Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 15:20:37 GMT 1
I think to call those of us " HOLIER THAN THOU" who have concerns about his re-introduction to such a high profile career is very harsh.We can ALL surely have our opinions without resorting to slagging one another off for differing. IMO. Wheres peoples Christian spirit. And we are all without blame, never made a mistake, never done something we are ashamed of. Give the guy a break. Let him get his life going again which includes football. Many people in high positions have done things shameful but their lives and careers have carried on. Show some humanity and Christianity. Second chances. Tell that to John Profumo.
|
|
|
Post by Barbieterrier on Oct 15, 2014 15:25:59 GMT 1
Its a shame Ted. There are plenty of women at town games but there numbers aren't reflected on here. Makes for a far more balanced, informed debate imo. Without any patronising the ironically titled Barbie has held her end up superbly well against some pretty patriarchal views. Hope she isn't put off. I don't really consider myself to be a barbie - bit of humour in there in that im a girly girl passionate about football. I'm a lass in my 30s been a season ticket holder at htafc for years and withstood a lot of sexism during it since its a mostly male oriented sport. So a few posts from some guys who get a little personal or irate because I hold a different opinion won't put me off. Can cope with a bit of testosterone flying. I've been told already I'm single minded because of what I feel or I believe that CE is guilty. I don't hold an opinion on his guilt. But enough people did to convict him. So yes I'm singled minded in that I wouldn't want a convicted rapist called super Ched Evans having his photos taken with one of my young daughters on a family open day any more than Id want him to be a plumber alone with me in my kitchen. It seems remarkable the amount of people that believe he should be entitled to pick up his life where he left off after a few months away when she will never pick up her life properly again. Thanks to the guys who have said they appreciate my imput. That's really lovely. UTT
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 15:34:49 GMT 1
Stay true to your opinions.
|
|
|
Post by Barbieterrier on Oct 15, 2014 15:43:24 GMT 1
Stay true to your opinions. Thanks. This is probably one subject I won't ever change my opinion on. Saying that you probably won't find me on other threads discussing whether or not I think Smithies is a good goal keeper or not. Hahahaha
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 15:50:36 GMT 1
Its a shame Ted. There are plenty of women at town games but there numbers aren't reflected on here. Makes for a far more balanced, informed debate imo. Without any patronising the ironically titled Barbie has held her end up superbly well against some pretty patriarchal views. Hope she isn't put off. I don't really consider myself to be a barbie - bit of humour in there in that im a girly girl passionate about football. I'm a lass in my 30s been a season ticket holder at htafc for years and withstood a lot of sexism during it since its a mostly male oriented sport. So a few posts from some guys who get a little personal or irate because I hold a different opinion won't put me off. Can cope with a bit of testosterone flying. I've been told already I'm single minded because of what I feel or I believe that CE is guilty. I don't hold an opinion on his guilt. But enough people did to convict him. So yes I'm singled minded in that I wouldn't want a convicted rapist called super Ched Evans having his photos taken with one of my young daughters on a family open day any more than Id want him to be a plumber alone with me in my kitchen. It seems remarkable the amount of people that believe he should be entitled to pick up his life where he left off after a few months away when she will never pick up her life properly again. Thanks to the guys who have said they appreciate my imput. That's really lovely. UTT Hey, I know you're not a 'barbie' type hence why I said it's a good ironic name on here. I get it's a joke. This forum can be very challenging (putting it politely) at times so your views are welcome. Good contributions on here. You've kept your calm unlike me!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 16:00:15 GMT 1
I didn't mean to be rude yesterday Lanky but this is exactly the wildly incorrect and nieve kind of statements I was referring to. False claims has nothing to do with rape conviction rates. I don't know where you've get this idea from. False claims keepin the reporting down? What planet are you on seriously? Rapes are not reported beause of the position the victim is 1) In an abusive relationship and unable to report for psychological reasons or fear or recrimination. 2) working in prostitution or vice of some kind and unable to report on their pimp 3) in gang culture where police involvement would result in exclusion or physical violence 4) in a controlled situation by older men like on Roherham, Rochdale, Peterborough. The reality of rape isn't students having the odd drink too many. In the vast majority of cases the woman will be in a non equal position in society and vulnerable to abuses. I can assure you that the CPS do not make decisions on whether or not to pursue rape cases because they've read about a false claim in some third rate media. What a bizarre and delusional thing to write. Where have to I got this stuff from- mates down the pub or have you just made it up yourself? Conviction rates are low because witnesses are rare, victims are usually vulnerable & not confident, their credibility is attacked of they work in vice or were in a relationship with the man. The issue of consent will be suggested to be ambiguous by defence council. It is often one word agaisnt the other and jury's are led towards reasonable doubt. Rape is not a white collar crime. If it were then conviction rates would be much higher. Your whole concept of 'bogus' claims is total nonsense. A minute proportion of actual rape cases. It is ill informed and extrovertly sexist. I hope to god you don't get pulled up for jury service in a rape case that's for sure. My point about false claims affecting reporting of rapes is that when these claims are publicised I think it will affect people who want to report rapes and make them think twice. If no false claims were ever made and reported this effect would never happen. I do get your point but really the issue of false claims isn't a factor. My best friend works in a Met rape squad and the issues affecting non reporting are the social/psychological ones I've mentioned above plus the sense they won't be believed. False claims are a tiny % of reported cases. The challenge for police is to get victims to testify against and name their abusers.
|
|
|
Post by Barbieterrier on Oct 15, 2014 16:08:36 GMT 1
I don't really consider myself to be a barbie - bit of humour in there in that im a girly girl passionate about football. I'm a lass in my 30s been a season ticket holder at htafc for years and withstood a lot of sexism during it since its a mostly male oriented sport. So a few posts from some guys who get a little personal or irate because I hold a different opinion won't put me off. Can cope with a bit of testosterone flying. I've been told already I'm single minded because of what I feel or I believe that CE is guilty. I don't hold an opinion on his guilt. But enough people did to convict him. So yes I'm singled minded in that I wouldn't want a convicted rapist called super Ched Evans having his photos taken with one of my young daughters on a family open day any more than Id want him to be a plumber alone with me in my kitchen. It seems remarkable the amount of people that believe he should be entitled to pick up his life where he left off after a few months away when she will never pick up her life properly again. Thanks to the guys who have said they appreciate my imput. That's really lovely. UTT Hey, I know you're not a 'barbie' type hence why I said it's a good ironic name on here. I get it's a joke. This forum can be very challenging (putting it politely) at times so your views are welcome. Good contributions on here. You've kept your calm unlike me! Aw thank you. That's really nice. I guess if you feel passionate about something you're going 'to lose your cool' you're only human. I just try to respond logically I guess. I'm glad you can also tell I'm not really a Barbie ;0)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 16:08:58 GMT 1
I didn't mean to be rude yesterday Lanky but this is exactly the wildly incorrect and nieve kind of statements I was referring to. False claims has nothing to do with rape conviction rates. I don't know where you've get this idea from. False claims keepin the reporting down? What planet are you on seriously? Rapes are not reported beause of the position the victim is 1) In an abusive relationship and unable to report for psychological reasons or fear or recrimination. 2) working in prostitution or vice of some kind and unable to report on their pimp 3) in gang culture where police involvement would result in exclusion or physical violence 4) in a controlled situation by older men like on Roherham, Rochdale, Peterborough. The reality of rape isn't students having the odd drink too many. In the vast majority of cases the woman will be in a non equal position in society and vulnerable to abuses. I can assure you that the CPS do not make decisions on whether or not to pursue rape cases because they've read about a false claim in some third rate media. What a bizarre and delusional thing to write. Where have to I got this stuff from- mates down the pub or have you just made it up yourself? Conviction rates are low because witnesses are rare, victims are usually vulnerable & not confident, their credibility is attacked of they work in vice or were in a relationship with the man. The issue of consent will be suggested to be ambiguous by defence council. It is often one word agaisnt the other and jury's are led towards reasonable doubt. Rape is not a white collar crime. If it were then conviction rates would be much higher. Your whole concept of 'bogus' claims is total nonsense. A minute proportion of actual rape cases. It is ill informed and extrovertly sexist. I hope to god you don't get pulled up for jury service in a rape case that's for sure. If you read my post correctly you will see that I never said they did, I said they decide whether to prosecute the people who have made these bogus claims based on that view. I know that this is factually correct and I know that the police who I have been in contact with are disgusted by this attitude. I haven't put forward a single view on this thread that is in anyway based on sexism. Some of your comments on this thread are bang out of order when aimed at individuals such as myself with nothing to back them up. Ok then implicitly sexist. This whole idea of bogus rape claims is a red herring and misses the far more serous issue of unreported &/or untried cases. You are right though I really should not get involved in these debates on here. What's offends me is the systemic belief systems within our society that set the wider basis for how rape is viewed and treated in uk.
|
|
|
Post by 3Pipe on Oct 15, 2014 16:09:50 GMT 1
Simply impossible to put an accurate figure on false allegations of rape. A selection of findings on the prevalence of false rape allegations. Data from Rumney (2006).
|
|
|
Post by lankystreak on Oct 15, 2014 16:17:33 GMT 1
If you read my post correctly you will see that I never said they did, I said they decide whether to prosecute the people who have made these bogus claims based on that view. I know that this is factually correct and I know that the police who I have been in contact with are disgusted by this attitude. I haven't put forward a single view on this thread that is in anyway based on sexism. Some of your comments on this thread are bang out of order when aimed at individuals such as myself with nothing to back them up. Ok then implicitly sexist. This whole idea of bogus rape claims is a red herring and misses the far more serous issue of unreported &/or untried cases. You are right though I really should not get involved in these debates on here. What's offends me is the systemic belief systems within our society that set the wider basis for how rape is viewed and treated in uk. I think the problem I have Joe is that you seem to have taken my views on this one individual rape case scenario and used it as a basis for my attitude towards all rape cases. I do think that this is a strange and not black and white case and that is why it has to be looked at. I still don't see any implied sexism in my posts, feel free to point some out. The whole idea of bogus claims being a red herring is at stark contrast with my own personal experiences and also with numerous reported cases which as I have explained previously I would assume is only a fraction of the actual false claims.
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 15, 2014 16:20:34 GMT 1
clearly he does not 'get to pick up his life' where he left off. He has a great number of restrictions put on him, all of which if breached will result in a return to a custodial sentence.
This is also taking into account any football team taking him on after the organised protests before his release. All of which from both sides of the incident do not help any future appeals asked to look at the incident.
His 'fame' shouldn't affect his right to a fair hearing but it does because people like Barbie have allocated this man more substance and character because he is a professional footballer??? Im not sure that more than a handful have ever been proved to be worth more than 'he seemed an ok bloke'...
Treat him as a fairly simple bloke with a job that just happens to pay well and don't give him any extra status because he kicks a bit of plastic around on a Saturday and we might just get the 'context' of the incident about right.
Barbie, you have no idea who you live near or who your daughter or yourself come into contact with on a daily basis, if you did you would probably never leave the house and your kids would have an armed guard at all times.
Picking on one bloke who did something bad when very drunk who has been humiliated(quite rightly) in court and prison and who has served the allotted sentence for said crime wont actually make you any safer. You know Ched Evans, you might even be able to spot him coming in a year or two, the rest you have no idea.
What seems to be ignored in all this or even worse its derided by feminist groups is that, 'hello,in the real world there are plenty of bad men who will, without conscience at the very least take advantage of very drunk females'. If you get drunk enough, often enough it will happen and you can spout on all day about 'educating men etc etc', it wont happen. We have large numbers of waiting cases very similar to the Ched Evans one, very drunken/drugged episodes its going to become about as arbitory as his conviction many,many times from here on in. Don't expect to be 'looked after' when you are stupidly drunk or off your head on drugs, don't expect others to take responsibility for you.
As I said before none of the above condones rape in any way, the unfortunate fact that gets overlooked is we don't live in a perfect world, in all honesty we don't even live in a very pleasant world at all, you have to protect yourself and take responsibility for yourself, surprisingly enough if you don't, the bad people out there will get you. Ignoring the bleeding obvious isn't really a good enough excuse after the fact.
|
|
|
Post by bro600 on Oct 15, 2014 16:46:40 GMT 1
clearly he does not 'get to pick up his life' where he left off. He has a great number of restrictions put on him, all of which if breached will result in a return to a custodial sentence. This is also taking into account any football team taking him on after the organised protests before his release. All of which from both sides of the incident do not help any future appeals asked to look at the incident. His 'fame' shouldn't affect his right to a fair hearing but it does because people like Barbie have allocated this man more substance and character because he is a professional footballer??? Im not sure that more than a handful have ever been proved to be worth more than 'he seemed an ok bloke'... Treat him as a fairly simple bloke with a job that just happens to pay well and don't give him any extra status because he kicks a bit of plastic around on a Saturday and we might just get the 'context' of the incident about right. Barbie, you have no idea who you live near or who your daughter or yourself come into contact with on a daily basis, if you did you would probably never leave the house and your kids would have an armed guard at all times. Picking on one bloke who did something bad when very drunk who has been humiliated(quite rightly) in court and prison and who has served the allotted sentence for said crime wont actually make you any safer. You know Ched Evans, you might even be able to spot him coming in a year or two, the rest you have no idea. What seems to be ignored in all this or even worse its derided by feminist groups is that, 'hello,in the real world there are plenty of bad men who will, without conscience at the very least take advantage of very drunk females'. If you get drunk enough, often enough it will happen and you can spout on all day about 'educating men etc etc', it wont happen. We have large numbers of waiting cases very similar to the Ched Evans one, very drunken/drugged episodes its going to become about as arbitory as his conviction many,many times from here on in. Don't expect to be 'looked after' when you are stupidly drunk or off your head on drugs, don't expect others to take responsibility for you. As I said before none of the above condones rape in any way, the unfortunate fact that gets overlooked is we don't live in a perfect world, in all honesty we don't even live in a very pleasant world at all, you have to protect yourself and take responsibility for yourself, surprisingly enough if you don't, the bad people out there will get you. Ignoring the bleeding obvious isn't really a good enough excuse after the fact. The same then goes for Ched Evans in the real world if you get drunk and act in an ungentlemanly fashion and then a female accuses you of rape don't be surprized if you end up in trouble. If he'd have protected himself in this not so pleasant world then he'd be ok today..Let this case be a lesson and a deterrent to the men who can't be educated and long may it continue where if a man takes advantage of a situation and a vulnerable person then he gets what he deserves.. Maybe then men will start to behave like gentlemen..We don't have to give in to the bad people, we need to make it a good world wherever and whenever we can.. Just because it is so today we don't have to lower our moral standards to their levels and accept it..
|
|
|
Post by Barbieterrier on Oct 15, 2014 16:49:20 GMT 1
I know there's bad people out there and we've no idea who our children are near but I know if htafc made the choice to sign a known convicted rapist I couldn't support that or give my money to him in wages in form of a season ticket and be singing from NSL Super Ched Evans! To me imo it wouldn't feel right whilst the lass is probably in tatters somewhere. Yes we all have to take responsibility for ourselves on a night out. I've never been so drunk and alone that ive lost my belongings or passed out on a bed. But she did. What was wrong with these lads? Instead of doing what they did and filming it why not find her phone and call her friends? Call her a taxi? We talk about feminists but where are the gentlemen then? She trusted the wrong guy. How many of us in our life have trusted the wrong person? That is not a crime.
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 15, 2014 17:46:44 GMT 1
if you are not fit to make your own decisions, someone will make them for you..might be good or bad...
welcome to the real world..
Its life as it is, not how you would prefer it.
Fire burns, you know this, why stick your hand in it, enjoy the heat but with a fireguard in front of it?
If you start going down the 'they should be gentlemen route' you do leave yourself very much open to 'shouldn't they act more like ladies' ?? We vilify men who lead women on to get money but not nearly as much as the other way around?? Are we as a society saying than men should be more 'responsible and honest' than women??? even if both are pissed etc??
its a grey area, I suspect a larger number of drunken mistakes will end up in prison than the bona fida rapists. Its a numbers game to the 'activists' and they will be happy with it.(im not calling Barbie an activist)...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 17:55:12 GMT 1
Ok then implicitly sexist. This whole idea of bogus rape claims is a red herring and misses the far more serous issue of unreported &/or untried cases. You are right though I really should not get involved in these debates on here. What's offends me is the systemic belief systems within our society that set the wider basis for how rape is viewed and treated in uk. I think the problem I have Joe is that you seem to have taken my views on this one individual rape case scenario and used it as a basis for my attitude towards all rape cases. I do think that this is a strange and not black and white case and that is why it has to be looked at. I still don't see any implied sexism in my posts, feel free to point some out. The whole idea of bogus claims being a red herring is at stark contrast with my own personal experiences and also with numerous reported cases which as I have explained previously I would assume is only a fraction of the actual false claims. Fair enough lanky. I apologise for calling you sexist. I felt you were occupying a questionable position on this but accept this may not be your general view. I have probably unfairly singled you out as representing a position that I do not feel represents the reality on the ground, & one that I object to. I would just point out that 'false accusations' make media stories far more than actual rape cases so their occurrence may seem higher than it is. As a society I believe we need to be taking the whole issue more seriously and looking to improve awareness and attitudes towards victims and the context of the lives of most rape victims.
|
|
|
Post by Derby Blue on Oct 15, 2014 18:05:13 GMT 1
Its a shame Ted. There are plenty of women at town games but there numbers aren't reflected on here. Makes for a far more balanced, informed debate imo. Without any patronising the ironically titled Barbie has held her end up superbly well against some pretty patriarchal views. Hope she isn't put off. I don't really consider myself to be a barbie - bit of humour in there in that im a girly girl passionate about football. I'm a lass in my 30s been a season ticket holder at htafc for years and withstood a lot of sexism during it since its a mostly male oriented sport. So a few posts from some guys who get a little personal or irate because I hold a different opinion won't put me off. Can cope with a bit of testosterone flying. I've been told already I'm single minded because of what I feel or I believe that CE is guilty. I don't hold an opinion on his guilt. But enough people did to convict him. So yes I'm singled minded in that I wouldn't want a convicted rapist called super Ched Evans having his photos taken with one of my young daughters on a family open day any more than Id want him to be a plumber alone with me in my kitchen. It seems remarkable the amount of people that believe he should be entitled to pick up his life where he left off after a few months away when she will never pick up her life properly again. Thanks to the guys who have said they appreciate my imput. That's really lovely. UTT Why shouldn't he be able to pick his life up again though, if he's served his time? Of course it seems unfair that a convicted rapist can come out of prison and lead many people's dream life, but I don't think we should restrict him just because he has a well paid job?
|
|
|
Post by Barbieterrier on Oct 15, 2014 18:06:58 GMT 1
if you are not fit to make your own decisions, someone will make them for you..might be good or bad... welcome to the real world.. Its life as it is, not how you would prefer it. Fire burns, you know this, why stick your hand in it, enjoy the heat but with a fireguard in front of it? If you start going down the 'they should be gentlemen route' you do leave yourself very much open to 'shouldn't they act more like ladies' ?? We vilify men who lead women on to get money but not nearly as much as the other way around?? Are we as a society saying than men should be more 'responsible and honest' than women??? even if both are pissed etc?? its a grey area, I suspect a larger number of drunken mistakes will end up in prison than the bona fida rapists. Its a numbers game to the 'activists' and they will be happy with it.(im not calling Barbie an activist)... I wouldn't know where to start to be an activist. But maybe going back to being a gentleman and helping the girl get home - instead of how they behaved how about just doing the decent thing rather than the gentlemanly thing then and helping her get home. Or I'm I too niave and nice? I couldn't consider for one second say robbing a guy on a night out because he is drunk and vulnerable. But if I did would it be his responsibility for being drunk or mine for just being unscrupulous? It is a grey area you're spot on and for you guy's it must be quite a thought that if you want a one night stand after a night out is the only way forward getting written permission?
|
|
|
Post by Barbieterrier on Oct 15, 2014 19:07:04 GMT 1
I don't really consider myself to be a barbie - bit of humour in there in that im a girly girl passionate about football. I'm a lass in my 30s been a season ticket holder at htafc for years and withstood a lot of sexism during it since its a mostly male oriented sport. So a few posts from some guys who get a little personal or irate because I hold a different opinion won't put me off. Can cope with a bit of testosterone flying. I've been told already I'm single minded because of what I feel or I believe that CE is guilty. I don't hold an opinion on his guilt. But enough people did to convict him. So yes I'm singled minded in that I wouldn't want a convicted rapist called super Ched Evans having his photos taken with one of my young daughters on a family open day any more than Id want him to be a plumber alone with me in my kitchen. It seems remarkable the amount of people that believe he should be entitled to pick up his life where he left off after a few months away when she will never pick up her life properly again. Thanks to the guys who have said they appreciate my imput. That's really lovely. UTT Why shouldn't he be able to pick his life up again though, if he's served his time? Of course it seems unfair that a convicted rapist can come out of prison and lead many people's dream life, but I don't think we should restrict him just because he has a well paid job? If he was a dustbin man he wouldn't be getting the media coverage he is doing. But he isn't. He's trying to re establish his life in a high profile job. One where he is planning on entertaining families and being held in high esteem regardless of being on the sex offenders register. I wouldn't restrict him because of the amount he's being paid. But I would give consideration to the fact he's entertaining families. That he will probably be a goal scoring hero to young boys and what must the media coverage be doing to his victim? I just dread to think.
|
|
|
Post by Derby Blue on Oct 15, 2014 19:43:53 GMT 1
Why shouldn't he be able to pick his life up again though, if he's served his time? Of course it seems unfair that a convicted rapist can come out of prison and lead many people's dream life, but I don't think we should restrict him just because he has a well paid job? If he was a dustbin man he wouldn't be getting the media coverage he is doing. But he isn't. He's trying to re establish his life in a high profile job. One where he is planning on entertaining families and being held in high esteem regardless of being on the sex offenders register. I wouldn't restrict him because of the amount he's being paid. But I would give consideration to the fact he's entertaining families. That he will probably be a goal scoring hero to young boys and what must the media coverage be doing to his victim? I just dread to think. I'm not denying he's a bad role model, but his job is just to play football, it's not his fault if people decide to idolise him.
|
|
|
Post by 3Pipe on Oct 15, 2014 19:53:33 GMT 1
I'm not denying he's a bad role model, but his job is just to play football, it's not his fault if people decide to idolise him. A fact lost amongst the pious. A point I made earlier which was lost amongst the pomposity of some of the holier-than-thou posts in here, not sweeping this under the carpet with a ban and exposing him to the intense ill feeling will make folk and football players alike think on about getting themselves into situations like he has.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 20:02:27 GMT 1
Stay true to your opinions. Thanks. This is probably one subject I won't ever change my opinion on. Saying that you probably won't find me on other threads discussing whether or not I think Smithies is a good goal keeper or not. Hahahaha You'd have as much an idea as anybody else!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 20:03:18 GMT 1
if you are not fit to make your own decisions, someone will make them for you..might be good or bad... welcome to the real world.. Its life as it is, not how you would prefer it. Fire burns, you know this, why stick your hand in it, enjoy the heat but with a fireguard in front of it? ... Feel free to correct me, as I'm not sure about the context and target of your argument, but this sounds very close to victim blaming. I doubt you would use the same line of reasoning if we were talking about the victim of a burglary, fraud, physical assault, and so on, so I don't understand why you would think it's acceptable to do so in this instance. The only person responsible for a sexual assault is the perpetrator.
|
|
|
Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Oct 15, 2014 20:07:23 GMT 1
Why shouldn't he be able to pick his life up again though, if he's served his time? Of course it seems unfair that a convicted rapist can come out of prison and lead many people's dream life, but I don't think we should restrict him just because he has a well paid job? If he was a dustbin man he wouldn't be getting the media coverage he is doing. But he isn't. He's trying to re establish his life in a high profile job. One where he is planning on entertaining families and being held in high esteem regardless of being on the sex offenders register. I wouldn't restrict him because of the amount he's being paid. But I would give consideration to the fact he's entertaining families. That he will probably be a goal scoring hero to young boys and what must the media coverage be doing to his victim? I just dread to think. I don't believe there is a footballer in the land who sees his job as family entertainment. His job and career like every other person is to use his skills to benefit himself and his own family by (usually) maximising his earnings and given a footballer's career is a short one and there is no legal reason why he can't then IMO he should be allowed to do so. Whilst not dismissing the victim's feelings, the court found her rapist guilty and passed down a sentence, I am sure she will have received some financial award too. It is the court's job to see justice is served and this they have done. Victims of crimes unfortunately have to deal with the fact that the criminal once his sentence is served will return into society and likely their previous field of employment.
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Oct 15, 2014 20:11:09 GMT 1
if you are not fit to make your own decisions, someone will make them for you..might be good or bad... welcome to the real world.. Its life as it is, not how you would prefer it. Fire burns, you know this, why stick your hand in it, enjoy the heat but with a fireguard in front of it? ... Feel free to correct me, as I'm not sure about the context and target of your argument, but this sounds very close to victim blaming. I doubt you would use the same line of reasoning if we were talking about the victim of a burglary, fraud, physical assault, and so on, so I don't understand why you would think it's acceptable to do so in this instance. The only person responsible for a sexual assault is the perpetrator. You are still a victim if you left your back door open while you went shopping and got burgled, but most people would still say that you acted foolishly
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2014 20:21:37 GMT 1
Feel free to correct me, as I'm not sure about the context and target of your argument, but this sounds very close to victim blaming. I doubt you would use the same line of reasoning if we were talking about the victim of a burglary, fraud, physical assault, and so on, so I don't understand why you would think it's acceptable to do so in this instance. The only person responsible for a sexual assault is the perpetrator. You are still a victim if you left your back door open while you went shopping and got burgled, but most people would still say that you acted foolishly So how would that apply in this context? If a woman is intoxicated, is she partially to blame for being raped? If a woman consents to sex with an individual is she somehow to blame if he invites another person to have sex with her--a person she might not want to have sex with? And what about if a man or teenage boy did that same things? If he got drunk and shared a taxi with another man and was then raped? Or if, after going back to a girl's room, she decided that her male friend might like to join in too? Would we be so quick to spread the blame around then?
|
|
|
Post by Giggity on Oct 15, 2014 20:34:50 GMT 1
Has anyone else 'licked out' a girl immediately after a friend had penetrated her whilst being recorded by your own brother and friend? Welsh people eh? That alone deserves a 2.5 year jail sentence.
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Oct 15, 2014 20:36:42 GMT 1
You are still a victim if you left your back door open while you went shopping and got burgled, but most people would still say that you acted foolishly So how would that apply in this context? If a woman is intoxicated, is she partially to blame for being raped? If a woman consents to sex with an individual is she somehow to blame if he invites another person to have sex with her--a person she might not want to have sex with? And what about if a man or teenage boy did that same things? If he got drunk and shared a taxi with another man and was then raped? Or if, after going back to a girl's room, she decided that her male friend might like to join in too? Would we be so quick to spread the blame around then? Well done, my friend - you have it exactly! It would all be dealt with by the appropriate authorities and if the culprit was caught, they would be punished to the lawful level at that time. Even a drunk woman (so drunk she appears not to remember what happened) who voluntarily goes back to a hotel with two men, apparently then has consensual, lawful relations with one of them, is still due protection under the law from "relations" with the other, if she is not capable of giving consent. I would still say that, while deserving the full protection of the law, she still acted follishly - at best, she acted foolishly. If it were my daughter, I would expect her to be protected, but I would tell her that she had, in my opinion, acted foolishly. They didn't go back to her room, they went back to HIS room.
|
|
|
Post by raggytash on Oct 15, 2014 21:07:04 GMT 1
People seem to think he's done his time, he HAS NOT, he has done 2,5 years of a 5 year sentence.............
|
|
|
Post by lankystreak on Oct 15, 2014 21:13:43 GMT 1
I think the problem I have Joe is that you seem to have taken my views on this one individual rape case scenario and used it as a basis for my attitude towards all rape cases. I do think that this is a strange and not black and white case and that is why it has to be looked at. I still don't see any implied sexism in my posts, feel free to point some out. The whole idea of bogus claims being a red herring is at stark contrast with my own personal experiences and also with numerous reported cases which as I have explained previously I would assume is only a fraction of the actual false claims. Fair enough lanky. I apologise for calling you sexist. I felt you were occupying a questionable position on this but accept this may not be your general view. I have probably unfairly singled you out as representing a position that I do not feel represents the reality on the ground, & one that I object to. I would just point out that 'false accusations' make media stories far more than actual rape cases so their occurrence may seem higher than it is. As a society I believe we need to be taking the whole issue more seriously and looking to improve awareness and attitudes towards victims and the context of the lives of most rape victims. Thanks for that first bit Joe, apology accepted. I agree that false accusations are more newsworthy in the eyes of newspaper editors than an actual rape case, however they are still under prosecuted even if the circumstances are black and white. Sadly both rape and false claims of rape are a sad sign that as Galpharm2400 stated earlier we don't live in a perfect world and there are a lot of people out there that are prepared to do whatever they want regardless of how it impacts on other peoples lives. It isn't victim blaming to advise people not to get drunk to a point where they make bad decisions on a night out (I don't specifically mean this case), we have all done things we regret after a few beers, as Supernovak claimed earlier I'm pretty sure that if I use this case as a guide I have been "raped" on at least a couple of occasions in my mid twenties
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Oct 15, 2014 21:14:32 GMT 1
Which is the law - he has done his time. You may not like it, I may not like it, but there it is.
|
|