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Post by AndySk on Mar 12, 2015 14:15:59 GMT 1
That list is tragic and shocking. The perpetrators will I hope find their hell wherever it might be. Do we also get a list of the innocent victims of NATO bombings by the way? Fair point and the number will be far greater than any 'official' one. There is the point that NATO do try not to kill civilians(Not that that helps the families of those who've lost someone ), that list from bickmuxton is from attacks targeting civilians (mainly). |
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Post by Solid Snake on Mar 12, 2015 14:34:33 GMT 1
I don't think Muslims and 'Islam extremists' should be tarned with the same brush.
A bit like, I don't think every Millwall fan should be branded as an idiot.
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Post by DeepSpace on Mar 12, 2015 14:38:03 GMT 1
That list is tragic and shocking. The perpetrators will I hope find their hell wherever it might be. Do we also get a list of the innocent victims of NATO bombings by the way? Fair point and the number will be far greater than any 'official' one. There is the point that NATO do try not to kill civilians(Not that that helps the families of those who've lost someone ), that list from bickmuxton is from attacks targeting civilians (mainly). Yes I take the point but I think that in most conflicts combatants hit whoever they think is or will hurt their enemy. In reality you have two groups of people trying to impose their view of the world on other groups of people who probably don't really like either version that much. The main difference is that 'our' side have the more expensive weapons. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2015 15:18:40 GMT 1
Only on DATM would someone call praying at a football match obscene! I do agree there is not much outcry from the moderate Muslims, there is some but not nearly enough. I find this hatred of religion to be just as alarming as some of the hate driven by religious fanatics. Time everyone got on with their own lives and left other people to live theirs. I think the outcry of Muslims worldwide was the same as it was from everyone else. There's no need for it to be anymore or any less. We're all people at the end of the day. You could argue the outcry from the US over public shootings of 3 muslims over a "parking space", or the more recent shooting of an Iraqi man who moved to America 3 weeks ago, wasn't enough - but then that's not really been in the news has it? Really? You don't seem to remember the videos of them dancing in the streets after 9/11. There are moderates but they are almost silent |
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Post by wasp on Mar 12, 2015 15:24:51 GMT 1
By the same token players making religious gestures on the pitch should be a '#disgrace' but of course it's just the fact these guys are muslim. Just another Islamophobe that rightly received a backlash on twitter. Facism is alive in your remark Hypocrite |
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Post by SaleTerrier on Mar 12, 2015 16:53:28 GMT 1
I think the outcry of Muslims worldwide was the same as it was from everyone else. There's no need for it to be anymore or any less. We're all people at the end of the day. You could argue the outcry from the US over public shootings of 3 muslims over a "parking space", or the more recent shooting of an Iraqi man who moved to America 3 weeks ago, wasn't enough - but then that's not really been in the news has it? Really? You don't seem to remember the videos of them dancing in the streets after 9/11. There are moderates but they are almost silent Think that's just a very small minority. I'll give you my thoughts if you want them - but this isn't really the place for this topic, best get back to arguing about losing my seat once a year & playing two up front  |
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Post by benmsmith4 on Mar 12, 2015 16:58:52 GMT 1
By the same token players making religious gestures on the pitch should be a '#disgrace' but of course it's just the fact these guys are muslim. Just another Islamophobe that rightly received a backlash on twitter. Facism is alive in your remark Hypocrite Haha I'd love to know how?! |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 12, 2015 17:29:35 GMT 1
fascists/anti fascists  two ends of the same shitty stick....the moral high ground got flattened down some years ago... |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 12, 2015 18:08:26 GMT 1
Religion = A way to control the uneducated masses, Manipulated by despots and zealots to retain power, Influential in countries that still have laws more akin to the middle ages. Like the USA you mean ? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 12, 2015 20:55:26 GMT 1
Oh and remind me again what religion Jimmy Saville was? Leon Brittan? Max Clifford? Rolf Harris? A pervert is a pervert & if you want to stick your head in the sand & pretend it's solely a Muslim problem then please stay well clear of any job that involves safeguarding children won't you. A pervert is a pervert, you're tight. But I suspect the reference wasn't to individual perverts like those you mention, but to large organised gangs of perverts who deliberately target children from other ethnicities than their own. At that muslims have a unique and numerous track record. To think that isn't solely a muslim problem is sticking your head in the sand IMO, though I'm open to read any links you can find of accounts of other ethnic groups of perverts targeting children from different ethnicities. As for the praying at a game- who gives a shit? |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 12, 2015 20:58:44 GMT 1
Oh and remind me again what religion Jimmy Saville was? Leon Brittan? Max Clifford? Rolf Harris? A pervert is a pervert & if you want to stick your head in the sand & pretend it's solely a Muslim problem then please stay well clear of any job that involves safeguarding children won't you. [/quo te]A pervert is a pervert, you're tight. But I suspect the reference wasn't to individual perverts like those you mention, but to large organised gangs of perverts who deliberately target children from other ethnicities than their own. At that muslims have a unique and numerous track record. To think that isn't solely a muslim problem is sticking your head in the sand IMO, though I'm open to read any links you can find of accounts of other ethnic groups of perverts targeting children from different ethnicities. As for the praying at a game- who gives a shit? Slapps you're worrying me now  |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 12, 2015 21:03:30 GMT 1
freudian slip! lol
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Post by DeepSpace on Mar 12, 2015 21:06:47 GMT 1
Oh and remind me again what religion Jimmy Saville was? Leon Brittan? Max Clifford? Rolf Harris? A pervert is a pervert & if you want to stick your head in the sand & pretend it's solely a Muslim problem then please stay well clear of any job that involves safeguarding children won't you. A pervert is a pervert, you're tight. But I suspect the reference wasn't to individual perverts like those you mention, but to large organised gangs of perverts who deliberately target children from other ethnicities than their own. At that muslims have a unique and numerous track record. To think that isn't solely a muslim problem is sticking your head in the sand IMO, though I'm open to read any links you can find of accounts of other ethnic groups of perverts targeting children from different ethnicities. As for the praying at a game- who gives a shit? Why other ethnicities than their own? Does that make a difference? Better or worse would you say? So I'll just address your primary question as I don't actually know the ethnicity of the victims: Link 1Link 2Link 3Link 4. Let me know if that's enough to be going on with. I deal with this sort of stuff for a living (with perps and victims) & can probably have you mentally scarred for life if you really want to get into the finer detail. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 12, 2015 21:17:28 GMT 1
Yes id say it does make a difference as it has obvious racial motives.
None of those links are relevent. Im not saying all paedophile groups are muslim ( though a very disproportionate amount seem to be ).
Im saying paedophile groups who only target victims outside of their own demographic group do seem to be uniquely muslim.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 12, 2015 21:19:55 GMT 1
The thing is if you try and argue the point about " what does it matter?" Re ethnicity you get accused of turning a blind eye to the problem.... I wouldn't want to do that .. It's obviously a huge problem in the Asian community ( and the White British community but I'm happy to accept its a huge problem in the Asian community ) ) ... Without having read the literature about the " ethnicity element " to the problem, I think a lot of it will be to do with availability .... To be a child sex offender you need access to children.... These vulnerable girls ( or teen temptresses as they were dubbed on datm) can often be found in places which make them vulnerable.. Where historically " good Muslim girls" have tended to have spent a less hectic nocturnal life ... There is familial child abuse in Muslim society as there is in our own...I don't think its that Muslim paedos wouldn't shag a Muslim girl if one was available ... I'm sure if white child sex abusers had access to vulnerable Muslim girls they wouldn't think twice about abusing them either ...
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 12, 2015 21:20:40 GMT 1
Yes id say it does make a difference as it has obvious racial motives. None of those links are relevent. Im not saying all paedophile groups are muslim ( though a very disproportionate amount seem to be ). Im saying paedophile groups who only target victims outside of their own demographic group do seem to be uniquely muslim. What are the " obvious racial motives " captain ? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 12, 2015 21:31:43 GMT 1
IMO they're that the various groups of muslim paedophiles's victims aren't asian. They target white girls.
If there was a group of 20 or so white paedophiles and all the victims were black, then everyone would rightly presume there was a racial motive behind the choice of victim. Surely?
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Post by DeepSpace on Mar 12, 2015 21:33:33 GMT 1
Yes id say it does make a difference as it has obvious racial motives. None of those links are relevent. Im not saying all paedophile groups are muslim ( though a very disproportionate amount seem to be ). Im saying paedophile groups who only target victims outside of their own demographic group do seem to be uniquely muslim. Are you really, honestly trying to tell me that you think child abusers discern who they will abuse along ethnic lines? I sometimes feel envious of people who can live in such a cloistered world. I'm sorry my friend but that's twaddle taken to new heights. I really, strongly would encourage you to actually go & dig up some SCR & SFO summaries (& no I won't spoonfeed you), read the literature from Criminology, Psychology, Case Law. etc. Then, when you have a vague idea what you're talking about come back & we might let you play with the grown ups. Finally one other thing. I have had in my time access to information that shows that paedophile rings have operated in several communities, including white middle class but (for reasons now becoming apparent) many of them were seen as untouchable, or were never successfully prosecuted. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 12, 2015 21:39:40 GMT 1
Yes id say it does make a difference as it has obvious racial motives. None of those links are relevent. Im not saying all paedophile groups are muslim ( though a very disproportionate amount seem to be ). Im saying paedophile groups who only target victims outside of their own demographic group do seem to be uniquely muslim. Are you really, honestly trying to tell me that you think child abusers discern who they will abuse along ethnic lines? I sometimes feel envious of people who can live in such a cloistered world. I'm sorry my friend but that's twaddle taken to new heights. I really, strongly would encourage you to actually go & dig up some SCR & SFO summaries (& no I won't spoonfeed you), read the literature from Criminology, Psychology, Case Law. etc. Then, when you have a vague idea what you're talking about come back & we might let you play with the grown ups. Finally one other thing. I have had in my time access to information that shows that paedophile rings have operated in several communities, including white middle class but (for reasons now becoming apparent) many of them were seen as untouchable, or were never successfully prosecuted. Are you serious? What you're saying is that in ALL the many high profile cases of muslim paedophiles gangs, carried out by a combined number of hundreds of individuals, who all live in mainly muslim communities surrounded by muslim children- that it is just COINCIDENCE that all the victims weren't muslim? That that wasn't a deliberate racial decision taken by the paedophiles?? Play with the grown ups? Youre a deluded clown lad. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 12, 2015 21:41:03 GMT 1
IMO they're that the various groups of muslim paedophiles's victims aren't asian. They target white girls. If there was a group of 20 or so white paedophiles and all the victims were black, then everyone would rightly presume there was a racial motive behind the choice of victim. Surely? As I say I think the primary factor is accessibility Edit.. And if it was white on black it would be no more or less horrific than white on white.. Child abuse is child abuse is child abuse.... |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 12, 2015 21:56:34 GMT 1
No, no more horrific. But without a racial prejudice is all Im saying. Arguing there wasn't one like the big grown up deep space is trying to do is ludicrous.
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Post by SaleTerrier on Mar 12, 2015 21:58:33 GMT 1
Are you really, honestly trying to tell me that you think child abusers discern who they will abuse along ethnic lines? I sometimes feel envious of people who can live in such a cloistered world. I'm sorry my friend but that's twaddle taken to new heights. I really, strongly would encourage you to actually go & dig up some SCR & SFO summaries (& no I won't spoonfeed you), read the literature from Criminology, Psychology, Case Law. etc. Then, when you have a vague idea what you're talking about come back & we might let you play with the grown ups. Finally one other thing. I have had in my time access to information that shows that paedophile rings have operated in several communities, including white middle class but (for reasons now becoming apparent) many of them were seen as untouchable, or were never successfully prosecuted. Are you serious? What you're saying is that in ALL the many high profile cases of muslim paedophiles gangs, carried out by a combined number of hundreds of individuals, who all live in mainly muslim communities surrounded by muslim children- that it is just COINCIDENCE that all the victims weren't muslim? That that wasn't a deliberate racial decision taken by the paedophiles?? Play with the grown ups? Youre a deluded clown lad. Not sure how this thread has got onto this really. It started out with Muslims practicing there faith, and now we are talking about people not practicing their faith at all. You can't really call these rings of men Muslim, given there actions. If we're sticking to them being Muslim, the communities within the religion are a lot closer than your traditional British neighbourhood - I'd imagine all paedophile rings will commit their disgusting crimes outside of the people they communicate with very regularly. |
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Post by DeepSpace on Mar 12, 2015 21:59:25 GMT 1
Are you really, honestly trying to tell me that you think child abusers discern who they will abuse along ethnic lines? I sometimes feel envious of people who can live in such a cloistered world. I'm sorry my friend but that's twaddle taken to new heights. I really, strongly would encourage you to actually go & dig up some SCR & SFO summaries (& no I won't spoonfeed you), read the literature from Criminology, Psychology, Case Law. etc. Then, when you have a vague idea what you're talking about come back & we might let you play with the grown ups. Finally one other thing. I have had in my time access to information that shows that paedophile rings have operated in several communities, including white middle class but (for reasons now becoming apparent) many of them were seen as untouchable, or were never successfully prosecuted. Are you serious? What you're saying is that in ALL the many high profile cases of muslim paedophiles gangs, carried out by a combined number of hundreds of individuals, who all live in mainly muslim communities surrounded by muslim children- that it is just COINCIDENCE that all the victims weren't muslim? That that wasn't a deliberate racial decision taken by the paedophiles?? Play with the grown ups? Youre a deluded clown lad. OK, fine I'm a clown. You're right & 30 years of experience has been wasted on me. If only I'd realised I'd have gone off & done something that paid me a decent wage instead. I'm out, but just one last thing...if you ever study science you'll know that correlation does not prove connection. The reasons why white children are victimised more than Asian children are to a degree understood & other non-racial factors connecting perpetrators has also been evidenced. Google is your friend but you'll need to switch your brain on. You may not like what research by other clowns tells you though, so maybe you need to get a Research grant yourself & enlighten us all to what they keep missing. |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 12, 2015 21:59:43 GMT 1
Which would be a good point sale ... If it weren't for the fact that most child abuse takes place within the family
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Post by SaleTerrier on Mar 12, 2015 22:01:55 GMT 1
Which would be a good point sale ... If it weren't for the fact that most child abuse takes place within the family Fair point - is that the same with Paedophile rings? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 12, 2015 22:04:41 GMT 1
Not sure about that sale.
Abuse is well known in childrens homes for example- carried out on the children in those homes ( link 3 i think it was), or by catholic priests carried out on catholic children in their care.
The demograph of the victim is generally the same as the paedophiles. Its about access, as ted says.
the muslim gangs seem to be the only ones who deliberately target victims from outside of their demographic and race. ( unless of course the expert grown up is right and thats just an unfathomably wild coincidence?? )
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 12, 2015 22:12:35 GMT 1
Are you serious? What you're saying is that in ALL the many high profile cases of muslim paedophiles gangs, carried out by a combined number of hundreds of individuals, who all live in mainly muslim communities surrounded by muslim children- that it is just COINCIDENCE that all the victims weren't muslim? That that wasn't a deliberate racial decision taken by the paedophiles?? Play with the grown ups? Youre a deluded clown lad. OK, fine I'm a clown. You're right & 30 years of experience has been wasted on me. If only I'd realised I'd have gone off & done something that paid me a decent wage instead. I'm out, but just one last thing...if you ever study science you'll know that correlation does not prove connection. The reasons why white children are victimised more than Asian children are to a degree understood & other non-racial factors connecting perpetrators has also been evidenced. Google is your friend but you'll need to switch your brain on. You may not like what research by other clowns tells you though, so maybe you need to get a Research grant yourself & enlighten us all to what they keep missing. Was it in Rotherham where the report said that the obsession the 'experts' had with political correctness lead to the abuse continuing for far far longer than was necessary? No doubt they were all paid a decent wage too. You seem like a good example of that if you can't even accept that there HAD TO BE a racial prejudice by every one of the muslim paedophile gangs that have come to light. Or maybe I should just switch my brain on and see it as the amazing coincidence it must have been? |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Mar 12, 2015 22:16:20 GMT 1
Not sure about that sale. Abuse is well known in childrens homes for example- carried out on the children in those homes ( link 3 i think it was), or by catholic priests carried out on catholic children in their care. The demograph of the victim is generally the same as the paedophiles. Its about access, as ted says. the muslim gangs seem to be the only ones who deliberately target victims from outside of their demographic and race. ( unless of course the expert grown up is right and thats just an unfathomably wild coincidence?? ) Not sure either Sale.. doubt it. Im trying to hammer this point about accessibility because I think its pivotal. Not to say that if some research sprung up linked to the Rotherham/Halifax/Oxford etc cases saying that the assaults were racially motivated ... eg "We hate whites they are against allah so we punish them by shagging their daughters" then we would have to take that seriously and it would be a worrying development... But as it stands I think its about vulnerability and accessibility. If I was a paedo and I could get easier access to black. Asian, Chinese, Hungarian etc etc then im sure they would be my target groups.. If I had more access to white girls then that would be my target group.... To a paedophile the common denominator is that the victims are children... I really don't think a paedophile would think twice about colour of skin.. But I might be wrong cos im not a paedo and I haven't read all the research ! |
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Post by SaleTerrier on Mar 12, 2015 22:20:33 GMT 1
Not sure about that sale. Abuse is well known in childrens homes for example- carried out on the children in those homes ( link 3 i think it was), or by catholic priests carried out on catholic children in their care. The demograph of the victim is generally the same as the paedophiles. Its about access, as ted says. the muslim gangs seem to be the only ones who deliberately target victims from outside of their demographic and race. ( unless of course the expert grown up is right and thats just an unfathomably wild coincidence?? ) Not sure either Sale.. doubt it. Im trying to hammer this point about accessibility because I think its pivotal. Not to say that if some research sprung up linked to the Rotherham/Halifax/Oxford etc cases saying that the assaults were racially motivated ... eg "We hate whites they are against allah so we punish them by shagging their daughters" then we would have to take that seriously and it would be a worrying development... But as it stands I think its about vulnerability and accessibility. If I was a paedo and I could get easier access to black. Asian, Chinese, Hungarian etc etc then im sure they would be my target groups.. If I had more access to white girls then that would be my target group.... To a paedophile the common denominator is that the victims are children... I really don't think a paedophile would think twice about colour of skin.. But I might be wrong cos im not a paedo and I haven't read all the research ! Fair points. |
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Post by DeepSpace on Mar 12, 2015 22:23:12 GMT 1
OK, fine I'm a clown. You're right & 30 years of experience has been wasted on me. If only I'd realised I'd have gone off & done something that paid me a decent wage instead. I'm out, but just one last thing...if you ever study science you'll know that correlation does not prove connection. The reasons why white children are victimised more than Asian children are to a degree understood & other non-racial factors connecting perpetrators has also been evidenced. Google is your friend but you'll need to switch your brain on. You may not like what research by other clowns tells you though, so maybe you need to get a Research grant yourself & enlighten us all to what they keep missing. Was it in Rotherham where the report said that the obsession the 'experts' had with political correctness lead to the abuse continuing for far far longer than was necessary? No doubt they were all paid a decent wage too. You seem like a good example of that if you can't even accept that there HAD TO BE a racial prejudice by every one of the muslim paedophile gangs that have come to light. Or maybe I should just switch my brain on and see it as the amazing coincidence it must have been? I don't rate your chances of understanding the research if you can't understand a simple argument on a football message board. To help you out... The Rotherham report highlights that blind spots, and subsequent failures to aggressively target what was going on, were linked to "political correctness" (the actual phrase used in the report is "a politically inconvenient truth") meaning a failure to prosecute the perpetrators who in this case were Asian men. I completely agree with that point. Please quote me the bit of the report that says the perpetrator motives were racial, which is the point I am challenging you on. |
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two ends of the same shitty stick....the moral high ground got flattened down some years ago...
