|
|
Post by joeyjoneslocker on Apr 24, 2024 8:54:08 GMT 1
He’s not on his own though, I still can’t read the room. I’ve re read this and still don’t understand what he meant by ‘perhaps it needs to’. I don’t read any clarity. All I’ve read is the apparent extent to what abuse previous chairmen got, no clarity on what his comment actually implied. It was a stupid comment, yes probably born of frustration but still stupid. Some people just need a break away from social media. I shouldn't really have to explain myself, but I will do before more people start jumping on and accusing me of all sorts. Willo said, "So far he has. I doubt KN will be there in person on Saturday but I can see it getting as bad as it’s been for a long time if we lose and lose heavily". My comment of, "Perhaps it will get bad on Saturday if we go down. Perhaps it needs to..." was in direct response to Willo suggesting that the atmosphere/fans/whatever will be as bad as it's been for a long time. I personally think that perhaps it needs to be, perhaps some anger needs to be displayed when relegation is confirmed, to the players, the board, the club because for too long the club (under three different owners) have failed to read the room and think that everything is fine. Fans have continued, every season, to back the club, buying season tickets, turning up regularly, some even kept their money in the club during COVID, for very little in return. And I think that at this point, the club need to realise just how much the supporters have been taken for granted and just how much they are pissed off. This doesn't equate to me saying, "The owner should be getting death threats because that's what happened in the 90s". But then that should be obvious, in numerous posts I've condemned the abuse Nagle has received and also said it would be absurd to return to the days of the 90s with protests/death threats against the owner. But, as usual it seems, people see the username and just automatically jump on and start having a go. I don’t judge by a username on this section of the board. So no need to be on the defensive. You’ve made a point which clearly marks where we differ on this. ‘Fans have continued, every season, to back the club, buying season tickets, turning up regularly, some even kept their money in the club during COVID, for very little in return’ My perspective…that’s your decision to watch the games and buy tickets. You aren’t forced to do this. It’s your choice. If you think being relegated warrants displaying anger then crack on, again that’s your choice. No doubt you’ll be one of many. I’ve seen this scenario enough times to know it’s just part of the game. If people want to cry and moan when it’s shit that’s up to them. But like I asked before, what’s the end game? What do you think it will achieve? Everyone at the club already knows how the fans feel so what else is venting anger going to offer you? |
|
|
|
Post by terriers321 on Apr 24, 2024 8:57:24 GMT 1
Come on mate let’s take a step back and think about this. You were talking about protests and death threats, then said perhaps it will get bad Saturday and perhaps it needs to. To what end exactly? It’s just football. It’s a constant cycle of ups and downs. ‘Perhaps it needs to get bad’ is just poor form and throwing toys out of the pram. It’s the last thing we need. I won’t be cheering them off as I most likely won’t be there at 90 minutes as I ain’t staying to watch the death of our current Championship status. If, and it’s a big if, we win then yes I’ll most likely clap them off. For about 20 seconds. Then I’ll be off. The best thing to get the point across is every fan just leaves in silence when the whistle goes. No booing. No applauding. No staying for a lap of honour. That would send the biggest message I believe. That aint going to happen. If we go down without a fighting performance on Saturday theres going to be plenty of people letting there frustrations known. |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 24, 2024 8:58:34 GMT 1
I shouldn't really have to explain myself, but I will do before more people start jumping on and accusing me of all sorts. Willo said, "So far he has. I doubt KN will be there in person on Saturday but I can see it getting as bad as it’s been for a long time if we lose and lose heavily". My comment of, "Perhaps it will get bad on Saturday if we go down. Perhaps it needs to..." was in direct response to Willo suggesting that the atmosphere/fans/whatever will be as bad as it's been for a long time. I personally think that perhaps it needs to be, perhaps some anger needs to be displayed when relegation is confirmed, to the players, the board, the club because for too long the club (under three different owners) have failed to read the room and think that everything is fine. Fans have continued, every season, to back the club, buying season tickets, turning up regularly, some even kept their money in the club during COVID, for very little in return. And I think that at this point, the club need to realise just how much the supporters have been taken for granted and just how much they are pissed off. This doesn't equate to me saying, "The owner should be getting death threats because that's what happened in the 90s". But then that should be obvious, in numerous posts I've condemned the abuse Nagle has received and also said it would be absurd to return to the days of the 90s with protests/death threats against the owner. But, as usual it seems, people see the username and just automatically jump on and start having a go. I don’t judge by a username on this section of the board. So no need to be on the defensive. You’ve made a point which clearly marks where we differ on this. ‘Fans have continued, every season, to back the club, buying season tickets, turning up regularly, some even kept their money in the club during COVID, for very little in return’ My perspective…that’s your decision to watch the games and buy tickets. You aren’t forced to do this. It’s your choice. If you think being relegated warrants displaying anger then crack on, again that’s your choice. No doubt you’ll be one of many. I’ve seen this scenario enough times to know it’s just part of the game. If people want to cry and moan when it’s shit that’s up to them. But like I asked before, what’s the end game? What do you think it will achieve? Everyone at the club already knows how the fans feel so what else is venting anger going to offer you?As I've said, the club might realise that the fans have had enough of having the piss taken out of them. I don't think the club DO know how the fans feel, that's the point. |
|
Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
Posts: 3,924
|
Post by Wingman on Apr 24, 2024 9:08:12 GMT 1
I suspect the club probably do know how the fanbase feels, as Carmichael Dave is a regular contributor. The thing is, it's one thing us all venting on here but that ultimately is not going to change how the team performs on Saturday.
Andre needs to set us up to win, and motivate the lads to do so.
The crowd need to back the lads from the first minute but also the team need to respond and show some effort.
A win on Saturday would garner a real appreciation from the crowd, no question.
|
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 24, 2024 9:10:37 GMT 1
I suspect the club probably do know how the fanbase feels, as Carmichael Dave is a regular contributor. The thing is, it's one thing us all venting on here but that ultimately is not going to change how the team performs on Saturday. Andre needs to set us up to win, and motivate the lads to do so. The crowd need to back the lads from the first minute but also the team need to respond and show some effort. A win on Saturday would garner a real appreciation from the crowd, no question. With all due respect, this site is a very small sample of the fanbase, and most of the responses to Dave have been positive. There's a hell of a lot of people that DON'T come on here and they might have different opinions. |
|
|
|
Post by Big Ern on Apr 24, 2024 9:10:46 GMT 1
I don’t judge by a username on this section of the board. So no need to be on the defensive. You’ve made a point which clearly marks where we differ on this. ‘Fans have continued, every season, to back the club, buying season tickets, turning up regularly, some even kept their money in the club during COVID, for very little in return’ My perspective…that’s your decision to watch the games and buy tickets. You aren’t forced to do this. It’s your choice. If you think being relegated warrants displaying anger then crack on, again that’s your choice. No doubt you’ll be one of many. I’ve seen this scenario enough times to know it’s just part of the game. If people want to cry and moan when it’s shit that’s up to them. But like I asked before, what’s the end game? What do you think it will achieve? Everyone at the club already knows how the fans feel so what else is venting anger going to offer you?As I've said, the club might realise that the fans have had enough of having the piss taken out of them. I don't think the club DO know how the fans feel, that's the point. Given the abuse on twitter, the comments when town post a tweet, the comments on here, the comments on Facebook and the anger in the ground last Saturday...if the club don't know how the fans feel I would be very surprised. |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 24, 2024 9:16:03 GMT 1
As I've said, the club might realise that the fans have had enough of having the piss taken out of them. I don't think the club DO know how the fans feel, that's the point. Given the abuse on twitter, the comments when town post a tweet, the comments on here, the comments on Facebook and the anger in the ground last Saturday...if the club don't know how the fans feel I would be very surprised. Noisy majority, full of hot air, piss and wind (and I include myself in that). What about the silent thousands that say nothing on social media but will simply just stop attending? I know of numerous people, that aren't on social media, who have either stopped going or are not renewing next season. I think the club are going to be shocked next season, it won't just be a noisy few that stop going, it will be thousands among thousands that stop going. And as history has shown, it takes years and years for us to get that support back. |
|
|
|
Post by Big Ern on Apr 24, 2024 9:20:01 GMT 1
Given the abuse on twitter, the comments when town post a tweet, the comments on here, the comments on Facebook and the anger in the ground last Saturday...if the club don't know how the fans feel I would be very surprised. Noisy majority, full of hot air, piss and wind (and I include myself in that). What about the silent thousands that say nothing on social media but will simply just stop attending? I know of numerous people, that aren't on social media, who have either stopped going or are not renewing next season. I think the club are going to be shocked next season, it won't just be a noisy few that stop going, it will be thousands among thousands that stop going. And as history has shown, it takes years and years for us to get that support back. I would suggest that circumstances are different this time in that we have an owner that wants to back us. The last time we were relegated from this division we were penniless and went into administration. Some ambition in the summer and a few early wins will bring supporters back. One positive about relegation is that we can at last get rid of that tiny town 'happy to be here' syndrome because if the owner is serious about things being different this summer then we should be walking that league. |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 24, 2024 9:25:47 GMT 1
Noisy majority, full of hot air, piss and wind (and I include myself in that). What about the silent thousands that say nothing on social media but will simply just stop attending? I know of numerous people, that aren't on social media, who have either stopped going or are not renewing next season. I think the club are going to be shocked next season, it won't just be a noisy few that stop going, it will be thousands among thousands that stop going. And as history has shown, it takes years and years for us to get that support back. I would suggest that circumstances are different this time in that we have an owner that wants to back us. The last time we were relegated from this division we were penniless and went into administration. Some ambition in the summer and a few early wins will bring supporters back. One positive about relegation is that we can at last get rid of that tiny town 'happy to be here' syndrome because if the owner is serious about things being different this summer then we should be walking that league. No matter what the owner's intentions are (doesn't every single owner have good intentions?), we have been relegated (obviously not confirmed but let's be honest, we're down) in his first season as owner of the club. It's not been unlucky, and we haven't had the excuse of administration or players not being paid like last time, but we've had a catalogue of errors as long as your arm. If we're not making a decent fist of it next season, the fans won't be back for a long time. It's imperative that we ARE walking that league. I have no doubt that Nagle has good intentions, but so far, the decision making has been very poor, and everything points to him being in over his head. We've been here before, remember. Barry Rubery was a very successful businessman and was willing to get the chequebook out, spending millions of pounds on players and getting a big name manager in. But it quickly became apparent that he didn't know what he was doing, and the people he'd employed to run the club weren't much cop either. |
|
|
|
Post by terriersyndrome on Apr 24, 2024 9:27:58 GMT 1
Given the abuse on twitter, the comments when town post a tweet, the comments on here, the comments on Facebook and the anger in the ground last Saturday...if the club don't know how the fans feel I would be very surprised. Noisy majority, full of hot air, piss and wind (and I include myself in that). What about the silent thousands that say nothing on social media but will simply just stop attending? I know of numerous people, that aren't on social media, who have either stopped going or are not renewing next season. I think the club are going to be shocked next season, it won't just be a noisy few that stop going, it will be thousands among thousands that stop going. And as history has shown, it takes years and years for us to get that support back. I think the thousands of paid up season card owners that stopped going this season should give them an indication of what's to come. |
|
|
|
Post by Terriersmad on Apr 24, 2024 9:42:47 GMT 1
I would suggest that circumstances are different this time in that we have an owner that wants to back us. The last time we were relegated from this division we were penniless and went into administration. Some ambition in the summer and a few early wins will bring supporters back. One positive about relegation is that we can at last get rid of that tiny town 'happy to be here' syndrome because if the owner is serious about things being different this summer then we should be walking that league. No matter what the owner's intentions are (doesn't every single owner have good intentions?), we have been relegated (obviously not confirmed but let's be honest, we're down) in his first season as owner of the club. It's not been unlucky, and we haven't had the excuse of administration or players not being paid like last time, but we've had a catalogue of errors as long as your arm. If we're not making a decent fist of it next season, the fans won't be back for a long time. It's imperative that we ARE walking that league. I have no doubt that Nagle has good intentions, but so far, the decision making has been very poor, and everything points to him being in over his head. We've been here before, remember. Barry Rubery was a very successful businessman and was willing to get the chequebook out, spending millions of pounds on players and getting a big name manager in. But it quickly became apparent that he didn't know what he was doing, and the people he'd employed to run the club weren't much cop either. I actually agree with every word you say, which is worth saying because it's going to look like I disagree with you when it's more finding my own nuance. The point you make on excuses of administration, etc, with the catalogue of errors as long as arms and more is spot on. But doesn't that actually provide hope, in a way? We've made all these errors for several years. We've neglected areas of the playing squad. We've signed the wrong players. The errors are absolutely writ large on the club. But doesn't that also mean it's hard not to learn the salient lessons from them and make necessary improvements? It's learning the hard way, but we're not in an awful position to recover from the problems we've had. As a club could you argue we are not 'in a mess'? We're not in huge amounts of debt, we've a relatively low wage bill to work from meaning cut backs aren't going to be as much of a priority as they may otherwise me. The ownership situation is stable. We're not under transfer embargoes or wage restrictions. We've made mistakes, and we can point fingers, but we're in a good position to recover quickly. There's a distinct difference between mistakes being made that lead to a not very good football team and relegation, and fundamental issues surrounding ownership and money, such as at Reading and Wigan, where those issues prevent a not very good team being developed into a significantly better one. |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 24, 2024 9:50:19 GMT 1
No matter what the owner's intentions are (doesn't every single owner have good intentions?), we have been relegated (obviously not confirmed but let's be honest, we're down) in his first season as owner of the club. It's not been unlucky, and we haven't had the excuse of administration or players not being paid like last time, but we've had a catalogue of errors as long as your arm. If we're not making a decent fist of it next season, the fans won't be back for a long time. It's imperative that we ARE walking that league. I have no doubt that Nagle has good intentions, but so far, the decision making has been very poor, and everything points to him being in over his head. We've been here before, remember. Barry Rubery was a very successful businessman and was willing to get the chequebook out, spending millions of pounds on players and getting a big name manager in. But it quickly became apparent that he didn't know what he was doing, and the people he'd employed to run the club weren't much cop either. I actually agree with every word you say, which is worth saying because it's going to look like I disagree with you when it's more finding my own nuance. The point you make on excuses of administration, etc, with the catalogue of errors as long as arms and more is spot on. But doesn't that actually provide hope, in a way? We've made all these errors for several years. We've neglected areas of the playing squad. We've signed the wrong players. The errors are absolutely writ large on the club. But doesn't that also mean it's hard not to learn the salient lessons from them and make necessary improvements? It's learning the hard way, but we're not in an awful position to recover from the problems we've had. As a club could you argue we are not 'in a mess'? We're not in huge amounts of debt, we've a relatively low wage bill to work from meaning cut backs aren't going to be as much of a priority as they may otherwise me. The ownership situation is stable. We're not under transfer embargoes or wage restrictions. We've made mistakes, and we can point fingers, but we're in a good position to recover quickly. There's a distinct difference between mistakes being made that lead to a not very good football team and relegation, and fundamental issues surrounding ownership and money, such as at Reading and Wigan, where those issues prevent a not very good team being developed into a significantly better one. To be honest, I don't see where the hope is. In a way, the whole administration period was a blessing in disguise as when we went down, we weren't lumbered with all the players that had been relegated. We only had eight players on the books at the start of the following pre-season, which allowed Jacko to put a team together. I don't think we'll be afforded that luxury this time, and I suspect we'll be lumbered with a good number of the serial losers who are partly to blame for the relegation. At the moment, it's all based on hope. We've got no idea if Nagle is a good owner or not, as at the moment, his tenure has been a disaster. He may have the money, but does he have any idea? Do the people he's employed have any idea? League One is a division that bigger clubs than us have struggled to get out of, so what makes us any different? I have no confidence whatsoever at the moment that the hierarchy have any idea of how to get us out of League One. They've shown us nothing so far to show that they've got any idea. They thought we'd be fine to start a Championship season with a strikeforce of Hudlin, Harratt and Ward, they thought we'd be fine to give a manager a pre-season before getting rid of him after seven games, they thought Darren Moore was a good choice, they thought they could gamble on a foreign manager who's never managed in this country when we were in a precarious position, they thought they could sign players from foreign leagues and with injury records as long as your arm and get away with it. I cannot share the optimism, I'm sorry. |
|
|
|
Post by oneneilwarnock on Apr 24, 2024 9:55:40 GMT 1
I actually agree with every word you say, which is worth saying because it's going to look like I disagree with you when it's more finding my own nuance. The point you make on excuses of administration, etc, with the catalogue of errors as long as arms and more is spot on. But doesn't that actually provide hope, in a way? We've made all these errors for several years. We've neglected areas of the playing squad. We've signed the wrong players. The errors are absolutely writ large on the club. But doesn't that also mean it's hard not to learn the salient lessons from them and make necessary improvements? It's learning the hard way, but we're not in an awful position to recover from the problems we've had. As a club could you argue we are not 'in a mess'? We're not in huge amounts of debt, we've a relatively low wage bill to work from meaning cut backs aren't going to be as much of a priority as they may otherwise me. The ownership situation is stable. We're not under transfer embargoes or wage restrictions. We've made mistakes, and we can point fingers, but we're in a good position to recover quickly. There's a distinct difference between mistakes being made that lead to a not very good football team and relegation, and fundamental issues surrounding ownership and money, such as at Reading and Wigan, where those issues prevent a not very good team being developed into a significantly better one. To be honest, I don't see where the hope is. In a way, the whole administration period was a blessing in disguise as when we went down, we weren't lumbered with all the players that had been relegated. We only had eight players on the books at the start of the following pre-season, which allowed Jacko to put a team together. I don't think we'll be afforded that luxury this time, and I suspect we'll be lumbered with a good number of the serial losers who are partly to blame for the relegation. At the moment, it's all based on hope. We've got no idea if Nagle is a good owner or not, as at the moment, his tenure has been a disaster. He may have the money, but does he have any idea? Do the people he's employed have any idea? League One is a division that bigger clubs than us have struggled to get out of, so what makes us any different? I have no confidence whatsoever at the moment that the hierarchy have any idea of how to get us out of League One. They've shown us nothing so far to show that they've got any idea. They thought we'd be fine to start a Championship season with a strikeforce of Hudlin, Harratt and Ward, they thought we'd be fine to give a manager a pre-season before getting rid of him after seven games, they thought Darren Moore was a good choice, they thought they could gamble on a foreign manager who's never managed in this country when we were in a precarious position, they thought they could sign players from foreign leagues and with injury records as long as your arm and get away with it. I cannot share the optimism, I'm sorry. Kev’s great at talking absolute nonsense on Twitter though, how many points does that get us? |
|
|
|
Post by Mastercracker on Apr 24, 2024 9:58:05 GMT 1
I would suggest that circumstances are different this time in that we have an owner that wants to back us. The last time we were relegated from this division we were penniless and went into administration. Some ambition in the summer and a few early wins will bring supporters back. One positive about relegation is that we can at last get rid of that tiny town 'happy to be here' syndrome because if the owner is serious about things being different this summer then we should be walking that league. No matter what the owner's intentions are (doesn't every single owner have good intentions?), we have been relegated (obviously not confirmed but let's be honest, we're down) in his first season as owner of the club. It's not been unlucky, and we haven't had the excuse of administration or players not being paid like last time, but we've had a catalogue of errors as long as your arm. If we're not making a decent fist of it next season, the fans won't be back for a long time. It's imperative that we ARE walking that league. I have no doubt that Nagle has good intentions, but so far, the decision making has been very poor, and everything points to him being in over his head. We've been here before, remember. Barry Rubery was a very successful businessman and was willing to get the chequebook out, spending millions of pounds on players and getting a big name manager in. But it quickly became apparent that he didn't know what he was doing, and the people he'd employed to run the club weren't much cop either. His excuse is the absolute hospital pass from previous owners (quite apt as the team cant pass a ball 5 yards either) and the issues about summer budget and if that was enforced or choice. Enforced then I have some sympathy, choice and it just joins a long list of silly decisions. I fully agree it's a long way back from here. Maybe sounds callous but the only real way he regains support is via bankrolling us straight out of L1. All the other stuff such as stadium, academy, facilities etc is a sideshow at this point. Doesn't mean they don't need resolving but they aren't going to get fans back on board if the first team continues to let us down. |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 24, 2024 9:59:51 GMT 1
To be honest, I don't see where the hope is. In a way, the whole administration period was a blessing in disguise as when we went down, we weren't lumbered with all the players that had been relegated. We only had eight players on the books at the start of the following pre-season, which allowed Jacko to put a team together. I don't think we'll be afforded that luxury this time, and I suspect we'll be lumbered with a good number of the serial losers who are partly to blame for the relegation. At the moment, it's all based on hope. We've got no idea if Nagle is a good owner or not, as at the moment, his tenure has been a disaster. He may have the money, but does he have any idea? Do the people he's employed have any idea? League One is a division that bigger clubs than us have struggled to get out of, so what makes us any different? I have no confidence whatsoever at the moment that the hierarchy have any idea of how to get us out of League One. They've shown us nothing so far to show that they've got any idea. They thought we'd be fine to start a Championship season with a strikeforce of Hudlin, Harratt and Ward, they thought we'd be fine to give a manager a pre-season before getting rid of him after seven games, they thought Darren Moore was a good choice, they thought they could gamble on a foreign manager who's never managed in this country when we were in a precarious position, they thought they could sign players from foreign leagues and with injury records as long as your arm and get away with it. I cannot share the optimism, I'm sorry. Kev’s great at talking absolute nonsense on Twitter though, how many points does that get us? I don't even blame him for that in a way. He's come into an environment completely alien to him and he's trying to fit in. And, let's be honest, a lot of the fans love it, so you could argue it's worked. I am of the opinion that owners should say a lot less and not get drawn into comments about on the field matters beyond "great win" and "well done lads". I don't think it's appropriate for the owner to be passing comment on games, or suggesting he would pick different players to what the manager is picking or basically declaring that a manager will be sacked if he doesn't win the next game. I don't think it helps anyone, and it must be undermining for the manager to hear and read that stuff. I accept that I'm obviously in a minority with that opinion, but I just don't think it helps anyone to have the owner tweeting and talking about such matters. |
|
|
|
Post by Terriersmad on Apr 24, 2024 10:00:26 GMT 1
I actually agree with every word you say, which is worth saying because it's going to look like I disagree with you when it's more finding my own nuance. The point you make on excuses of administration, etc, with the catalogue of errors as long as arms and more is spot on. But doesn't that actually provide hope, in a way? We've made all these errors for several years. We've neglected areas of the playing squad. We've signed the wrong players. The errors are absolutely writ large on the club. But doesn't that also mean it's hard not to learn the salient lessons from them and make necessary improvements? It's learning the hard way, but we're not in an awful position to recover from the problems we've had. As a club could you argue we are not 'in a mess'? We're not in huge amounts of debt, we've a relatively low wage bill to work from meaning cut backs aren't going to be as much of a priority as they may otherwise me. The ownership situation is stable. We're not under transfer embargoes or wage restrictions. We've made mistakes, and we can point fingers, but we're in a good position to recover quickly. There's a distinct difference between mistakes being made that lead to a not very good football team and relegation, and fundamental issues surrounding ownership and money, such as at Reading and Wigan, where those issues prevent a not very good team being developed into a significantly better one. To be honest, I don't see where the hope is. In a way, the whole administration period was a blessing in disguise as when we went down, we weren't lumbered with all the players that had been relegated. We only had eight players on the books at the start of the following pre-season, which allowed Jacko to put a team together. I don't think we'll be afforded that luxury this time, and I suspect we'll be lumbered with a good number of the serial losers who are partly to blame for the relegation. At the moment, it's all based on hope. We've got no idea if Nagle is a good owner or not, as at the moment, his tenure has been a disaster. He may have the money, but does he have any idea? Do the people he's employed have any idea? League One is a division that bigger clubs than us have struggled to get out of, so what makes us any different? I have no confidence whatsoever at the moment that the hierarchy have any idea of how to get us out of League One. They've shown us nothing so far to show that they've got any idea. They thought we'd be fine to start a Championship season with a strikeforce of Hudlin, Harratt and Ward, they thought we'd be fine to give a manager a pre-season before getting rid of him after seven games, they thought Darren Moore was a good choice, they thought they could gamble on a foreign manager who's never managed in this country when we were in a precarious position, they thought they could sign players from foreign leagues and with injury records as long as your arm and get away with it. I cannot share the optimism, I'm sorry. Don't apologise. We have differing views. You make very valid points which reflect what has gone on, and I can certainly see your perspective. |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 24, 2024 10:01:38 GMT 1
To be honest, I don't see where the hope is. In a way, the whole administration period was a blessing in disguise as when we went down, we weren't lumbered with all the players that had been relegated. We only had eight players on the books at the start of the following pre-season, which allowed Jacko to put a team together. I don't think we'll be afforded that luxury this time, and I suspect we'll be lumbered with a good number of the serial losers who are partly to blame for the relegation. At the moment, it's all based on hope. We've got no idea if Nagle is a good owner or not, as at the moment, his tenure has been a disaster. He may have the money, but does he have any idea? Do the people he's employed have any idea? League One is a division that bigger clubs than us have struggled to get out of, so what makes us any different? I have no confidence whatsoever at the moment that the hierarchy have any idea of how to get us out of League One. They've shown us nothing so far to show that they've got any idea. They thought we'd be fine to start a Championship season with a strikeforce of Hudlin, Harratt and Ward, they thought we'd be fine to give a manager a pre-season before getting rid of him after seven games, they thought Darren Moore was a good choice, they thought they could gamble on a foreign manager who's never managed in this country when we were in a precarious position, they thought they could sign players from foreign leagues and with injury records as long as your arm and get away with it. I cannot share the optimism, I'm sorry. Don't apologise. We have differing views. You make very valid points which reflect what has gone on, and I can certainly see your perspective. I just want him to prove me wrong, but so far I can't see anything that suggests he'll do that. I hope I'm wrong and we're celebrating a promotion next season. |
|
|
|
Post by King Neil on Apr 24, 2024 10:08:06 GMT 1
Don't apologise. We have differing views. You make very valid points which reflect what has gone on, and I can certainly see your perspective. I just want him to prove me wrong, but so far I can't see anything that suggests he'll do that. I hope I'm wrong and we're celebrating a promotion next season. And I think it's the fear we won't come straight back that is upsetting us all Especially for us who went through it last time...the thought of being on the same footballing level as Cheltenham almost makes me want to cry |
|
|
|
Post by oneneilwarnock on Apr 24, 2024 10:17:41 GMT 1
Kev’s great at talking absolute nonsense on Twitter though, how many points does that get us? I don't even blame him for that in a way. He's come into an environment completely alien to him and he's trying to fit in. And, let's be honest, a lot of the fans love it, so you could argue it's worked. I am of the opinion that owners should say a lot less and not get drawn into comments about on the field matters beyond "great win" and "well done lads". I don't think it's appropriate for the owner to be passing comment on games, or suggesting he would pick different players to what the manager is picking or basically declaring that a manager will be sacked if he doesn't win the next game. I don't think it helps anyone, and it must be undermining for the manager to hear and read that stuff. I accept that I'm obviously in a minority with that opinion, but I just don't think it helps anyone to have the owner tweeting and talking about such matters. I don’t think you’re in a minority with this one, anybody with common sense and a general understanding of English football know it’s not a good idea to be doing the above. Id hope he will learn his lesson and just leave twitter alone when we’re in league one. |
|
|
|
Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Apr 24, 2024 10:24:33 GMT 1
Did he though? Unless you know something we don't, like fans were outside his house barracking him, making menacing calls, death threats or leaving horses heads on his pillow at night then a few folk on here complaining about him is pretty tame. I never ever even heard one dissenting murmur at games about him or one anti Hoyle chant or anything. Do you really think it was legitimate opinions on here I was referring to? I've no idea what you are referring to but I suspect you are suggesting that something has happened that is not widely known. |
|
|
|
Post by fredcarno1 on Apr 24, 2024 10:51:11 GMT 1
Noisy majority, full of hot air, piss and wind (and I include myself in that). What about the silent thousands that say nothing on social media but will simply just stop attending? I know of numerous people, that aren't on social media, who have either stopped going or are not renewing next season. I think the club are going to be shocked next season, it won't just be a noisy few that stop going, it will be thousands among thousands that stop going. And as history has shown, it takes years and years for us to get that support back. I would suggest that circumstances are different this time in that we have an owner that wants to back us. The last time we were relegated from this division we were penniless and went into administration. Some ambition in the summer and a few early wins will bring supporters back. One positive about relegation is that we can at last get rid of that tiny town 'happy to be here' syndrome because if the owner is serious about things being different this summer then we should be walking that league. Big floor in the plan is most of the current playing staff are contracted for next season. This lot are serial loosers many of whom are made out to be miles better than they are, 9 times we’ve conceded 4+ goals this season tells you what you need to know. No one will come in for 90% of our squad, they’re in the main poor footballers with poor attitudes. A squad made up of the likes of Ward, Simpson, Hudlin, Jackson, Headley, Pearson, Kasumu, Ruffles, Lees, Turton wont frighten anyone in the Championship. |
|
|
|
Post by Terrier Ramone on Apr 24, 2024 10:56:39 GMT 1
Some real anger from those sat around me last Saturday, when previously it's been more or less apathy and muted grumblings; with isolated outbursts of frustration from individuals (including myself). I haven't seen real anger from our fans en masse for a while, not even when we were in the depths of despair last season under MMF. It has to be said though, we didn't capitulate under the obnoxious Scot like we have under Moore and Breitenreiter. Lose on Saturday and it really will be a toxic atmosphere, probably spilling out into the car park after the game when their fans start taking the piss out of ours. I would expect a heavy police presence on Saturday given the gravity of our situation. I’d also expect the police and stewards are made aware of the previous time, albeit over 20 years ago, we played Birmingham City in an end of season clash which saw us relegated and their fans taking the piss mercilessly. Some of us have long memories. I am genuinely in two minds about going on Saturday, the thought of their fans taunting us (again) if things go wrong, coupled with the fact that goals from Bacuna &, especially that rat dwarf Pritchard may be involved, makes me think that I might be better to stay away. I said this before the Swansea game too, I genuinely think the best chance we have to win the game is to let no fans in at all. |
|
|
|
Post by willo on Apr 24, 2024 11:43:48 GMT 1
I would expect a heavy police presence on Saturday given the gravity of our situation. I’d also expect the police and stewards are made aware of the previous time, albeit over 20 years ago, we played Birmingham City in an end of season clash which saw us relegated and their fans taking the piss mercilessly. Some of us have long memories. I am genuinely in two minds about going on Saturday, the thought of their fans taunting us (again) if things go wrong, coupled with the fact that goals from Bacuna &, especially that rat dwarf Pritchard may be involved, makes me think that I might be better to stay away. I said this before the Swansea game too, I genuinely think the best chance we have to win the game is to let no fans in at all. I’m of exactly the opposite mindset. Look, if we win (which I don’t think we have the mental resolve to do), it keeps it going for another week and leaves Birmingham with one foot in League 1. If we lose, I’ll be letting the players know exactly what I think as they leave the field because by then we’ll be definitely down. The atmosphere will be bristling with nervous anticipation before ko as to what will come and it’ll be the same for the blue noses. These are the games you want, full of tension with something riding on it and it could go absolutely any way. Maybe I’m a masochist but I can’t wait tbh. |
|
|
|
Post by mosher on Apr 24, 2024 13:28:23 GMT 1
Remember reading that when you first posted it, very interesting read and I recall and was around for much of it. Old Longpockets, 😂. "Funnily enough, while Nagle has to take some responsibility for the way things have gone this season, he isn’t to blame for much of the problems" Maybe if you'd have posted it you wouldn't be accused of hating Nagle  |
|
|
|
Post by mosher on Apr 24, 2024 13:36:42 GMT 1
Slightly harsh on DC there. I'm sure if he trawls back he will find that htafcokay clarified what he meant. DC does have connections at the top, but has zero influence on what goes on. It is clear he has good intentions, being a middle man as such. He is willing to read the room and maybe have a word in Kevs ear, but ultimately, that's all it can be. It is up to Kev and his team to do what they want with information DC passes on to them. Alternatively, he also comes on and reassures us. He won't know everything, he probably can't tell us everything. But he does hint and direct us in things that are happening. His focus should lie in better places than trying to pick a argument over one daft post. Why? Justasmithers has no actual input into the running of the club, has no role to fulfill within the club, he is literally JUST a go-between. Personally I'm happy that we've got a (seemingly) genuinely interested bloke coming on here, reading our worries and hopes, who has the ear of the owner. Now if he was Cartwright or Edwards (or Nagle himself) coming on here arguing over a post that would be a different matter. |
|
|
|
Post by htafcokay on Apr 24, 2024 13:38:41 GMT 1
I've never posted it as far as I'm aware! Intended to give it to And He Takes That Chance, but I never bothered in the end. It was only a rough draft of something written on a whim, but I found it interesting how some were suggesting that abusing the chairman was a completely new thing. "Funnily enough, while Nagle has to take some responsibility for the way things have gone this season, he isn’t to blame for much of the problems" Maybe if you'd have posted it you wouldn't be accused of hating Nagle I'm sure there'd be other reasons to have a go instead. Even got accused of disliking Wagner yesterday  he's only one of my favourite ever Town managers... |
|
|
|
Post by mosher on Apr 24, 2024 13:38:49 GMT 1
I shouldn't really have to explain myself, but I will do before more people start jumping on and accusing me of all sorts. Willo said, "So far he has. I doubt KN will be there in person on Saturday but I can see it getting as bad as it’s been for a long time if we lose and lose heavily". My comment of, "Perhaps it will get bad on Saturday if we go down. Perhaps it needs to..." was in direct response to Willo suggesting that the atmosphere/fans/whatever will be as bad as it's been for a long time. I personally think that perhaps it needs to be, perhaps some anger needs to be displayed when relegation is confirmed, to the players, the board, the club because for too long the club (under three different owners) have failed to read the room and think that everything is fine. Fans have continued, every season, to back the club, buying season tickets, turning up regularly, some even kept their money in the club during COVID, for very little in return. And I think that at this point, the club need to realise just how much the supporters have been taken for granted and just how much they are pissed off. This doesn't equate to me saying, "The owner should be getting death threats because that's what happened in the 90s". But then that should be obvious, in numerous posts I've condemned the abuse Nagle has received and also said it would be absurd to return to the days of the 90s with protests/death threats against the owner. But, as usual it seems, people see the username and just automatically jump on and start having a go. Bro you listed all these death threats and then said it needs to get bad on Saturday. I appreciate you probably don't think anyone needs to die but please stop being defensive and just admit it was poorly worded. It is so tiresome Have you signed up JUST to have a pop? |
|
|
|
Post by rockwall on Apr 24, 2024 14:41:38 GMT 1
Slightly harsh on DC there. I'm sure if he trawls back he will find that htafcokay clarified what he meant. DC does have connections at the top, but has zero influence on what goes on. It is clear he has good intentions, being a middle man as such. He is willing to read the room and maybe have a word in Kevs ear, but ultimately, that's all it can be. It is up to Kev and his team to do what they want with information DC passes on to them. Alternatively, he also comes on and reassures us. He won't know everything, he probably can't tell us everything. But he does hint and direct us in things that are happening. His focus should lie in better places than trying to pick a argument over one daft post. Same could be said by most of us on here. People are always jumping on a post. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,610
|
Post by goodbet on Apr 24, 2024 15:21:20 GMT 1
I think some of our fans are a disgrace and all we hear is "we deserve better" well doesn't every club. So what about fans at Derby, Pompey, Blackpool, Barnsley, Bolton, Charlton and even Notts County and Swindon or even non league Oldham an ex Premier league side. Football has changed so much and changed for the worse and its sad to say the fans have followed suit. The best chairman in years at this club and he made mistakes he admitted that, well there is an old saying "be careful what you wish for". How many of the moaners will be there next season. I'm with you regarding dean 👍 The best chairman in my lifetime and I have been watching since the mid 70,s so like a few more on here..seen a lot He wasn't wealthy enough to be able to back us any more than he did,he would have soon been out of pocket had he done so My local side donny rovers owner is wealthier than Dean,a personal wealth of half a billion and they spend fcuk all We have had 11 great years with Dean in charge and he Never took us back to that hell hole called league 1 He's a good man and has to spend the rest of his life with a life threatening condition Dean was good until he wasn't. He never took us back to the 3rd level but it was getting closer year by year and he took us to the brink last year. We are now seeing that the state he left the club in is finally coming back to bite us, because the new owner put his faith in a bunch of chancers that had no concept of what they had and what was needed to be done to turn the ship around. |
|
|
|
Post by King Neil on Apr 24, 2024 16:04:06 GMT 1
I'm with you regarding dean 👍 The best chairman in my lifetime and I have been watching since the mid 70,s so like a few more on here..seen a lot He wasn't wealthy enough to be able to back us any more than he did,he would have soon been out of pocket had he done so My local side donny rovers owner is wealthier than Dean,a personal wealth of half a billion and they spend fcuk all We have had 11 great years with Dean in charge and he Never took us back to that hell hole called league 1 He's a good man and has to spend the rest of his life with a life threatening condition Dean was good until he wasn't. He never took us back to the 3rd level but it was getting closer year by year and he took us to the brink last year. We are now seeing that the state he left the club in is finally coming back to bite us, because the new owner put his faith in a bunch of chancers that had no concept of what they had and what was needed to be done to turn the ship around. I just think his priorities changed with that ongoing illness |
|
he's only one of my favourite ever Town managers...