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Post by Henry Mcgee on Oct 23, 2024 11:01:32 GMT 1
I think we've seen enough now to say it is pretty poor - much worse than I thought it would be.
We're without several Championship (or at least top end League 1) players such as Rudoni, Sorba, Helik, Balker, Nicholls, Nakayama, Burgzorg (add Koroma to that list now) and, of the players we've signed, only Hodge and possibly Miller look as though they could have a chance in the Championship.
We'd be bottom 3 if we'd stayed up but we're currently 5th and looking a pretty strong outfit in this league - we'll be there or thereabouts come the end of the season - especially if we strengthen in January and then get a decent run without injuries.
I hear talk of improvement from Wiles, Kasumu, Turton etc - they've simply found themselves playing at a much easier level and so look better. Hopefully, they'll become more confident as a result and really will have improved by the end of the season - instead of getting worse which was happening in a league that was too good for them last year.
I really can't see how we can possibly finish outside the top 6 of this division and 2nd spot has to be achievable based on what I've seen so far. Then a massive summer awaits as this squad would almost certainly be straight back down.
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Post by King Neil on Oct 23, 2024 11:05:41 GMT 1
I guess had we not been relegated then the playing staff would have been entirely different
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Post by Mastercracker on Oct 23, 2024 11:09:33 GMT 1
Its absolute garbage, but then I don't know why people had created this narrative in their heads that it wasn't and had somehow got better in the 12 years we were away.
We're 5th having had a load of injuries, a therefore unsettled side, a complete brainfart of a month and no real quality up front.
2nd has to be the aim as we should only get better from here.
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Dan
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by Dan on Oct 23, 2024 11:17:02 GMT 1
I guess had we not been relegated then the playing staff would have been entirely different Definitely. I said at the time of relegation that it actually meant we didn't need as big a reset as if we'd stayed up. It meant we were able to keep hold of the likes of Ward, Lees, Pearson, Turton etc as they can do a job in League 1. At the end of this season the following are out of contract: Hogg Maxwell Lees Pearson Turton (club option of 1 more year) Ruffels Koroma Helik (club option of 1 more year) Ward Kasumu (club option of 1 more year) Ayina Headley If we do go up, we can let most of these move on. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Oct 23, 2024 11:22:37 GMT 1
Massive difference between the Championship and League 1, I had forgotten by just how much.
When you watch the ITV EFL highlights and see the quality and technique of some of the Championship teams and compare with the likes of Bristol Rovers it really brings it home.
I can’t think of one League 1 player that I’ve seen this season that I thought was a good player.
Looks like there’s only 1 automatic promotion place to aim for - I hope to god that we take it.
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Post by softboy on Oct 23, 2024 11:30:07 GMT 1
I can think of 1 - Jay Stansfield at Brum. Pretty much every division is split, top going for promotion, middle going nowhere, bottom fighting relegation. The overall standard is obvious much lower than the Championship but im actually quite enjoying going into most games looking to win.
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Post by townarentbest on Oct 23, 2024 11:30:23 GMT 1
I think we've seen enough now to say it is pretty poor - much worse than I thought it would be. We're without several Championship (or at least top end League 1) players such as Rudoni, Sorba, Helik, Balker, Nicholls, Nakayama, Burgzorg (add Koroma to that list now) and, of the players we've signed, only Hodge and possibly Miller look as though they could have a chance in the Championship. We'd be bottom 3 if we'd stayed up but we're currently 5th and looking a pretty strong outfit in this league - we'll be there or thereabouts come the end of the season - especially if we strengthen in January and then get a decent run without injuries. I hear talk of improvement from Wiles, Kasumu, Turton etc - they've simply found themselves playing at a much easier level and so look better. Hopefully, they'll become more confident as a result and really will have improved by the end of the season - instead of getting worse which was happening in a league that was too good for them last year. I really can't see how we can possibly finish outside the top 6 of this division and 2nd spot has to be achievable based on what I've seen so far. Then a massive summer awaits as this squad would almost certainly be straight back down. Agree with your final sentence. Wiles, Kasumu, Turton etc won't magically be better even if we win every game from now to next May. They're established footballers, not developing ones, and if they're playing regularly in the Championship, that equates to a struggling season 🤷♂️ Unless we're happy to do what Rotherham have done for the last 10 years bouncing between this division and being rubbish in the one above. I know there has always been the easy talk of PL ambitions, but maybe we are happy as a club to bound between the divisions...nothing has fallen apart with relegation, its probably a good place to be to avoid the required £ spend to support Championship quality signings every other year, the club still exists and the home crowds don't seem that different in size to last season. As a fan I'm not interested in being Rotherham. |
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Oct 23, 2024 11:32:23 GMT 1
I can think of 1 - Jay Stansfield at Brum. Pretty much every division is split, top going for promotion, middle going nowhere, bottom fighting relegation. The overall standard is obvious much lower than the Championship but im actually quite enjoying going into most games looking to win. Agree re Stansfield, but I’ve not seen him yet apart from on TV. |
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Post by dugnet on Oct 23, 2024 11:41:49 GMT 1
I think we've seen enough now to say it is pretty poor - much worse than I thought it would be. We're without several Championship (or at least top end League 1) players such as Rudoni, Sorba, Helik, Balker, Nicholls, Nakayama, Burgzorg (add Koroma to that list now) and, of the players we've signed, only Hodge and possibly Miller look as though they could have a chance in the Championship. We'd be bottom 3 if we'd stayed up but we're currently 5th and looking a pretty strong outfit in this league - we'll be there or thereabouts come the end of the season - especially if we strengthen in January and then get a decent run without injuries. I hear talk of improvement from Wiles, Kasumu, Turton etc - they've simply found themselves playing at a much easier level and so look better. Hopefully, they'll become more confident as a result and really will have improved by the end of the season - instead of getting worse which was happening in a league that was too good for them last year. I really can't see how we can possibly finish outside the top 6 of this division and 2nd spot has to be achievable based on what I've seen so far. Then a massive summer awaits as this squad would almost certainly be straight back down. I think you make a very fair point. Currently we are play off team (at best), we need to improve to be an automatic team. However competing in the Championship, which is the stated aim, is a different challenge. Even allowing for some improvement and momentum I would have to agree that this squad would struggle at the bottom end of that table. The immediate challenge is to get promoted, and there is a lot of work to be done to achieve that. Longer term there needs to be a recognition about the strength of the squad and what would be required in terms of investment to be successful at a better level going forward. If things do develop positively it will be a nice debate to have. However it was only 4 weeks ago that we looked anything but any sort of a promotion contender. That in it's self is as good a barometer of where we sit right now i.e. a club trying to rebuild it's identity, confidence and at the same time get promotion back to the level it was previously at. When you think about it in those terms there is more to do than we perhaps all appreciate. |
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Post by ColchTerrier on Oct 23, 2024 11:42:34 GMT 1
The first 10 games we accumulated 15points.
This has to change to minimum 24pts for the next 10 games if we have any chance of keeping up with achieving 2nd place, then hopefully we get a decent striker in January.
League 1 is dump, we need out ASAP!
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Post by softboy on Oct 23, 2024 11:43:14 GMT 1
Personally I want players who can get us out of L1. Given the team I saw last night (against the team who are 2nd lets not forget) and the number of players that will come back from injury I think our squad is good enough to at least have a good go. What happens if/when we go up is irrelevant at the moment. Im sure KN is clever enough to make sure if we go up he invests enough to move us forward. From a day to day point of view im going to Crawley and really looking forward to standing behind the goal (I remember the old days!)
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Post by dezzly on Oct 23, 2024 11:44:46 GMT 1
The first 10 games we accumulated 15points. This has to change to minimum 24pts for the next 10 games if we have any chance of keeping up with achieving 2nd place, then hopefully we get a decent striker in January. League 1 is dump, we need out ASAP! 13/14 points from the next 6 required for me to keep us as close to an average 2 ppg.Couple wins and a draw in the 3 home games and the same in the away games…bare minimum we win 4 then maybe lose one draw one. |
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Post by fredcarno1 on Oct 23, 2024 11:55:40 GMT 1
The standard bar Birmingham is pretty poor, and I’d include us in that. The vast majority of our squad have found their level, even players like Lees and Pearson are at the latter end of their careers and aren’t good enough for the Championship anymore. Hence why largely this group of players got us relegated at a whimper. Even the players we signed in January weren’t up to Championship level, 2 of them in Healy and Balker not up to it physically and Radulovic not up to it either physically, mentally or ability wise. As stated if Duff can’t get this squad into the top six he’s failed massively imo.
If we can manage to get promoted and Nagle wants to progress we need to up the quality of the squad, thinking that players like Wiles, Kasumu, Radulovic, Koroma et al are good enough Championship players would see us back to square 1 IMO.
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Post by runner76 on Oct 23, 2024 11:59:47 GMT 1
The first 10 games we accumulated 15points. This has to change to minimum 24pts for the next 10 games if we have any chance of keeping up with achieving 2nd place, then hopefully we get a decent striker in January. League 1 is dump, we need out ASAP! 24 points over next 10?……I’ll have some of what you’re drinking / smoking!! I’ll be very happy / amazed if we get even 22 points, which was the most points over 10 we got last time we ended up in the playoffs….. |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Oct 23, 2024 12:02:45 GMT 1
Its absolute garbage, but then I don't know why people had created this narrative in their heads that it wasn't and had somehow got better in the 12 years we were away. We're 5th having had a load of injuries, a therefore unsettled side, a complete brainfart of a month and no real quality up front. 2nd has to be the aim as we should only get better from here. The Saints team that pipped us to second place had about 7 future internationals in it - Lallana, Schneiderlin, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Lambert, Jose Fonte, think another one or two. The Clark team attacking wise had way more firepower than this team as well. Sure there are more examples. I think it's fair to say that the quality we've seen has been significantly below what it was last time we were here. |
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Post by ColchTerrier on Oct 23, 2024 12:07:39 GMT 1
The first 10 games we accumulated 15points. This has to change to minimum 24pts for the next 10 games if we have any chance of keeping up with achieving 2nd place, then hopefully we get a decent striker in January. League 1 is dump, we need out ASAP! 24 points over next 10?……I’ll have some of what you’re drinking / smoking!! I’ll be very happy / amazed if we get even 22 points, which was the most points over 10 we got last time we ended up in the playoffs….. No prisoners  |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Oct 23, 2024 12:09:12 GMT 1
The difficulty is not necessarily the individual games, but the need for autos means we need 90+ points. 34 games left and we're on 19 points, so another 70+ probably required.
More than 2 points a game for the rest of the season. Winning every home game and drawing every away game probably wouldn't be enough.
We need to be winning 3 in a week, win the away games at Leyton Orient on a Tuesday. Beat Bolton at home the end of Jan and then beat Brum at home 3 days later. Winning in bunches, when we're not playing well, when we're thin with injuries.
It's the relentless winning mentality that is the difficult thing. Showing how poor the league is by beating every team - very easy for us to watch from the stands or the couch and say how poor the opposition is, we need our team to do our talking for us.
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Post by andyeastleake on Oct 23, 2024 12:16:09 GMT 1
I think it's fair to say that the quality we've seen has been significantly below what it was last time we were here. 100% this. I didn't expect very much from League One at all but the quality has been much worse than I anticipated. |
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Post by Mastercracker on Oct 23, 2024 12:17:22 GMT 1
Its absolute garbage, but then I don't know why people had created this narrative in their heads that it wasn't and had somehow got better in the 12 years we were away. We're 5th having had a load of injuries, a therefore unsettled side, a complete brainfart of a month and no real quality up front. 2nd has to be the aim as we should only get better from here. The Saints team that pipped us to second place had about 7 future internationals in it - Lallana, Schneiderlin, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Lambert, Jose Fonte, think another one or two. The Clark team attacking wise had way more firepower than this team as well. Sure there are more examples. I think it's fair to say that the quality we've seen has been significantly below what it was last time we were here. Yeah, I said in another thread we lack the couple of real quality players capable of individual moments that win tight games like last night, players who are clearly playing below their level. I was actually thinking Pilkington and Rhodes when I said it. Pilkington left us in L1 and went straight to the Premier League and scored 13 goals in 2 seasons. Rhodes was probably the best finisher outside the top flight. I think you could argue the overall squad has more depth and perhaps the base level of quality is marginally higher than we had back then but I dont think we have any attacking players that would be wanted by championship clubs never mind a premier league club. Luckily theres 1 quality side in this league rather than 4 or 5 like last time we were here. |
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Post by dezzly on Oct 23, 2024 12:24:49 GMT 1
The Saints team that pipped us to second place had about 7 future internationals in it - Lallana, Schneiderlin, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Lambert, Jose Fonte, think another one or two. The Clark team attacking wise had way more firepower than this team as well. Sure there are more examples. I think it's fair to say that the quality we've seen has been significantly below what it was last time we were here. Yeah, I said in another thread we lack the couple of real quality players capable of individual moments that win tight games like last night, players who are clearly playing below their level. I was actually thinking Pilkington and Rhodes when I said it. Pilkington left us in L1 and went straight to the Premier League and scored 13 goals in 2 seasons. Rhodes was probably the best finisher outside the top flight. I think you could argue the overall squad has more depth and perhaps the base level of quality is marginally higher than we had back then but I dont think we have any attacking players that would be wanted by championship clubs never mind a premier league club. Luckily theres 1 quality side in this league rather than 4 or 5 like last time we were here. 100%.Also we it shows is that come January we could do with been in the automatic spots or just outside because we need to sign those types of players,ones too good for this level,but to convince them to do so it will probably need to look like we’ve a very good chance of promotion.That or they could potentially be coming to the end of a contract at a champ club,the above probably applies even if they are. What the standard also shows is how risky it is to sign players from this level when you’re in the champ.Wiles,Kasumu etc look competent at this level and will probably kick on this season to look way above competent which is why they got champ moves originally but neither cut it when they were up there,not up to press anyway. For me we probably will go back for joe Taylor,he’s barely had a kick(which brings its own risks) and now they’ve players back fit and brought Moses in they’ll probably let him go.We may well be after another though so we need to be looking to champ players who would consider dropping down. |
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Post by drayltonboy (independent) on Oct 23, 2024 12:25:32 GMT 1
Minimum potential of nine players off the books, but worth buttons. They will have to be replaced by nine players of (hopefully Championship) quality. Kev's pockets will have to be very deep.
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Oct 23, 2024 12:27:21 GMT 1
The Saints team that pipped us to second place had about 7 future internationals in it - Lallana, Schneiderlin, Oxlaide-Chamberlain, Lambert, Jose Fonte, think another one or two. The Clark team attacking wise had way more firepower than this team as well. Sure there are more examples. I think it's fair to say that the quality we've seen has been significantly below what it was last time we were here. Yeah, I said in another thread we lack the couple of real quality players capable of individual moments that win tight games like last night, players who are clearly playing below their level. I was actually thinking Pilkington and Rhodes when I said it. Pilkington left us in L1 and went straight to the Premier League and scored 13 goals in 2 seasons. Rhodes was probably the best finisher outside the top flight. I think you could argue the overall squad has more depth and perhaps the base level of quality is marginally higher than we had back then but I dont think we have any attacking players that would be wanted by championship clubs never mind a premier league club. Luckily theres 1 quality side in this league rather than 4 or 5 like last time we were here. In January we should be signing that quality to take Wiles' place in the team. I'd want an attacking midfielder with some flair that gets ahead of the ball, links play and scores/creates goals - the sort of thing that Lampard used to do for Chelsea, although at a more realistic level of quality. |
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Post by Baby Ate My Eight Ball on Oct 23, 2024 12:29:03 GMT 1
Minimum potential of nine players off the books, but worth buttons. They will have to be replaced by nine players of (hopefully Championship) quality. Kev's pockets will have to be very deep. Not especially. Nine wages will free up quite a bit of money - it's about buying wisely in the right markets. |
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Oct 23, 2024 12:33:59 GMT 1
Its absolute garbage, but then I don't know why people had created this narrative in their heads that it wasn't and had somehow got better in the 12 years we were away. We're 5th having had a load of injuries, a therefore unsettled side, a complete brainfart of a month and no real quality up front. 2nd has to be the aim as we should only get better from here. I must admit that I was one of those who previously assumed that the standard of play would have progressed since our last visit to this league but (in the case of this season anyway) it's clearly much worse. There's no doubt in my mind that the Lee Clark side that finished in the '09 play offs and subsequently lost to Milwall in the semis, would have utterly destroyed this current batch of teams, even more so then Birmingham are. |
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digs
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by digs on Oct 23, 2024 12:34:17 GMT 1
Yeah, I said in another thread we lack the couple of real quality players capable of individual moments that win tight games like last night, players who are clearly playing below their level. I was actually thinking Pilkington and Rhodes when I said it. Pilkington left us in L1 and went straight to the Premier League and scored 13 goals in 2 seasons. Rhodes was probably the best finisher outside the top flight. I think you could argue the overall squad has more depth and perhaps the base level of quality is marginally higher than we had back then but I dont think we have any attacking players that would be wanted by championship clubs never mind a premier league club. Luckily theres 1 quality side in this league rather than 4 or 5 like last time we were here. In January we should be signing that quality to take Wiles' place in the team. I'd want an attacking midfielder with some flair that gets ahead of the ball, links play and scores/creates goals - the sort of thing that Lampard used to do for Chelsea, although at a more realistic level of quality. We will sign fk all in January,and then it will be in the summer we need to sign this and that,same all merry-go-round |
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Post by rubicon on Oct 23, 2024 12:38:16 GMT 1
With the current staff/players, I honestly can't see us as anything but possible play off candidates, and more likely top ten candidates. Yes it's a poor league, but we're no rocket scientists. People seem to forget our recent run of defeats, and believe me, it will happen again.
Play offs themselves, well I'm not confident even if we're in them.
To be honest, there is not a single player in this team, who I honestly believe can perform consistently. One sees it every week on here, one match they're up and at it and going to be the best thing since sliced bread, the next match, they're invisible.
I don't know whether they don't care, aren't fit enough or what, but it's there week in and week out, and exactly the reason why fans aren't getting excited or behind the team every game. We simply haven't a clue as to who's actually going to turn up. Fact is, it's that poor a league, we're beating teams without even having to hit overdrive.
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Post by boooothy on Oct 23, 2024 12:40:35 GMT 1
It’s rubbish!!! We’ve been a little unlucky that in reality there is only 1 automatic promotion place available.
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Post by savilerowtownfan on Oct 23, 2024 12:48:02 GMT 1
Nagle is focused on the ‘match day experience’ which is ( in my opinion) definitely an improvement on recent offerings. This rather than 3RD tier football ( which is really poor
tho there are more athletes than when we were last here) has kept the crowds healthy. The ‘Yo yo’ Rotherham model might just prove more sustainable than risking FFP by ‘going for it’ should we get back to the Championship. It is an interesting dilemma for Kevin the businessman, and remember what Kevin is already watching is a class above Sac Republic !
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Oct 23, 2024 12:56:37 GMT 1
I would add Lonwijk to the list of players we've signed that would do well in the division above, but as his loan ends in the summer that's a moot point.
It depends though - when we ask who is good enough - what we mean. I'd suggest we have some that are plenty good enough to be back up options. For example: I wouldn't be happy with Jacob Chapman as our regular first choice goalkeeper in the Championship, but competing with Maxwell for a spot on the bench and the odd game here and there in case of injuries or suspension, plus a cup game or two is fine.
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Post by King Neil on Oct 23, 2024 13:09:51 GMT 1
Nagle is focused on the ‘match day experience’ which is ( in my opinion) definitely an improvement on recent offerings. This rather than 3RD tier football ( which is really poor tho there are more athletes than when we were last here) has kept the crowds healthy. The ‘Yo yo’ Rotherham model might just prove more sustainable than risking FFP by ‘going for it’ should we get back to the Championship. It is an interesting dilemma for Kevin the businessman, and remember what Kevin is already watching is a class above Sac Republic ! But we haven't been yo-yo before so why now? A lot of these championship clubs that have owners who spend a ton and don't get promoted end up with points deductions and league 1 football for a while Us on the other hand haven't been here for 12 years and have had 2 championship playoff finals and 2 seasons in the Premier league Sensible sustainable spending and a good manager and there is no reason why we can't do another 12 year stint You don't have to blow your brains out to get a bit of success |
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