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Post by runner76 on May 31, 2024 11:44:40 GMT 1
Are there any / many managers who actually never win anything? Not in terms of games, but in terms of actual 'things'
A Cup, a title, promotion
Are there many who never win any of the above and are they 'successful' if they never do?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2024 11:48:51 GMT 1
Mauricio Pochettino is a recent example that springs to mind.
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Post by runner76 on May 31, 2024 11:50:06 GMT 1
Mauricio Pochettino is a recent example that springs to mind. surely he must have won something at some stage in his career....? |
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Post by m62terrier on May 31, 2024 11:51:34 GMT 1
Pochettino won the French League and Cup so not sure he falls into the criteria outlined.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2024 11:52:19 GMT 1
Mauricio Pochettino is a recent example that springs to mind. surely he must have won something at some stage in his career....? He won a french league and cup in 1 and a half years of managing PSG, but in one of those he lost out to Lille, which is frankly embarrassing. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2024 11:53:21 GMT 1
Pochettino won the French League and Cup so not sure he falls into the criteria outlined. Yeah, misread the question, thought it was talking about successful managers who never usually win trophies rather than a manager who has actually NEVER won a trophy, my bad. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 31, 2024 11:57:44 GMT 1
Carlos Corberan.
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Post by waggers on May 31, 2024 11:58:48 GMT 1
Are there any / many managers who actually never win anything? Not in terms of games, but in terms of actual 'things' A Cup, a title, promotion Are there many who never win any of the above and are they 'successful' if they never do? Fozza. |
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Post by Essex Terrier on May 31, 2024 12:00:44 GMT 1
Are there any / many managers who actually never win anything? Not in terms of games, but in terms of actual 'things' A Cup, a title, promotion Are there many who never win any of the above and are they 'successful' if they never do? . ...yet! |
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Post by 50pmillionaire on May 31, 2024 12:01:21 GMT 1
Lee Clark !
Statistically, based on win%, Town's most successful manager since the 1940's, but never won owt apart from a few MOTM.
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Post by dugnet on May 31, 2024 12:32:12 GMT 1
Sean Dyche? Can't argue with the job he does at the highest level in the country but hasn't achieved any major success at that level either.
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Post by canuckterrier99 on May 31, 2024 12:39:04 GMT 1
Lee Clark ! Statistically, based on win%, Town's most successful manager since the 1940's, but never won owt apart from a few MOTM. According to Wikipedia, his Kilmarnock side won the Scottish Premiership Play-offs in 2015/16. What that doesn't immediately make clear is that Kilmarnock were an existing Premier League side, playing-off against a Championship side (Falkirk) to avoid relegation. Because I'm bored, I had a look for who is the highest placed manager in the top-rated leagues who hasn't won anything (excluding non-league, development or youth or anything won as Assistant or Coach). I also excluded anyone with less than 2 full seasons experience as Head Coach. Everyone in the Premier League has won something, although Sean Dyche and (now) Kieran McKenna only have promotions in second-place to their name. Moving to the Bundesliga we find Pellegrino Matarazzo (Hoffenheim) followed by Ole Werner (1.FC Koln) who appear to have won "nothing," though time is very much on their side to change that. |
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Post by runner76 on May 31, 2024 12:48:05 GMT 1
Sean Dyche? Can't argue with the job he does at the highest level in the country but hasn't achieved any major success at that level either. Surely he’s gained promotion?…. |
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Post by htafcokay on May 31, 2024 12:49:39 GMT 1
Sean Dyche? Can't argue with the job he does at the highest level in the country but hasn't achieved any major success at that level either. Surely he’s gained promotion?…. He's won a Second Division title. Same as "one of the world's greatest ever managers" Marcelo Bielsa. |
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Post by shawsie on May 31, 2024 13:30:19 GMT 1
Surely he’s gained promotion?…. He's won a Second Division title. Same as "one of the world's greatest ever managers" Marcelo Bielsa. Yup - the myth manager!!! Farke got more points than Bielsa did yet most chesties think hes awful and its time to go. Bielsa annointed like some world class trophy amassed demi-god!!! Mind you - compared with Buzz, AB and the Erm-inator they have been blessed!!! |
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Post by htafcokay on May 31, 2024 13:33:26 GMT 1
He's won a Second Division title. Same as "one of the world's greatest ever managers" Marcelo Bielsa. Yup - the myth manager!!! Farke got more points than Bielsa did yet most chesties think hes awful and its time to go. Bielsa annointed like some world class trophy amassed demi-god!!! Mind you - compared with Buzz, AB and the Erm-inator they have been blessed!!! Leeds played Man City in the Premier League, and I kid you not, Sky Sports put something out saying, "two of the world's greatest ever managers go head-to-head". I despair. |
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Post by mosher on May 31, 2024 13:52:12 GMT 1
Yup - the myth manager!!! Farke got more points than Bielsa did yet most chesties think hes awful and its time to go. Bielsa annointed like some world class trophy amassed demi-god!!! Mind you - compared with Buzz, AB and the Erm-inator they have been blessed!!! Leeds played Man City in the Premier League, and I kid you not, Sky Sports put something out saying, "two of the world's greatest ever managers go head-to-head". I despair. Was that the one where they lost 7-0? If so and it wasn't under King Jesse, great "head-to-head" that one was, showed his genius-like managerial ability that day didn't he  ** If it was under Jesse then ignore me  |
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Post by canuckterrier99 on May 31, 2024 14:29:36 GMT 1
Leeds played Man City in the Premier League, and I kid you not, Sky Sports put something out saying, "two of the world's greatest ever managers go head-to-head". I despair. Was that the one where they lost 7-0? If so and it wasn't under King Jesse, great "head-to-head" that one was, showed his genius-like managerial ability that day didn't he ** If it was under Jesse then ignore me You're correct, it was a Marcello Masterclass. As was the 0-6 to Liverpool and the 0-4 to Spurs! In the remaining three months under Jesse Marsch they only won one less game than they had under Bielsa in the season up to his sacking |
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Post by Kirchenglocken on May 31, 2024 14:33:02 GMT 1
Success is achieving something, so staying in a league must also count and even mid table finishes where other objectives have been met, for example to bring academy players through and manage through financial difficulty.
I thought of Pochettino during his time at Spurs and Allerdyce in most of his Premier League jobs. It seems as though many have either won promotions earlier in their careers or have won a cup somewhere else. Struggled to find many in the Premier League over recent years, looked to League one instead.. Russell Slade? Looks like he never won anything but I thought he did a good job at Orient.
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Post by royrace on May 31, 2024 14:45:26 GMT 1
He's won a Second Division title. Same as "one of the world's greatest ever managers" Marcelo Bielsa. Yup - the myth manager!!! Farke got more points than Bielsa did yet most chesties think hes awful and its time to go. Bielsa annointed like some world class trophy amassed demi-god!!! Mind you - compared with Buzz, AB and the Erm-inator they have been blessed!!! To be fair the squad bielsa had was probably worth a fifth of their current one! The football they played was brilliant too, certainly in the champ anyway. Don't like to admit it but it's true! |
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Post by mosher on May 31, 2024 14:50:54 GMT 1
Yup - the myth manager!!! Farke got more points than Bielsa did yet most chesties think hes awful and its time to go. Bielsa annointed like some world class trophy amassed demi-god!!! Mind you - compared with Buzz, AB and the Erm-inator they have been blessed!!! The football they played was brilliant too, certainly in the champ anyway. Don't like to admit it but it's true! In fees maybe, but their wage bill was astronomical and it was still one of the most expensively-assembled squads in the division that year. Don't believe the myth that Bielsa built it on a shoestring like some reports around that time. Good football yes, but for the amount they spent assembling the squad it should have been. |
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Post by iffyslostlens on May 31, 2024 15:01:10 GMT 1
Success is relative to what is expected, Moyes was a succes at Everton and west ham but a disaster at man u
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Post by rockwall on May 31, 2024 15:30:40 GMT 1
Sean Dyche? Can't argue with the job he does at the highest level in the country but hasn't achieved any major success at that level either. Didn't he win the championship with Burnley in 2016? |
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Post by King Neil on May 31, 2024 16:31:32 GMT 1
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Post by sabailand on May 31, 2024 16:39:39 GMT 1
How do you measure success, some managers do wonders with little cash available and a limited squad, whereas some managers have money thrown at them but still do nothing.
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ldotm
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Post by ldotm on May 31, 2024 16:40:32 GMT 1
Yup - the myth manager!!! Farke got more points than Bielsa did yet most chesties think hes awful and its time to go. Bielsa annointed like some world class trophy amassed demi-god!!! Mind you - compared with Buzz, AB and the Erm-inator they have been blessed!!! To be fair the squad bielsa had was probably worth a fifth of their current one! The football they played was brilliant too, certainly in the champ anyway. Don't like to admit it but it's true! Got to be incredibly biased to not think Bielsa is a very good coach. |
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Post by rockwall on May 31, 2024 18:19:30 GMT 1
To be fair the squad bielsa had was probably worth a fifth of their current one! The football they played was brilliant too, certainly in the champ anyway. Don't like to admit it but it's true! Got to be incredibly biased to not think Bielsa is a very good coach. Agree. Shame he was at Leeds as they were really strong and played some decent stuff under him. |
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Post by shawsie on May 31, 2024 19:42:41 GMT 1
To be fair the squad bielsa had was probably worth a fifth of their current one! The football they played was brilliant too, certainly in the champ anyway. Don't like to admit it but it's true! Got to be incredibly biased to not think Bielsa is a very good coach. Dont disagree - clearly a very talented coach. But he aint a serial trophy winner a la pep, jose, sir alex, ancelotti etc. V good at bringing small name players together but struggles with big egos according to some south american pundits. |
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Post by Floyds on Jun 1, 2024 7:15:05 GMT 1
Are there any / many managers who actually never win anything? Not in terms of games, but in terms of actual 'things' A Cup, a title, promotion Are there many who never win any of the above and are they 'successful' if they never do? We can barely find a manager who wins more than one game in four or five, let alone winning a cup, title or promotion 😂👌 |
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