Why are we so slow?

[keefer]

It appears to me that the players use lead lined boots. They are so slow and cumbersome. Are they being over trained, have their minds turned to mush, just what is it?
It's particularly obvious in the defence, we are being ripped apart defensively but they are getting no protection from our tortoise like midfield.
Short of replacing 3/4 of the team, I don't really know how things can be improved and a big part of the problem is that I don't think Duff does either

[terriersyndrome]

Miller is the only player with any real pace in the squad, Koroma isn't a slouch either but overall we have a very laboured squad of players. No leadership and no pace. Nieve recruitment.

[nicovaesen]

Remember VLP getting ripped by fans for having no end product? Imagine having a player with his pace to move the ball forward now!

[Christ in Shades (art)]

I think we look slow because of a couple of things,

Firstly, players constantly receive the ball with their back to goal, why? No one ever scored facing away from the oppositions goal. Which leads me nicely one to my next point,

This leads to us playing it backwards, which leads to a sideways pass, it's risk averse. Countless times our players never turn in to space and move forward, with speed in deed and thought. It's annoying.

We aren't a bad side, we need to move it faster, we're so pedestrian at times.

[crux]

Sept 29, 2024 20:42:43 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

I think we look slow because of a couple of things,

Firstly, players constantly receive the ball with their back to goal, why? No one ever scored facing away from the oppositions goal. Which leads me nicely one to my next point,

This leads to us playing it backwards, which leads to a sideways pass, it's risk averse. Countless times our players never turn in to space and move forward, with speed in deed and thought. It's annoying.

We aren't a bad side, we need to move it faster, we're so pedestrian at times.

We are also a very slow set of players!

Admittedly, a lack of confidence makes the players do everything more slowly and take extra touches, but we have Miller and Spencer who are probably classed as quick. With Koroma, Kasumu and Headley who are OK. Then, unless I've missed anyone, the rest of them would be classed as slow compared to other players in the division.

[shawsie]

The ball moves faster than any player - when you badly use it like we do too often then it makes even quick players look pedestrian.
The number of times we pass it behind players is also a key reason why our play is so laboured........and why we get caught out all too often trying to play out from the back.

[28901]

Sept 29, 2024 20:42:43 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

I think we look slow because of a couple of things,

Firstly, players constantly receive the ball with their back to goal, why? No one ever scored facing away from the oppositions goal. Which leads me nicely one to my next point,

This leads to us playing it backwards, which leads to a sideways pass, it's risk averse. Countless times our players never turn in to space and move forward, with speed in deed and thought. It's annoying.

We aren't a bad side, we need to move it faster, we're so pedestrian at times.

It's a Wagner thing
Pass it back, keep possession, recycle.
Ingrained into Hogg and fed through to every new player who comes through the door.

[BLUE&WHITE]

Confidence.

Did you watch the Man Utd game today? They have some absolute top class players and yet they played awful.

Lack of confidence does funny things to people, in football if it makes you a split second slower, panic, be less decisive, miskick, mistime a kick etc... then you get exposed.

It then gets worse when mistakes are made and people boo etc. it just confirms the doubt.

[onesteviekindon]

Our players are simply not fit enough. I've seen dart players in better shape, it's bloody embarrassing.

[Convictatthemac]

Sept 29, 2024 20:42:43 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

I think we look slow because of a couple of things,

Firstly, players constantly receive the ball with their back to goal, why? No one ever scored facing away from the oppositions goal. Which leads me nicely one to my next point,

This leads to us playing it backwards, which leads to a sideways pass, it's risk averse. Countless times our players never turn in to space and move forward, with speed in deed and thought. It's annoying.

We aren't a bad side, we need to move it faster, we're so pedestrian at times.

Our movement off the ball is awful and has been for a few seasons now. Like you say, they receive the ball with their back to goal, then they pass the ball backwards or sideways, then stand watching to see if their pass is accurate, instead of moving into space for a return pass.

There were signs in preseason that they were being coached to move into space, but as the season has progressed, the players have regressed to old habits. The early games in preseason were obviously against lesser opponents, which allowed them to build the confidence in this style of play, the confidence held along with the performances against tougher opponents later in preseason and early season. But the moment a few stray passes occurred, the players got into their own heads and lost it.

Maybe a video of them playing some decent stuff needs to be shown to them to remind them they are capable of playing well, not the endless mistakes they’ve been making recently.

[griffa]

Our passing ability is very poor, we often try to play the easy option ball, as seen v Reading, when Hoggy could have played a a long ball to Callum Marshall, instead he played a safe pass to Koroma, who misplaced pass went to a Reading player.
Is it our lack of confidence, or lack of vision, or lack of ability to finish, we played better than Reading, creating a large number of shots, with 7 on target, compare our powder puff shots, against Reading's ruthless finishing? - UTT.

[digs]

Sept 30, 2024 4:40:03 GMT 1 Convictatthemac said:

Sept 29, 2024 20:42:43 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

I think we look slow because of a couple of things,

Firstly, players constantly receive the ball with their back to goal, why? No one ever scored facing away from the oppositions goal. Which leads me nicely one to my next point,

This leads to us playing it backwards, which leads to a sideways pass, it's risk averse. Countless times our players never turn in to space and move forward, with speed in deed and thought. It's annoying.

We aren't a bad side, we need to move it faster, we're so pedestrian at times.

Our movement off the ball is awful and has been for a few seasons now. Like you say, they receive the ball with their back to goal, then they pass the ball backwards or sideways, then stand watching to see if their pass is accurate, instead of moving into space for a return pass.

There were signs in preseason that they were being coached to move into space, but as the season has progressed, the players have regressed to old habits. The early games in preseason were obviously against lesser opponents, which allowed them to build the confidence in this style of play, the confidence held along with the performances against tougher opponents later in preseason and early season. But the moment a few stray passes occurred, the players got into their own heads and lost it.

Maybe a video of them playing some decent stuff needs to be shown to them to remind them they are capable of playing well, not the endless mistakes they’ve been making recently.

How long would it take to trawl through thousands of hours trying to find content to make that video?

[Detective Boyle]

Sept 29, 2024 22:53:09 GMT 1 BLUE&WHITE said:

Confidence.

Did you watch the Man Utd game today? They have some absolute top class players and yet they played awful.

Lack of confidence does funny things to people, in football if it makes you a split second slower, panic, be less decisive, miskick, mistime a kick etc... then you get exposed.

It then gets worse when mistakes are made and people boo etc. it just confirms the doubt.

I don’t think United do have top class players. One or two good players but can’t think of any that would get into the top teams in the division. Think same can be said for town - we have a couple of decent players but the rest poor.

[runner76]

Sept 29, 2024 22:57:35 GMT 1 onesteviekindon said:

Our players are simply not fit enough. I've seen dart players in better shape, it's bloody embarrassing.

Is Duff at every training session or is he still travelling up and down from the South.

I know when the big boss is away and you’ve got line managers in charge, nobody works as hard….

[rockwall]

Sept 29, 2024 20:31:53 GMT 1 nicovaesen said:

Remember VLP getting ripped by fans for having no end product? Imagine having a player with his pace to move the ball forward now!

I would include Joe Lolley in that too.

[dm]

Alongside a pitiful aptitude to do the basics (control, pass), I think a shocking lack of football intelligence contributes to how slow we progress. Movement is shit, meaning the options available to players struggling to do basics aren't very good options.

We always seem to be one step behind when the opposition have the ball and rarely have players physically positioned (including body shape) to minimise opposition threat.

The lack of autonomy is astonishing (Town are not alone in that - see Gary Neville's complaint about Wolves on Saturday). Because of this, we have players who don't do anything unexpected. AKA predictable. We have zero flair, again ensuring nothing is unpredictable.

And then underpinning it all, we generally have some of the least mobile players in the professional game.

[artysid]

As others have said, it's about our obsession with slowing the tempo of the game down as a team, looking for the easy back pass rather than to move it forward, no one looking to drive forward into space, no one moving forward to receive the ball.

Safe(?), dull, and predictable.

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Sept 30, 2024 9:37:21 GMT 1 dm said:

Alongside a pitiful aptitude to do the basics (control, pass), I think a shocking lack of football intelligence contributes to how slow we progress. Movement is shit, meaning the options available to players struggling to do basics aren't very good options.

We always seem to be one step behind when the opposition have the ball and rarely have players physically positioned (including body shape) to minimise opposition threat.

The lack of autonomy is astonishing (Town are not alone in that - see Gary Neville's complaint about Wolves on Saturday). Because of this, we have players who don't do anything unexpected. AKA predictable. We have zero flair, again ensuring nothing is unpredictable.

And then underpinning it all, we generally have some of the least mobile players in the professional game.

We had someone unpredictable, Burgzorg, but the fans turned on him.

[detox]

Another thing is the pace of the passing..at times we can ping it around a bit but we do too many longer passes without any pace on the ball so by the time our player receives it, having had no opponent anywhere near him, the opponent is on his back at the same time the ball arrives.. We see it with Lees/Hogg/Pearson when they pass across the back..the pass is too slow so by the time they receive the ball the only option left is pass it back to the keeper. Same with passes out to full backs who are immediately closed down and left with few options..

It all seems part of a malaise, along with the midfield making themselves unavailable for a pass by hiding behind an opponent..the team is riddled with it so it's no wonder we always look slow and how every team we play seem quicker around the pitch than we are.

[Mastercracker]

We're ponderous at getting up the pitch. There's 3 ways of progressing the ball up the pitch that I can think of...

1) A direct ball to a target man who holds it up. We don't have this in our locker, closest would be Ladapo but I don't think he's a target man really.

2) Incisive passing through the thirds. Less said about this the better.

3) Dribbling up the pitch. We don't have any ball carriers.

Look at the two decent sides we've had in the last few years. The 16/17 team had options 2 and 3. Mooy could play passes that anyone since could only dream of and VLP for all his flaws could beat 3 men and carry the ball 40 yards. Neither ever adequately replaced.

The 21/22 side wasn't as good to watch as 16/17 but LOB was a brilliant and unorthadox ball carrier in midfield. He set most of our moves going or created so many set pieces winning the ball on the edge of our box and then driving forward and skipping past a couple of lunges before releasing a marauding Toffolo. You could tell LOB was originally a wide player. Not replaced him either.

This current side has so few options. The possession we do have is usually harmless passing between defenders on or around half way. We have no direct outball unless an opposition is that high that Koroma can get in behind and we don't have a single player who can break at speed with the ball at feet.

This being L1, loads of sides wont have these things either and the way round it is to be solid, do the basics well and just wait on the other team to fuck up like Bolton did (its L1, they almost always will fuck up). But we cant even do that at the moment, in fact we're the ones fucking up and then once we have life's even easier for the opposition as we're toothless for reasons already said above.

This is why I don't think May or Taylor was the key signing and we could have both now and still look the same. We either needed a top tier for the level target man, a Mooy type who could draw 2 or 3 players in then play an incisive pass or a flying wideman and we've got none of these.

[terriermark2]

What’s wrong, Duff, Cartwright, Nagle, the players, medical team, something else?

I am struggling to work out what is the problem at the moment after the Peterborough game I was convinced we would be a top 4 team this season (and we still might be) after that game the performances have dropped every game.

Do we sack another manager soon or do we be a lot more patient and hope for a turnaround? On one hand I think we should stick this one out as we have made too many changes and it has not seemed to help, on the other hand the stubbornness to not change our shape looks like Duff doesn’t have a plan B, with the current available players we look much more suited to playing 4 at the back, once Miller is fit that changes quickly and he and Sorenson can play those wingback roles well, Spencer and Headley cannot, Spencer because he is a Right back and Hedley because he really is not good enough. The manager needs a big reaction from the players in the next 2 games as currently they don’t look to be playing for him or putting the effort in expected.

One thing I am now convinced about is that prior to Duff leaving us, Mark Cartwright must go first or at very least at the same time, if this appointment fails then Mark Cartwright must go and not be allowed to have any involvement in a future appointment, I would even suggest he should go now and get someone in to try and steer us in a better direction before the January window.

As for Kevin Nagle, I think he has been poorly advised with some of the football decisions, you can’t fault his investment so far and the significant changes off the pitch, but any chairman will be ultimately judged by the performances / results on the pitch, currently these are not up to standard, I am sure Kevin Nagle would agree with this, one thing I am not sure about is how it is possible to change these results / performances at the current time, I hope that Michael Duff does know what to do and the performances and results return soon.

Hopefully, we can change the mindset tomorrow night and come away from the game with something, if not the pressure on the Barnsley home match will be huge.

[overtonterrierspirit]

Sept 30, 2024 13:40:49 GMT 1 Mastercracker said:

We're ponderous at getting up the pitch. There's 3 ways of progressing the ball up the pitch that I can think of...

1) A direct ball to a target man who holds it up. We don't have this in our locker, closest would be Ladapo but I don't think he's a target man really.

2) Incisive passing through the thirds. Less said about this the better.

3) Dribbling up the pitch. We don't have any ball carriers.

Look at the two decent sides we've had in the last few years. The 16/17 team had options 2 and 3. Mooy could play passes that anyone since could only dream of and VLP for all his flaws could beat 3 men and carry the ball 40 yards. Neither ever adequately replaced.

The 21/22 side wasn't as good to watch as 16/17 but LOB was a brilliant and unorthadox ball carrier in midfield. He set most of our moves going or created so many set pieces winning the ball on the edge of our box and then driving forward and skipping past a couple of lunges before releasing a marauding Toffolo. You could tell LOB was originally a wide player. Not replaced him either.

This current side has so few options. The possession we do have is usually harmless passing between defenders on or around half way. We have no direct outball unless an opposition is that high that Koroma can get in behind and we don't have a single player who can break at speed with the ball at feet.

This being L1, loads of sides wont have these things either and the way round it is to be solid, do the basics well and just wait on the other team to fuck up like Bolton did (its L1, they almost always will fuck up). But we cant even do that at the moment, in fact we're the ones fucking up and then once we have life's even easier for the opposition as we're toothless for reasons already said above.

This is why I don't think May or Taylor was the key signing and we could have both now and still look the same. We either needed a top tier for the level target man, a Mooy type who could draw 2 or 3 players in then play an incisive pass or a flying wideman and we've got none of these.

Great post and I agree with every word.
Highlights absolutely perfectly where our weaknesses are and worryingly have been for a long time.

[theterrier42]

Sept 29, 2024 22:57:35 GMT 1 onesteviekindon said:

Our players are simply not fit enough. I've seen dart players in better shape, it's bloody embarrassing.

I reckon Luke Littler would get in our team to be fair

[menstonterrier]

Slow in thought too

[Scott Chegg]

Sept 30, 2024 10:21:40 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

Sept 30, 2024 9:37:21 GMT 1 dm said:

Alongside a pitiful aptitude to do the basics (control, pass), I think a shocking lack of football intelligence contributes to how slow we progress. Movement is shit, meaning the options available to players struggling to do basics aren't very good options.

We always seem to be one step behind when the opposition have the ball and rarely have players physically positioned (including body shape) to minimise opposition threat.

The lack of autonomy is astonishing (Town are not alone in that - see Gary Neville's complaint about Wolves on Saturday). Because of this, we have players who don't do anything unexpected. AKA predictable. We have zero flair, again ensuring nothing is unpredictable.

And then underpinning it all, we generally have some of the least mobile players in the professional game.

We had someone unpredictable, Burgzorg, but the fans turned on him.

Maybe because he was a brain-dead selfish moron who played the game as though he was the only player on the pitch and appeared not to give a monkey's about the team's impending relegation.

Also, he wasn't very good.

[Christ in Shades (art)]

Sept 30, 2024 19:41:20 GMT 1 Scott Chegg said:

Sept 30, 2024 10:21:40 GMT 1 Christ in Shades (art) said:

We had someone unpredictable, Burgzorg, but the fans turned on him.

Maybe because he was a brain-dead selfish moron who played the game as though he was the only player on the pitch and appeared not to give a monkey's about the team's impending relegation.

Also, he wasn't very good.

He was probably one of our best players last season, granted, the bar was very low.

[dezzly]

I feel like half of it is we are slow to react at times or only react when the ball has actually gone where it’s gone,we don’t seem to read where it will likely go so second to a lot of balls.
That said with balker our injured we don’t have masses of pace in the back line

[detox]

When we play the ball out wide and attack down the wing, have a look across the pitch and see how many players are running upfield in support... none.

The midfield should be busting a gut to support and the back 3,4 should be pushing up to half way or beyond, but we don't.

If the wide player gets past their FB and looks up for a target, who's there?

If he looks inside, who's there? No one.

You take a look at central midfield and it's devoid of Town players. Where is everyone?

And that's the problem.

[drewden]

Oct 1, 2024 8:34:23 GMT 1 detox said:

When we play the ball out wide and attack down the wing, have a look across the pitch and see how many players are running upfield in support... none.

The midfield should be busting a gut to support and the back 3,4 should be pushing up to half way or beyond, but we don't.

If the wide player gets past their FB and looks up for a target, who's there?

If he looks inside, who's there? No one.

You take a look at central midfield and it's devoid of Town players. Where is everyone?

And that's the problem.

The problem is the manager is making them play this way, otherwise he would have changed things a few games back, expect the same tonight.

[detox]

Oct 1, 2024 11:12:17 GMT 1 drewden said:

Oct 1, 2024 8:34:23 GMT 1 detox said:

When we play the ball out wide and attack down the wing, have a look across the pitch and see how many players are running upfield in support... none.

The midfield should be busting a gut to support and the back 3,4 should be pushing up to half way or beyond, but we don't.

If the wide player gets past their FB and looks up for a target, who's there?

If he looks inside, who's there? No one.

You take a look at central midfield and it's devoid of Town players. Where is everyone?

And that's the problem.

The problem is the manager is making them play this way, otherwise he would have changed things a few games back, expect the same tonight.

If that's the case I hope he sees the problem. Couple of weeks ago I was watching us have a thrown in and there were no runners to receive the ball..the camera scanned wide and there's Town players in the centre circle and far touchline, watching...midfield players.  We're too spread out and so there's gaps everywhere, our opponents are exploiting this to the full.. I'm no qualified coach or anything but it just seems too often the guy with the ball is basically on his own..