wigster
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by wigster on Dec 13, 2017 0:49:53 GMT 1
I have to agree with what Matt Glennon said tonight - that Spurs result has left a massive legacy and Wagner was talking post-match as though every time we play a "top" team this season we are going for the negative approach in case the opposition "do a Spurs" on us. Wagner thought we played well against City and against Liverpool by playing our ten defending and one striker 40 yards away. He's the boss and knows more than I ever will but I live in Burnley and they don't get their results by defending like mad and giving the opposition too much respect. They go for the jugular and gegenpress. It may well mean the occasional hammering but we're getting those this season anyway.
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Post by space hardware on Dec 13, 2017 0:51:44 GMT 1
From what we've seen so far this season, Mounié isn't the kind of striker to lead the line in the system we played. It had to be LDP who played tonight.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Dec 13, 2017 0:54:54 GMT 1
I have to agree with what Matt Glennon said tonight - that Spurs result has left a massive legacy and Wagner was talking post-match as though every time we play a "top" team this season we are going for the negative approach in case the opposition "do a Spurs" on us. Wagner thought we played well against City and against Liverpool by playing our ten defending and one striker 40 yards away. He's the boss and knows more than I ever will but I live in Burnley and they don't get their results by defending like mad and giving the opposition too much respect. They go for the jugular and gegenpress. It may well mean the occasional hammering but we're getting those this season anyway. Burnley also got relegated in their first two tries in the premier league . We are not where Burnley are in terms of stage of development .. but I reckon we will stay up this season and not be far behind them next
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 13, 2017 0:55:34 GMT 1
arguably the best 2 attacking full backs in the division, both wearing harry potters cloak of invisibility??
one pass got them almost level with our box every time.. unchallenged even if it was a difficult take or they made an error on receiving it?
it was very slow suicide...
you have to make the better sides work for every yard in your half, we failed badly..
given the fact we set out without any intention of looking to score, why kachunga and Ince could not drop and go wide fucking defeats me..
make em go down the middle where we have 3 midfielders and the centre backs?
they ended up being able to play the triangles around the box anyway, make em work harder to get there perhaps?
a nothing performance ended up with nothing..
mounie isnt happy at chasing and running.. it was always a lost cause but he wont do it..
Wagner wrote tonight off before we started, we can all do the same now its over...
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Post by Convictatthemac on Dec 13, 2017 0:58:30 GMT 1
I didn't say that, I think his strength is when his back is to the goal, playing as the loan striker holding the ball up or turning his defender. I think Mounié struggles in this area, he wins headers but doesn't bring the ball down and hold it for others to arrive. Mounié I think is better when running at the goal, when the teams momentum is naturally forward. All his goals have come from attacking positions or team breakaways. Depoitré seems to me to be weaker than Mounié at this. Not saying he can't do it, just slightly not as effective. Having said that, I really liked his goal, even though it was consolation time. I don’t agree with your analysis but we can agree to disagree . Look at ldps goals against Man Utd and leicester . Compare with mounie two virtual tap ins on Saturday .. I haven’t seen mounie do to defenders what ldp has . And I was at Crystal Palace . Not having a go at mounie I like him and look forward to seeing what he can do in a Town shirt I agree with what you are saying. Mounié gets into those positions to tap in, which is a skill in itself(just ask Izzy ). Depoitré turns the defender, that's why I think he would have been the better choice tonight. If we go back to playing like we did against Brighton then it's Mounié because he gets there for tap ins and is also dangerous in the air(personally I think Mounié jumps higher than LDP so his positional play isn't as critical whereas the ball essentially has to land on LDP's head to score).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 1:05:48 GMT 1
They brought a 6 stone child on at centre back for that last 15 and we put no pressure on the kid whatsoever. We're way too bloody soft at times
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Post by saintlyterrier on Dec 13, 2017 1:11:57 GMT 1
Chelsea were excellent. Agree the comments Galpharm made about their full backs. Willian was brilliant: perpetual motion. Town were too negative, but also painfully slow. I've said many times that our full backs are our principal weakness. Smith is a lost cause: the epitome of a good Championship player who can't hack it in the Premier League. Get rid at end of year. I believe, however, that there is a good footballer in Flo. An excellent cross for the goal, but the only decent cross of the night. If we actually make such chances, then we might score goals.
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Post by freddyk on Dec 13, 2017 1:35:55 GMT 1
Chelsea were excellent. Agree the comments Galpharm made about their full backs. Willian was brilliant: perpetual motion. Town were too negative, but also painfully slow. I've said many times that our full backs are our principal weakness. Smith is a lost cause: the epitome of a good Championship player who can't hack it in the Premier League. Get rid at end of year. I believe, however, that there is a good footballer in Flo. An excellent cross for the goal, but the only decent cross of the night. If we actually make such chances, then we might score goals. Flo has some serious pace and could be the fastest on our team. Why couldn't he play a similar role to Willian?
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Post by pixie on Dec 13, 2017 1:56:14 GMT 1
I thought I had made a wasted journey as soon as I heard the team selection. It was just a matter of time before we went behind. Even then Wagner didn't change tactics. Half Time 0-2 and still no attacking intent. I put my clapper down as I didn't think I would need it again. People were streaming out from the 80th minute and I couldn't blame them, it was so boring. Wagner stood like a statue all game. It was obvious he had conceded the points before kick-off. Feel really sorry for our strikers who given service are decent. Couldn't agree with Jackson when he said we needed new strikers most of all. Depoitre showed what he can do at the death.
I admit I feel down tonight. Where are we going to get another 6 wins from? Tonight we set up as if we were away. 7 successive games away and not a single goal scored. I suppose we might get another 0-0 before the season ends. We only play like we did at Palace when at home against the bottom 14 sides so we need another 6 wins in 8 more home matches, ie excluding Arsenal and Liverpool, a very tall order. Is the manager so blind he cannot see his defensive tactics just do not work? Apart from ManU. we have lost every single time we have played that way. Wagner could learn much from Sean Dyche who is achieving results without spending fortunes. Now there is a real tactician.
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Post by impact on Dec 13, 2017 2:01:38 GMT 1
I thought I had made a wasted journey as soon as I heard the team selection. It was just a matter of time before we went behind. Even then Wagner didn't change tactics. Half Time 0-2 and still no attacking intent. I put my clapper down as I didn't think I would need it again. People were streaming out from the 80th minute and I couldn't blame them, it was so boring. Wagner stood like a statue all game. It was obvious he had conceded the points before kick-off. Feel really sorry for our strikers who given service are decent. Couldn't agree with Jackson when he said we needed new strikers most of all. Depoitre showed what he can do at the death. I admit I feel down tonight. Where are we going to get another 6 wins from? Tonight we set up as if we were away. 7 successive games away and not a single goal scored. I suppose we might get another 0-0 before the season ends. We only play like we did at Palace when at home against the bottom 14 sides so we need another 6 wins in 8 more home matches, ie excluding Arsenal and Liverpool, a very tall order. Is the manager so blind he cannot see his defensive tactics just do not work? Apart from ManU. we have lost every single time we have played that way. Wagner could learn much from Sean Dyche who is achieving results without spending fortunes. Now there is a real tactician. Burnley have spent over 70m in 2 seasons. They are also setting up defensively and nick wins 1-0. Not the best example for your point.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 2:06:56 GMT 1
I don’t get that you don’t think de poitre is an effective attacking force . He is the complete package imo I didn't say that, I think his strength is when his back is to the goal, playing as the loan striker holding the ball up or turning his defender. I think Mounié struggles in this area, he wins headers but doesn't bring the ball down and hold it for others to arrive. Mounié I think is better when running at the goal, when the teams momentum is naturally forward. All his goals have come from attacking positions or team breakaways. Depoitré seems to me to be weaker than Mounié at this. Not saying he can't do it, just slightly not as effective. Having said that, I really liked his goal, even though it was consolation time. Depoitre's never been played as a loan striker, don't know what you're on about.
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Post by lahdeedah on Dec 13, 2017 2:39:41 GMT 1
Why does smith always seem to turn back? He often has time to look up and make a pass but still turns back. .Loewe is the same. Not impressed with the full backs tonight. our midfield seems to miss any kind of criticism. Mooy has been poor tonight, as has williams. in fact all the players seem to have shit emselves when they realised they were playing chelski. Thought Mooy was decent in the early parts of the first half, got town up the pitch much more than any other player. These tactics just don’t suit his style of play.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Dec 13, 2017 2:56:34 GMT 1
Mounie starts, Town up a goal....Del Potro on 72 or 73 minutes. Mounie started and Del Potro came on the 73rd minute.....only the goal up let me down
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Dec 13, 2017 2:58:09 GMT 1
I have to agree with what Matt Glennon said tonight - that Spurs result has left a massive legacy and Wagner was talking post-match as though every time we play a "top" team this season we are going for the negative approach in case the opposition "do a Spurs" on us. Wagner thought we played well against City and against Liverpool by playing our ten defending and one striker 40 yards away. He's the boss and knows more than I ever will but I live in Burnley and they don't get their results by defending like mad and giving the opposition too much respect. They go for the jugular and gegenpress. It may well mean the occasional hammering but we're getting those this season anyway. 100% correct. Take the game to the opposition....it is the only way.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Dec 13, 2017 3:01:53 GMT 1
most forwards do that to conserve the energy to get that 1% extra over the 3 fullbacks marking them. Singling out Mounié is like singling out a single bad ref decision when you lose 8-0, it's not the problem. LDP is the best town striker I’ve seen in 45 years . If Mounie starts showing signs of being better then it’s happy days . But despite a couple of braces he hasn’t so far for me We went down this road...i dont see what you see. Love the guy but he is just a handful....plenty of those around.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Dec 13, 2017 4:59:54 GMT 1
LDP is the best town striker I’ve seen in 45 years . If Mounie starts showing signs of being better then it’s happy days . But despite a couple of braces he hasn’t so far for me We went down this road...i dont see what you see. Love the guy but he is just a handful....plenty of those around. Yeah we went down this road and you offered me Jordan Rhodes as being better
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 7:28:42 GMT 1
I think when we meet teams of the calibre of Chelsea who are on form the result will be the same regardless how we set up or play. Sadly but predictably they were better in every department last night - including support, they do have a decent vocal away following unlike some of the big teams. These games do not define our season - its games like Brighton and Watford that are more significant. We are better placed in the league table now than we could have expected, onwards and upwards.
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htfc1984
Darren Bullock Terrier
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Post by htfc1984 on Dec 13, 2017 7:36:01 GMT 1
I must admit that using the spurs game as an example and/or lesson is annoying me. Against Man utd and city we went for it. In equal measures to doing our defensive duties. It work very well v utd and close v city. When we try this defensive tactic we still get hammered. You can't keep inviting teams like Liverpool and chelski into you. The movement and pace and eye of the needle balls will and have eventually destroyed us anyway. No doubt about it we will take some hammerings as most do at some point but really frustrating when at home you don't even try to implement the ethos of what we claim our identity to be. Terriers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 7:40:30 GMT 1
I must admit that using the spurs game as an example and/or lesson is annoying me. Against Man utd and city we went for it. In equal measures to doing our defensive duties. It work very well v utd and close v city. When we try this defensive tactic we still get hammered. You can't keep inviting teams like Liverpool and chelski into you. The movement and pace and eye of the needle balls will and have eventually destroyed us anyway. No doubt about it we will take some hammerings as most do at some point but really frustrating when at home you don't even try to implement the ethos of what we claim our identity to be. Terriers. crikey and all that without Fabregas !
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Dec 13, 2017 8:36:56 GMT 1
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htfc1984
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 953
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Post by htfc1984 on Dec 13, 2017 9:10:26 GMT 1
I must admit that using the spurs game as an example and/or lesson is annoying me. Against Man utd and city we went for it. In equal measures to doing our defensive duties. It work very well v utd and close v city. When we try this defensive tactic we still get hammered. You can't keep inviting teams like Liverpool and chelski into you. The movement and pace and eye of the needle balls will and have eventually destroyed us anyway. No doubt about it we will take some hammerings as most do at some point but really frustrating when at home you don't even try to implement the ethos of what we claim our identity to be. Terriers. crikey and all that without Fabregas ! Spurs and Chelsea probably the best 2 teams I've ever seen town play. Although against Chelsea we showed them too much respect and in a way made it easier for them by giving them time and space. Make no mistake though they quickly stepped it up a gear without batting an eyelid. 3rd goal is testament to that
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Dec 13, 2017 9:48:32 GMT 1
Too timid. Too much room for their wing backs. I have no issue losing to the champions but we'd lost before we kicked off in terms of our attitude last night. We huffed and puffed but didn't get in their faces. When Dean Whitehead (and I mean him no disrespect here) comes on and is your best player in the second half you know there's something amiss.
I was saying yesterday that I thought RVLP and LDP would come in, with Collin and Steve dropped.
We needed to get at them like we did early doors against Man U - in that game we had the early Tommy Smith/Martial flashpoint and it set the tone - we had to start like that. Instead Moses was given enough room to build himself a nice little cottage on their right flank, and we gift them an early goal with our insistence on fannying about at the back (I don't mind us doing it when we have the space, but they were wise to it from minute 1).
Ho hum.
Need to sort our away form out at Vicarage Road, and hope Stoke don't sack Sparky til Dec 27th
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2017 9:59:07 GMT 1
I have to agree with what Matt Glennon said tonight - that Spurs result has left a massive legacy and Wagner was talking post-match as though every time we play a "top" team this season we are going for the negative approach in case the opposition "do a Spurs" on us. Wagner thought we played well against City and against Liverpool by playing our ten defending and one striker 40 yards away. He's the boss and knows more than I ever will but I live in Burnley and they don't get their results by defending like mad and giving the opposition too much respect. They go for the jugular and gegenpress. It may well mean the occasional hammering but we're getting those this season anyway. 100% correct. Take the game to the opposition....it is the only way. is it? you show your total lack of knowledge about the modern game.in jim royalS words 100% MY ARSE!
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Post by space hardware on Dec 13, 2017 10:02:55 GMT 1
Too timid. Too much room for their wing backs. I have no issue losing to the champions but we'd lost before we kicked off in terms of our attitude last night. We huffed and puffed but didn't get in their faces. When Dean Whitehead (and I mean him no disrespect here) comes on and is your best player in the second half you know there's something amiss. I was saying yesterday that I thought RVLP and LDP would come in, with Collin and Steve dropped. We needed to get at them like we did early doors against Man U - in that game we had the early Tommy Smith/Martial flashpoint and it set the tone - we had to start like that. Instead Moses was given enough room to build himself a nice little cottage on their right flank, and we gift them an early goal with our insistence on fannying about at the back (I don't mind us doing it when we have the space, but they were wise to it from minute 1). Ho hum. Need to sort our away form out at Vicarage Road, and hope Stoke don't sack Sparky til Dec 27th Spot on. I can't believe anyone is comparing the way we set up and played last night to the Man Utd game. We were urgent, direct and solid in that game, the exact opposite of last night's performance. And, as you say, the early Smith reducer on Martial really got things going. Where was the early smack on Hazard or Pedro? Nowhere. Hopefully just a bad day at the office for all concerned. It's not losing to Chelsea that I can't understand, it's the way we played that baffles me.
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Post by Gag_N_Bone_Man on Dec 13, 2017 10:07:05 GMT 1
Too timid. Too much room for their wing backs. I have no issue losing to the champions but we'd lost before we kicked off in terms of our attitude last night. We huffed and puffed but didn't get in their faces. When Dean Whitehead (and I mean him no disrespect here) comes on and is your best player in the second half you know there's something amiss. I was saying yesterday that I thought RVLP and LDP would come in, with Collin and Steve dropped. We needed to get at them like we did early doors against Man U - in that game we had the early Tommy Smith/Martial flashpoint and it set the tone - we had to start like that. Instead Moses was given enough room to build himself a nice little cottage on their right flank, and we gift them an early goal with our insistence on fannying about at the back (I don't mind us doing it when we have the space, but they were wise to it from minute 1). Ho hum. Need to sort our away form out at Vicarage Road, and hope Stoke don't sack Sparky til Dec 27th Spot on. I can't believe anyone is comparing the way we set up and played last night to the Man Utd game. We were urgent, direct and solid in that game, the exact opposite of last night's performance. And, as you say, the early Smith reducer on Martial really got things going. Where was the early smack on Hazard or Pedro? Nowhere. Hopefully just a bad day at the office for all concerned. It's not losing to Chelsea that I can't understand, it's the way we played that baffles me.I expected to lose. But I expected them to know they'd been in a battle on a cold wet Tuesday Yorkshire night.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Dec 13, 2017 10:16:03 GMT 1
100% correct. Take the game to the opposition....it is the only way. is it? you show your total lack of knowledge about the modern game.in jim royalS words 100% MY ARSE! Modern game? If we are supposed to be soaking it up and countering where is the countering? You cant attack for 5 minutes of the game. These tactics wont bring a single win against a top six side from now until the end of the season.
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Post by lex on Dec 13, 2017 10:22:36 GMT 1
I have to agree with what Matt Glennon said tonight - that Spurs result has left a massive legacy and Wagner was talking post-match as though every time we play a "top" team this season we are going for the negative approach in case the opposition "do a Spurs" on us. Wagner thought we played well against City and against Liverpool by playing our ten defending and one striker 40 yards away. He's the boss and knows more than I ever will but I live in Burnley and they don't get their results by defending like mad and giving the opposition too much respect. They go for the jugular and gegenpress. It may well mean the occasional hammering but we're getting those this season anyway. 100% correct. Take the game to the opposition....it is the only way. I am not sure this is the only way Oti, you have to have a balance. I do believe that the Spurs game has left an impression on the management and the way we set up going forward. However we must remember that individual mistakes went a long way to help in that 0-4 scoreline. I have not really a problem with the set up against the top teams however it has to have balance and also has got to have some sort of threat especially at home as per the Man U performance ( VLP is crucial to us ). The performance last night was strange as there appeared to be a reluctance to go forward even when there was an opportunity and this just encouraged Chelsea to come on to us. They were also very impressive without the ball with the way they closed us down and never gave us any time. Chelsea are quality with some top players assembled from all over the globe and are Champions for a reason, however I think we gave them a bit too much respect last night. I think the disappointing aspect from last night is that the performance comes straight after the Brighton game where we were so positive and on the front foot however I suppose that's what you get when you spend a billion quid. Learn from it and move on - together.UTT
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Post by The-Crab on Dec 13, 2017 10:34:50 GMT 1
I thought I had made a wasted journey as soon as I heard the team selection. It was just a matter of time before we went behind. Even then Wagner didn't change tactics. Half Time 0-2 and still no attacking intent. I put my clapper down as I didn't think I would need it again. People were streaming out from the 80th minute and I couldn't blame them, it was so boring. Wagner stood like a statue all game. It was obvious he had conceded the points before kick-off. Feel really sorry for our strikers who given service are decent. Couldn't agree with Jackson when he said we needed new strikers most of all. Depoitre showed what he can do at the death. I admit I feel down tonight. Where are we going to get another 6 wins from? Tonight we set up as if we were away. 7 successive games away and not a single goal scored. I suppose we might get another 0-0 before the season ends. We only play like we did at Palace when at home against the bottom 14 sides so we need another 6 wins in 8 more home matches, ie excluding Arsenal and Liverpool, a very tall order. Is the manager so blind he cannot see his defensive tactics just do not work? Apart from ManU. we have lost every single time we have played that way. Wagner could learn much from Sean Dyche who is achieving results without spending fortunes. Now there is a real tactician. Burnley have spent over 70m in 2 seasons. They are also setting up defensively and nick wins 1-0. Not the best example for your point. They may have a defensive approach type game, but they also have balance in attack and have scored in nearly every away game and picked up impressive results away and sit fourth in the table, we also spent around £50m in the summer, I would say it is a great example. I want to enjoy this premiership journey, but there are many games in which I am utterly bored with our style of play. When Wagner decides we can actually win a game, then we are good to watch and the players enjoy themselves. If I was a player I would be very frustrated and pretty bored playing that style, it's way too defensive and I don't go for the 'It's Chelsea, be realistic' gag. West Ham and Crystal Palace have got wins against them at home and certainly not playing like we did. But it's not the result, is the big white flag that is so annoying. We are going to lose anyway with that approach, so at least give ourselves a chance and entertain the supporters whilst letting the players express themselves.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Dec 13, 2017 10:36:25 GMT 1
100% correct. Take the game to the opposition....it is the only way. I am not sure this is the only way Oti, you have to have a balance. I do believe that the Spurs game has left an impression on the management and the way we set up going forward. However we must remember that individual mistakes went a long way to help in that 0-4 scoreline. I have not really a problem with the set up against the top teams however it has to have balance and also has got to have some sort of threat especially at home as per the Man U performance ( VLP is crucial to us ). The performance last night was strange as there appeared to be a reluctance to go forward even when there was an opportunity and this just encouraged Chelsea to come on to us. They were also very impressive without the ball with the way they closed us down and never gave us any time. Chelsea are quality with some top players assembled from all over the globe and are Champions for a reason, however I think we gave them a bit too much respect last night. I think the disappointing aspect from last night is that the performance comes straight after the Brighton game where we were so positive and on the front foot however I suppose that's what you get when you spend a billion quid. Learn from it and move on - together.UTT If you make an individual mistake in the oppositions half it is rarely a risk. If you pass to your gormless keeper 20 times a match knowing he cant kick. and you know from such a position he has given away two goals already (and almost another 3 or 4), then you are simply stupid. Why Schindler and Zanka do the little charade of standing on the dead-ball line asking for it is beyond me. I was raging when Lossl slipped because i told everyone around me what would happen 5 seconds before it did. PLEASE...stop the back-passes.
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Post by freddyk on Dec 13, 2017 10:37:27 GMT 1
Had a good think on our performance against Chelsea. DW has only one objective this year and I think that it is all our objective. That is to stay up. Looking back over the last month or so we have had plenty of injuries, and considering we don't have a big squad he is obviously careful about avoiding injuries against teams like Chelsea. Given we have had a few calls going against us and also we have made a few clangers coming out of the back we must be thankful to DW because he has given us a great opportunity. It is obviously a learning experience for our players along with our supporters. Watford and Stoke ... let's go for it and let's continue to dream.
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