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Post by waggers on Jun 3, 2024 11:38:02 GMT 1
I will be alone in this view but I have reservations about Town introducing a scheme to train young children from the age of eight to be professional footballers. The whole tone of the conversation seems to be about what benefit Town will derive from the scheme, much of it expressed in financial terms. I can see nothing about what benefits the 99% of children embarking on this scheme, who will fail in their ambition to play in the Premier League, get out of it. These children are likely to be talented athletes and games players. From the age of eight they will be restricted in what games they play and what wider activities they can take part in. This narrows their world, just at the time when they should be broadening their experience. Town are instead asking young children to identify themselves as footballers, leading eventually to the overwhelming majority being told ‘No actually you are not a footballer, now go and clear off’. I don’t know personally what this would do to a ten year old’s self-esteem, but I can imagine. There are lots of moral ambiguities here-you have a brilliant nine year old goalkeeper but for them to develop you have to keep on and encourage ten other children each week, who you know have no chance of making the grade. You will also get parents invested in the unrealistic dream of their child ‘making it’ and again the inevitable disillusionment. I am surprised that the immoral, brutal and cut-throat world of professional football is allowed to have any direct contact with children under 16. Besides the potential of the Barry Bennell type characters, I can think of few other environments where children are set up to fail to the same extent. I think by not recruiting footballers until they have reached the age of 16 Town have inadvertently arrived at a defensible moral position. I just wish the focus in this country could be on football for children and not children for football. I worked with a lad who didn't make it. He was part of the Leeds youth team that won the FA Youth Cup and beat the class on 92. He didn't get pro terms that summer and left the pro game. Instead he got a sports scholarship at a University in the US and lived like a minor celeb on campus for three years I also knew a Man Utd youth team coach and the school kids there travelled all over the world playing games My older brother rejected YTS forms from two pro clubs back in 80's as he knew he wasn't good enough to make it in the pro game so choose to go to Uni instead. He has some great football stories and still has had a very good business career with zero regrets It's not as black and white. I agree the vast majority don't make it but they can have an amazing ride along the one - one very few get to experience It can go both ways, it often depends on at what age you are released. I was released by Town at 15 and to be honest was actually relieved. This was in the mid 00's and the culture at academies was a lot harsher, they treated you like adults from the age of 9. Only 1 lad out of every player recruited through my age group from 1998 became a pro footballer, the lads released at 16 years or older didn't have life plans if they were released. So when they were at 16, 17 and 18 they had nothing. Top level academies now do a lot more to make sure young lads released are educated properly and have plans if they don't make it, which even at top top clubs is the vast majority of them. These days they will be at training 3 times a week and play on a weekend so it really does take over a young lads life. |
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Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Jun 3, 2024 11:45:41 GMT 1
Our eldest grandson will not be 7 until October but he’s already signed (yes, honestly) his first football contract with Chipstead FC. He has to be officially registered with the Surrey FA even at his age.
Surrey’s HQ is situated at Dorking Wanderers ground and he’s playing there next Saturday.
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Jun 3, 2024 13:23:25 GMT 1
Should never have cut back the academy in the first place, well done Town. It's good to see it back but I have to say I agreed with the decision at the time. The academy simply hadn't/wasn't creating enough of a return on the money required to run it, and as others have pointed out, the EPPP meant that any decent talent we did produce could be snatched by bigger clubs for a fraction of their true value. |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Jun 3, 2024 14:44:25 GMT 1
I worked with a lad who didn't make it. He was part of the Leeds youth team that won the FA Youth Cup and beat the class on 92. He didn't get pro terms that summer and left the pro game. Instead he got a sports scholarship at a University in the US and lived like a minor celeb on campus for three years I also knew a Man Utd youth team coach and the school kids there travelled all over the world playing games My older brother rejected YTS forms from two pro clubs back in 80's as he knew he wasn't good enough to make it in the pro game so choose to go to Uni instead. He has some great football stories and still has had a very good business career with zero regrets It's not as black and white. I agree the vast majority don't make it but they can have an amazing ride along the one - one very few get to experience It can go both ways, it often depends on at what age you are released. I was released by Town at 15 and to be honest was actually relieved. This was in the mid 00's and the culture at academies was a lot harsher, they treated you like adults from the age of 9. Only 1 lad out of every player recruited through my age group from 1998 became a pro footballer, the lads released at 16 years or older didn't have life plans if they were released. So when they were at 16, 17 and 18 they had nothing. Top level academies now do a lot more to make sure young lads released are educated properly and have plans if they don't make it, which even at too top clubs is the vast majority of them. These days they will be at training 3 times a week and play on a weekend so it really does take over a young lads life. A mate of mine, same junior and school teams, was picked up by town at about 10 to 16 when he was let go before signing scholarship forms. It hit him like a freight train, spent a bit of time inside before settling down. I’d guess the disappointment never left him in some ways. |
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ben1987
Mental Health Support Group
Posts: 7,241
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Post by ben1987 on Jun 3, 2024 15:04:51 GMT 1
Should never have cut back the academy in the first place, well done Town. It's good to see it back but I have to say I agreed with the decision at the time. The academy simply hadn't/wasn't creating enough of a return on the money required to run it, and as others have pointed out, the EPPP meant that any decent talent we did produce could be snatched by bigger clubs for a fraction of their true value. Maybe this time it will be run a bit better and with a bit more investment? |
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Post by terrier86 on Jun 3, 2024 17:24:07 GMT 1
List of clubs under category 1 and 2 that I have found:
Category 1
Arsenal
Aston Villa
Blackburn
Burnley
Brighton
Chelsea
C. Palace
Derby
Everton
Fulham
Leeds
Leicester
Liverpool
Man City
Man Utd
Middlesborough
Newcastle
Norwich
Nottingham.F
Reading
Southampton
Stoke
Sunderland
Tottenham
West Ham
West Brom
Wolves
Category 2
Bournemouth
Barnsley
Birmingham
Bristol C
Cardiff
Charlton
Colchester
Coventry
Crewe
Fleetwood
Hull
Ipswich
Millwall
Peterborough
QPR
Sheff Utd
Sheff Weds
Swansea
Watford
Wigan
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Post by giveusanaitch on Jun 3, 2024 19:10:33 GMT 1
I will be alone in this view but I have reservations about Town introducing a scheme to train young children from the age of eight to be professional footballers. The whole tone of the conversation seems to be about what benefit Town will derive from the scheme, much of it expressed in financial terms. I can see nothing about what benefits the 99% of children embarking on this scheme, who will fail in their ambition to play in the Premier League, get out of it. These children are likely to be talented athletes and games players. From the age of eight they will be restricted in what games they play and what wider activities they can take part in. This narrows their world, just at the time when they should be broadening their experience. Town are instead asking young children to identify themselves as footballers, leading eventually to the overwhelming majority being told ‘No actually you are not a footballer, now go and clear off’. I don’t know personally what this would do to a ten year old’s self-esteem, but I can imagine. There are lots of moral ambiguities here-you have a brilliant nine year old goalkeeper but for them to develop you have to keep on and encourage ten other children each week, who you know have no chance of making the grade. You will also get parents invested in the unrealistic dream of their child ‘making it’ and again the inevitable disillusionment. I am surprised that the immoral, brutal and cut-throat world of professional football is allowed to have any direct contact with children under 16. Besides the potential of the Barry Bennell type characters, I can think of few other environments where children are set up to fail to the same extent. I think by not recruiting footballers until they have reached the age of 16 Town have inadvertently arrived at a defensible moral position. I just wish the focus in this country could be on football for children and not children for football. Certainly not alone in this. Having heard a story from Leigh Bromby a few years ago about how the academy he was at actively recruited a number of children purely based on their individual characteristics to help the 1 player they thought that could make it into being a professional footballer. An entire team of kids they knew had no chance but had attributes that could push this kid in different aspects in training . The whole professional academy side of football has gone mad. But no one seems too bothered about the child trafficking that's really going on...... |
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Jun 4, 2024 7:30:29 GMT 1
It's good to see it back but I have to say I agreed with the decision at the time. The academy simply hadn't/wasn't creating enough of a return on the money required to run it, and as others have pointed out, the EPPP meant that any decent talent we did produce could be snatched by bigger clubs for a fraction of their true value. Maybe this time it will be run a bit better and with a bit more investment? Fingers crossed! |
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Post by rothwellterrier on Jun 25, 2024 12:51:04 GMT 1
I see the other out of the box thinking club, Brentford have also back tracked to having an academy (apologies if it’s been mentioned before).
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Jun 25, 2024 14:08:13 GMT 1
I see the other out of the box thinking club, Brentford have also back tracked to having an academy (apologies if it’s been mentioned before). Not quite back tracked - the PL have literally given them no choice. Having an Academy at Cat 2 at least is now mandatory I believe for PL clubs. |
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Post by ritchie on Jun 25, 2024 14:12:09 GMT 1
It's good to see it back but I have to say I agreed with the decision at the time. The academy simply hadn't/wasn't creating enough of a return on the money required to run it, and as others have pointed out, the EPPP meant that any decent talent we did produce could be snatched by bigger clubs for a fraction of their true value. Maybe this time it will be run a bit better and with a bit more investment? It will - i'm confident of that. |
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Post by twyford on Jun 25, 2024 14:26:33 GMT 1
I see the other out of the box thinking club, Brentford have also back tracked to having an academy (apologies if it’s been mentioned before). I know some were disappointed that our upgrade was only to Cat 3 and not higher but if PL Brentford are the first club to achieve a 2 category improvement (the minimum needed to comply with PL requirements) it's probably not surprising that we were only awarded a one category improvement. That's not small club mentality but a realistic assessment of how the governing body is going to approach such matters. |
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Post by Terriersmad on Jun 25, 2024 14:31:20 GMT 1
I see the other out of the box thinking club, Brentford have also back tracked to having an academy (apologies if it’s been mentioned before). I know some were disappointed that our upgrade was only to Cat 3 and not higher but if PL Brentford are the first club to achieve a 2 category improvement (the minimum needed to comply with PL requirements) it's probably not surprising that we were only awarded a one category improvement. That's not small club mentality but a realistic assessment of how the governing body is going to approach such matters. The only reason they've gone up two categories is because they're in the Premier League and have been fast-tracked because of the Premier League's own rules. By the framework of the EPPP, they shouldn't have been allowed to step up two categories at once as category 2 requires a track record of coaching at that level! |
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Post by twyford on Jun 25, 2024 14:38:59 GMT 1
I know some were disappointed that our upgrade was only to Cat 3 and not higher but if PL Brentford are the first club to achieve a 2 category improvement (the minimum needed to comply with PL requirements) it's probably not surprising that we were only awarded a one category improvement. That's not small club mentality but a realistic assessment of how the governing body is going to approach such matters. The only reason they've gone up two categories is because they're in the Premier League and have been fast-tracked because of the Premier League's own rules. By the framework of the EPPP, they shouldn't have been allowed to step up two categories at once as category 2 requires a track record of coaching at that level! Exactly my point - no matter how much money Nagle decided to allocate to the project it was unrealistic to expect more than the new Cat 3 status albeit with potential for subsequent improvements. |
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Post by mosher on Jun 25, 2024 14:57:17 GMT 1
I see the other out of the box thinking club, Brentford have also back tracked to having an academy (apologies if it’s been mentioned before). but if PL Brentford are the first club to achieve a 2 category improvement (the minimum needed to comply with PL requirements) it's probably not surprising that we were only awarded a one category improvement. That's not small club mentality but a realistic assessment of how the governing body is going to approach such matters. Some of us also tried to explain that we can't just go straight to a Cat 2 or 1 and we have to do it stage by stage. KN said as much in one of the diaries and it makes sense. Not just because of FL/FA rules; we'd also be trying to attract too many kids at once to get it back up and running. Even as Cat C we're playing catch-up to many clubs around us in terms of getting bodies through the door for each age group. |
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incognito
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,513
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Post by incognito on Jun 25, 2024 15:32:51 GMT 1
The PL requirement is actually only Category Three from 2024/25 (or within two years of getting promoted). Brentford have pushed the boat out a bit so their U18s go straight into the Professional Development League.
Going from Cat 3 to Cat 2 isn't that dramatic a step: The main additional infrastructure requirement is a dedicated 60x40 yard indoor surface (the dome in the background, above), plus a couple of extra classrooms. I would be surprised if Town didn't already fulfil the overwhelming majority of Cat 2 requirements in terms of academy-dedicated coaching and sports science staff.
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,604
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Post by goodbet on Jun 25, 2024 18:41:44 GMT 1
The PL requirement is actually only Category Three from 2024/25 (or within two years of getting promoted). Brentford have pushed the boat out a bit so their U18s go straight into the Professional Development League. Going from Cat 3 to Cat 2 isn't that dramatic a step: The main additional infrastructure requirement is a dedicated 60x40 yard indoor surface (the dome in the background, above), plus a couple of extra classrooms. I would be surprised if Town didn't already fulfil the overwhelming majority of Cat 2 requirements in terms of academy-dedicated coaching and sports science staff. I think that was before we went in to save any money we could mode under Dean. |
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