Academy is now Cat 3

[Dan]

Good work all involved in this. Hopefully we see more local players breaking through into the first team in the years to come...

www.htafc.com/news/2024/may/academy-granted-category-three-status

[runner76]

Great news.....why did we ever cut back on the Academy? Purely costs I guess?

[goodbet]

May 31, 2024 14:46:44 GMT 1 runner76 said:

Great news.....why did we ever cut back on the Academy? Purely costs I guess?

It has been our mantra since the Premier League.

[griffa]

May 31, 2024 14:46:44 GMT 1 runner76 said:

Great news.....why did we ever cut back on the Academy? Purely costs I guess?

Dean Hoyle decided to follow the Brentford template, that's where the changes came from, great news about the HTAFC Academy Cat 3 status - UTT.

[Million Dollar Babies]

May 31, 2024 14:46:44 GMT 1 runner76 said:

Great news.....why did we ever cut back on the Academy? Purely costs I guess?

Dean said the cost outweighed the benefits. You lose your star products for peanuts

[Wingman]

Some miserable gets already on social media slapping the club down for it being a lower grade category than other clubs around us in the football league.

It’ll take time to rebuild the academy, it’s not rocket science.

The club just can’t win with some people can they?

[runner76]

In case, like me, you had no idea……:

In English football, academies are categorized into four main tiers based on the Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP) introduced by the Premier League. These categories are designed to ensure a structured development environment for young players. The categories are:

Category 1 (Elite)

Requirements: Highest standards of facilities, coaching, and education.
Funding: Highest level of funding and support from the Premier League.
Focus: Holistic development of players, including physical, technical, tactical, and psychological aspects.
Competitions: Participates in the Premier League 2, the Under-18 Premier League, and other elite youth competitions.

Category 2 (Advanced)

Requirements: High standards but slightly lower than Category 1.
Funding: Considerable funding, though less than Category 1.
Focus: Strong emphasis on development but with fewer resources compared to Category 1.
Competitions: Competes in the Professional Development League.

Category 3 (Intermediate)

Requirements: Moderate standards of facilities and coaching.
Funding: Moderate funding and resources.
Focus: Regional talent identification and development.
Competitions: Competes in the Youth Alliance Leagues.

Category 4 (Basic)

Requirements: Basic standards mainly focused on older age groups.
Funding: Minimal funding compared to other categories.
Focus: Primarily for players who have been released from other academies to continue their development.
Competitions: Often limited to older age groups and less competitive leagues.

These categories help ensure that young footballers receive the appropriate level of support and opportunities tailored to their potential and the resources available at their respective clubs.

[ben1987]

Should never have cut back the academy in the first place, well done Town.

[duncfost01]

What level was the academy before Dean changed it ?

A very positive step though and more building blocks and investment in place.

[Million Dollar Babies]

May 31, 2024 15:35:08 GMT 1 ben1987 said:

Should never have cut back the academy in the first place, well done Town.

I can see both sides of it. You've got to admit it is a piss take that a category 1 side can just come along and take our best 15 year old for pretty much nothing.

[mosher]

May 31, 2024 15:10:33 GMT 1 Wingman said:

Some miserable gets already on social media slapping the club down for it being a lower grade category than other clubs around us in the football league.

It’ll take time to rebuild the academy, it’s not rocket science.

The club just can’t win with some people can they?

Not just that, as KN stated in the last diary, they have to have EACH STAGE accepted/ratified by the authorities.

They're not allowed to go direct from no Academy to cat 1.

Or so I've heard through people that SHOULD know, whether they're mistaken or not I don't know.

[Dan]

May 31, 2024 16:00:07 GMT 1 duncfost01 said:

What level was the academy before Dean changed it ?

A very positive step though and more building blocks and investment in place.

It was Category 2, Dean downgraded it to Category 4.

[ldotm]

May 31, 2024 16:00:44 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

May 31, 2024 15:35:08 GMT 1 ben1987 said:

Should never have cut back the academy in the first place, well done Town.

I can see both sides of it. You've got to admit it is a piss take that a category 1 side can just come along and take our best 15 year old for pretty much nothing.

It’s a question of does the benefits outweigh the costs though? I think it definitely does. Hoyle suggested it costed £1-2m a year roughly, so you only need the odd gem to pay for that and more.

O’Brien for example came through the academy, and just missed the cut when we disbanded the academy, a few years younger and he’d have gone for nothing, instead of the fee we got for him.

I also know there were a load of the younger lads we got rid of go to the likes of City, Liverpool, United etc.

Sam Murray is training with the United first team now, really promising left back. His family were always keen for him to stay at Town as they are Town fans, but instead got nothing for him but could’ve been a very handsome fee.

[Colin the Caterpillar]

May 31, 2024 15:03:04 GMT 1 Million Dollar Babies said:

May 31, 2024 14:46:44 GMT 1 runner76 said:

Great news.....why did we ever cut back on the Academy? Purely costs I guess?

Dean said the cost outweighed the benefits. You lose your star products for peanuts

I seem to recall someone saying that we could only stop the best players being picked off by going to Cat 1 ourselves but the cost of doing that was more than we (Hoyle) could justify/were prepared to stump up. The cheaper alternative was what we ended up with

[detox]

So how does it work?

Do they all congregate at canalside

Are each team in a league playing competitive games, and if so which leagues?

Do the kids get educated too, at canalside?

Are their games played at canalside or dotted around the area?

Thanks

[dm]

Was the downgrading just a short-term thinking kind of cost-cutting measure? For years, the way Town has been run has been about developing players and selling for a profit to fund the club. By cutting back the academy, did that not just cut the potential source of funding (i.e. future players to sell).

I know that the elite could cherry-pick the best for next to nothing but is it worth less for that to happen than the amount you'd receive in compensation?

It just seems wrong to somebody with no experience of academies.

[kennyk2]

Booooo! Booooo! We should be at least playing the best academies in England. Why not Cat 1 status. Boooooo!

(Just for the miserable, luddite, Yorkshire gits! Booooo!).

Booooo!

[28901]

May 31, 2024 15:02:54 GMT 1 griffa said:

May 31, 2024 14:46:44 GMT 1 runner76 said:

Great news.....why did we ever cut back on the Academy? Purely costs I guess?

Dean Hoyle decided to follow the Brentford template, that's where the changes came from, great news about the HTAFC Academy Cat 3 status - UTT.

Shame he didn't follow any other aspect of the Brentford template.

[terriersyndrome]

In the diary I think Kev mentioned that he wanted to work our way up to cat 1. This is just step one to get the academy doors back open and build from there.

It takes time but I'm just lad we've got our academy back.

[Fish & Chips]

May 31, 2024 15:35:08 GMT 1 ben1987 said:

Should never have cut back the academy in the first place, well done Town.

Another tight-fisted, cost-cutting move from Hoyle, but he was OK with spaffing tens of millions on utterly crap players.

[leroy212]

You have to work upto cat 1. Certainly criteria you have to meet in each level. To get to cat 1 won't be cheap and will cost a tidy fee each year. But if that's what nagle is aiming for, fair play to him

[midge]

Jun 1, 2024 11:24:48 GMT 1 Fish & Chips said:

May 31, 2024 15:35:08 GMT 1 ben1987 said:

Should never have cut back the academy in the first place, well done Town.

Another tight-fisted, cost-cutting move from Hoyle, but he was OK with spaffing tens of millions on utterly crap players.

The point about this being a cost cutting move is actually a bit of a myth I'm afraid.

The monies were merely diverted into funding a different structure.

[Fish & Chips]

Jun 1, 2024 11:44:22 GMT 1 midge said:

Jun 1, 2024 11:24:48 GMT 1 Fish & Chips said:

Another tight-fisted, cost-cutting move from Hoyle, but he was OK with spaffing tens of millions on utterly crap players.

The point about this being a cost cutting move is actually a bit of a myth I'm afraid.

The monies were merely diverted into funding a different structure.

It’s not a myth at all. Wagner stated that only Billing was a notable product of the academy. Running a Category 2 academy can be £2-3 million a year.

[midge]

Jun 1, 2024 12:01:09 GMT 1 Fish & Chips said:

Jun 1, 2024 11:44:22 GMT 1 midge said:

The point about this being a cost cutting move is actually a bit of a myth I'm afraid.

The monies were merely diverted into funding a different structure.

It’s not a myth at all. Wagner stated that only Billing was a notable product of the academy. Running a Category 2 academy can be £2-3 million a year.

Not really sure what the Billing example proves in terms of your original cost cutting point? Cost/structure v output, yes perhaps.

When the new structure was set up, there were 3 teams. U17's, u19's and B team with all players in that structure being paid employees of the club.

There was the cost of funding players bought specifically to initially develop in the B team- Koroma, Thomas and Russell spring to mind.

Also the not insignificant cost of all the full time members of staff in the academy- coaches, physios., sports scientists, video analysts etc etc

In this case the category rating did not reflect the cost as if you did not run a 9s to 16's programme you could not be rated any higher than a cat 4.

[cyberman]

Doesnt matter - CAT 3 OR NOT - the chances of any of these players being in the first team in the future is miniscule. Made even smaller the higher up we go.
Sad to say but to succeed at the top end of of the Championship - Lower end of the PL you have to buy good players not bring them through the ranks for 10 years and hope they are going to be good enough.

[crux]

Jun 1, 2024 14:07:16 GMT 1 cyberman said:

Doesnt matter - CAT 3 OR NOT - the chances of any of these players being in the first team in the future is miniscule. Made even smaller the higher up we go.
Sad to say but to succeed at the top end of of the Championship - Lower end of the PL you have to buy good players not bring them through the ranks for 10 years and hope they are going to be good enough.

I believe the rules are changing, or have done so already. So that all PL teams have to run a Cat 1 Academy, so if the ambition is genuinely to be a top Championship/PL club then the Academy needs to built up again.

[HuddsTerrier]

I think time has shown this was another error DH made after we got to the PL

Yes it costs a lot but we got great fees (as in over a million) every two or three years; Stead (£1.2m), Smithies (£1.5m), Hunt (£2.0m) and LOB (£8.0m)

We also still had the option to get players like Billing (£15.0m) and Smith (£3.0m) in that old structure. So it wasn't one or the other

Add players like Windass, Holmes (Championship), Crooks (MLS) and lots more in the professional game. It created players who were good enough for the first team

Carl Rushworth another we had but released - name to look out for and on the fringes of the England team

It will take a decade to correct probably but you have to start again somewhere

[johnf]

I will be alone in this view but I have reservations about Town introducing a scheme to train young children from the age of eight to be professional footballers.
The whole tone of the conversation seems to be about what benefit Town will derive from the scheme, much of it expressed in financial terms. I can see nothing about what benefits the 99% of children embarking on this scheme, who will fail in their ambition to play in the Premier League, get out of it.
These children are likely to be talented athletes and games players. From the age of eight they will be restricted in what games they play and what wider activities they can take part in. This narrows their world, just at the time when they should be broadening their experience.
Town are instead asking young children to identify themselves as footballers, leading eventually to the overwhelming majority being told ‘No actually you are not a footballer, now go and clear off’. I don’t know personally what this would do to a ten year old’s self-esteem, but I can imagine.
There are lots of moral ambiguities here-you have a brilliant nine year old goalkeeper but for them to develop you have to keep on and encourage ten other children each week, who you know have no chance of making the grade. You will also get parents invested in the unrealistic dream of their child ‘making it’ and again the inevitable disillusionment.
I am surprised that the immoral, brutal and cut-throat world of professional football is allowed to have any direct contact with children under 16. Besides the potential of the Barry Bennell type characters, I can think of few other environments where children are set up to fail to the same extent.
I think by not recruiting footballers until they have reached the age of 16 Town have inadvertently arrived at a defensible moral position. I just wish the focus in this country could be on football for children and not children for football.

[terriersyndrome]

Jun 3, 2024 9:55:17 GMT 1 johnf said:

I will be alone in this view but I have reservations about Town introducing a scheme to train young children from the age of eight to be professional footballers.
The whole tone of the conversation seems to be about what benefit Town will derive from the scheme, much of it expressed in financial terms. I can see nothing about what benefits the 99% of children embarking on this scheme, who will fail in their ambition to play in the Premier League, get out of it.
These children are likely to be talented athletes and games players. From the age of eight they will be restricted in what games they play and what wider activities they can take part in. This narrows their world, just at the time when they should be broadening their experience.
Town are instead asking young children to identify themselves as footballers, leading eventually to the overwhelming majority being told ‘No actually you are not a footballer, now go and clear off’. I don’t know personally what this would do to a ten year old’s self-esteem, but I can imagine.
There are lots of moral ambiguities here-you have a brilliant nine year old goalkeeper but for them to develop you have to keep on and encourage ten other children each week, who you know have no chance of making the grade. You will also get parents invested in the unrealistic dream of their child ‘making it’ and again the inevitable disillusionment.
I am surprised that the immoral, brutal and cut-throat world of professional football is allowed to have any direct contact with children under 16. Besides the potential of the Barry Bennell type characters, I can think of few other environments where children are set up to fail to the same extent.
I think by not recruiting footballers until they have reached the age of 16 Town have inadvertently arrived at a defensible moral position. I just wish the focus in this country could be on football for children and not children for football.

Just like every other football academy in the world then?

[HuddsTerrier]

Jun 3, 2024 9:55:17 GMT 1 johnf said:

I will be alone in this view but I have reservations about Town introducing a scheme to train young children from the age of eight to be professional footballers.
The whole tone of the conversation seems to be about what benefit Town will derive from the scheme, much of it expressed in financial terms. I can see nothing about what benefits the 99% of children embarking on this scheme, who will fail in their ambition to play in the Premier League, get out of it.
These children are likely to be talented athletes and games players. From the age of eight they will be restricted in what games they play and what wider activities they can take part in. This narrows their world, just at the time when they should be broadening their experience.
Town are instead asking young children to identify themselves as footballers, leading eventually to the overwhelming majority being told ‘No actually you are not a footballer, now go and clear off’. I don’t know personally what this would do to a ten year old’s self-esteem, but I can imagine.
There are lots of moral ambiguities here-you have a brilliant nine year old goalkeeper but for them to develop you have to keep on and encourage ten other children each week, who you know have no chance of making the grade. You will also get parents invested in the unrealistic dream of their child ‘making it’ and again the inevitable disillusionment.
I am surprised that the immoral, brutal and cut-throat world of professional football is allowed to have any direct contact with children under 16. Besides the potential of the Barry Bennell type characters, I can think of few other environments where children are set up to fail to the same extent.
I think by not recruiting footballers until they have reached the age of 16 Town have inadvertently arrived at a defensible moral position. I just wish the focus in this country could be on football for children and not children for football.

I worked with a lad who didn't make it. He was part of the Leeds youth team that won the FA Youth Cup and beat the class on 92. He didn't get pro terms that summer and left the pro game. Instead he got a sports scholarship at a University in the US and lived like a minor celeb on campus for three years

I also knew a Man Utd youth team coach and the school kids there travelled all over the world playing games

My older brother rejected YTS forms from two pro clubs back in 80's as he knew he wasn't good enough to make it in the pro game so choose to go to Uni instead. He has some great football stories and still has had a very good business career with zero regrets

It's not as black and white. I agree the vast majority don't make it but they can have an amazing ride along the one - one very few get to experience