for the Club - both short and long term. If there are no short term plans, tell us then you at least have the argument that we were told it would get worse before it gets better.
There is plenty to work with - young players, good fan base, decent facilities, but you cannot stay in business based on what might be good in 5 years.
Talk to us, please.
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Post by readsthemac on Jan 14, 2008 11:52:02 GMT 1
KD's silence is deafening 
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Post by shawsie on Jan 14, 2008 13:00:59 GMT 1
As it stands 67 we are likely to have a fantastic behind the scenes in 2/3 years but nobody bothered anymore about it.
KD gets some unwarranted abuse on here at times, but he has to realise we are in danger of returning to Leeds Rd gates at present.
There is little if any excitement on the pitch and ultimately we will reap what we sow unless someone injects some urgency into the playing side of things, both managerially/coaching wise and also in players themselves.
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terrier67
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Posts: 517
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Post by terrier67 on Jan 14, 2008 13:07:36 GMT 1
personally I agree. It's no good starting kids initiatives before you improve what goes on during a match - otherwise they will simply not want to come back , not matter how cheap the first game is.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2008 13:42:33 GMT 1
It's simply a matter of passion & effort. If them lads on the pitch toiled their guts out for 90 mins+ every week and all came off the pitch as though they'd done a proper shift, then people would be more forgiving, even if they have lost.
There is an excuse for a lack of skills on a par with Ronaldo etc... (cash and Div 3...).
But there is no excuse for a lack of passion and effort.
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Post by readsthemac on Jan 14, 2008 13:45:14 GMT 1
if they fought a good fight and come off the pitch blooded and knacked after a game and lost they would get applause... the fact that some players can go in at full time in a prestine clean kit without a drop of mud and sweat is was really hurts the fans |
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Post by Richard1986 on Jan 14, 2008 13:48:20 GMT 1
...i dont think it makes good business sense in anyone's books to make an enemy of your own customers.... That combined with the fact that football is maybe slightly different in that, I certainly don't want to hand over any money without being reasonably sure this money, being paid in respect of the football club, is going towards and is being used by the football club Until this club starts showing some transparency all the special offers in the world wont get people though the turnstile's in fact Sean Jarvis would probably have to pay me at least £100 to watch this passionless dross atm We have no direction what so ever at the moment, Top 30 club by 2008- failed Become self sufficient- failed Make a push for the playoffs- failed Improve on last years performance- failed And to top it off the manager and players seem simply not bothered. Our chairman shows no leadership although to be fair I never listen to anything he says anyway ...i guess he may have made some nonchalant statement on OS or the program notes but i have no interest in reading either of those these days. So...why the hell should the fans turn up ? Maybe the club can take stock of that |
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Post by Floyds on Jan 14, 2008 13:49:35 GMT 1
yep totally agree.
its the lack of any spirit, fight and determination that is the main problem.
if we got stuck in but were beaten by a better team - fair enough.
but to waltz around and lose to crap like northamption and gillingham without looking interested is just not good enough.
the players and management really need to look at themselves.
what can KD/SJ do?
i think they have backed rithchie to some extent, but the team and manager just arent doing their jobs correctly.
how ritchie ever made it as a manager is beyond me.
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Post by Diomedes on Jan 14, 2008 14:18:38 GMT 1
I don't see how KD could be blamed for the players being inconcistent and selectively passionate. It's down to the manager partly and mainly to the players themselves.
The players can do it, just not every week. They need to have a look at themselves.
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Post by thomo on Jan 14, 2008 14:25:57 GMT 1
I agree Davy can't shoulder all the blame here but I'm afraid it's up to the management to iron out the inconsistency. The players clearly can't motivate themselves and never will. AR should be motivating them.
Sadly I'm starting to feel AR is incapable of motivating them. Hopefully we can bring in someone to help him do this before the end of Jan. Holden maybe? That's probably more important than any player signing right now.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 14, 2008 14:27:56 GMT 1
Davys crawled back into his hole since FFA asked him a few more questions he'd rather not answer.
Im sure we'll hear more from him soon as the superleague season starts. My guess is it would be remiss of him no to mention it.
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Post by Diomedes on Jan 14, 2008 14:29:52 GMT 1
I agree that Ritchie has a role to play in motivation but I also think that these players should also be self-motivated. Any motivation Ritchie gives should be a mere top up for their own desire to get out there and win games.
Sometimes there just seems to be no pride in the shirt. No shame either, as they trudge off having given a slither of what they're capable of. Perhaps they lack leadership on the pitch. Perhaps they're a bunch of arrogant pillocks.
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Post by Floyds on Jan 14, 2008 14:53:04 GMT 1
i think they are a bunch of arrogance pillocks, who lack leadership on and off the pitch.
i wouldnt stand for it if i were ritchie.
in fact - i would be in the examiner saying "totally unacceptable, players must look at themselves, extra training this week, going to be big changes in things dont improve" etc etc
instead of just "got to do better in next two away games" or whatever he said after saturday.
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Post by hughphamism on Jan 14, 2008 16:08:53 GMT 1
I was watch Sunderland on MOTD where every player was flying in to tackles and it seemed alien because we never see that level of commitment (apart from the Birmingham game).
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terrier67
Iain Dunn Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 517
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Post by terrier67 on Jan 14, 2008 16:12:36 GMT 1
two words : Roy Keane.
From them you get:
Fear, respect, knowledge of the game, motivator - take your pick - take your pick
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Post by kamaraisking on Jan 14, 2008 19:00:36 GMT 1
roys also taking sunderland down they must be proper scared  |
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Post by specialun on Jan 15, 2008 0:47:43 GMT 1
Good post terrier67
Imo schemes like the fans of the future initatives are excellent ideas.
It would however seem like common sense to me that in order to maximise the benefits of such schemes as much if not more effort ought to be focussed on the 'core' support group - attendances have fallen by 3,500 in two years.
Its about time the whole thinking of the club re: causation of our problems switched. Focus on pleasing the support which is clearly out there and the gates will increase, which will increase revenue, create profit etc - then invest in schemes such as the zone, the scoreboard etc.
As things stand we are redocorating a house whilst the foundations on which the house isbuilt have been neglected and left to one side.
We look on at things from a negative, reactive point of view - attendances have fallen so losses are up. Lets think why, how...how can we not make this mistake again? Lets be proactive, have some direction and purpose.
The club seems far more concerned about winning the family club of the year award than anything on the field. Surely schemes such as the fans of the future would work better where these 7 year olds had parents who were willing to take them along if they were interested. As it is now, are these 7 year olds supposed to turn up on their own?
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Post by arnhemterrier on Jan 15, 2008 12:36:56 GMT 1
two words : Roy Keane. From them you get: Fear, respect, knowledge of the game, motivator - take your pick - take your pick Yes good point with Keano, but he's gone to an ambitious club with a football man in charge (Niall Quinn). At the end of the day we'd never get anybody like that in here simply because a) we are not ambitious b) we are run by a rugby man No bright young promising manager IMO would risk their reputation by coming what is quickly becoming a poisoned chalice here. As for AR motivating the players - yes of course it is his job. But who should be motivating the manager? |
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Post by knockkneedchicken on Jan 15, 2008 12:48:25 GMT 1
I think it's more a case of "Who is the manager accountable to"?
His ultimate boss is Davy, but who gives Ritchie a bollocking when required on a daily or even weekly basis?
I can't see Davy being so "hands on", so the next line manager in football terms is Watson, and he's only there one day a week cos he's off the other 4 feathering his own nest and allegedly making money for rival football teams!!
As far as I can see there is no-one else who Ritchie is accountable to with regards to football and results in particular.
Such a structure can't be a recipe for success and is the main reason for our failings in the last 2 years IMHO.
Until we get a board who have HTFC and football at the top of the agenda we are going nowhere except maybe down.
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Post by arnhemterrier on Jan 15, 2008 12:53:55 GMT 1
I can't see Davy being so "hands on", so the next line manager in football terms is Watson, and he's only there one day a week cos he's off the other 4 feathering his own nest and making money for rival football teams!! . Wouldn't mind elaborating that point further, I'm intrigued by that! |
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 15, 2008 12:54:39 GMT 1
I think it's more a case of "Who is the manager accountable to"? His ultimate boss is Davy, but who gives Ritchie a bollocking when required on a daily or even weekly basis? I can't see Davy being so "hands on", so the next line manager in football terms is Watson, and he's only there one day a week cos he's off the other 4 feathering his own nest and making money for rival football teams!! As far as I can see there is no-one else who Ritchie is accountable to with regards to football and results in particular. Such a structure can't be a recipe for success and is the main reason for our failings in the last 2 years IMHO. Until we get a board who have HTFC and football at the top of the agenda we are going nowhere except maybe down. I must admit results have gone downhill since AW went part time Maybe the club need to look at getting in another full time MD to kick parts of the club into shape. The first team is not the only part of the set up that looks a bit run down, e.g. decisions like the scoreboard seem to drag on, SJ can only make a business case but where's the ulitmate decision maker at the club on a day to day basis |
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Post by Rigodon on Jan 15, 2008 13:50:24 GMT 1
come on arnhem - whos supposed to motivate the managers motivator...?!?! Am sure AR hasn't been lied to... I think he did well with Barnsley - but that team was more than head and shoulders above ours. I reckon alots been made of our academy and our Young Guns. None of em are world beaters. None of em actually appear to be that good. Not a bid of late for anyone other that Worthy of any significance. Alot of our players, much as I hate to admit it - wouldn't be in the league one fantasy league - cause they are shit.. Can't polish a turd is a phrase I use regular in conjunction with Town.. Whether AR is the man to save us, is looking more and more unlikely.. But, whether he is a good manager or we are just shit is possibly a different debate. As for KS - to coin another phrase - I wouldn't expect blood from a stone. As I've said before the only way I can see forward for us if we get A manager who sells A player (through the academy?) for loadsa cash and manage to build a new team off it... If not it will take a man with alot of money - Although probably a thick one to plough into town.. Anyone playing the Euros and wants to lose some?? Would be some ride... Maybe the Star Trek fan club can chip in and we could get our celeb fan to "make it so..."  |
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marshian
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,567
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Post by marshian on Jan 15, 2008 14:01:32 GMT 1
When has he ever put any money or time into Town apart from that match report?
Reece Dinsdale has a much better celeb fan profile for me.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jan 15, 2008 14:02:21 GMT 1
'I think he did well with Barnsley - but that team was more than head and shoulders above ours.'
Can't agree with that. We finished higher than them in the season.Played them 4 times,winning 2 and drawing 1 and we outplayed them for 3/4 of the 2 play off games before bottling it big style in the last 1/4.
Unless you mean head and shoulders above what we have now, in which case id agree with you.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 15, 2008 14:26:34 GMT 1
When has he ever put any money or time into Town apart from that match report? Reece Dinsdale has a much better celeb fan profile for me. Bit harsh, at the end of the Patrick Stewart is a proper Town fan just like you, me or Reece Dinsdale! Alright so he's got a bob or two but I bet there are a dozen or more Town fans out there worth a bit more Unlike other "celeb footie fans", Patrick Stewart doesn't tip off the media that he's off to games, he just goes to watch a game of footy when time allows, i.e. he was at Brum game, didn't see him on Match of the Day though He also doesn't just to glamour games, I once sat near him at Spotland for a pre-season game - does it come any more low key? Like I say decent fan, doesn't want any fanfare just to watch a game (usually crap), like you and me. No harm in that and fair play to him Contrast that to say Slyvester Stallone and that cringe worthy PR exercise when he turned up at Goodison Park in a Everton  while he was plugging Rocky 76 or whatever number we're at! |
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Post by Rigodon on Jan 15, 2008 14:47:26 GMT 1
'I think he did well with Barnsley - but that team was more than head and shoulders above ours.' Can't agree with that. We finished higher than them in the season.Played them 4 times,winning 2 and drawing 1 and we outplayed them for 3/4 of the 2 play off games before bottling it big style in the last 1/4. Unless you mean head and shoulders above what we have now, in which case id agree with you. Hmmm... Not splitting heirs but I think they battered us in the second half of the last playoff, and we were I believe the worse team throughout.. I would say that McPhail, Devaney etc were all more formidable and I think would walk into our team now, and probably then. Shuker, Marc Richards Colgan, Nardiello - I'd have them all here - wouldn't you? All played for different teams at a higher level (don't know about richards on that one..) and boast experience which our institutionalised little gems don't?! I'd say we over achieved that season slapp's - wouldnt you??!! Given our form since (other than jacko not pairing abbott and pissing him off, with beckett - which looked good to me) i see no other reason for our decline and there "ascent" other than we are genuine in our shitness. |
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Post by smj1 on Jan 15, 2008 14:55:04 GMT 1
Dear all
I have read the thread and will try to answer as best I can.
My remit is the commercial side of the club and whilst we have made some advances there is still some way to go. What's more, I and the team we have will be doing everything within my/our capabilities to ensure that commericially we are on the right path. That includes eveything from major sponsorships to Fans of the Future.
Sadly timing of these initiatives can't be dictated to by results - they are often dictated to by sponsors, budgets etc. I particularly felt the template for the Gillingham game (first game of Centenary year plus six sponsors backing the campaign) was perfect for us to kick start our campaign to rebuild supporters numbers. All of this has taken some time to put together and was planned at the end of November. Obviously beating Birmingham was a major boost for all and the timing to some degree could not have been better - beating a Prem club! I hasten to add however the Gillingham offer was planned early and was all about it being the first game of the Centenary Year. Sadly it didn't work out for us.
And like you we were all gutted that we lost on Saturday. However as promotions go we can't rely on anticipating results we have to go with what timings dictate to us.
As for The Zone, this is not a drain on the club in fact just the opposite and gives us the opportunity to build a fan base. It is difficult to go into detail on here about changing structures of Football In The Community and the Football League, but The Zone is a pioneering venture that can only go to benefit Town and Giants.
As we all know the key product in the equation is what goes on the pitch. My jurisdiction ends there but I do believe that as a club we are trying to do everything we can to make it happen for us all. Like you all I have opinions what I believe is right or wrong - I can only express those opinions.
As for the atmosphere - I thought for Birmingham and leading up to half time v Gillingham it was excellent. I am however looking to work with a number of parties on this to see how we can improve it. Again linked to success this will be accelerated.
I know that may not answer all your questions but I hope goes someway to demonstrate that I always have an open door policy and if there is anything I can do to assist the club and its supporters achieve is aspirations - then that's what I'll do
Sean
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 15, 2008 14:56:14 GMT 1
I usually agree with a lot you write Rigg but I thought we absolutely battered Barnsley at Oakwell That we only won one nil was a major let off for Barnsley, the tie should have been dead and buried (Schoff and GTF especially guilty of misses) I don't think either side was on top in the first half of the second leg and we implouded in the second, thanks in no small to Rabs mistake and a soft pen Anyway it's water under the bridge, but on our day this team remains a match for any side, just ask Chelsea or Brum Even if we are that naff, so is this league. L**ds have cobbled together a band of mercenaries 48 hours before the August transfer window closed and are now walking the league. You don't need to polish a turd when all they have to beat are equally turdish outfits |
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Post by Floyds on Jan 15, 2008 15:08:20 GMT 1
the whole league is crap.
just that we are one of the worst teams in it this season.
i actually think we deserve to be lower than we are for the performances we have produced.
although i am sure we will soon slide to our deserved level.
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Post by Rigodon on Jan 15, 2008 15:32:43 GMT 1
I think it may have been lost in translation HT - but yeah I agree - Maybe the dare I say it, negative emotions I felt on the return leg has slurred my images of that night. I saw barnsley play more than town I think that year because of where I was working, and I honestly thought they were a good footballing side with a generally better quality of player.. Like I said I'd love them players here.!
BTW - Likewise HT - bit of balance and sense never hurt anyone did it??!?
Thanks to Sean again by the way, I still think its still worth your effort mate - could you pick up on the EMC feedback thats on here, its a major gripe and like I've said, Im sure Adrian and Simon would love to hear it.......
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while he was plugging Rocky 76 or whatever number we're at!