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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Apr 22, 2017 23:00:27 GMT 1
No doubting that Fulham have been better than us over 180 minutes but they are where they are on merit. They're still below us and only just got into the top six. Some people on here have then down as a cross between Brazil, total football Holland, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern. Yes they're a decent attacking football side but they're the 6th best team in our division so far.Only because they came late to the party. They are the best team in the division by some distance presently. Final positions in the table count for nothing anyway, once the playoffs start. Besides, they'll probably finish third or fourth anyway. They completely outplayed Newcastle in the first game of the Championship season - surprised it's taken so long to reach the top 6.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2017 23:05:33 GMT 1
Had we beaten Fulham today they would be above Leeds on GD.
It's not that I fear Leeds more than Fulham but this place would be mental if there's a chance we'll play Leeds. So it's possible we might still look back at this and be thankful...
Aside of having to negotiate Reading or Wed, I'd prefer to play Fulham at Wembley. One off game, big expansive pitch/stadium.
Could be a great final...
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Post by detox on Apr 22, 2017 23:59:32 GMT 1
my first post match comment... We started brightly and for once released plenty of early balls down the wings instead of the usual playing it back to hefele and Schindler. At 1-0 up we gradually shrank into our shell, faffed around at the back dangerously far too often. We were massively exposed by a complete misunderstanding of who was doing what down our right side. Everyone round me was talking about Lolley being infield leaving the winger and left back free, Smith was often tucked in too far and Fulham exposed this with two identical goals from that position. Smith was having a go at Billing at one point so I'm not sure if he should have been down there covering or not.
tbh, no one seemed to know. We then give away a pen and at 1-3 everyone was fearing the worse. We stopped playing the early passes, and again played risky football at the back. Billing had a glancing header which was unlucky but then we mess up again by faffing around at the back, Schindler slips (again) having been given a ball he didn't want..and bang 1-4.
it is mind numbingly frustrating when we continue to play high risk football at the back when clearly the opponents are closing us down...lunacy even. At half time we were thinking this is going to be 7 or 8 but thankfully Fulham declared at 4. Even then , with Fulham now playing a very high line we never felt the need to try the chip over the top for someone to run on to.
In the hours that have passed since the final whistle i concluded tnat Lolley has no place in the starting line up again this season. Mooy HAS to go back to his regular position. Billing is too unreliable to risk in central midfield. Schindler looks knackered, as did Smith who completely lost his game .. Quanar...well, if ever we needed someone to hold the ball up like Wells can, this was it..but Wells was never brought on. VLP, too many wrong decisions, for all the special coaching he has had the guy is a wild card..unreliable. Hogg also lost his rag, having a right verbals with one of the their lads who was obviously giving it some at 1-4. The game was too quick for Hogg, and mostly passed him by down the wings.
yes, Fulham are decent enough, but we gave them all 4 goals through being unprepared and disorganised,the 4th goal you could see coming a mile off as we play tippy tappy on the edge of our own box.
despite Leeds losing and the fact we'll still likely make the play offs, having seen that Fulham team we haven't a cat in hells chance of progressing past them when/if we next meet.
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Post by ACW on Apr 23, 2017 0:07:47 GMT 1
Only because they came late to the party. They are the best team in the division by some distance presently. Final positions in the table count for nothing anyway, once the playoffs start. Besides, they'll probably finish third or fourth anyway. They completely outplayed Newcastle in the first game of the Championship season - surprised it's taken so long to reach the top 6. When they beat us at Craven Cottage it was only their second win at home since that opening day victory.
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Post by tvor on Apr 23, 2017 0:10:41 GMT 1
I'd be happy with the final table as it stands tonight. Knowing Reading, it wouldn't be a surprise if they turned over Fulham. If we could do the same to the Massive there might be a bit more availability on the East coast mainline.
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Post by willo on Apr 23, 2017 1:16:11 GMT 1
The opening 10 mins aside, there is no argument the better team won today. But 3 sloppy defensive errors from 3 normally reliable players cost us big time. Didn't think they threatened much 2nd half, a couple of efforts maybe(?) although the game was over by half-time. Some positives...we never gave up, Brown and Scanz got decent run-outs, crowd didn't go quiet. Certainly wouldn't want to face Fulham in the play-offs based on their performance today but if we were to, ideally in the final as in a one-off match you just never know. Least we all know what we're in for now should we face them again!
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Apr 23, 2017 1:44:43 GMT 1
I thought we would have been better with the defensive block today.
There was soooo much space for Fulham to exploit behind us today, their pace coupled with this space made them look really impressive.
If we denied them this crucial space for their pace to work I don't think they would have overrun us like they did repeatedly. Their pressing today was something we haven't met at home all season and whatever we did to try and impose ourselves on them by using our normal gung ho style, just had the opposite effect of playing into their hands.
Lolley is copping a lot of stick but clear errors by normal mainstays in Hogg and Schindler were more culpable directly for the goals. I've mentioned Mooy and Hogg as a base even as the Norwich win seemed to give some fans hope that Mooy could work in a '10' role.
Those that blinkeredly think we should just concentrate on ourselves and let the opposition worry about us should hopefully realise that this will NOT work when the opposition is better than us at our own game.
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Post by philincalifornia on Apr 23, 2017 1:51:48 GMT 1
I thought we would have been better with the defensive block today. There was soooo much space for Fulham to exploit behind us today, their pace coupled with this space made them look really impressive. If we denied them this crucial space for their pace to work I don't think they would have overrun us like they did repeatedly. Their pressing today was something we haven't met at home all season and whatever we did to try and impose ourselves on them by using our normal gung ho style, just had the opposite effect of playing into their hands. Lolley is copping a lot of stick but clear errors by normal mainstays in Hogg and Schindler were more culpable directly for the goals. I've mentioned Mooy and Hogg as a base even as the Norwich win seemed to give some fans hope that Mooy could work in a '10' role. Those that blinkeredly think we should just concentrate on ourselves and let the opposition worry about us should hopefully realise that this will NOT work when the opposition is better than us at our own game. Doc, I think Lolley's copping a lot of stick because the manager's kept the faith in him for a few games now and he hasn't stepped up in any. I even posted before the game that this was the time that he needed to do it but sadly nada. Hogg had some uncharacteristically bad moments, you're right, as did others. I was mildly amused in a black humour kind of way when Lolley won that corner just before he went off, by using a horrendously bad first touch that fooled Malone and the other defender.
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Apr 23, 2017 2:06:52 GMT 1
I thought we would have been better with the defensive block today. There was soooo much space for Fulham to exploit behind us today, their pace coupled with this space made them look really impressive. If we denied them this crucial space for their pace to work I don't think they would have overrun us like they did repeatedly. Their pressing today was something we haven't met at home all season and whatever we did to try and impose ourselves on them by using our normal gung ho style, just had the opposite effect of playing into their hands. Lolley is copping a lot of stick but clear errors by normal mainstays in Hogg and Schindler were more culpable directly for the goals. I've mentioned Mooy and Hogg as a base even as the Norwich win seemed to give some fans hope that Mooy could work in a '10' role. Those that blinkeredly think we should just concentrate on ourselves and let the opposition worry about us should hopefully realise that this will NOT work when the opposition is better than us at our own game. Doc, I think Lolley's copping a lot of stick because the manager's kept the faith in him for a few games now and he hasn't stepped up in any. I even posted before the game that this was the time that he needed to do it but sadly nada. Hogg had some uncharacteristically bad moments, you're right, as did others. I was mildly amused in a black humour kind of way when Lolley won that corner just before he went off, by using a horrendously bad first touch that fooled Malone and the other defender. If Kachunga was fit to start, surely it would have been in Lolley's position, so I naturally disagree. Town fans seem to pick on the fringe players (easy targets?) and state they are not good enough even when the mainstays were 'more' at fault for goals conceded.
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Post by hotshot on Apr 23, 2017 2:23:56 GMT 1
If we do play them in the play offs there will be less pressure on us in a way. We'd be seen as the underdog given the league results. I don't fear them as much as everyone is making out they are beatable. It's football anything can happen and I think we'll be ready for them.
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Post by philincalifornia on Apr 23, 2017 3:47:04 GMT 1
Doc, I think Lolley's copping a lot of stick because the manager's kept the faith in him for a few games now and he hasn't stepped up in any. I even posted before the game that this was the time that he needed to do it but sadly nada. Hogg had some uncharacteristically bad moments, you're right, as did others. I was mildly amused in a black humour kind of way when Lolley won that corner just before he went off, by using a horrendously bad first touch that fooled Malone and the other defender. If Kachunga was fit to start, surely it would have been in Lolley's position, so I naturally disagree. Town fans seem to pick on the fringe players (easy targets?) and state they are not good enough even when the mainstays were 'more' at fault for goals conceded. Well, let's keep it simple then. Lolley had a shit game.
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Post by morleyterrier on Apr 23, 2017 4:01:28 GMT 1
I cannot stand when we get done by a referee like the Wigan and Birmingham at home games when the opposition where shite.
Fulham though?, superb. They looked at least a yard quicker than us. Tactically they got it right and knew how to hurt us and having seen them twice this season (and not forgetting a 9-1 score line in their favour).
Yes, they are better than us.
We have to avoid this lot on the play-offs and hope they get put out in the other semi.
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Post by morleyterrier on Apr 23, 2017 4:23:17 GMT 1
If we do play them in the play offs there will be less pressure on us in a way. We'd be seen as the underdog given the league results. I don't fear them as much as everyone is making out they are beatable. It's football anything can happen and I think we'll be ready for them. I thought we would be ready for them yesterday.
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Post by lochnessterrier on Apr 23, 2017 5:16:22 GMT 1
A different day brings an entirely different ball game. Fulham were impressive no doubt, but I can remember we once shipped 10 at Maine Road and then went back a few weeks later and kept a clean sheet! It ain't over yet.....
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Post by stylishkids on Apr 23, 2017 7:14:51 GMT 1
Fulham have been beaten 10 times this since and are still below us in the table. There is a way to beat them. Even Zola figured that out at Birmingham! It's extremely concerning that we have been hammered twice over a game and half though by them (they declared at half time yesterday or it could have been worse). Reading got beat 5-0 away from home to them but still managed to find a way to beat them in the reverse. Get the tactics spot on and it is possible. The combination of Lolley drifting in to the centre and Billing no where to be seen infuriated me and definitely isn't the way to set out to beat them that's for sure.
And cut out the individual errors at the back. We could have easily got punished by Preston for these. Fortunately for us, Preston aren't as good as Fulham so we were able to get away with them that day. In the play offs if we keep doing them we have no chance whoever we play.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 8:08:41 GMT 1
Fulham were a better team than the one that we put out yesterday, particularly the forward line. However, I think we'd still give them a game with everyone fit.
The difference between:
Kachunga--Brown--VLP -----------Wells------------
And
Lolley--Mooy--VLP -------Quaner-------
Can't be overstated. Such a shame that Palmer is out for the season, put him there instead of VLP and we look frightening.
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Post by richyhtfc on Apr 23, 2017 8:48:42 GMT 1
Fulham were a better team than the one that we put out yesterday, particularly the forward line. However, I think we'd still give them a game with everyone fit. The difference between: Kachunga--Brown--VLP -----------Wells------------ And Lolley--Mooy--VLP -------Quaner------- Can't be overstated. Such a shame that Palmer is out for the season, put him there instead of VLP and we look frightening. VLP is starting to get on my tits, but everyone had a bad game, I agree a fully fit team would do much better, but that is the thing, all teams have they injury problems, and yesterday to me just shows how much we have been over achieving with the squad we have.
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Post by wtd on Apr 23, 2017 8:52:26 GMT 1
Fulham were a better team than the one that we put out yesterday, particularly the forward line. However, I think we'd still give them a game with everyone fit. The difference between: Kachunga--Brown--VLP -----------Wells------------ And Lolley--Mooy--VLP -------Quaner------- Can't be overstated. Such a shame that Palmer is out for the season, put him there instead of VLP and we look frightening. Struggling to see what Wells brings to the party over Quaner. Goals, pace, movement, distribution, presence, even aerial ability? Not really. They're an 'either or' for me, with Quaner just tipping it.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Apr 23, 2017 8:58:44 GMT 1
The chance when VLP hit it about 100 ft over the bar in first half, He ha no composure at all.
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Post by richyhtfc on Apr 23, 2017 9:09:52 GMT 1
Struggling to see what Wells brings to the party over Quaner. Goals, pace, movement, distribution, presence, even aerial ability? Not really. They're an 'either or' for me, with Quaner just tipping it. Not when brown is in team, wells for me seems to play much better.
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 23, 2017 9:41:20 GMT 1
Fulham were a better team than the one that we put out yesterday, particularly the forward line. However, I think we'd still give them a game with everyone fit. The difference between: Kachunga--Brown--VLP -----------Wells------------ And Lolley--Mooy--VLP -------Quaner------- Can't be overstated. Such a shame that Palmer is out for the season, put him there instead of VLP and we look frightening. Struggling to see what Wells brings to the party over Quaner. Goals, pace, movement, distribution, presence, even aerial ability? Not really. They're an 'either or' for me, with Quaner just tipping it. To be fair though, you are his agent mate! ( I agree with you BTW. Quaner seems to have a little goal threat just lately, which isn't ideal but is still a little more than Wells )
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 9:45:00 GMT 1
Fulham are a top side in great form, they didn't need any help from us but we gave them plenty. I'm over it already and was a damn site more pissed off after losing at home to Wigan and Burton, still lots to play for, UTT.
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Post by Metch on Apr 23, 2017 9:51:47 GMT 1
Maybe it's better to hit the play offs as a perceived busted flush than finishing a clear 3rd with a sense of entitlement to promotion. I dunno, just trying to put a positive spin on yesterday.
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Post by fredcarno1 on Apr 23, 2017 9:53:45 GMT 1
Fair play to Fulham they were excellent yesterday, Playoffs though are a different animal. Wouldn't be inconceivable to see Wednesday or Reading turn them over in a niggly game that they turn into a battle rather than a decent game of football. Fulham are the best footballing side I've seen this season but the fact they've lost 10 times would suggest there is more than 1 way to skin a cat because as Town have proved they are difficult to match at 'their own game'. Wednesday would definately attempt to turn a game against them into a battle and cheat fest. You'd have to fancy Fulham out of everybody at the minute but it's 3 cup finals to win the playoffs and anything could happen.
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Post by hypotenuse on Apr 23, 2017 9:56:53 GMT 1
Fulham are an outstanding team but far from unbeatable. A very mediocre Derby side annihilated them a few weeks back. Fulham were an embarrassment then.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 10:04:26 GMT 1
Struggling to see what Wells brings to the party over Quaner. Goals, pace, movement, distribution, presence, even aerial ability? Not really. They're an 'either or' for me, with Quaner just tipping it. Not when brown is in team, wells for me seems to play much better. Exactly, Well's movement works much better with Izzy's passing.
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Post by ram on Apr 23, 2017 10:11:21 GMT 1
As I sat at home watching Sky,Jeff Stelling kept going to Kammy every time Fulham scored 1st half. Was frustrating not knowing how we played in the 2nd as he never went to the Game at all for updates. Obviously we did summat right as they didn't score again,or were they embarrassed how easy it was?{or are we luring them into a false sense of security?}Smiley winky thing.
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Post by wtd on Apr 23, 2017 10:17:18 GMT 1
Struggling to see what Wells brings to the party over Quaner. Goals, pace, movement, distribution, presence, even aerial ability? Not really. They're an 'either or' for me, with Quaner just tipping it. To be fair though, you are his agent mate! ( I agree with you BTW. Quaner seems to have a little goal threat just lately, which isn't ideal but is still a little more than Wells ) Feel like I'm having to defend him unnecessarily, I suppose. He's no world-beater, but I think his ungainliness attracts unwarranted criticism, that's all. So easy to just look at him and decide he's Bamby on ice and therefore won't be/can't be any good or even of any use to us. No skin of my nose if others think he's shit. They're entitled to their opinion. I've said my piece and know what I think. I'll leave it there.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Apr 23, 2017 10:49:02 GMT 1
They completely outplayed Newcastle in the first game of the Championship season - surprised it's taken so long to reach the top 6. When they beat us at Craven Cottage it was only their second win at home since that opening day victory. Lets hope they remember that in the play offs!
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Post by Headless Chicken on Apr 23, 2017 11:04:00 GMT 1
Fulham play the way Wagner would love us to play FACT We play too narrow down one side , they always kept the full back and winger out on the opposite side,so always had an out ball, when their press won the ball back which in turn gives them a fast breakaway. When Schindler or Lowe had the ball they put a man to close the angle down so the ball couldn't go to heff and Visa Versa with heff and smith , that's why smith had to play it long a lot They played really good pass and move football Think their speed of everything was so much better than us. Touch, pass, movement, thought..the lot. Our play is generally a bit slow and predictable but today more so than ever. In the end we faffed about with it, they closed us down and we end up lumping it ( or we end up making a cock up and handing them a chance) Mooys a great player but hes the main culprit IMO. Hes the one who sets the tone to our game- how slow and ponderous it is going to be. Sideways one way, then sideways the other, then back...over and over again. Whereas Fulham.., get the ball , quick pass, quick pass, quick pass and they're in. We actually did the same a few times and got in some good positions. But IMO theres just way too much slow arseing around with it whilst the opposition sort themselves out. I've said that before about Mooy; I think for someone as talented as him, he plays it a bit safe and is too quick to play a simple straight back or sideways. Maybe playing so much of the season in a deeper role has made him more risk averse and not quite as incisive?
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