bogart
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,879
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Post by bogart on May 26, 2024 12:19:52 GMT 1
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Post by Captainslapper on May 26, 2024 12:39:29 GMT 1
The game is very different now though. Not just that the ball is lighter and never coated in heavy mud but players just head the ball a lot less. Because the pitches were so bad you had to play football in the air. The ball would barely roll on the surface. So everyone headed it so much more than they do now. I’d be very surprised if the players from this century don’t suffer anything remotely like the amount of problems players from pre 1990s have. So you could argue the issue has already solved itself. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 26, 2024 13:02:33 GMT 1
The game is very different now though. Not just that the ball is lighter and never coated in heavy mud but players just head the ball a lot less. Because the pitches were so bad you had to play football in the air. The ball would barely roll on the surface. So everyone headed it so much more than they do now. I’d be very surprised if the players from this century don’t suffer anything remotely like the amount of problems players from pre 1990s have. So you could argue the issue has already solved itself. Isnt it about compo for those that played with the lumps of concrete.. The balls were significantly lighter when I started playing in teams in about 1966 or so.. We still headed it quite a bit.. |
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bogart
David Wagner Terrier
Posts: 2,879
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Post by bogart on May 26, 2024 14:05:45 GMT 1
I remember heading a few of the old leather jobs back in late 60s, no thank you was like getting hit with a frying pan. Luckily I was shite so gave up.
Not convinced about the lighter ball now thesis. As mentioned in the article the ball often travels a lot faster negating the lighter weight arguement.
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trotsky
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 664
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Post by trotsky on May 26, 2024 14:24:07 GMT 1
I remember heading a few of the old leather jobs back in late 60s, no thank you was like getting hit with a frying pan. Luckily I was shite so gave up. Not convinced about the lighter ball now thesis. As mentioned in the article the ball often travels a lot faster negating the lighter weight arguement.
We didn't manage to get the things in the air very often (as kids) but on the rare occasion when we did, it always seemed to be soaking wet with the lace undone, 'whipping' you across the eye/face as you headed it!
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Post by themanfromatlantis on May 26, 2024 16:12:50 GMT 1
I read that article this morning. Aside of the tax avoidance thing… 🤔 I do think that we need to be careful about how you go about making things safer, to the detriment of the game itself.
How would you deal with this in Rugby for instance?
I know they try and do things like this at grass roots which I do think is a good thing, young heads must be more susceptible to damage you’d have thought.
But it is a difficult balance.
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Post by Oblong of Dreams on May 26, 2024 17:27:55 GMT 1
Phil Billing has said he avoids heading because of the risks. Wonder if that's why Hudlin is so poor in the air?
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Post by Arbie 1976. on May 26, 2024 19:40:15 GMT 1
The game is very different now though. Not just that the ball is lighter and never coated in heavy mud but players just head the ball a lot less. Because the pitches were so bad you had to play football in the air. The ball would barely roll on the surface. So everyone headed it so much more than they do now. I’d be very surprised if the players from this century don’t suffer anything remotely like the amount of problems players from pre 1990s have. So you could argue the issue has already solved itself. With all the new technologies on pitches there seems to be more injuries to knees like ACL's etc. |
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Post by leroy212 on May 26, 2024 20:02:41 GMT 1
Remember getting a ball to the face 30 years ago, wernt kicked that hard but made the nose bleed and had a god awful headache for days after
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Post by haskins on May 26, 2024 20:59:32 GMT 1
I remember watching Dave Sutton head the ball about ten times every match, you always knew if the opponent’s keeper booted it then Dave would pop up and clear it about thirty yards back. If he missed it Keith Hanvey wouldn’t. Even then I wondered what the hell that was doing to their brains. I sincerely hope that they never suffer like Bill Gates in the article did.
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Post by richhtfc on May 26, 2024 21:08:34 GMT 1
Hard for this not to come across as uncaring but I read that article, and was pretty jealous of the life he had. The bloke looked to have lived a fantastically full and interesting life. His demise came at a time when it would be expected to most people of his background. I suppose you could argue he could’ve been around for another 10 years or so, but that’s holding things to a very modern standard. |
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Post by Fish & Chips on May 26, 2024 22:11:01 GMT 1
Everything is dangerous in life, however safe you think you’re taking things, it has a 100% mortality rate.
The key thing is to enjoy our lives and playing and watching football is one of the fun things we do.
It’ll end whenever and however it ends. Head the ball if you want to, or don’t if you prefer not to, but don’t worry yer sen to an early grave about such things.
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Post by Orinoco on May 26, 2024 23:37:49 GMT 1
Remember Kindon during the warm up whacking a ball into the cowshed, it flew just past me and hit a lad full on in the face, I turned round and it knocked the lad flying!!, he was on the pitch the next home match and fully kitted out!!, anyone on the forum see this or is the lad the ball hit post on here?!!.
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Post by htafcokay on May 26, 2024 23:50:08 GMT 1
There's many former Town players suffering with dementia, some have gone public, many haven't.
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Post by King Neil on May 27, 2024 0:16:42 GMT 1
I remember a game at hartlepool in the 90,s
Town players were having a pre-match kick about and we were stood on an open terrace
Darren bullock whacked the ball and it came flying into the terrace and hit this young lad in head and it decked him..everyone was laughing at the time,but the lad got back up and seemed ok
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Post by Boaty McBoatface on May 27, 2024 8:09:41 GMT 1
A very strange thing happened to me once when I was about 13 with a friend at a match. We were stood behind the goal and I was reading the programme before the match started, while the players were warming up in front of us.
Suddenly everyone around me was laughing and crying out and it felt like something had happened to me but I wasn't sure and in fact, I just carried on reading my programme. My mate grabbed me and told me that I'd just been hit by one of the balls hitting my forehead and bouncing off. I know it sounds totally unbelievable but everyone around us was saying the same thing and asking if I was alright. Probably the strangest thing that's ever happened to me.
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on May 27, 2024 8:17:06 GMT 1
A very strange thing happened to me once when I was about 13 with a friend at a match. We were stood behind the goal and I was reading the programme before the match started, while the players were warming up in front of us. Suddenly everyone around me was laughing and crying out and it felt like something had happened to me but I wasn't sure and in fact, I just carried on reading my programme. My mate grabbed me and told me that I'd just been hit by one of the balls hitting my forehead and bouncing off. I know it sounds totally unbelievable but everyone around us was saying the same thing and asking if I was alright. Probably the strangest thing that's ever happened to me. And you didn't realise? |
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Post by turbo2 on May 27, 2024 9:00:33 GMT 1
The game is very different now though. Not just that the ball is lighter and never coated in heavy mud but players just head the ball a lot less. Because the pitches were so bad you had to play football in the air. The ball would barely roll on the surface. So everyone headed it so much more than they do now. I’d be very surprised if the players from this century don’t suffer anything remotely like the amount of problems players from pre 1990s have. So you could argue the issue has already solved itself. Isnt it about compo for those that played with the lumps of concrete.. The balls were significantly lighter when I started playing in teams in about 1966 or so.. We still headed it quite a bit.. Don’t think the ball weight has ever changed at 16oz?? It was the material absorbs water less and less over time. My issue with this is they’re talking about professional athletes getting compo but miles more people paid to play the same game. |
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Post by Boaty McBoatface on May 27, 2024 9:02:55 GMT 1
As strange as it sounds, I didn't. In fact, if no one had said anything, I'd never have known as I just kept on reading my programme. |
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Post by Captainslapper on May 27, 2024 9:16:14 GMT 1
Isnt it about compo for those that played with the lumps of concrete.. The balls were significantly lighter when I started playing in teams in about 1966 or so.. We still headed it quite a bit.. Don’t think the ball weight has ever changed at 16oz?? It was the material absorbs water less and less over time. My issue with this is they’re talking about professional athletes getting compo but miles more people paid to play the same game. Whenever you see photos of training in the old days, the balls they use in training ( so are going to head far more than in actual matches ) are pretty worn down , with whatever coating they put on the leather flaking away. That must make them much more water absorbent and heavier than a match ball in a game. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on May 27, 2024 10:03:44 GMT 1
Don’t think the ball weight has ever changed at 16oz?? It was the material absorbs water less and less over time. My issue with this is they’re talking about professional athletes getting compo but miles more people paid to play the same game. Whenever you see photos of training in the old days, the balls they use in training ( so are going to head far more than 6in actual matches ) are pretty worn down , with whatever coating they put on the leather flaking away. That must make them much more water absorbent and heavier than a match ball in a game. I remember having an old brown leather ball and having to dubbing it on a regular basis along with my boots. A white ball shortly after didnt require any maintenance. The coating did however flake off due to the ball being kicked at walls and used on concrete etc. It was definitely though a huge upgrade and far easier to kick and head. Todays balls feel as light as a feather.. |
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man (Destabiliser) on May 27, 2024 10:50:41 GMT 1
I coach under 14s. In a 70 minute match (345 each way) with a Size 4 ball I'd say there are about 3 or 4 headers on average. Some games pass without a header. We don't even practice them specifically in training,
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Post by Captainslapper on May 27, 2024 11:20:39 GMT 1
I coach under 14s. In a 70 minute match (345 each way) with a Size 4 ball I'd say there are about 3 or 4 headers on average. Some games pass without a header. We don't even practice them specifically in training, Yeah even at that junior level the way the game is played has changed so much. When I played for battyeford as a kid on the pitches down by John Cottons, the only time a game was postponed was if it was frozen solid or the pitch was literally under water. So quite early in the season the pitches would have multiple games on them when it was really soft ground and would be a quagmire that would never recover until the following summer. You could not pass the ball on the floor unless it was out towards the wing, so the ball spent most of its time being lumped up in the air..obviously leading to a lot of heading. Now if its anything like soft they call the game off so even in the middle of winter the pitch is still in really good nick. Whats happened to a lot of these old players from the last century is terrible but like a lot of industrial injuries ( which I guess it counts as ) its probably due to ignorance of the time. But suggestions of altering the way the game is played now, really is shutting the barn door after the horse has sodded off up the road. The problem has largely resolved itself. The PFA could be doing a hell of a lot more to support them. many years ago I heard about Tommy Cavanagh's struggles with dementia ..or more his families struggles to take care of him financially and the total lack of help they were getting from the PFA. ( Cavanagh played for Town in the 1950s and went on to be Tommy Docherty's number 2 at Man Utd in the 70s ) I emailed Gordon Taylor at the PFA about this, prompted because at the time there was a big story about his personal salary ( which was enormous at about £3m a year ) and because the PFA had just spent about £10m on a LS Lowry painting to hang on his office wall! Basically asking how they can justify that whilst doing bugger all for someone like Cavanagh and his family. Taylor even emailed me back with some highly defensive bullshit about how much the were investing in research on the links to dementia and heading the ball...I emailed back and pointed out they were investing a small fraction of the amount they were spending on his personal salary...didnt get a reply to that! At best a token gesture from the nest feathering players union, even though many of those effected were players from Taylors own era. If you've ever heard Nobby Stiles son talk about the PFA then you realise how the families of those ex players effected regard the union as no better than something they'd wipe off their shoe. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 27, 2024 11:37:48 GMT 1
I remember Phil Senior warming up at Scunthorpe away in 2003 and he hit an old bloke square on the head with a stray ball.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,604
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Post by goodbet on May 27, 2024 12:31:05 GMT 1
Isnt it about compo for those that played with the lumps of concrete.. The balls were significantly lighter when I started playing in teams in about 1966 or so.. We still headed it quite a bit.. Don’t think the ball weight has ever changed at 16oz?? It was the material absorbs water less and less over time. My issue with this is they’re talking about professional athletes getting compo but miles more people paid to play the same game. Back in 1970/71 I went on a tour of Mitre sports in Huddersfield, then located around Viaduct St. They were showing us a new design of football that they had designed and making on site and it was made of some composite material and they said that it was so much better than the leather balls that were available at that time i.e. consistent, roundness, durability and did not absorb water. I can only assume that they have only got better since then. |
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