3-5-2

[dezzly]

Oct 10, 2024 9:56:36 GMT 1 dugnet said:

Oct 10, 2024 8:40:42 GMT 1 dezzly said:

Happy to be proved wrong and that with some tweaks the 3-5-2 can work for us.UTT

I am so happy to see him tweak things and the last two performances, irrespective of the weakness of the opposition, have looked much better. We don't look light in midfield and it has been helped by getting pace into the back three.

However, and I am being a pedant for no other reason that I can, is it a 3-5-2 or is it 3-4-1-2 or even 5-2-1-2?

Whatever it looks more solid and, carries threat and a big step forward on the Shrewsbury, Rotherham, Northampton, Blackpool and Reading games.

If the key personnel can stay fit (noting I would like to see Iorpenda integrated into the team more) and confidence builds the optimism created at Peterborough will return.

I will be delighted if that is the case because MD has carried himself very well in these past few weeks.

I suppose we should have expected a bumpy ride after so much decline. It will probably be more bumpy in the weeks and months to come but hopefully with more improved performances than not.

I think if we were to be ultra specific it’s now the 3-4-1-2 whereas before it was more 3-1-4-2.Minor changes but those changes in starting position have made all the difference…to performance level anyway.It just looked and felt better.
The wins early on I think nobody was really 100% sold as the performances didn’t quite look right.Making those little tweaks,and getting Brodie into some form so we can have two quicker wider centre halves has made a huge difference to performance levels.
Folk might point to beating Stevenage and Shrewsbury and the level of opposition of Barnsley but I’m pretty comfortable in saying how we went about things looked much more convincing in the Barnsley wins,and before the season you’d say they would be better than the other two teams mentioned.In actual fact they probably look on par with them.

[Deleted]

Oct 10, 2024 10:29:47 GMT 1 dezzly said:

Oct 10, 2024 9:56:36 GMT 1 dugnet said:

I am so happy to see him tweak things and the last two performances, irrespective of the weakness of the opposition, have looked much better. We don't look light in midfield and it has been helped by getting pace into the back three.

However, and I am being a pedant for no other reason that I can, is it a 3-5-2 or is it 3-4-1-2 or even 5-2-1-2?

Whatever it looks more solid and, carries threat and a big step forward on the Shrewsbury, Rotherham, Northampton, Blackpool and Reading games.

If the key personnel can stay fit (noting I would like to see Iorpenda integrated into the team more) and confidence builds the optimism created at Peterborough will return.

I will be delighted if that is the case because MD has carried himself very well in these past few weeks.

I suppose we should have expected a bumpy ride after so much decline. It will probably be more bumpy in the weeks and months to come but hopefully with more improved performances than not.

I think if we were to be ultra specific it’s now the 3-4-1-2 whereas before it was more 3-1-4-2.Minor changes but those changes in starting position have made all the difference…to performance level anyway.It just looked and felt better.
The wins early on I think nobody was really 100% sold as the performances didn’t quite look right.Making those little tweaks,and getting Brodie into some form so we can have two quicker wider centre halves has made a huge difference to performance levels.
Folk might point to beating Stevenage and Shrewsbury and the level of opposition of Barnsley but I’m pretty comfortable in saying how we went about things looked much more convincing in the Barnsley wins,and before the season you’d say they would be better than the other two teams mentioned.In actual fact they probably look on par with them.

Yeah, I agree, although I would say that in possession it is more of a 3-2-3-2 with the wing-backs pushed high.

I think what I would say is this formation allows the likes of Wiles/Evans to play with more freedom, drift wide and pull into both channels to receive the ball instead of being constricted to just the one, pulling their defensive midfield all across the park. This is where Bojan can come into play as he likes to drop deep and link up play, so often he will come into the space that has been vacated by Wiles pulling wide which then pulls their defence around as well, allowing us to get Marshall and the wing-backs in behind more.

I would also say that having two sitters not only allows us to play out from the back better, it also gives the wide centre-backs more license to push forward as we have seen with Spencer and on tuesday Pearson as they have more protection in front of their defence, therefore instead of pulling midfielders out to create wide overloads as we did in the 3-1-4-2 shape, we can use centre backs while still looking defensively solid. 

A really big improvement last two games, Barnsley were poor but they were a better side than the likes of Stevenage/Shrewsbury and these two wins were far more comfortable and convincing IMO

[dezzly]

Oct 10, 2024 10:50:29 GMT 1 @htafc1045 said:

Oct 10, 2024 10:29:47 GMT 1 dezzly said:

I think if we were to be ultra specific it’s now the 3-4-1-2 whereas before it was more 3-1-4-2.Minor changes but those changes in starting position have made all the difference…to performance level anyway.It just looked and felt better.
The wins early on I think nobody was really 100% sold as the performances didn’t quite look right.Making those little tweaks,and getting Brodie into some form so we can have two quicker wider centre halves has made a huge difference to performance levels.
Folk might point to beating Stevenage and Shrewsbury and the level of opposition of Barnsley but I’m pretty comfortable in saying how we went about things looked much more convincing in the Barnsley wins,and before the season you’d say they would be better than the other two teams mentioned.In actual fact they probably look on par with them.

Yeah, I agree, although I would say that in possession it is more of a 3-2-3-2 with the wing-backs pushed high.

I think what I would say is this formation allows the likes of Wiles/Evans to play with more freedom, drift wide and pull into both channels to receive the ball instead of being constricted to just the one, pulling their defensive midfield all across the park. This is where Bojan can come into play as he likes to drop deep and link up play, so often he will come into the space that has been vacated by Wiles pulling wide which then pulls their defence around as well, allowing us to get Marshall and the wing-backs in behind more.

I would also say that having two sitters not only allows us to play out from the back better, it also gives the wide centre-backs more license to push forward as we have seen with Spencer and on tuesday Pearson as they have more protection in front of their defence, therefore instead of pulling midfielders out to create wide overloads as we did in the 3-1-4-2 shape, we can use centre backs while still looking defensively solid. 

A really big improvement last two games, Barnsley were poor but they were a better side than the likes of Stevenage/Shrewsbury and these two wins were far more comfortable and convincing IMO

Spot on there.I mentioned the centre backs being able to step out yesterday also.
A small tweak that sees us more defensively structured and solid whilst also helping out attacking wise progressing the ball.
What I would say also and this is just me going a bit off on a tangent,is that should we get promoted and likely to be expected to have less of the ball in games,the way duff setup previously with the two higher midfielders and higher wing backs could suit as we’d be able to press really high and intensely on teams that will want to play out more due to the perceived higher quality of player they possess.That was duffs way of doing things at his previous clubs(with exception of Swansea)…I’m glad to see he’s worked out a way to be effective when we’re the ones dominating the ball possession.

[Richard1986]

Personally I love a good 3-5-2 and I am happy with the style of football Duff is trying to achieve.

The players need to be much more switched on though. Everyone knows we are going to try to tackle and press high. As a result pretty much every team we have come up against have been throwing themselves at the floor

The standard of refereeing and officiating in this league also seems really poor.

[terrier17]

I’m yet to be convinced by it imo. If the fullbacks are ‘off it’ the whole system falls apart and we have no one in the squad that can fill in for Sorensen and Miller, should they miss out with injury.

We are also very susceptible to long balls over the top, especially if the fulls backs are advanced with our slow defence. I think this formation needs centre half’s who have a bit of pace, but can also carry the ball out comfortably.

Happy to be proved wrong though, but I would prefer 4-2-3-1 any day of the week, with proper attacking wide players.

[Baby Ate My Eight Ball]

Oct 13, 2024 15:01:24 GMT 1 Richard1986 said:

Personally I love a good 3-5-2 and I am happy with the style of football Duff is trying to achieve.

The players need to be much more switched on though. Everyone knows we are going to try to tackle and press high. As a result pretty much every team we have come up against have been throwing themselves at the floor

The standard of refereeing and officiating in this league also seems really poor.

The refs seem far more likely to blow for free kicks for minimal contact than in the championship, ironically, where some refs would just let the game flow.

[runner76]

Not sure, but I do miss having wingers…..some of the exciting points at the weekend were with Miller doing the ‘wing’ job, but then with ineffective crosses…..

[Bubbles]

Nov 11, 2024 9:46:54 GMT 1 runner76 said:

Not sure, but I do miss having wingers…..some of the exciting points at the weekend were with Miller doing the ‘wing’ job, but then with ineffective crosses…..

I prefer the word "atrocious."

And that shot he had as well...woeful.

[Ross83]

It's a knock on effect as we don't have enough quality or pace at CB to allow us to be successful with our wingbacks, and only Sorenson and Miller seem capable of playing the role.

To highlight the failings even more so, we definitely don't have enough quality in midfield to play 3-5-2.

Something has to change now.

[terrier17]

Nov 11, 2024 10:12:01 GMT 1 Ross83 said:

It's a knock on effect as we don't have enough quality or pace at CB to allow us to be successful with our wingbacks, and only Sorenson and Miller seem capable of playing the role.

To highlight the failings even more so, we definitely don't have enough quality in midfield to play 3-5-2.

Something has to change now.

Do you think Duff will change? Because I don’t!

[Mastercracker]

Nov 11, 2024 10:12:01 GMT 1 Ross83 said:

It's a knock on effect as we don't have enough quality or pace at CB to allow us to be successful with our wingbacks, and only Sorenson and Miller seem capable of playing the role.

To highlight the failings even more so, we definitely don't have enough quality in midfield to play 3-5-2.

Something has to change now.

And herein lies another problem with 352 - You need 2 absolute specialist players in the starting 11, so effectively need 4 quality wingbacks in a squad.

I'd argue wide centre back isn't far off being a specialist role either, and we have 1. 2 if you include Balker who truth be told we've not seen enough to know and is generally broken anyway. It's very different to playing CB in a back 4.

It all just makes extra work in the transfer market, making your pool of realistic available signings smaller. For zero benefit IMO.

[galpharm2400]

Nov 11, 2024 10:15:10 GMT 1 terrier17 said:

Nov 11, 2024 10:12:01 GMT 1 Ross83 said:

It's a knock on effect as we don't have enough quality or pace at CB to allow us to be successful with our wingbacks, and only Sorenson and Miller seem capable of playing the role.

To highlight the failings even more so, we definitely don't have enough quality in midfield to play 3-5-2.

Something has to change now.

Do you think Duff will change? Because I don’t!

The biggest failing of the system is the 'two' bit.
They dont play as a pair, we dont have a proper big man, little man combination and there is no real pace, to have koroma and marshall together.
Most balls into our front two are lost, percentage balls forward are lost so our attacking is sporadic and slowed down because of the number of passes required. Going over the opposition defence does not bring any joy,putting it forward into the wide channels likewise.
Simple fact is if we play more in their half there is less defending for our defence to do.
Pearson, Lees and Helik do better in a pair, Lonwijk is struggling at times with his 2 colleagues 'positioning' and Balker hasnt played enough for anyone to guess how well he could fit a two or a 3 for us.
Spencer is being forced in.
I just see too many town shirts too close together, too much and for too long in this system, in our own half.
Odd when everybody is back there are still wide open spaces for the opposition to collect the ball in??
We lack an out ball so often..

[irverino]

Nov 11, 2024 10:15:10 GMT 1 terrier17 said:

Nov 11, 2024 10:12:01 GMT 1 Ross83 said:

It's a knock on effect as we don't have enough quality or pace at CB to allow us to be successful with our wingbacks, and only Sorenson and Miller seem capable of playing the role.

To highlight the failings even more so, we definitely don't have enough quality in midfield to play 3-5-2.

Something has to change now.

Do you think Duff will change? Because I don’t!

After watching the 1st Crawley goal you would say never again, but MD is a stubborn mule has he proved to be at Swansea & would rather fall on his own sword than change his only approach......Baffling really when you can see week in week out players struggling with it. 

[runner76]

But what kind of manager can ONLY have such a rigid system? Like others have said, you need the very best players, fit, and quality backup for it be effective. This is third division not Europe elite…..!

[drumriggend]

It’s killing us..



In the immortal words of my football hero Mike basset..





We should be playing..



Four..four..foooking two..





🍻

[royrace]

Nov 11, 2024 11:28:19 GMT 1 runner76 said:

But what kind of manager can ONLY have such a rigid system? Like others have said, you need the very best players, fit, and quality backup for it be effective. This is third division not Europe elite…..!

It's bizarre and when you're recruiting for such a system you risk the next coach needing wingers. Just another reason it's a crap idea. Who's job is it to look at this sort of strategy, succession planning etc? You guessed it.

[chrispwanton]

The trouble is the lack of wingbacks, Duff is clearly not going to change formation. I really can’t understand why we have gone into the season with only 2 recognised wingbacks in the squad. On Saturday everything went down the left through miller who let’s be honest had a poor game, we were utterly clueless in attacking positions down the right hand side. We are so predictable and easy to set up against. Same with the attacking set pieces, every ball into the box has been an in swinging, I’d like to see us mix it up a little instead of being so predictable.

[Mastercracker]

Nov 11, 2024 14:57:14 GMT 1 chrispwanton said:

The trouble is the lack of wingbacks, Duff is clearly not going to change formation. I really can’t understand why we have gone into the season with only 2 recognised wingbacks in the squad. On Saturday everything went down the left through miller who let’s be honest had a poor game, we were utterly clueless in attacking positions down the right hand side. We are so predictable and easy to set up against. Same with the attacking set pieces, every ball into the box has been an in swinging, I’d like to see us mix it up a little instead of being so predictable.

TBF Headleys best position is probably WB, but he's that poor that often that he's borderline unusable.

He's 23 now and has 66 football league apps to his name yet hes no better or consistent than he was when he made his first.