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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 9:29:31 GMT 1
No wonder Deans patience is running thin....
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Post by space hardware on Mar 26, 2015 9:40:42 GMT 1
Absolutely brilliant post, one that will hopefully provide some education to a number of people on here who are in desperate need of it. Sadly Sheriff, I doubt they will have the patience to actually read all that and digest it. I had the patience to read it, digest it and understand it. I respectfully disagree with it though.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 9:59:17 GMT 1
Sadly Sheriff, I doubt they will have the patience to actually read all that and digest it. I had the patience to read it, digest it and understand it. I respectfully disagree with it though. As is your right, personally I don't see anything disagreeable. Must amend an earlier post: Don't argue / debate Politics, Religion or Ross Wilson.
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Post by netterriers4 on Mar 26, 2015 10:52:34 GMT 1
No wonder Deans patience is running thin.... What nonsense. There is no bigger fan of Dean than me, without him I dread to think where we would be. That doesn't mean I can't question something - and as I said elsewhere I work with development people on a regular basis and getting plum roles and contracts is as much about networking and promoting yourself in the right way as it is getting results as they are never at a job/company long enough to see if their "ideas" bear fruit. He didn't deliver change at Watford and was dispensed with by the new owners and DH clearly believed in him, and unlike others on here I don't believe Dean has flawed judgement. What I said before stands for me. It's all about a definition of success. Some of you consider a revamp of our scouts and sports science is enough, for me it was about players (academy and first team) and development of performances off the back of his changes. I can't see that, and I aren't talking about our form over the last few games, I am talking about his time here. The RW thing will divide opinions and it may take years to find out if he has made a positive difference - so how people can hold him as they do confuses me. There is a lot based on him letting the folk that post on here and social media who like to think they are on the inside being afforded time by a clearly affable chap who loves to talk football. Being a nice bloke doesn't make him good!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 11:06:23 GMT 1
No wonder Deans patience is running thin.... What nonsense. There is no bigger fan of Dean than me, without him I dread to think where we would be. That doesn't mean I can't question something - and as I said elsewhere I work with development people on a regular basis and getting plum roles and contracts is as much about networking and promoting yourself in the right way as it is getting results as they are never at a job/company long enough to see if their "ideas" bear fruit. He didn't deliver change at Watford and was dispensed with by the new owners and DH clearly believed in him, and unlike others on here I don't believe Dean has flawed judgement. What I said before stands for me. It's all about a definition of success. Some of you consider a revamp of our scouts and sports science is enough, for me it was about players (academy and first team) and development of performances off the back of his changes. I can't see that, and I aren't talking about our form over the last few games, I am talking about his time here. The RW thing will divide opinions and it may take years to find out if he has made a positive difference - so how people can hold him as they do confuses me. There is a lot based on him letting the folk that post on here and social media who like to think they are on the inside being afforded time by a clearly affable chap who loves to talk football. Being a nice bloke doesn't make him good!!! What nonsense? Deans patience is running thin, take it or leave it, it's fact not opinion. You don't need to lecture me on Ross Wilson, read what Fresh prince has said because he knows his shit.
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Post by townrwe on Mar 26, 2015 11:07:08 GMT 1
No wonder Deans patience is running thin.... What nonsense. There is no bigger fan of Dean than me, without him I dread to think where we would be. That doesn't mean I can't question something - and as I said elsewhere I work with development people on a regular basis and getting plum roles and contracts is as much about networking and promoting yourself in the right way as it is getting results as they are never at a job/company long enough to see if their "ideas" bear fruit. He didn't deliver change at Watford and was dispensed with by the new owners and DH clearly believed in him, and unlike others on here I don't believe Dean has flawed judgement. What I said before stands for me. It's all about a definition of success. Some of you consider a revamp of our scouts and sports science is enough, for me it was about players (academy and first team) and development of performances off the back of his changes. I can't see that, and I aren't talking about our form over the last few games, I am talking about his time here. The RW thing will divide opinions and it may take years to find out if he has made a positive difference - so how people can hold him as they do confuses me. There is a lot based on him letting the folk that post on here and social media who like to think they are on the inside being afforded time by a clearly affable chap who loves to talk football. Being a nice bloke doesn't make him good!!! We found better players when RW wasnt involved considering our smaller stature and league 1 status... Rhodes, Pilks, Roberts, Peltier, Clarke, Arfield......... So what exactly has ross wilson improved? It may be something that gives us benefit in years to come and he has scouted brilliant players with potential into the academy. But personally I think we have been relatively shit in the transfer market in the last couple of years. Yes we got norwood, clayton etc who have made abit of money, but we have hardly uncovered a gem like rhodes, pilks or a great player for our current team like roberts. We have made average signings and we are an average club, Ross Wilson appears to have done his job without excelling. The only way that will ever change is if Billing, Tronstad and Ronan etc become more than average championship players.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:10:55 GMT 1
So being in charge of our entire football operations, meant he has nothing what so ever with our current football being shit? He's only responsible for the part of our entire football operations which aren't currently shit.... Like.... Errr....errrr... What exactly? If we'd beaten Norwich, and beaten Fulham as you could argue we probably deserved to, you'd have absolutely no basis for your line of argument. So basically, because we were unlucky in the last two games, Ross Wilson is a wanker. You sir, are a clown. Not at all. All the pro Wilson lot on here seem to be saying, without anything to back it up, is that he was awesome and we'll miss him. Nobody has managed to actually point out any positive impact, directly or indirectly, he has on the football being played at the club. The usual excuse is that it'll take years to see the results, which is frankly a load of bollocks. We have gone backwards if anything and the 2 games against Norwich and Fulham are nothing to do with our current form. We are 2nd bottom over the last 6 and 4th bottom over the last 10 games, with the 4th worst goal difference over the whole season. Football is judged on results, we aren't doing well on that front. So, now apparently all he did was restructure our entire scouting network with his extensive contacts. Go on then... who are these wondrous players he managed to bring in? Edgar? Hudson? Peltier? Majewski? If this is all he did, I don't think we'll struggle without him on the wage bill. I'm sure we'll cope just as badly as we currently are.
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Post by royrace on Mar 26, 2015 12:23:03 GMT 1
And therein lies the issue. Our academy performance is (IMO) questionable in that the only measure of success should be the number of players that migrate to the first team. DH might also add that we sell them for decent brass to that measure of success but hey!! How can his work and recruitment of these players be classed as anything other than making it less of a punt than it used to be. The young players researched and recruited aren't breaking in, yet our mates up the A62 have kids of the same age established in ther first team and a regular stream of kids behind. And no offence, but I would have suggested Wood and Afobe and I aren't RW so that doesn't strengthen your arguement. Read my response to Space Hardware - it's not just the identifying, it's about the networking of his availability before anyone else - he was a day or two away from us before Leicester whacked down 25k p/w. Had we have had a better budget to satisfy him early, then he'd have been on the OS with a photo of him holding the shirt before they and the rest of the Championship would have been aware that he was free to move. Coady and Hogg are positive examples of hardly anyone knowing of their availability before we signed them. What people fail to grasp is that prior to him coming we were stabbing in the dark with players, we now have a network and infrastructure in place which rivals anyone in the Championship in terms of our UK recruitment. As Dean said of when we were promoted to the Champ, we only had a part time chief scout and not a lot else. Bryan Young the old chief scout used to work as a hospital porter 9-5 and have his phone switched off during that period. We've really developed since. The point you make is a good one re getting academy players into the first team, and yes I think there should be more stock in getting players into the first team than winning the u21's etc. Leeds are a funny one... Most of the kids breaking through now are between 18-21, but they've been at the club for over 10 years - back when Leeds were more of a force and had a top academy system. They are the tail end of what used to be very impressive conveyor belt, but that is now starting to stutter somewhat after Lewis Cook. Ross and the scouting teams job is to get them through the door, once they're here then it's up to the coaching staff and the first team manager - the players are there, the results and international call ups show it. The rest is up to Carss, Bunn, Lillis, Powell etc... The Chris Wood example above is an interesting one. He ultimately went to the most suitable and highest bidder after his name being circulated to all potential suitors. I would imagine that's what happens in 99% of transfers. I just don't buy the perception that Ross's contacts gets us first dabs on players, any agent managing his player and not finding him the best possible deal wouldn't last long. Its a win, win for player and agent when they get the best deal so that's what they'll do and rightly so. Obviously there are other factors such as location, rep of the club and its employees but like most things in life money talks. This is 2015, modern comms means it's very easy for any agent to drum up interest. I'm not saying RW hasn't done a lot of good things, I'm sure he has, I just don't really believe the hype, and there's a lot of it (hype) where he is concerned. Having heard him speak it doesn't surprise me that he is sought after and well thought of. I'm looking forward to seeing what the new fella can bring, as other posters have alluded to we have done our best transfer business by far before RW arrived at the club.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:34:04 GMT 1
If we'd beaten Norwich, and beaten Fulham as you could argue we probably deserved to, you'd have absolutely no basis for your line of argument. So basically, because we were unlucky in the last two games, Ross Wilson is a wanker. You sir, are a clown. Not at all. All the pro Wilson lot on here seem to be saying, without anything to back it up, is that he was awesome and we'll miss him. Nobody has managed to actually point out any positive impact, directly or indirectly, he has on the football being played at the club. The usual excuse is that it'll take years to see the results, which is frankly a load of bollocks. We have gone backwards if anything and the 2 games against Norwich and Fulham are nothing to do with our current form. We are 2nd bottom over the last 6 and 4th bottom over the last 10 games, with the 4th worst goal difference over the whole season. Football is judged on results, we aren't doing well on that front. So, now apparently all he did was restructure our entire scouting network with his extensive contacts. Go on then... who are these wondrous players he managed to bring in? Edgar? Hudson? Peltier? Majewski? If this is all he did, I don't think we'll struggle without him on the wage bill. I'm sure we'll cope just as badly as we currently are. If you're going to argue that it's unreasonable to expect the benefits of Wilson's role to take years, you may wish to come up with a more eloquent argument than it being 'a load of bollocks'. Wilson's role largely focussed on youth development and the implementation of long-term recruitment strategies. With this in mind, would you please explain how it is unreasonable for people to suggest that the benefits of his role will be felt in the longer term? It's quite clear that you always want to post from a minority or controversial standpoint, presumably to get a few bites. Just thought I'd let you know that it's boring as sin and to the detriment of this forum, not that I anticipate that it will make a difference to your contributions.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:45:34 GMT 1
Read my response to Space Hardware - it's not just the identifying, it's about the networking of his availability before anyone else - he was a day or two away from us before Leicester whacked down 25k p/w. Had we have had a better budget to satisfy him early, then he'd have been on the OS with a photo of him holding the shirt before they and the rest of the Championship would have been aware that he was free to move. Coady and Hogg are positive examples of hardly anyone knowing of their availability before we signed them. What people fail to grasp is that prior to him coming we were stabbing in the dark with players, we now have a network and infrastructure in place which rivals anyone in the Championship in terms of our UK recruitment. As Dean said of when we were promoted to the Champ, we only had a part time chief scout and not a lot else. Bryan Young the old chief scout used to work as a hospital porter 9-5 and have his phone switched off during that period. We've really developed since. The point you make is a good one re getting academy players into the first team, and yes I think there should be more stock in getting players into the first team than winning the u21's etc. Leeds are a funny one... Most of the kids breaking through now are between 18-21, but they've been at the club for over 10 years - back when Leeds were more of a force and had a top academy system. They are the tail end of what used to be very impressive conveyor belt, but that is now starting to stutter somewhat after Lewis Cook. Ross and the scouting teams job is to get them through the door, once they're here then it's up to the coaching staff and the first team manager - the players are there, the results and international call ups show it. The rest is up to Carss, Bunn, Lillis, Powell etc... The Chris Wood example above is an interesting one. He ultimately went to the most suitable and highest bidder after his name being circulated to all potential suitors. I would imagine that's what happens in 99% of transfers. I just don't buy the perception that Ross's contacts gets us first dabs on players, any agent managing his player and not finding him the best possible deal wouldn't last long. Its a win, win for player and agent when they get the best deal so that's what they'll do and rightly so. Obviously there are other factors such as location, rep of the club and its employees but like most things in life money talks. This is 2015, modern comms means it's very easy for any agent to drum up interest. I'm not saying RW hasn't done a lot of good things, I'm sure he has, I just don't really believe the hype, and there's a lot of it (hype) where he is concerned. Having heard him speak it doesn't surprise me that he is sought after and well thought of. I'm looking forward to seeing what the new fella can bring, as other posters have alluded to we have done our best transfer business by far before RW arrived at the club. Who's been hyping him? You accused me of saying he's brilliant earlier in the thread, I've done nothing of the sort. I think his role is important for a club like us (I don't think I'm in a position to say if someone else could do it better), it will surely take a few years to see if the younger players we've signed are good enough and without being involved behind the scenes it is virtually impossible to judge the day to day nature of what he's doing. Our senior signings recently have been poor (Peltier, Majewski, Paterson, Stead etc), however do our managers really need this sort of player scouting? Won't they already know about them? Obviously, I don't know and I'm not pretending to, I'd just like to think Robins was aware of them before hand and their strengths/weaknesses. However, I wouldn't expect them to have a good knowledge of the likes of Billing/Tronstadt/Kane. Is that not where Wilson and scouts come in? I just take exception to people showing a lack of understanding of his role and then declaring him shit/waste of a wage.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 12:59:28 GMT 1
Not at all. All the pro Wilson lot on here seem to be saying, without anything to back it up, is that he was awesome and we'll miss him. Nobody has managed to actually point out any positive impact, directly or indirectly, he has on the football being played at the club. The usual excuse is that it'll take years to see the results, which is frankly a load of bollocks. We have gone backwards if anything and the 2 games against Norwich and Fulham are nothing to do with our current form. We are 2nd bottom over the last 6 and 4th bottom over the last 10 games, with the 4th worst goal difference over the whole season. Football is judged on results, we aren't doing well on that front. So, now apparently all he did was restructure our entire scouting network with his extensive contacts. Go on then... who are these wondrous players he managed to bring in? Edgar? Hudson? Peltier? Majewski? If this is all he did, I don't think we'll struggle without him on the wage bill. I'm sure we'll cope just as badly as we currently are. If you're going to argue that it's unreasonable to expect the benefits of Wilson's role to take years, you may wish to come up with a more eloquent argument than it being 'a load of bollocks'. Wilson's role largely focussed on youth development and the implementation of long-term recruitment strategies. With this in mind, would you please explain how it is unreasonable for people to suggest that the benefits of his role will be felt in the longer term?
It's quite clear that you always want to post from a minority or controversial standpoint, presumably to get a few bites. Just thought I'd let you know that it's boring as sin and to the detriment of this forum, not that I anticipate that it will make a difference to your contributions. So, how long after he's gone and forgotten, can we start judging his success? How long has he been here so far, with no visible results? Surely the whole point of a forum is for people with differing points of view to debate ? Or would you prefer everyone to agree with your infallible opinion, like some of the other stalwarts on here? If everyone agreed with your view, this thread would be as " boring as sin and a detriment to this forum", with just the usual group of "yes" fans pretending everything is rosy at the club.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 13:02:35 GMT 1
Read my response to Space Hardware - it's not just the identifying, it's about the networking of his availability before anyone else - he was a day or two away from us before Leicester whacked down 25k p/w. Had we have had a better budget to satisfy him early, then he'd have been on the OS with a photo of him holding the shirt before they and the rest of the Championship would have been aware that he was free to move. Coady and Hogg are positive examples of hardly anyone knowing of their availability before we signed them. What people fail to grasp is that prior to him coming we were stabbing in the dark with players, we now have a network and infrastructure in place which rivals anyone in the Championship in terms of our UK recruitment. As Dean said of when we were promoted to the Champ, we only had a part time chief scout and not a lot else. Bryan Young the old chief scout used to work as a hospital porter 9-5 and have his phone switched off during that period. We've really developed since. The point you make is a good one re getting academy players into the first team, and yes I think there should be more stock in getting players into the first team than winning the u21's etc. Leeds are a funny one... Most of the kids breaking through now are between 18-21, but they've been at the club for over 10 years - back when Leeds were more of a force and had a top academy system. They are the tail end of what used to be very impressive conveyor belt, but that is now starting to stutter somewhat after Lewis Cook. Ross and the scouting teams job is to get them through the door, once they're here then it's up to the coaching staff and the first team manager - the players are there, the results and international call ups show it. The rest is up to Carss, Bunn, Lillis, Powell etc... The Chris Wood example above is an interesting one. He ultimately went to the most suitable and highest bidder after his name being circulated to all potential suitors. I would imagine that's what happens in 99% of transfers. I just don't buy the perception that Ross's contacts gets us first dabs on players, any agent managing his player and not finding him the best possible deal wouldn't last long. Its a win, win for player and agent when they get the best deal so that's what they'll do and rightly so. Obviously there are other factors such as location, rep of the club and its employees but like most things in life money talks. This is 2015, modern comms means it's very easy for any agent to drum up interest. I'm not saying RW hasn't done a lot of good things, I'm sure he has, I just don't really believe the hype, and there's a lot of it (hype) where he is concerned. Having heard him speak it doesn't surprise me that he is sought after and well thought of. I'm looking forward to seeing what the new fella can bring, as other posters have alluded to we have done our best transfer business by far before RW arrived at the club. I think that's a fair enough comment. Re some of the deals like Chris Wood for example, there would be a conversation within the WBA heirarchy about making Wood available. It's at this stage Ross got wind of it, and would get Hudds to instigate the move prior to the circulation or the agent even knowing. But yes, once the wheels are in motion the agent can delay the deal and then look to get a better deal - of which he did. However, if the club get in position and line everything up prior to the circulation including a good remuneration package, then we get it done under the radar - The Hudson deal was all verbally agreed prior to Fulham getting wind of it and trying to hijack at the last min, and I think it was Sheff Weds who were interested in Hogg, but by the time they were aware he was up at Canalside having everything done. Coady was another where Leeds tried to hijack it late on, but Hudds had already agreed on everything. That is obviously only 1 side of what he did, and as you've mentioned it can be scuppered by an awkward agent, but it's better than being in Sheff Weds position as we often were 99/100 before he came in.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 13:12:27 GMT 1
If you're going to argue that it's unreasonable to expect the benefits of Wilson's role to take years, you may wish to come up with a more eloquent argument than it being 'a load of bollocks'. Wilson's role largely focussed on youth development and the implementation of long-term recruitment strategies. With this in mind, would you please explain how it is unreasonable for people to suggest that the benefits of his role will be felt in the longer term?
It's quite clear that you always want to post from a minority or controversial standpoint, presumably to get a few bites. Just thought I'd let you know that it's boring as sin and to the detriment of this forum, not that I anticipate that it will make a difference to your contributions. So, how long after he's gone and forgotten, can we start judging his success? How long has he been here so far, with no visible results? Surely the whole point of a forum is for people with differing points of view to debate ? Or would you prefer everyone to agree with your infallible opinion, like some of the other stalwarts on here? If everyone agreed with your view, this thread would be as " boring as sin and a detriment to this forum", with just the usual group of "yes" fans pretending everything is rosy at the club. There are visible results. As many people have mentioned earlier on this thread, the vast improvement in the youth sides can partially attributed to Wilson. If the players that are currently in our youth system make their way through to our first team and perform well, it would be fair to say that Wilson has had a positive impact. If the players that are currently in our youth system fail to make the grade, there would be grounds to argue that Wilson has not had a positive impact. Surely none of that is unreasonable? ...Or as you so eloquently called it, bollocks? Of course the point of a forum is to debate. If you look a few posts up in this thread, you can see others reasonably debating. If I wanted to read arguments which consist solely of calling something "bollocks" to try and get a few bites, I'd go and follow a load of 14 year olds on Twitter. I clicked on this thread as I wanted to read debate surrounding the complex topic of youth development, unfortunately reasonable debate on this was interspersed with nonsensical and attention seeking remarks from some.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Mar 26, 2015 13:23:44 GMT 1
I was thinking the same, really hope he doesn't come on and have a look at this board!
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Post by thrice on Mar 26, 2015 13:28:18 GMT 1
At this rate it is going to be very difficult for the next operations director (if indeed we see one) to take credit for any upturn in fortunes should it come.
We have just got to trust that the board will have an appropriate method of measuring their success or failure.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 13:45:37 GMT 1
So, how long after he's gone and forgotten, can we start judging his success? How long has he been here so far, with no visible results? Surely the whole point of a forum is for people with differing points of view to debate ? Or would you prefer everyone to agree with your infallible opinion, like some of the other stalwarts on here? If everyone agreed with your view, this thread would be as " boring as sin and a detriment to this forum", with just the usual group of "yes" fans pretending everything is rosy at the club. There are visible results. As many people have mentioned earlier on this thread, the vast improvement in the youth sides can partially attributed to Wilson. If the players that are currently in our youth system make their way through to our first team and perform well, it would be fair to say that Wilson has had a positive impact. If the players that are currently in our youth system fail to make the grade, there would be grounds to argue that Wilson has not had a positive impact. Surely none of that is unreasonable? ... Or as you so eloquently called it, bollocks?Of course the point of a forum is to debate. If you look a few posts up in this thread, you can see others reasonably debating. If I wanted to read arguments which consist solely of calling something "bollocks" to try and get a few bites, I'd go and follow a load of 14 year olds on Twitter. I clicked on this thread as I wanted to read debate surrounding the complex topic of youth development, unfortunately reasonable debate on this was interspersed with nonsensical and attention seeking remarks from some. So, 8 posts in and the word "bollocks" upsets you? This forum may not be for you Ross.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 13:57:10 GMT 1
There are visible results. As many people have mentioned earlier on this thread, the vast improvement in the youth sides can partially attributed to Wilson. If the players that are currently in our youth system make their way through to our first team and perform well, it would be fair to say that Wilson has had a positive impact. If the players that are currently in our youth system fail to make the grade, there would be grounds to argue that Wilson has not had a positive impact. Surely none of that is unreasonable? ... Or as you so eloquently called it, bollocks?Of course the point of a forum is to debate. If you look a few posts up in this thread, you can see others reasonably debating. If I wanted to read arguments which consist solely of calling something "bollocks" to try and get a few bites, I'd go and follow a load of 14 year olds on Twitter. I clicked on this thread as I wanted to read debate surrounding the complex topic of youth development, unfortunately reasonable debate on this was interspersed with nonsensical and attention seeking remarks from some. So, 8 posts in and the word "bollocks" upsets you? This forum may not be for you Ross. That's genuinely your response? To imply I'm Ross Wilson? I don't think I suggested anywhere in my post that I was upset by the word bollocks. I would just like to come onto a forum to find reasoned debate, rather than juvenile attempts at winding people up. Are you going to take this opportunity to address the point of my post? Please explain how it is unreasonable for Ross Wilson to be judged in the future, given that a significant aspect of his role was to make long-term improvements to our squad?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 13:57:59 GMT 1
Sadly Sheriff, I doubt they will have the patience to actually read all that and digest it. I had the patience to read it, digest it and understand it. I respectfully disagree with it though. Respectfully or not, there is very little you can actually disagree with in Fresh Prince's post, as the majority of what he has written is totally factual, not just the result of his own opinion. Argue all you want, but in Football as in all things, there are opinions which are subject to an individuals interpretation, and there are things that are simply facts untainted by opinion. As far as this whole Ross Wilson matter goes, you and many others on this thread are simply wrong, regardless of what your opinion may be.
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Post by sudbury on Mar 26, 2015 14:19:33 GMT 1
Does anyone know how much time per week Wilson is working for Town and is he in Huddersfield or communicating via the internet or phone? And are we paying him a partial wage? Also, are we gaining any benefit from his final few weeks?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 14:41:32 GMT 1
Does anyone know how much time per week Wilson is working for Town and is he in Huddersfield or communicating via the internet or phone? And are we paying him a partial wage? Also, are we gaining any benefit from his final few weeks? Yes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 15:06:48 GMT 1
Are you going to take this opportunity to address the point of my post? Please explain how it is unreasonable for Ross Wilson to be judged in the future, given that a significant aspect of his role was to make long-term improvements to our squad? He's been here over 2 and a half years. Apparently his main achievement is the wonders he's worked within out scouting system. In this 2 and a half years, which of our signings are above and beyond what we would have achieved without him? Or is this another, it's too early to see the benefit "cobblers" excuses again? (I take it cobblers is OK?)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 16:48:50 GMT 1
Are you going to take this opportunity to address the point of my post? Please explain how it is unreasonable for Ross Wilson to be judged in the future, given that a significant aspect of his role was to make long-term improvements to our squad? He's been here over 2 and a half years. Apparently his main achievement is the wonders he's worked within out scouting system. In this 2 and a half years, which of our signings are above and beyond what we would have achieved without him? Or is this another, it's too early to see the benefit "cobblers" excuses again? (I take it cobblers is OK?) Cobblers is fine, though I'd prefer a reasoned response. Which, in fairness, you came close to providing this time. Though there's still no indication of why it is unfair for people to judge Wilson's success in the long-term. So far you've called this bollocks and cobblers (presumably in an attempt to ridicule me) but you have still not offered any justification as to why it's bollocks or cobblers. You're attacking me as though I'm saying Wilson has had a positive effect. I'm not, I don't think anyone really can say either way how he's done. Wilson's not a manager whose performance can easily be judged, he's in a role where impact is felt in the long term. Even then as he's a stage away from the first team, we're never going to know for definite how successful he has been. Wilson's legacy could flood the first team squad with excellent players, but we could have a manager too poor to utilise them. Alternatively, Wilson's legacy could produce a lot of average players, but a good manager may make a good side out of them. My post simply suggested that your argument against Wilson being judged in the long-term wasn't coherent. Given that you've still not provided a justification for why he shouldn't be judged in the long-term, your argument is still not coherent. So far, in the pro-Ross Wilson column we've got club officials and posters who know about youth development defending Wilson. As well as the endorsement of him being headhunted by a team renowned for their youth development and efficient player recruitment. Plus the fact that the youth teams are doing well and the argument that Wilson's impact on the first team should be judged in the long-term. Whereas in the anti-Ross Wilson column we've got you saying that pro-Ross Wilson arguments are 'bollocks' but offering no explanation as to why.
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Post by netterriers4 on Mar 26, 2015 16:52:03 GMT 1
What nonsense. There is no bigger fan of Dean than me, without him I dread to think where we would be. That doesn't mean I can't question something - and as I said elsewhere I work with development people on a regular basis and getting plum roles and contracts is as much about networking and promoting yourself in the right way as it is getting results as they are never at a job/company long enough to see if their "ideas" bear fruit. He didn't deliver change at Watford and was dispensed with by the new owners and DH clearly believed in him, and unlike others on here I don't believe Dean has flawed judgement. What I said before stands for me. It's all about a definition of success. Some of you consider a revamp of our scouts and sports science is enough, for me it was about players (academy and first team) and development of performances off the back of his changes. I can't see that, and I aren't talking about our form over the last few games, I am talking about his time here. The RW thing will divide opinions and it may take years to find out if he has made a positive difference - so how people can hold him as they do confuses me. There is a lot based on him letting the folk that post on here and social media who like to think they are on the inside being afforded time by a clearly affable chap who loves to talk football. Being a nice bloke doesn't make him good!!! What nonsense? Deans patience is running thin, take it or leave it, it's fact not opinion. You don't need to lecture me on Ross Wilson, read what Fresh prince has said because he knows his shit. Nonsense that anyone questioning RW impact is the whole reason Deans patience might be running thin. It's a tad more than just that. There seems to be an opinion that if you aren't convinced by his impact you don't understand his role. I understand it fully and repeat what I said before, the impact of his role hasn't had the desired results - the results are skewed for some by budget but it's the impact on "football operations" that hasn't won anything for me yet. More modern and robust - yes, 100%. More efficient and productive - not convinced. RW has done well to be poached by Saints no doubt. But there are plenty of people in every industry that get good jobs, do a few years and move on meaning a true measurement of their impact is impossible and for me his career so far is like that.
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Post by royrace on Mar 26, 2015 16:56:13 GMT 1
I had the patience to read it, digest it and understand it. I respectfully disagree with it though. Respectfully or not, there is very little you can actually disagree with in Fresh Prince's post, as the majority of what he has written is totally factual, not just the result of his own opinion. Argue all you want, but in Football as in all things, there are opinions which are subject to an individuals interpretation, and there are things that are simply facts untainted by opinion. As far as this whole Ross Wilson matter goes, you and many others on this thread are simply wrong, regardless of what your opinion may be. ROFL, best close the thread then Next time anyone on here wants to think for themselves maybe they should just cut out the middle man and ask you for the facts. You must have amazing insight considering the only thing you know is what you've read in the media
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 17:00:17 GMT 1
Cobblers is fine, though I'd prefer a reasoned response. Which, in fairness, you came close to providing this time. Though there's still no indication of why it is unfair for people to judge Wilson's success in the long-term. So far you've called this bollocks and cobblers (presumably in an attempt to ridicule me) but you have still not offered any justification as to why it's bollocks or cobblers.You're attacking me as though I'm saying Wilson has had a positive effect. I'm not, I don't think anyone really can say either way how he's done. Wilson's not a manager whose performance can easily be judged, he's in a role where impact is felt in the long term. Even then as he's a stage away from the first team, we're never going to know for definite how successful he has been. Wilson's legacy could flood the first team squad with excellent players, but we could have a manager too poor to utilise them. Alternatively, Wilson's legacy could produce a lot of average players, but a good manager may make a good side out of them. My post simply suggested that your argument against Wilson being judged in the long-term wasn't coherent. Given that you've still not provided a justification for why he shouldn't be judged in the long-term, your argument is still not coherent. So far, in the pro-Ross Wilson column we've got club officials and posters who know about youth development defending Wilson. As well as the endorsement of him being headhunted by a team renowned for their youth development and efficient player recruitment. Plus the fact that the youth teams are doing well and the argument that Wilson's impact on the first team should be judged in the long-term. Whereas in the anti-Ross Wilson column we've got you saying that pro-Ross Wilson arguments are 'bollocks' but offering no explanation as to why. Because over 2 and a half years should be long enough for us to see his influence on our transfers. It hasn't happened.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Mar 26, 2015 17:10:43 GMT 1
said before..
I bet Dean never estimated just how few people can waste so much money for so little...
Normal business has waste that you spend a lot of your time chasing and trying to plug the leaks etc, football is in a world of its own in spunking millions down the drain, whilst fuckwits go through the whole footballspeak scenarios and clichés..
maybe it is time he really put his foot down?? might help if he shifted the blame where it actually lies though???
maybe the cull in January was the start of it all?
Being told Dean IS VERY PISSED OFF with sections of the SUPPORT wont wash... he knows and we know where its going wrong and he knows and we know the contracts and some of the players and managers he approved were bad choices and bad deals..
I like to believe he went in with his eyes open and if he did then he has to live with it..
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 17:28:26 GMT 1
2 and a half years should be enough time, I agree. Some players like Coady for example were targeted over two years ago. Two and a half years is sod all in the long term.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 17:40:49 GMT 1
Does anyone know how much time per week Wilson is working for Town and is he in Huddersfield or communicating via the internet or phone? And are we paying him a partial wage? Also, are we gaining any benefit from his final few weeks?
He doesn't get paid anything, he's completing his Duke of Edinburgh Silver volunteering stint with Town, and then his expedition involves hitch hiking to Southampton.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Mar 26, 2015 17:43:36 GMT 1
2 and a half years should be enough time, I agree. Some players like Coady for example were targeted over two years ago. Two and a half years is sod all in the long term. Two and a half years of suffering.
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Post by royrace on Mar 26, 2015 17:43:49 GMT 1
2 and a half years should be enough time, I agree. A good insight would be looking at his previous clubs and the success they have reaped due to his input since he left but despite all the tub thumping on here I've not seen a single shred of such evidence there either. Watford are doing VERY well but AFAIK the Italians threw what he'd done out of the window certainly when it came to player recruitment but maybe I'm wrong and someone can enlighten me. Maybe their prozone etc is that good its propelled them to the top of the league and not even 4 managers in one season can stop them. They're certainly doing something right that's for sure but I'm not sure its down to RW..or is it?
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