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Post by griffa on Apr 23, 2017 11:23:29 GMT 1
my first post match comment... We started brightly and for once released plenty of early balls down the wings instead of the usual playing it back to hefele and Schindler. At 1-0 up we gradually shrank into our shell, faffed around at the back dangerously far too often. We were massively exposed by a complete misunderstanding of who was doing what down our right side. Everyone round me was talking about Lolley being infield leaving the winger and left back free, Smith was often tucked in too far and Fulham exposed this with two identical goals from that position. Smith was having a go at Billing at one point so I'm not sure if he should have been down there covering or not. tbh, no one seemed to know. We then give away a pen and at 1-3 everyone was fearing the worse. We stopped playing the early passes, and again played risky football at the back. Billing had a glancing header which was unlucky but then we mess up again by faffing around at the back, Schindler slips (again) having been given a ball he didn't want..and bang 1-4. it is mind numbingly frustrating when we continue to play high risk football at the back when clearly the opponents are closing us down...lunacy even. At half time we were thinking this is going to be 7 or 8 but thankfully Fulham declared at 4. Even then , with Fulham now playing a very high line we never felt the need to try the chip over the top for someone to run on to. In the hours that have passed since the final whistle i concluded tnat Lolley has no place in the starting line up again this season. Mooy HAS to go back to his regular position. Billing is too unreliable to risk in central midfield. Schindler looks knackered, as did Smith who completely lost his game .. Quanar...well, if ever we needed someone to hold the ball up like Wells can, this was it..but Wells was never brought on. VLP, too many wrong decisions, for all the special coaching he has had the guy is a wild card..unreliable. Hogg also lost his rag, having a right verbals with one of the their lads who was obviously giving it some at 1-4. The game was too quick for Hogg, and mostly passed him by down the wings. yes, Fulham are decent enough, but we gave them all 4 goals through being unprepared and disorganised,the 4th goal you could see coming a mile off as we play tippy tappy on the edge of our own box. despite Leeds losing and the fact we'll still likely make the play offs, having seen that Fulham team we haven't a cat in hells chance of progressing past them when/if we next meet. Agree with most of your comments re yesterdays game. If we qualify for the playoffs, we must learn from yesterdays defeat. Going a goal up, after 4 minutes, should have enbled us to score 2/3 goals! After approx 10 minutes, we started to dwell on the ball, as a result of this 4 individuall errors, created mayhem! We really need to regroup, don't select Joe Lolley, VLP, Brown in for Billing, Moyes to partner Hogg. All is not lost, we need calm heads, good team selection & good tactics. We must approach each game on merit, Fulham are beatable, but not if we play, like we did for 80 minutes yesterday, we still have a great chance, despite yesterdays drubbing, of promotion to EPL - UTT.
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crux
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Post by crux on Apr 23, 2017 11:35:49 GMT 1
Struggling to see what Wells brings to the party over Quaner. Goals, pace, movement, distribution, presence, even aerial ability? Not really. They're an 'either or' for me, with Quaner just tipping it. To be fair though, you are his agent mate! ( I agree with you BTW. Quaner seems to have a little goal threat just lately, which isn't ideal but is still a little more than Wells ) Quaner was mom by miles, even though the only decent pass he had for any chance on goal was from a Fulham defender. When I saw it live I thought he should have scored, but seeing the 'highlights' on C5 it was a great save by the keeper. My take on the game is similar to the views of most others, too many individual mistakes, Lolley had a nightmare and needs 'resting' for his own sake. However my biggest worry was the inept performance by the manager and coaching staff. Wagner has got most things right this season and is doing a fantastic job overall, but why change the Hogg/Mooy combination which has been superb all season when you don't have to. If you want to play Billing, play him as the 'no 10' as he can run with the ball, has a decent shot and is a threat in the air. Plus when he does make his misplaced pass he's further from our own goal. With Lolley, Mooy and VLP as the attacking three behind Quaner, we have almost no chance of getting people beyond Quaner into the penalty area. I know Kachunga would have played instead of Lolley if he was fit, but when he wasn't I'd have played Payne as the 'no 10' and left Mooy in his best position. The more worrying thing was that when Wagner does get caught out tactically he usually comes up with a plan to sort it out. However we didn't have a plan to cope with Fulham at all and we looked as clueless after 180 minutes of both games as we did after 5 minutes. Yes, most of the goals yesterday were individual mistakes but other than the VLP/Lowe heading fiasco, they were forced errors because of the pressing that Fulham did. We would have been better employing the tactics used at Derby - hoof the ball to the other end of the pitch and get everybody behind the ball. At least there would have been less space for Fulham to exploit. Another point that has been annoying me all season and I might as well get it out of my system now In the warm up before we start every match, the practise 'shooting' is so half-arsed and inept that it's no surprise when we get a shooting chance in the match it's normally miles off target. They need to practise scoring and not just kicking it in the general direction of the goal. Other than that I'm perfectly happy I suspect we will be in the play-offs and if we have to play Fulham so be it, however I'd prefer a one off in the final.
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 23, 2017 15:12:06 GMT 1
To be fair though, you are his agent mate! ( I agree with you BTW. Quaner seems to have a little goal threat just lately, which isn't ideal but is still a little more than Wells ) Quaner was mom by miles, even though the only decent pass he had for any chance on goal was from a Fulham defender. When I saw it live I thought he should have scored, but seeing the 'highlights' on C5 it was a great save by the keeper. My take on the game is similar to the views of most others, too many individual mistakes, Lolley had a nightmare and needs 'resting' for his own sake. However my biggest worry was the inept performance by the manager and coaching staff. Wagner has got most things right this season and is doing a fantastic job overall, but why change the Hogg/Mooy combination which has been superb all season when you don't have to. If you want to play Billing, play him as the 'no 10' as he can run with the ball, has a decent shot and is a threat in the air. Plus when he does make his misplaced pass he's further from our own goal. With Lolley, Mooy and VLP as the attacking three behind Quaner, we have almost no chance of getting people beyond Quaner into the penalty area. I know Kachunga would have played instead of Lolley if he was fit, but when he wasn't I'd have played Payne as the 'no 10' and left Mooy in his best position. The more worrying thing was that when Wagner does get caught out tactically he usually comes up with a plan to sort it out. However we didn't have a plan to cope with Fulham at all and we looked as clueless after 180 minutes of both games as we did after 5 minutes. Yes, most of the goals yesterday were individual mistakes but other than the VLP/Lowe heading fiasco, they were forced errors because of the pressing that Fulham did. We would have been better employing the tactics used at Derby - hoof the ball to the other end of the pitch and get everybody behind the ball. At least there would have been less space for Fulham to exploit. Another point that has been annoying me all season and I might as well get it out of my system now In the warm up before we start every match, the practise 'shooting' is so half-arsed and inept that it's no surprise when we get a shooting chance in the match it's normally miles off target. They need to practise scoring and not just kicking it in the general direction of the goal. Other than that I'm perfectly happy I suspect we will be in the play-offs and if we have to play Fulham so be it, however I'd prefer a one off in the final. Think thats way too harsh. he did change the team around soon after half time and 2nd half finished 0-0, with Town doing most of the pressing. Fair enough its probably true Fulham were just seeing it out and had taken their foot off the gas, but even in the first half I didn't see them being 4-1 up as a tactical thing you can lay at wagners feet. 1.They were very clinical with the chances they had. 2.We weren't clinical with the chances we had ( and we created some good ones) 3. We made horrendous individual errors. None of those 3 things are anything wagner could either account for or change IMO. I think he picked the best side he could ( though id agree with you about Billing and Mooy switching) but the players let him down. This team hasn't done that very often, so theyve earned a bit of slack.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 16:12:13 GMT 1
Maybe Fulham are a better team than us but there's no certainty of them overtaking us with a local derby against Brentford at home and Wednesday away to come for them...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 16:29:54 GMT 1
Quaner was mom by miles, even though the only decent pass he had for any chance on goal was from a Fulham defender. When I saw it live I thought he should have scored, but seeing the 'highlights' on C5 it was a great save by the keeper. My take on the game is similar to the views of most others, too many individual mistakes, Lolley had a nightmare and needs 'resting' for his own sake. However my biggest worry was the inept performance by the manager and coaching staff. Wagner has got most things right this season and is doing a fantastic job overall, but why change the Hogg/Mooy combination which has been superb all season when you don't have to. If you want to play Billing, play him as the 'no 10' as he can run with the ball, has a decent shot and is a threat in the air. Plus when he does make his misplaced pass he's further from our own goal. With Lolley, Mooy and VLP as the attacking three behind Quaner, we have almost no chance of getting people beyond Quaner into the penalty area. I know Kachunga would have played instead of Lolley if he was fit, but when he wasn't I'd have played Payne as the 'no 10' and left Mooy in his best position. The more worrying thing was that when Wagner does get caught out tactically he usually comes up with a plan to sort it out. However we didn't have a plan to cope with Fulham at all and we looked as clueless after 180 minutes of both games as we did after 5 minutes. Yes, most of the goals yesterday were individual mistakes but other than the VLP/Lowe heading fiasco, they were forced errors because of the pressing that Fulham did. We would have been better employing the tactics used at Derby - hoof the ball to the other end of the pitch and get everybody behind the ball. At least there would have been less space for Fulham to exploit. Another point that has been annoying me all season and I might as well get it out of my system now In the warm up before we start every match, the practise 'shooting' is so half-arsed and inept that it's no surprise when we get a shooting chance in the match it's normally miles off target. They need to practise scoring and not just kicking it in the general direction of the goal. Other than that I'm perfectly happy I suspect we will be in the play-offs and if we have to play Fulham so be it, however I'd prefer a one off in the final. Think thats way too harsh. he did change the team around soon after half time and 2nd half finished 0-0, with Town doing most of the pressing. Fair enough its probably true Fulham were just seeing it out and had taken their foot off the gas, but even in the first half I didn't see them being 4-1 up as a tactical thing you can lay at wagners feet. 1.They were very clinical with the chances they had. 2.We weren't clinical with the chances we had ( and we created some good ones) 3. We made horrendous individual errors. None of those 3 things are anything wagner could either account for or change IMO. I think he picked the best side he could ( though id agree with you about Billing and Mooy switching) but the players let him down. This team hasn't done that very often, so theyve earned a bit of slack. He didn't pick the best side he could because Lolley wouldn't have been in it had he done so
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 23, 2017 18:32:36 GMT 1
Who else could he have played?
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Post by upthetown on Apr 23, 2017 18:33:52 GMT 1
Who else could he have played? Scanz looked far sharper in his cameo.
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 23, 2017 18:40:48 GMT 1
Scanz often does when he comes on as a sub with 30 mins to go. He almost always looks really poor when he starts though. A cameo seems all hes capable of and after so long out, I imagine hed have been breathing out of his backside by half time even more than he usually is.
Wagner sees these guys in training every day, so will have decided who starts from that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 18:48:55 GMT 1
Our best chance against Fulham in the play offs would be a 3 5 1 1 as it would make us more solid and cut off a lot of what they do well
Back 3 of Cranie, Schindler and Hefele. Lowe and Smith wing backs. 3 in the middle of Mooy, Hogg and Brown. Kachunga roaming around being Quaner or Wells
A lot of teams are using this formation effectively at the moment. We tried it once and didn't quite get it right at Cardiff but we've got no chance against them if we play our usual formation as shown by the 9 goals conceded
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Post by andyeastleake on Apr 23, 2017 18:56:44 GMT 1
they are better than us. they have scored 9 goals against us in two games. anyone who suggests we are as good as they are is quite frankly deluded. It would be hard to construct an argument after yesterday that Town are as good as Fulham and as WTD has indicated their last four results have been very impressive. However IMHO the more likely way to be deluded about yesterday would be to assume Fulham perform like that every game and that our Senior players are likely to make as many simple basic errors as they did yesterday. Fulham's three games prior to the four mentioned by WTD included the following two results 4th April 2017 Derby County 4 Fulham 2
18th March 2017 Fulham 1 Wolverhampton 3
Hard to imagine they were as impressive as yesterday in those games. It's easier to make a case that over the course of the season we've been as good as Fulham (just take a look at the league table). Out of interest, what would be Town's probability of sucess if we meet Fulham in the play-offs. Your post implies very slim. The Bookmaking industry's odds still suggest the liklihood of us winning promotion is higher than 25%. More likely than if the winning team was just drawn out a hat (suggesting our chances against Fulham would be higher than you imply).
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Post by waltzingthecowshed on Apr 23, 2017 19:02:55 GMT 1
Our best chance against Fulham in the play offs would be a 3 5 1 1 as it would make us more solid and cut off a lot of what they do well Back 3 of Cranie, Schindler and Hefele. Lowe and Smith wing backs. 3 in the middle of Mooy, Hogg and Brown. Kachunga roaming around being Quaner or WellsA lot of teams are using this formation effectively at the moment. We tried it once and didn't quite get it right at Cardiff but we've got no chance against them if we play our usual formation as shown by the 9 goals conceded would this stop the likes of Aluko and Sessengong getting down he channels which is always the failings of such a system ? Its worth a shot i agree we wont win playing the Wagner system imo
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 19:06:02 GMT 1
Our best chance against Fulham in the play offs would be a 3 5 1 1 as it would make us more solid and cut off a lot of what they do well Back 3 of Cranie, Schindler and Hefele. Lowe and Smith wing backs. 3 in the middle of Mooy, Hogg and Brown. Kachunga roaming around being Quaner or WellsA lot of teams are using this formation effectively at the moment. We tried it once and didn't quite get it right at Cardiff but we've got no chance against them if we play our usual formation as shown by the 9 goals conceded would this stop the likes of Aluko and Sessengong getting down he channels which is always the failings of such a system ? Its worth a shot i agree we wont win playing the Wagner system imo It would do if we played it correctly. We wouldn't be quite as dynamic going forward but we haven't been of late anyway
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2017 20:02:14 GMT 1
they are better than us. they have scored 9 goals against us in two games. anyone who suggests we are as good as they are is quite frankly deluded. It would be hard to construct an argument after yesterday that Town are as good as Fulham and as WTD has indicated their last four results have been very impressive. However IMHO the more likely way to be deluded about yesterday would be to assume Fulham perform like that every game and that our Senior players are likely to make as many simple basic errors as they did yesterday. Fulham's three games prior to the four mentioned by WTD included the following two results 4th April 2017 Derby County 4 Fulham 2
18th March 2017 Fulham 1 Wolverhampton 3
Hard to imagine they were as impressive as yesterday in those games. It's easier to make a case that over the course of the season we've been as good as Fulham (just take a look at the league table). Out of interest, what would be Town's probability of sucess if we meet Fulham in the play-offs. Your post implies very slim. The Bookmaking industry's odds still suggest the liklihood of us winning promotion is higher than 25%. More likely than if the winning team was just drawn out a hat (suggesting our chances against Fulham would be higher than you imply). I don't imply anything. I'm simply stating that our of all the sides i'd rather avoid fulham because they play a similar style of football to us, and they are very good at it. Both times we have played them this seasoon we have been given the run around. That's not down to 'luck'. We play to their strengths.
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