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Post by BLUE&WHITE on Dec 12, 2017 23:18:58 GMT 1
with watford losing tonight against palace, do we go there to win of do we go there to get the draw, baring in mind watford will be missing a couple of key players? answers on a postcard marked 'go for the draw' Looks like Richarlison got injured. We have to go for it And cleverly out too!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 23:18:58 GMT 1
Chelsea bothered by the cold was the claim
Looked like it affected our lads more
Our average formation on BT is horrific, only Mounie just out of our half. Gerrard laying in to our approach of standing off far too much
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Post by impact on Dec 12, 2017 23:21:00 GMT 1
Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Mounié has lost the shirt tonight. He just doesn't want to put the hard yards in. When you're on top and have most of the ball you can get away with it. But with games like tonight you cannot carry players like that. but as i said above, he aint that kind of player. you might say he's lazy even, but he got no service. LDP is the kind of player you want playing if you want a bit of physicality up front, but even he gets starved of service. we play way way too deep. the huge gap between our midfield and our lone striker, you could put ronaldo in there and we'd still fail to score many. Sorry but him not being that type of player isn't an excuse. He's in a squad where every single player has to work hard. If he doesn't want to he needs to sit on the bench. Right now he's a luxury to use when we know we're going to see most of the ball. I don't expect him to start again until Boxing Day at the earliest.
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Post by Up the Duff. on Dec 12, 2017 23:25:53 GMT 1
Wagner doesn’t seem too concerned and happy with second half. When a game is won the team who is cruising will often lay off and tonight I think he has over looked that fact.
Hopefully we will have van la parra and Palmer fit and firing on Saturday.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Dec 12, 2017 23:29:19 GMT 1
Shock King perfomance They did a big smelly job on us Class told tonight Was Wagner taking piss putting Deano on ?
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Post by space hardware on Dec 12, 2017 23:30:15 GMT 1
Chelsea bothered by the cold was the claim Looked like it affected our lads more Our average formation on BT is horrific, only Mounie just out of our half. Gerrard laying in to our approach of standing off far too much Two minutes into the second half Mounié chased the ball into their box, and turned around to see Whitehead shouting at him to get back to the halfway line. Summed up our tactics tonight.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 23:30:50 GMT 1
Thanks for your articulate contributions as ever Nick...
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Dec 12, 2017 23:39:08 GMT 1
Thanks for your articulate contributions as ever Nick... It's a good summary.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2017 23:39:24 GMT 1
I'm enjoying the rollercoaster so far, pretty sure 99.9% of you are on the same journey as I am....
Who knows where it will end - that's the benefit of being a no-hoper of a club in and amongst these clubs who don't bat an eyelid against paying each of their star players he equivalent of a decent lottery win every yr...
We are in great shape folks, move on, Sat is another game where we need to try and grind out some points, tonight is gone, it was routine for Chelsea... On the other hand, we learn something every single step of this journey...
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Post by yorkshiretripod on Dec 12, 2017 23:39:43 GMT 1
but as i said above, he aint that kind of player. you might say he's lazy even, but he got no service. LDP is the kind of player you want playing if you want a bit of physicality up front, but even he gets starved of service. we play way way too deep. the huge gap between our midfield and our lone striker, you could put ronaldo in there and we'd still fail to score many. Sorry but him not being that type of player isn't an excuse. He's in a squad where every single player has to work hard. If he doesn't want to he needs to sit on the bench. Right now he's a luxury to use when we know we're going to see most of the ball. I don't expect him to start again until Boxing Day at the earliest. I appreciate the goals he's got, but I get the impression at Montpellier he was feeding off more than just scraps. He doesn't work anywhere near as hard as De Poitre, he won't endear himself to the majority of Town fans with such an obvious lack of willingness to close down every lost cause, of course, if he's been instructed not to, he's doing exactly what he should be doing.
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Post by impact on Dec 12, 2017 23:42:53 GMT 1
I'm not entirely sure how we tried everything. Until the last 2 minutes that is.
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Post by Ibiza Town on Dec 12, 2017 23:46:49 GMT 1
can someone on the playing staff take a note that VLP wins every single header that comes to him (against any team), we don't ever seem take advantage of it
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k1man999
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Post by k1man999 on Dec 12, 2017 23:50:14 GMT 1
Sorry but him not being that type of player isn't an excuse. He's in a squad where every single player has to work hard. If he doesn't want to he needs to sit on the bench. Right now he's a luxury to use when we know we're going to see most of the ball. I don't expect him to start again until Boxing Day at the earliest. I appreciate the goals he's got, but I get the impression at Montpellier he was feeding off more than just scraps. He doesn't work anywhere near as hard as De Poitre, he won't endear himself to the majority of Town fans with such an obvious willingness to close down every lost cause, of course, if he's been instructed not to, he's doing exactly what he should be doing. He has pace he should be looking at making runs in behind but he doesn't there is no movement if he did mooy etc might have something to ping a ball through for.
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Post by billy143 on Dec 12, 2017 23:54:47 GMT 1
How on earth did the sponsors give MOM to Mooy. Probably watched the game through bottom of a wine glass.
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Post by ACW on Dec 13, 2017 0:01:22 GMT 1
How on earth did the sponsors give MOM to Mooy. Probably watched the game through bottom of a wine glass. I think they were probably struggling to choose one and chose him because he is usually our best player. Not sure who I would have given it to either.
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Post by Convictatthemac on Dec 13, 2017 0:07:36 GMT 1
but as i said above, he aint that kind of player. you might say he's lazy even, but he got no service. LDP is the kind of player you want playing if you want a bit of physicality up front, but even he gets starved of service. we play way way too deep. the huge gap between our midfield and our lone striker, you could put ronaldo in there and we'd still fail to score many. Sorry but him not being that type of player isn't an excuse. He's in a squad where every single player has to work hard. If he doesn't want to he needs to sit on the bench. Right now he's a luxury to use when we know we're going to see most of the ball. I don't expect him to start again until Boxing Day at the earliest. That would be a massive mistake. Mounié worked his ass off against Brighton when he knew he had back up in the press. Tonight he would have just ran around like a headless chook pressing for the same result except he would have been totally exhausted. The problem doesn't lie at the front, it lies in the tactics. I'd rather die on my feet than die on my knees. Showing way too much respect to the opposition just because we got taken apart 4-0 by Spurs and then we got one result against Man U. The rest of the games we have played defensively we have got nought. The reason that we conceded the second was because we showed no sign of going forward and Chelsea knew they could press high up the pitch to force a mistake, which they did. Back to attacking, winning and still copping the odd flogging.
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Post by impact on Dec 13, 2017 0:10:17 GMT 1
Sorry but him not being that type of player isn't an excuse. He's in a squad where every single player has to work hard. If he doesn't want to he needs to sit on the bench. Right now he's a luxury to use when we know we're going to see most of the ball. I don't expect him to start again until Boxing Day at the earliest. That would be a massive mistake. Mounié worked his ass off against Brighton when he knew he had back up in the press. Tonight he would have just ran around like a headless chook pressing for the same result except he would have been totally exhausted. The problem doesn't lie at the front, it lies in the tactics. I'd rather die on my feet than die on my knees. Showing way too much respect to the opposition just because we got taken apart 4-0 by Spurs and then we got one result against Man U. The rest of the games we have played defensively we have got nought. The reason that we conceded the second was because we showed no sign of going forward and Chelsea knew they could press high up the pitch to force a mistake, which they did. Back to attacking, winning and still copping the odd flogging. Did he work his ass off? I'd challenge that. He didn't need to because of how dominant we were - if fact not many did. In that situation it's fine, but when we're up against it it sticks right out.
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Post by Convictatthemac on Dec 13, 2017 0:14:21 GMT 1
That would be a massive mistake. Mounié worked his ass off against Brighton when he knew he had back up in the press. Tonight he would have just ran around like a headless chook pressing for the same result except he would have been totally exhausted. The problem doesn't lie at the front, it lies in the tactics. I'd rather die on my feet than die on my knees. Showing way too much respect to the opposition just because we got taken apart 4-0 by Spurs and then we got one result against Man U. The rest of the games we have played defensively we have got nought. The reason that we conceded the second was because we showed no sign of going forward and Chelsea knew they could press high up the pitch to force a mistake, which they did. Back to attacking, winning and still copping the odd flogging. Did he work his ass off? I'd challenge that. He didn't need to because of how dominant we were - if fact not many did. In that situation it's fine, but when we're up against it it sticks right out. most forwards do that to conserve the energy to get that 1% extra over the 3 fullbacks marking them. Singling out Mounié is like singling out a single bad ref decision when you lose 8-0, it's not the problem.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Dec 13, 2017 0:16:43 GMT 1
Did he work his ass off? I'd challenge that. He didn't need to because of how dominant we were - if fact not many did. In that situation it's fine, but when we're up against it it sticks right out. most forwards do that to conserve the energy to get that 1% extra over the 3 fullbacks marking them. Singling out Mounié is like singling out a single bad ref decision when you lose 8-0, it's not the problem. LDP is the best town striker I’ve seen in 45 years . If Mounie starts showing signs of being better then it’s happy days . But despite a couple of braces he hasn’t so far for me
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Post by detox on Dec 13, 2017 0:18:10 GMT 1
Hogg went off with migraine so forced sub, like for like..hence Whitehead..I thought we'd get further up the pitch 2nd half but tbh, Chelsea did us for pace all over the pitch...and they looked fitter than us...obviously upset at losing at West Ham. Wagner also told Oggy that this is how we're going to play...and basically we must learn, stop making errors and just get better at it. He can be a bit single minded can Wagner but he's probably persisting with this to see who can adapt and who can't. The obvious who cannot, and it grieves me to say this, is Lowe..who has made errors for first two goals and errors in other games too which has cost us. It's not pretty for Town fans, and the JS was like a morgue tonight, all I could hear were 2,000 Chelsea fans...
I've seen town play this style at West ham, Burnley and Liverpool and tbh I won't be going to any more away games...there's no fun in watching that. We really got stuck into palace but now refuse to compete, and if that's going to be home games too I think fans will get fed up eventually. yes, it was Chelsea, yes they were very good, yes they cost about £1bn ..but just to spend 90 minutes deep in your own half, and then just hoofing the ball upfield so they can attack us again ? really ? Is this the 'scientific' level of football we've degenerated to...yes we'll lose,but it'll be 0-3 and not 0-6 ...?
I wondered if in fact wagner was mixing up his tactics to leave future opponents unsure how we'd play...so when is he going to spring the surprise, Watford ? let's hope so eh.
not seen the stadium half empty before the final whistle for a long while...and sooooooo quiet....
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irverino
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Post by irverino on Dec 13, 2017 0:21:54 GMT 1
Just seen DW comments on tonight's game & totally agree 100% with him, he's been kind saying 'sloppy goals', more like gift wrapped, all 3! Chelsea are Champions & don't need any extra help, lets learn quickly, with 5 games in 16 days coming up no time to dwell...UTT
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Post by ColchTerrier on Dec 13, 2017 0:23:21 GMT 1
Mounié had nothing tonight. Every time he had the ball our players were about 30yeards behind him. Very unfair to call him out. However, I would have started LD tonight. He seems to give us more against the top teams.
I think we have to accept that Wagner just takes the top 4/6 teams as free hits. Had that been a Bournemouth/stoke etc tonight I have no doubt VLP would have been starting. We really missed him but he's back Saturday, so is palmer. I'm very confident we can get something at Watford. Can't wait! Heads up and move on!
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Post by Convictatthemac on Dec 13, 2017 0:30:02 GMT 1
most forwards do that to conserve the energy to get that 1% extra over the 3 fullbacks marking them. Singling out Mounié is like singling out a single bad ref decision when you lose 8-0, it's not the problem. LDP is the best town striker I’ve seen in 45 years . If Mounie starts showing signs of being better then it’s happy days . But despite a couple of braces he hasn’t so far for me LDP is a different type of striker to Mounié. I don't know who's better but they have different styles. If we are going to be so negative then LDP should play. If we are going to play our usual attacking, pressing game then Mounié starts. I think DW put Mounié on because he scored his brace on the weekend, where he should have started LDP if he was going to be so negative. I bet we start LDP against Watford which will be a mistake because we should be attacking Watford with a few of their key players out.
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Post by space hardware on Dec 13, 2017 0:31:34 GMT 1
Mounié had nothing tonight. Every time he had the ball our players were about 30yeards behind him. Very unfair to call him out. However, I would have started LD tonight. He seems to give us more against the top teams. I think we have to accept that Wagner just takes the top 4/6 teams as free hits. Had that been a Bournemouth/stoke etc tonight I have no doubt VLP would have been starting. We really missed him but he's back Saturday, so is palmer. I'm very confident we can get something at Watford. Can't wait! Heads up and move on! It's only a free hit if you actually try to lay a punch. We did fuck all tonight to suggest Wagner thought that game was a free hit.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Dec 13, 2017 0:32:30 GMT 1
LDP is the best town striker I’ve seen in 45 years . If Mounie starts showing signs of being better then it’s happy days . But despite a couple of braces he hasn’t so far for me LDP is a different type of striker to Mounié. I don't know who's better but they have different styles. If we are going to be so negative then LDP should play. If we are going to play our usual attacking, pressing game then Mounié starts. I think DW put Mounié on because he scored his brace on the weekend, where he should have started LDP if he was going to be so negative. I bet we start LDP against Watford which will be a mistake because we should be attacking Watford with a few of their key players out. I don’t get that you don’t think de poitre is an effective attacking force . He is the complete package imo
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 0:32:44 GMT 1
We just don't seem to have the fight to get back in games nowadays. I know the opposition are of a higher quality but when we go behind we almost seem to give up and accept we have lost. Where's the desire to keep fighting to the end like last season? Actually lost nearly every time we went behind last season. I genuinely wonder if Smith is instructed to never to pass or run forward when he has the ball. Mally Brown it aint.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 0:33:34 GMT 1
Just seen DW comments on tonight's game & totally agree 100% with him, he's been kind saying 'sloppy goals', more like gift wrapped, all 3! Chelsea are Champions & don't need any extra help, lets learn quickly, with 5 games in 16 days coming up no time to dwell...UTT spot on.
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Post by Convictatthemac on Dec 13, 2017 0:42:46 GMT 1
LDP is a different type of striker to Mounié. I don't know who's better but they have different styles. If we are going to be so negative then LDP should play. If we are going to play our usual attacking, pressing game then Mounié starts. I think DW put Mounié on because he scored his brace on the weekend, where he should have started LDP if he was going to be so negative. I bet we start LDP against Watford which will be a mistake because we should be attacking Watford with a few of their key players out. I don’t get that you don’t think de poitre is an effective attacking force . He is the complete package imo I didn't say that, I think his strength is when his back is to the goal, playing as the loan striker holding the ball up or turning his defender. I think Mounié struggles in this area, he wins headers but doesn't bring the ball down and hold it for others to arrive. Mounié I think is better when running at the goal, when the teams momentum is naturally forward. All his goals have come from attacking positions or team breakaways. Depoitré seems to me to be weaker than Mounié at this. Not saying he can't do it, just slightly not as effective. Having said that, I really liked his goal, even though it was consolation time.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Dec 13, 2017 0:47:17 GMT 1
I don’t get that you don’t think de poitre is an effective attacking force . He is the complete package imo I didn't say that, I think his strength is when his back is to the goal, playing as the loan striker holding the ball up or turning his defender. I think Mounié struggles in this area, he wins headers but doesn't bring the ball down and hold it for others to arrive. Mounié I think is better when running at the goal, when the teams momentum is naturally forward. All his goals have come from attacking positions or team breakaways. Depoitré seems to me to be weaker than Mounié at this. Not saying he can't do it, just slightly not as effective. Having said that, I really liked his goal, even though it was consolation time. I don’t agree with your analysis but we can agree to disagree . Look at ldps goals against Man Utd and leicester . Compare with mounie two virtual tap ins on Saturday .. I haven’t seen mounie do to defenders what ldp has . And I was at Crystal Palace . Not having a go at mounie I like him and look forward to seeing what he can do in a Town shirt
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Post by terriers321 on Dec 13, 2017 0:47:28 GMT 1
I’d start Depoitre next game.
Thought he was unlucky to lose his place when Mounie came back to full fitness as I think he’s been class. Especially his work rate which is needed with the formation and style we play.
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