Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
Posts: 3,918
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Post by Wingman on May 15, 2024 13:27:32 GMT 1
We've signed some absolute dross in the last five years. Kyle Hudlin, Richard Keogh, Richard Stearman, Frazier Campbell, Herbert Bockhorn, Rolando Aarons, Joel Pereira, Yaya Sanogo, Mipo Odubeko, Luke Mbete, Anthony Knockaert, Martyn Waghorn, Matt Lowton, Connor Mahoney, Will Boyle, David Kasumu, Tyreece Simpson. And that's just off the top of my head. Stearman gave it his best at least even though he could be a loose cannon. Add in Tom Edwards, Burgtwat and I’d even say Ryan Schofield. All utter garbage. All costing a likely £2-3m in fees and wages overall at least. Kasumu I still have some hope for, eternal optimist. Just wastefulness and gives credence to the saying ‘buy shit and buy twice.’ Hudlin is this decades Tom Denton. Add in Rowe, High, Phillips etc from the current ‘B Team’ squad and we don’t half need a dose of salts through that squad. Awful. |
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Post by yoy on May 15, 2024 13:50:05 GMT 1
I’d remove Kasumu from that list as he’s given decent value last season Aside from Helik, and possibly Thomas, I don’t think any of them gave us decent value last season. Kasumu tried I’ll give him that much, but like so many of them he just isn’t good enough. I can see where you're coming from but that isn't it for me. The problem for me is that there is just no balance in the midfield. We simply didn't have the right combinations and all the players we could drop in there were too similar. Given his attributes, I am also not surprised that his better performances seemed to come at wing back or full back. |
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Post by yoy on May 15, 2024 13:53:20 GMT 1
Kyle Hudlin, Richard Keogh, Richard Stearman, Frazier Campbell, Herbert Bockhorn, Rolando Aarons, Joel Pereira, Yaya Sanogo, Mipo Odubeko, Luke Mbete, Anthony Knockaert, Martyn Waghorn, Matt Lowton, Connor Mahoney, Will Boyle, David Kasumu, Tyreece Simpson. And that's just off the top of my head. Stearman gave it his best at least even though he could be a loose cannon. Add in Tom Edwards, Burgtwat and I’d even say Ryan Schofield. All utter garbage. All costing a likely £2-3m in fees and wages overall at least. Kasumu I still have some hope for, eternal optimist. Just wastefulness and gives credence to the saying ‘buy shit and buy twice.’ Hudlin is this decades Tom Denton. Add in Rowe, High, Phillips etc from the current ‘B Team’ squad and we don’t half need a dose of salts through that squad. Awful. I think the B Team issue has been our reliance on it. We seem to have needed almost every player in there to be a success. It has felt way out of kilter with historical averages of the number of players who actually make it from reserves to first team. |
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Wingman
Mental Health Support Group
Posts: 3,918
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Post by Wingman on May 15, 2024 13:55:03 GMT 1
Stearman gave it his best at least even though he could be a loose cannon. Add in Tom Edwards, Burgtwat and I’d even say Ryan Schofield. All utter garbage. All costing a likely £2-3m in fees and wages overall at least. Kasumu I still have some hope for, eternal optimist. Just wastefulness and gives credence to the saying ‘buy shit and buy twice.’ Hudlin is this decades Tom Denton. Add in Rowe, High, Phillips etc from the current ‘B Team’ squad and we don’t half need a dose of salts through that squad. Awful. I think the B Team issue has been our reliance on it. We seem to have needed almost every player in there to be a success. It has felt way out of kilter with historical averages of the number of players who actually make it from reserves to first team. Totally agree 👍🏼 |
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cuz
Iain Dunn Terrier
Posts: 408
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Post by cuz on May 15, 2024 13:56:32 GMT 1
Kyle Hudlin, Richard Keogh, Richard Stearman, Frazier Campbell, Herbert Bockhorn, Rolando Aarons, Joel Pereira, Yaya Sanogo, Mipo Odubeko, Luke Mbete, Anthony Knockaert, Martyn Waghorn, Matt Lowton, Connor Mahoney, Will Boyle, David Kasumu, Tyreece Simpson. And that's just off the top of my head. Stearman gave it his best at least even though he could be a loose cannon. Add in Tom Edwards, Burgtwat and I’d even say Ryan Schofield. All utter garbage. All costing a likely £2-3m in fees and wages overall at least. Kasumu I still have some hope for, eternal optimist. Just wastefulness and gives credence to the saying ‘buy shit and buy twice.’ Hudlin is this decades Tom Denton. Add in Rowe, High, Phillips etc from the current ‘B Team’ squad and we don’t half need a dose of salts through that squad. Awful. I wish you would stop sitting on the fence wingman. Made me chuckle! |
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Post by royrace on May 15, 2024 13:58:29 GMT 1
Kyle Hudlin, Richard Keogh, Richard Stearman, Frazier Campbell, Herbert Bockhorn, Rolando Aarons, Joel Pereira, Yaya Sanogo, Mipo Odubeko, Luke Mbete, Anthony Knockaert, Martyn Waghorn, Matt Lowton, Connor Mahoney, Will Boyle, David Kasumu, Tyreece Simpson. And that's just off the top of my head. I’d argue Stearman and Keogh (begrudgingly) served a purpose at the time but the rest wholeheartedly agree with, absolute shite. Still hilarious that Campbell would still be more use today than Simpson and Hudlin however. Agreed, I'd take stearman, Keogh, Campbell, kassumu off that list. They all contributed and crazy as it seems we've not had a better striker than Campbell since he left! |
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Post by Captainslapper on May 15, 2024 13:59:34 GMT 1
I’d remove Kasumu from that list as he’s given decent value last season Aside from Helik, and possibly Thomas, I don’t think any of them gave us decent value last season. Kasumu tried I’ll give him that much, but like so many of them he just isn’t good enough. I think theres a danger we portray our players as being worse than they are because we ended up going down. Many of them are no great shakes in truth but that said, I think we were only one player from a comfortable mid table position. That one player being a reasonably decent striker who could play most of the games. This squad wouldn't have gone down if it had one of those as quite a few of those draws would have turned into wins. But we went through the whole season with nothing like one. |
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Post by St Dogs Terrier on May 15, 2024 14:00:45 GMT 1
Boyle went on to do OK at Wrexham - we may meet him next season. Didn't Boyle also play regularly at Cheltenham under their then manager Michael Duff? |
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Post by Captainslapper on May 15, 2024 14:01:24 GMT 1
I’d argue Stearman and Keogh (begrudgingly) served a purpose at the time but the rest wholeheartedly agree with, absolute shite. Still hilarious that Campbell would still be more use today than Simpson and Hudlin however. Agreed, I'd take stearman, Keogh, Campbell, kassumu off that list. They all contributed and crazy as it seems we've not had a better striker than Campbell since he left! And Will Boyle for me. He was brought in as a back up centre back..4th or 5th choice really,,,and when he was called on he did a decent enough job I thought. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,604
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Post by goodbet on May 15, 2024 14:06:07 GMT 1
Just think that we let go of around 28 last summer, but that included loan players etc.
I guess that the list is far from comprehensive.
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Post by townatheart on May 15, 2024 14:09:29 GMT 1
Aside from Helik, and possibly Thomas, I don’t think any of them gave us decent value last season. Kasumu tried I’ll give him that much, but like so many of them he just isn’t good enough. I think theres a danger we portray our players as being worse than they are because we ended up going down. Many of them are no great shakes in truth but that said, I think we were only one player from a comfortable mid table position. That one player being a reasonably decent striker who could play most of the games. This squad wouldn't have gone down if it had one of those as quite a few of those draws would have turned into wins. But we went through the whole season with nothing like one. Just about agree, but would add one more to the striker (first choice granted) in a midfielder who could control/pass a ball a bit. |
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Post by leroy212 on May 15, 2024 14:10:01 GMT 1
I think the B Team issue has been our reliance on it. We seem to have needed almost every player in there to be a success. It has felt way out of kilter with historical averages of the number of players who actually make it from reserves to first team. Totally agree 👍🏼 Think hoyle had to try get first team players out of the b team, for vindication from scrapping the academy |
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Post by Mastercracker on May 15, 2024 14:10:39 GMT 1
Stearman gave it his best at least even though he could be a loose cannon. Add in Tom Edwards, Burgtwat and I’d even say Ryan Schofield. All utter garbage. All costing a likely £2-3m in fees and wages overall at least. Kasumu I still have some hope for, eternal optimist. Just wastefulness and gives credence to the saying ‘buy shit and buy twice.’ Hudlin is this decades Tom Denton. Add in Rowe, High, Phillips etc from the current ‘B Team’ squad and we don’t half need a dose of salts through that squad. Awful. I think the B Team issue has been our reliance on it. We seem to have needed almost every player in there to be a success. It has felt way out of kilter with historical averages of the number of players who actually make it from reserves to first team. Because as usual with HTFC we half arsed the project. The supposed plan after binning the academy was to actually purchase youth players or pick up older players released from high class academies, as we had done with Billing and Tommy Smith. Then play them in high calibre friendlies against strong opposition. We sort of did this for about 12-18 months and this is when we signed Diarra and Camara. From that point on all we've done is sign players from London who've barely ever been in a proper academy setup, or players released from the academies of clubs no better and often worse than ourselves. Plus players from non league who've then gone from B team to First team out of necessity. It might have worked had we done it properly, although the cynic in me thinks it was only ever done as a cost cutting exercise. Hoyle seemed to think the academy wasn't doing its job unless half the team was coming from there every season, and thats just wholly unrealistic. We should have gone for Cat A when we were in the Premier League rather than shrivelled, and now it will take years to even get it back to where it was. |
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Post by townarentbest on May 15, 2024 14:16:14 GMT 1
Kyle Hudlin, Richard Keogh, Richard Stearman, Frazier Campbell, Herbert Bockhorn, Rolando Aarons, Joel Pereira, Yaya Sanogo, Mipo Odubeko, Luke Mbete, Anthony Knockaert, Martyn Waghorn, Matt Lowton, Connor Mahoney, Will Boyle, David Kasumu, Tyreece Simpson. And that's just off the top of my head. Waghorn played 24 games this season for Derby and spored 7 goals....anf got promoted - Danny Ward on the other hand.... ...scored 3 in 21 games in a losing team playing at a HIGHER level. Seems broadly comparable 🤷♂️ Waghorn scored just TWO goals since last August at that easier level, thats worse than Ward's return over the last 8 months😕 |
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Post by Captainslapper on May 15, 2024 14:25:31 GMT 1
I think theres a danger we portray our players as being worse than they are because we ended up going down. Many of them are no great shakes in truth but that said, I think we were only one player from a comfortable mid table position. That one player being a reasonably decent striker who could play most of the games. This squad wouldn't have gone down if it had one of those as quite a few of those draws would have turned into wins. But we went through the whole season with nothing like one. Just about agree, but would add one more to the striker (first choice granted) in a midfielder who could control/pass a ball a bit. I wouldn't disagree, but you could go through most of the positions and wish wed had a better player in that role. But for me the absolute glaring hole in our squad was that missing striker. Wouldn't have even had to have been a brilliantly prolific one to make all the difference to our league position ..just a reasonably decent goalscorer. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on May 15, 2024 14:34:08 GMT 1
Just about agree, but would add one more to the striker (first choice granted) in a midfielder who could control/pass a ball a bit. I wouldn't disagree, but you could go through most of the positions and wish wed had a better player in that role. But for me the absolute glaring hole in our squad was that missing striker. Wouldn't have even had to have been a brilliantly prolific one to make all the difference to our league position ..just a reasonably decent goalscorer. we played a load of matches without a recognisable striker in the side. I lost count of how many decent balls went into a near empty box. Criminal really. |
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Post by townarentbest on May 15, 2024 14:52:31 GMT 1
Just about agree, but would add one more to the striker (first choice granted) in a midfielder who could control/pass a ball a bit. I wouldn't disagree, but you could go through most of the positions and wish wed had a better player in that role. But for me the absolute glaring hole in our squad was that missing striker. Wouldn't have even had to have been a brilliantly prolific one to make all the difference to our league position ..just a reasonably decent goalscorer. Agree. If Healey had joined in August and was fit, we'd *definitely* not be relegated, in fact if he'd joined in January and was fit to play every game we'd likely not have been relegated. Not too bothered though, oddly enough it feels like relegation has improved our likelihood of being in a better position 12 months from now than had we stayed up! |
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Sparrow
Frank Worthington Terrier
Posts: 1,963
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Post by Sparrow on May 15, 2024 14:54:44 GMT 1
I think the B Team issue has been our reliance on it. We seem to have needed almost every player in there to be a success. It has felt way out of kilter with historical averages of the number of players who actually make it from reserves to first team. Because as usual with HTFC we half arsed the project. The supposed plan after binning the academy was to actually purchase youth players or pick up older players released from high class academies, as we had done with Billing and Tommy Smith. Then play them in high calibre friendlies against strong opposition. We sort of did this for about 12-18 months and this is when we signed Diarra and Camara. From that point on all we've done is sign players from London who've barely ever been in a proper academy setup, or players released from the academies of clubs no better and often worse than ourselves. Plus players from non league who've then gone from B team to First team out of necessity. It might have worked had we done it properly, although the cynic in me thinks it was only ever done as a cost cutting exercise. Hoyle seemed to think the academy wasn't doing its job unless half the team was coming from there every season, and thats just wholly unrealistic. We should have gone for Cat A when we were in the Premier League rather than shrivelled, and now it will take years to even get it back to where it was. The bit in bold isn't quite true. Some have been signed from the following clubs: Man City Man United Spurs Brighton Chelsea Crystal Palace Arsenal Spurs Everton We've not actually signed that many directly from Grassroots or that haven't really been in Academies before I do agree in general with your post though |
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Post by sallycinnamon on May 15, 2024 15:13:31 GMT 1
Aside from Helik, and possibly Thomas, I don’t think any of them gave us decent value last season. Kasumu tried I’ll give him that much, but like so many of them he just isn’t good enough. I can see where you're coming from but that isn't it for me. The problem for me is that there is just no balance in the midfield. We simply didn't have the right combinations and all the players we could drop in there were too similar. Given his attributes, I am also not surprised that his better performances seemed to come at wing back or full back. Agree with this and I'd be playing Kasumu right wing back...whether that's starting or not depending on summer business. |
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Post by Mastercracker on May 15, 2024 15:15:12 GMT 1
Because as usual with HTFC we half arsed the project. The supposed plan after binning the academy was to actually purchase youth players or pick up older players released from high class academies, as we had done with Billing and Tommy Smith. Then play them in high calibre friendlies against strong opposition. We sort of did this for about 12-18 months and this is when we signed Diarra and Camara. From that point on all we've done is sign players from London who've barely ever been in a proper academy setup, or players released from the academies of clubs no better and often worse than ourselves. Plus players from non league who've then gone from B team to First team out of necessity. It might have worked had we done it properly, although the cynic in me thinks it was only ever done as a cost cutting exercise. Hoyle seemed to think the academy wasn't doing its job unless half the team was coming from there every season, and thats just wholly unrealistic. We should have gone for Cat A when we were in the Premier League rather than shrivelled, and now it will take years to even get it back to where it was. The bit in bold isn't quite true. Some have been signed from the following clubs: Man City Man United Spurs Brighton Chelsea Crystal Palace Arsenal Spurs Everton We've not actually signed that many directly from Grassroots or that haven't really been in Academies beforeI do agree in general with your post though I'll bow to your knowledge as you pay more attention than me, but we seemed to go through a spell of signing a few from London 'pretend' academies such as XYZ Academy? I also remember a lad signing who was released from Cheltenham. Edit - I can spot 6 on here xyzacademy.co.uk/players/ |
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Post by Detective Boyle on May 15, 2024 15:28:19 GMT 1
Aside from Helik, and possibly Thomas, I don’t think any of them gave us decent value last season. Kasumu tried I’ll give him that much, but like so many of them he just isn’t good enough. I think theres a danger we portray our players as being worse than they are because we ended up going down. Many of them are no great shakes in truth but that said, I think we were only one player from a comfortable mid table position. That one player being a reasonably decent striker who could play most of the games. This squad wouldn't have gone down if it had one of those as quite a few of those draws would have turned into wins. But we went through the whole season with nothing like one. Striker whilst definitely needed wasn’t the glaring issue for me. I have never seen a town side assembled in a way that so many players cannot pass a ball to a teammate over 5 yards away. So many games this season I fear at what our pass completion was. Pearson Kasumu Matos Thomas Headley All lost the ball carelessly and continuously with very little quality yet formed the spine of our team. That for me is the most obvious reason we deservedly went down, we didn’t have enough technical quality for the division. I was gutted when Balker was injured because although we saw very little of him, I think he would have brought so much composure to our passing. |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on May 15, 2024 15:29:05 GMT 1
I think the B Team issue has been our reliance on it. We seem to have needed almost every player in there to be a success. It has felt way out of kilter with historical averages of the number of players who actually make it from reserves to first team. Because as usual with HTFC we half arsed the project. The supposed plan after binning the academy was to actually purchase youth players or pick up older players released from high class academies, as we had done with Billing and Tommy Smith. Then play them in high calibre friendlies against strong opposition. We sort of did this for about 12-18 months and this is when we signed Diarra and Camara. From that point on all we've done is sign players from London who've barely ever been in a proper academy setup, or players released from the academies of clubs no better and often worse than ourselves. Plus players from non league who've then gone from B team to First team out of necessity. It might have worked had we done it properly, although the cynic in me thinks it was only ever done as a cost cutting exercise. Hoyle seemed to think the academy wasn't doing its job unless half the team was coming from there every season, and thats just wholly unrealistic. We should have gone for Cat A when we were in the Premier League rather than shrivelled, and now it will take years to even get it back to where it was. Maybe we should questioning the quality for the coaching at academy level. Two of our coaches are failed academy players themselves. Now they may be good at what they do, but we haven't produced many gems in recent years. Hopefully Nagle's revamp will produce better results in the future. |
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Post by hoggy1975 on May 15, 2024 15:34:39 GMT 1
I think theres a danger we portray our players as being worse than they are because we ended up going down. Many of them are no great shakes in truth but that said, I think we were only one player from a comfortable mid table position. That one player being a reasonably decent striker who could play most of the games. This squad wouldn't have gone down if it had one of those as quite a few of those draws would have turned into wins. But we went through the whole season with nothing like one. Striker whilst definitely needed wasn’t the glaring issue for me. I have never seen a town side assembled in a way that so many players cannot pass a ball to a teammate over 5 yards away. So many games this season I fear at what our pass completion was. Pearson Kasumu Matos Thomas Headley All lost the ball carelessly and continuously with very little quality yet formed the spine of our team. That for me is the most obvious reason we deservedly went down, we didn’t have enough technical quality for the division. I was gutted when Balker was injured because although we saw very little of him, I think he would have brought so much composure to our passing. I’ve highlighted before it was the second lowest in the league, which I’m not surprised at. We needed 1, or probably 2, players that could actually hold onto the ball and be able to make simple passes. For that reason I wouldn’t want Kasamu starting for us even in league one. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on May 15, 2024 15:40:27 GMT 1
The bit in bold isn't quite true. Some have been signed from the following clubs: Man City Man United Spurs Brighton Chelsea Crystal Palace Arsenal Spurs Everton We've not actually signed that many directly from Grassroots or that haven't really been in Academies beforeI do agree in general with your post though I'll bow to your knowledge as you pay more attention than me, but we seemed to go through a spell of signing a few from London 'pretend' academies such as XYZ Academy? I also remember a lad signing who was released from Cheltenham. Edit - I can spot 6 on here xyzacademy.co.uk/players/A quick search shows that they list 6 town players: Aaron Rowe - he actually came through Orient's youth set up Mustapha Olagunju - did appear to start at XYZ Anthony Gregory - was actually at Arsenal from the age of 10 Andrew Ijiwole - is actually now at Peterborough, started at Man City, came to us, then left Micah Obiero - he actually came through Orient's youth set up Jordan Thomas - no record of him on the club's site |
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Post by tepidterrier on May 15, 2024 15:51:30 GMT 1
I'll bow to your knowledge as you pay more attention than me, but we seemed to go through a spell of signing a few from London 'pretend' academies such as XYZ Academy? I also remember a lad signing who was released from Cheltenham. Edit - I can spot 6 on here xyzacademy.co.uk/players/A quick search shows that they list 6 town players: Aaron Rowe - he actually came through Orient's youth set up Mustapha Olagunju - did appear to start at XYZ Anthony Gregory - was actually at Arsenal from the age of 10 Andrew Ijiwole - is actually now at Peterborough, started at Man City, came to us, then left Micah Obiero - he actually came through Orient's youth set up Jordan Thomas - no record of him on the club's site Jordan Thomas was in our under 18s during the Premier League years, was our entry to The Guardian's next gen list for 2018. Got poached by Norwich shortly after but not sure if he made it as a pro |
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Post by Terriersmad on May 15, 2024 15:57:55 GMT 1
A quick search shows that they list 6 town players: Aaron Rowe - he actually came through Orient's youth set up Mustapha Olagunju - did appear to start at XYZ Anthony Gregory - was actually at Arsenal from the age of 10 Andrew Ijiwole - is actually now at Peterborough, started at Man City, came to us, then left Micah Obiero - he actually came through Orient's youth set up Jordan Thomas - no record of him on the club's site Jordan Thomas was in our under 18s during the Premier League years, was our entry to The Guardian's next gen list for 2018. Got poached by Norwich shortly after but not sure if he made it as a pro There you go. Not exactly had a stellar career to date. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2024 15:58:07 GMT 1
Striker whilst definitely needed wasn’t the glaring issue for me. I have never seen a town side assembled in a way that so many players cannot pass a ball to a teammate over 5 yards away. So many games this season I fear at what our pass completion was. Pearson Kasumu Matos Thomas Headley All lost the ball carelessly and continuously with very little quality yet formed the spine of our team. That for me is the most obvious reason we deservedly went down, we didn’t have enough technical quality for the division. I was gutted when Balker was injured because although we saw very little of him, I think he would have brought so much composure to our passing. I’ve highlighted before it was the second lowest in the league, which I’m not surprised at. We needed 1, or probably 2, players that could actually hold onto the ball and be able to make simple passes. For that reason I wouldn’t want Kasamu starting for us even in league one. Repeating myself again but Camara, Rudoni & Kasumu were the best midfield we have had in the past 2 seasons. A problem for many of the players is teammates not showing for the ball. When Nakayama was fit and with Headley playing in a wing/wingback role, and Rudoni in the middle, we actually built play on the left by pass and move. Spencer is capable as well if teammates give him options. The whole squad have been a shambles this last season though. We need to see how they are once Duff has them schooled in his way of playing. Fresh start for everyone who stays for me. |
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Post by bluebeard on May 15, 2024 16:11:16 GMT 1
Isn't Simpson still on our books i mean him and Hudlin up front next season would terrorize league one.
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Post by htafcokay on May 15, 2024 16:12:27 GMT 1
Isn't Simpson still on our books i mean him and Hudlin up front next season would terrorize league one. I think you mean traumatise? |
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Post by terriers2000 on May 15, 2024 16:13:55 GMT 1
Isn't Simpson still on our books i mean him and Hudlin up front next season would terrorize league one. oh god |
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