ldotm
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,890 
|
Post by ldotm on Apr 12, 2024 15:32:10 GMT 1
...although, it took him less than a week to recover from a supposed "broken neck" previously! If he’s out for longer than a week, he must have been amputated |
|
|
|
Post by mosher on Apr 12, 2024 15:38:13 GMT 1
I wouldn't mind giving him a year's extension TBH But anything longer should be as options to extend if he proves himself a worthy squad member**. I think we should definitely be looking for a "game ready" replacement though, it's too late for a prospect IMO. ** I personally think he'd not be the type to rock the boat if he was only a squad player, unlike some "professionals". Hogg not rock the boat? Come on 😂 I'm not as close to the club as you mate, have you heard different? I know he can be a mornjy tit on the pitch sometimes, but I've never heard of him being a Kongolo type arsehole? |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 12, 2024 15:47:30 GMT 1
Hogg not rock the boat? Come on 😂 I'm not as close to the club as you mate, have you heard different? I know he can be a mornjy tit on the pitch sometimes, but I've never heard of him being a Kongolo type arsehole? I'm about as close to the club as you are, but it's well known he kicked up a fuss under Siewert. |
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Apr 12, 2024 15:59:43 GMT 1
I'm not as close to the club as you mate, have you heard different? I know he can be a mornjy tit on the pitch sometimes, but I've never heard of him being a Kongolo type arsehole? I'm about as close to the club as you are, but it's well known he kicked up a fuss under Siewert. Good lad! |
|
|
|
Post by mosher on Apr 12, 2024 16:05:32 GMT 1
I'm not as close to the club as you mate, have you heard different? I know he can be a mornjy tit on the pitch sometimes, but I've never heard of him being a Kongolo type arsehole? I'm about as close to the club as you are, but it's well known he kicked up a fuss under Siewert. Aaah, didn't know that but I wasn't on here regularly when Siewert was manager. |
|
|
|
Post by fredcarno1 on Apr 12, 2024 16:10:47 GMT 1
Love to know what folk have seen in Wiles to make them think he’s going to be great. Another player we’ve signed who’s had a bad injury and will probably never be as good as he was before, which wasn’t that great in the first place. You can throw Balker in with Wiles, another injury prone dud.
|
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 12, 2024 16:17:17 GMT 1
Love to know what folk have seen in Wiles to make them think he’s going to be great. Another player we’ve signed who’s had a bad injury and will probably never be as good as he was before, which wasn’t that great in the first place. You can throw Balker in with Wiles, another injury prone dud. Watch his Rotherham stuff, he is a forward midfielder with two workers behind him. They had a true big centre forward and at least one wide player consistently up the pitch.. Here he gets lost up the pitch on his jack, he often ends up further forward than either wide player and there is no big proper forward for him to push up behind. We dont suit him when he was fit and prepared to run and tackle, now its just worse. Rudoni fit, wiles is never going to start, rudoni sold on is a scary scenario. |
|
Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,964
|
Post by Sparrow on Apr 12, 2024 16:18:56 GMT 1
Hopefully he leave's us in the summer.
My opinion is worth bugger all, but he should have been replaced as a starter the season we came down and sold the season after.
His leg are gone. He's slow, can't pass, and consistently moans and complains at everyone. But makes some of the biggest mistakes and worst passes himself every match.
The fact that we often miss him when he's not playing just goes to show how utterly crap this squad is and how bad the recruitment has been over the last few seasons.
Successive managers have consistently picked him not because he's good, but because he's the best of a bad lot and not as shit as others.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Apr 12, 2024 16:28:55 GMT 1
Hopefully he leave's us in the summer. My opinion is worth bugger all, but he should have been replaced as a starter the season we came down and sold the season after. His leg are gone. He's slow, can't pass, and consistently moans and complains at everyone. But makes some of the biggest mistakes and worst passes himself every match. The fact that we often miss him when he's not playing just goes to show how utterly crap this squad is and how bad the recruitment has been over the last few seasons. Successive managers have consistently picked him not because he's good, but because he's the best of a bad lot and not as shit as others. Even without the huge exaggerations, thats beyond harsh to the point of being disrespectful IMO. Hogg doesnt deserve that. |
|
cyberman
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,505
|
Post by cyberman on Apr 12, 2024 16:32:40 GMT 1
Why the hell would we be giving a 35 year old a new contract? Have we not learnt our lesson? It called loyalty - ever heard of that ? - Hogg on the pitch is only part of what Hogg does for the club - off the pitch he is a role model - someone who will pass on his experience to newer and younger players. |
|
|
|
Post by utttrooper on Apr 12, 2024 16:35:36 GMT 1
I think that Tuesday night was a prime example of one of those games where we only notice his real value to us when he's not there. He may not be able to pass the fucking ball but neither Matos nor Kasumu really can either |
|
|
|
Post by utttrooper on Apr 12, 2024 16:36:37 GMT 1
Why the hell would we be giving a 35 year old a new contract? Have we not learnt our lesson? I wouldn't mind giving him a year's extension TBH But anything longer should be as options to extend if he proves himself a worthy squad member**. I think we should definitely be looking for a "game ready" replacement though, it's too late for a prospect IMO. ** I personally think he'd not be the type to rock the boat if he was only a squad player, unlike some "professionals". I'd agree that he should get another year but as a bit part player and we really need a replacement this sunmer |
|
|
|
Post by utttrooper on Apr 12, 2024 16:39:41 GMT 1
We all thought Carlos had a bad run with injuries? Fk me that season pales in comparison to this, it's been insane. Makes you wonder if it's more than bad luck. That theres something more underlying that is causing it. But when the coaches etc have all changed so many times recently, it cant really be anything theyre doing, surely? the last 4 season have been an injury nightmare except for 21/22. 20/21..loads of injuries second half of season. Every centre back at once I seem to remember. CC couldn't cope and we almost went down after a good 1st half of season. 21/22...almost no injuries and CC almost took us up. 22/23... huge injury crisis, worse than CC had and only really got better last third of season once Warnock had come back. 23/24...even worse still. Only 11 or 12 1st team players available at times. A bench made up of kids..terrible in 1st half of season and not improving much in the 2nd. Even the new signings we buy to improve it are crocked or ill immediately. If we do go down theres lots of reason why, but more than anything the amount of injuries weve had to contend with this season has been ridiculous. That shows we have a very capable Championship starting 11 but no depth to back it up |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Apr 12, 2024 16:47:25 GMT 1
Makes you wonder if it's more than bad luck. That theres something more underlying that is causing it. But when the coaches etc have all changed so many times recently, it cant really be anything theyre doing, surely? the last 4 season have been an injury nightmare except for 21/22. 20/21..loads of injuries second half of season. Every centre back at once I seem to remember. CC couldn't cope and we almost went down after a good 1st half of season. 21/22...almost no injuries and CC almost took us up. 22/23... huge injury crisis, worse than CC had and only really got better last third of season once Warnock had come back. 23/24...even worse still. Only 11 or 12 1st team players available at times. A bench made up of kids..terrible in 1st half of season and not improving much in the 2nd. Even the new signings we buy to improve it are crocked or ill immediately. If we do go down theres lots of reason why, but more than anything the amount of injuries weve had to contend with this season has been ridiculous. That shows we have a very capable Championship starting 11 but no depth to back it up We certainly dont have the depth to cope with the injuries weve been having, and to be fair I doubt there are many clubs that would. We havent helped ourselves either mind,,,going into the first half of the season with one senior striker who himself is a walking injury and his only back ups being Hudlin and Harratt was ridiculous really...especially when we had one but loaned him out! |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 12, 2024 16:49:46 GMT 1
Why the hell would we be giving a 35 year old a new contract? Have we not learnt our lesson? It called loyalty - ever heard of that ? - Hogg on the pitch is only part of what Hogg does for the club - off the pitch he is a role model - someone who will pass on his experience to newer and younger players. He wasn't that loyal when he asked for a transfer back in 2019. |
|
|
|
Post by Galpharmer on Apr 12, 2024 16:58:39 GMT 1
I'm not as close to the club as you mate, have you heard different? I know he can be a mornjy tit on the pitch sometimes, but I've never heard of him being a Kongolo type arsehole? I'm about as close to the club as you are, but it's well known he kicked up a fuss under Siewert. Only kicked it sideways and backwards though. |
|
|
|
Post by overtonterrierspirit on Apr 12, 2024 17:01:17 GMT 1
That shows we have a very capable Championship starting 11 but no depth to back it up We certainly dont have the depth to cope with the injuries weve been having, and to be fair I doubt there are many clubs that would. We havent helped ourselves either mind,,,going into the first half of the season with one senior striker who himself is a walking injury and his only back ups being Hudlin and Harratt was ridiculous really...especially when we had one but loaned him out! And there’s one of the most significant reasons why we are in this position. Someone actually made a judgment that a Championship team could compete with a “strike force “ of an injury riddled Ward, a non league level Hudlin and a totally inexperienced and unprofessional Harratt. |
|
Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,964
|
Post by Sparrow on Apr 12, 2024 17:02:36 GMT 1
Hopefully he leave's us in the summer. My opinion is worth bugger all, but he should have been replaced as a starter the season we came down and sold the season after. His leg are gone. He's slow, can't pass, and consistently moans and complains at everyone. But makes some of the biggest mistakes and worst passes himself every match. The fact that we often miss him when he's not playing just goes to show how utterly crap this squad is and how bad the recruitment has been over the last few seasons. Successive managers have consistently picked him not because he's good, but because he's the best of a bad lot and not as shit as others. Even without the huge exaggerations, thats beyond harsh to the point of being disrespectful IMO. Hogg doesnt deserve that. Which bit's are the huge exaggerations though? He is slow over anything more than 2-5 yards and is getting slower. Players constantly run off him and away from him. His passing is poor. He's never been a good passer of the ball throughout his career. Even a Watford supporting mate of mine said his passing was poor when we signed him. He often passes backwards or sideways. With his sideways ones often going behind or to the wrong foot of his team mate, so that the player has to stop and wait for the ball, rather than being able to run onto the ball. Lot's of his passes get intercepted in dangerous areas. Constantly slows the play down due to not being technically good enough to move the ball quickly, although he is not alone in that amongst our squad. Constantly bollocks and moans at everyone for every single mistake, but never ever put's his had up to apologies for his own. Constantly bollocks young players, rather than encouraging. Captain and one of the first names on the team sheet of a team that has failed to win in 155 Championship matches out of 226 (69% failure rate). That stat should tell you a lot about his and his teammates quality. I get that he has been here 10 years, I get that he's the captain, I get that he smashes into people and shows real genuine passion, which Town fans love (myself included) and are all fantastic traits. However, Hogg is one of many many players in our squad who isn't (and hasn't been for a few seasons) genuine Championship quality. The fact that Hogg is seen as one of our better players shows how poor our team is. All my opinion of course, which counts for bugger all. And I don't think Jonathan Hogg would give 2 shits what I think :-) UTT |
|
|
|
Post by Million Dollar Babies on Apr 12, 2024 17:09:57 GMT 1
A new contract for Hogg would be as stupid as the ones we handed out last summer
He gets injured quite regularly now and is past his best. He's been great for us and doesn't owe us anything but nor are we here to hand out sympathetic contracts to players
|
|
|
|
Post by Amigo on Apr 12, 2024 17:12:07 GMT 1
The fact there's even an argument about whether he should get another contract or not, especially if we might be in the Championship, says everything about where we are at the moment.
|
|
|
|
Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 12, 2024 17:14:30 GMT 1
Why the hell would we be giving a 35 year old a new contract? Have we not learnt our lesson? It called loyalty - ever heard of that ? - Hogg on the pitch is only part of what Hogg does for the club - off the pitch he is a role model - someone who will pass on his experience to newer and younger players. He's been a great servant to the club but we need to move on, the club needs to move forward. If wants a coaching role fair enough but he shouldn't be offered a new playing contract. Who said he even wants to carry on playing anyway? |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 12, 2024 17:16:37 GMT 1
If it was a short-term deal, a bit like Dean Whitehead, then you could understand it. But you just know he'll be starting next season in the starting line-up.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2024 17:28:07 GMT 1
Why the hell would we be giving a 35 year old a new contract? Have we not learnt our lesson? Ohhh Barry Horne……. |
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 12, 2024 17:55:26 GMT 1
Hopefully he leave's us in the summer. My opinion is worth bugger all, but he should have been replaced as a starter the season we came down and sold the season after. His leg are gone. He's slow, can't pass, and consistently moans and complains at everyone. But makes some of the biggest mistakes and worst passes himself every match. The fact that we often miss him when he's not playing just goes to show how utterly crap this squad is and how bad the recruitment has been over the last few seasons. Successive managers have consistently picked him not because he's good, but because he's the best of a bad lot and not as shit as others. Even without the huge exaggerations, thats beyond harsh to the point of being disrespectful IMO. Hogg doesnt deserve that. A limited player who has regularly given what he has for the team. This season was probably one too many in this division and made worse by the squad we have. His 'desire' to drop back has not helped us, although its perfectly reasonable for older players to go that way. The daft idea to use him as the pivot for playing out from the back probably wasnt his. His value may stiĺl be in short appearances as a sub in particular games but it may be an expensive option. Two struggling seasons as he got older probably has not helped his deamenour on the pitch. The lack of a Mooy type player wasnt his fault either. |
|
|
|
Post by araucaria on Apr 12, 2024 18:13:45 GMT 1
Even without the huge exaggerations, thats beyond harsh to the point of being disrespectful IMO. Hogg doesnt deserve that. Which bit's are the huge exaggerations though? He is slow over anything more than 2-5 yards and is getting slower. Players constantly run off him and away from him. His passing is poor. He's never been a good passer of the ball throughout his career. Even a Watford supporting mate of mine said his passing was poor when we signed him. He often passes backwards or sideways. With his sideways ones often going behind or to the wrong foot of his team mate, so that the player has to stop and wait for the ball, rather than being able to run onto the ball. Lot's of his passes get intercepted in dangerous areas. Constantly slows the play down due to not being technically good enough to move the ball quickly, although he is not alone in that amongst our squad. Constantly bollocks and moans at everyone for every single mistake, but never ever put's his had up to apologies for his own. Constantly bollocks young players, rather than encouraging. Captain and one of the first names on the team sheet of a team that has failed to win in 155 Championship matches out of 226 (69% failure rate). That stat should tell you a lot about his and his teammates quality. I get that he has been here 10 years, I get that he's the captain, I get that he smashes into people and shows real genuine passion, which Town fans love (myself included) and are all fantastic traits. However, Hogg is one of many many players in our squad who isn't (and hasn't been for a few seasons) genuine Championship quality. The fact that Hogg is seen as one of our better players shows how poor our team is. All my opinion of course, which counts for bugger all. And I don't think Jonathan Hogg would give 2 shits what I think :-) UTT Your statistics are bang on correct, which I haven’t often seen in my time on here. Would it make a difference to your view of Hogg if you went further and analysed our results over the 11 seasons when he’s played and when he hasn’t? I have done that analysis, but I haven’t posted it on here because so few people give a shit about this sort of stuff and I’m really averse to  . But I will point out that I believe he’s missed 10 games this season and we’ve won once, drawn three and lost six. I sincerely hope that that record improves significantly in the next four games. To be fair to his detractors, 7 of his absences have been away from home, including all four of the 4-1 defeats and the 5-3 at Southampton, so we might not have been able to gather many points even if he’d been available. But our away record when he’s played, including as a sub, is W3 D8 L3, which means the draw at Stoke is the only one he missed where we didn’t lose. Overall this season it’s 0.6 of a point per game without him and 1.156 with him. And it’s consistently been the same throughout his time here, though not always quite so stark. Only Carlos in 2021-22 did better without him in his 11 seasons here, truly a miracle worker since Scott High replaced him the most times. He might be a loser, but he’s, statistically at least, one of the best losers ever to play for the club. |
|
|
|
Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Apr 12, 2024 20:17:02 GMT 1
What's his actual injury? He’s got that seriously disabling disease Warditis. Not many can survive it. Hits players after their 30th birthday, sometimes even sooner. |
|
|
|
Post by royrace on Apr 12, 2024 20:18:09 GMT 1
Which bit's are the huge exaggerations though? He is slow over anything more than 2-5 yards and is getting slower. Players constantly run off him and away from him. His passing is poor. He's never been a good passer of the ball throughout his career. Even a Watford supporting mate of mine said his passing was poor when we signed him. He often passes backwards or sideways. With his sideways ones often going behind or to the wrong foot of his team mate, so that the player has to stop and wait for the ball, rather than being able to run onto the ball. Lot's of his passes get intercepted in dangerous areas. Constantly slows the play down due to not being technically good enough to move the ball quickly, although he is not alone in that amongst our squad. Constantly bollocks and moans at everyone for every single mistake, but never ever put's his had up to apologies for his own. Constantly bollocks young players, rather than encouraging. Captain and one of the first names on the team sheet of a team that has failed to win in 155 Championship matches out of 226 (69% failure rate). That stat should tell you a lot about his and his teammates quality. I get that he has been here 10 years, I get that he's the captain, I get that he smashes into people and shows real genuine passion, which Town fans love (myself included) and are all fantastic traits. However, Hogg is one of many many players in our squad who isn't (and hasn't been for a few seasons) genuine Championship quality. The fact that Hogg is seen as one of our better players shows how poor our team is. All my opinion of course, which counts for bugger all. And I don't think Jonathan Hogg would give 2 shits what I think :-) UTT Your statistics are bang on correct, which I haven’t often seen in my time on here. Would it make a difference to your view of Hogg if you went further and analysed our results over the 11 seasons when he’s played and when he hasn’t? I have done that analysis, but I haven’t posted it on here because so few people give a shit about this sort of stuff and I’m really averse to . But I will point out that I believe he’s missed 10 games this season and we’ve won once, drawn three and lost six. I sincerely hope that that record improves significantly in the next four games. To be fair to his detractors, 7 of his absences have been away from home, including all four of the 4-1 defeats and the 5-3 at Southampton, so we might not have been able to gather many points even if he’d been available. But our away record when he’s played, including as a sub, is W3 D8 L3, which means the draw at Stoke is the only one he missed where we didn’t lose. Overall this season it’s 0.6 of a point per game without him and 1.156 with him. And it’s consistently been the same throughout his time here, though not always quite so stark. Only Carlos in 2021-22 did better without him in his 11 seasons here, truly a miracle worker since Scott High replaced him the most times. He might be a loser, but he’s, statistically at least, one of the best losers ever to play for the club. Interesting. Proof, if it were needed, that his detractors are talking shit. State of this squad and people are singling out Hogg! |
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Apr 12, 2024 20:19:08 GMT 1
What's his actual injury? He’s got that seriously disabling disease Warditis. Not many can survive it. Hits players after their 30th birthday, sometimes even sooner. Danny had a back problem, he couldnt be arsed to get off it😉 |
|
Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,964
|
Post by Sparrow on Apr 12, 2024 21:10:59 GMT 1
Your statistics are bang on correct, which I haven’t often seen in my time on here. Would it make a difference to your view of Hogg if you went further and analysed our results over the 11 seasons when he’s played and when he hasn’t? I have done that analysis, but I haven’t posted it on here because so few people give a shit about this sort of stuff and I’m really averse to . But I will point out that I believe he’s missed 10 games this season and we’ve won once, drawn three and lost six. I sincerely hope that that record improves significantly in the next four games. To be fair to his detractors, 7 of his absences have been away from home, including all four of the 4-1 defeats and the 5-3 at Southampton, so we might not have been able to gather many points even if he’d been available. But our away record when he’s played, including as a sub, is W3 D8 L3, which means the draw at Stoke is the only one he missed where we didn’t lose. Overall this season it’s 0.6 of a point per game without him and 1.156 with him. And it’s consistently been the same throughout his time here, though not always quite so stark. Only Carlos in 2021-22 did better without him in his 11 seasons here, truly a miracle worker since Scott High replaced him the most times. He might be a loser, but he’s, statistically at least, one of the best losers ever to play for the club. Interesting. Proof, if it were needed, that his detractors are talking shit. State of this squad and people are singling out Hogg! Yes interesting stat indeed. However, stats are only part of what i’d use to form an opinion on him. I see his performance on the pitch. I’ve seen him pass backward and sideways far more than he should. I’ve seen him struggle to pass actually, i’ve seen him be run past by opponents, i’ve seen him bollock someone one minute, then the next play an even worse pass and just put his head down and carry on without acknowledging his mistake I don’t think anyone is singling out Hogg. This is a thread about him, and the question raised is essentially will he or should he get another contract or is his time at Town done. Some people consider him a legend and want him to get another contract. Others see him as a poor quality player in a poor quality squad and want him, amongst others, to be moved on, so that we can hopefully rebuild with better quality No singling him out, just discussing him in a thread dedicated to him. No one is really talking shit, just offering opinions |
|
bigfatmonkey
Andy Booth Terrier
Ooh to be a, ooh to be a terrier
Posts: 3,031
|
Post by bigfatmonkey on Apr 12, 2024 21:47:20 GMT 1
|
|
. But I will point out that I believe he’s missed 10 games this season and we’ve won once, drawn three and lost six. I sincerely hope that that record improves significantly in the next four games. To be fair to his detractors, 7 of his absences have been away from home, including all four of the 4-1 defeats and the 5-3 at Southampton, so we might not have been able to gather many points even if he’d been available. But our away record when he’s played, including as a sub, is W3 D8 L3, which means the draw at Stoke is the only one he missed where we didn’t lose. Overall this season it’s 0.6 of a point per game without him and 1.156 with him. And it’s consistently been the same throughout his time here, though not always quite so stark. Only Carlos in 2021-22 did better without him in his 11 seasons here, truly a miracle worker since Scott High replaced him the most times. He might be a loser, but he’s, statistically at least, one of the best losers ever to play for the club. 
