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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Dec 16, 2018 18:02:04 GMT 1
Following on from the dreadful 'crossing' stat of yesterday, I have been encouraged to confirm this one. Look away now - you have been warned. In the second half of last season Town scored just six goals at home: 1-4 West Ham, Bournemouth 4-1 and Watford 1-0. With one home game remaining before New Year, they have scored just three goals this season: Fulham 1-0, West Ham 1-1 and BHA 1-2. In the 2018 calendar year Town have managed to score just nine goals at home - and two of those have been own goals. I do not know of any record as poor from any other club. It's a truly embarrassing statistic. "Appalling" is truly the right choice of word in this instance. We probably won't score more than two against Southampton, so - I don't know - will that be a record? It certainly puts Messi's record (even if in a different league) of scoring 91 goals in a calendar year into perspective. And yet we are still here - it's not over yet. To date, we are only one of three promoted teams never to have been relagated from the Premier League.
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Post by royrace on Dec 16, 2018 18:16:39 GMT 1
The problem with changing formation is that our wingers are of a championship standard and won’t scare any premier league defence For me Wagner has 10 players available who can play at this level - lossl, Flo, loewe, kongolo, schindler, zanka, Hogg, billing, pritchard, mounie And those 10 names are debatable - it’s not even a full side. Not helped by vlp exile The rest of our squad are out of their depth - works in progress or simply not up to it Wagners hands are tied - he’s picking a formation that gets a competitive team out there Exactly, it's a miracle we're managing to look a good side that can't score and avoid getting hammered week in, week out. The problem is the recruitment, it's left us short on quality in key areas and forced Wagner into playing the new formation without the players who can unlock defences. Recruitment has been the problem, not the manager and it will likely send us down. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Dec 16, 2018 18:24:11 GMT 1
The problem with changing formation is that our wingers are of a championship standard and won’t scare any premier league defence For me Wagner has 10 players available who can play at this level - lossl, Flo, loewe, kongolo, schindler, zanka, Hogg, billing, pritchard, mounie And those 10 names are debatable - it’s not even a full side. Not helped by vlp exile The rest of our squad are out of their depth - works in progress or simply not up to it Wagners hands are tied - he’s picking a formation that gets a competitive team out there Exactly, it's a miracle we're managing to look a good side that can't score and avoid getting hammered week in, week out. The problem is the recruitment, it's left us short on quality in key areas and forced Wagner into playing the new formation without the players who can unlock defences. Recruitment has been the problem, not the manager and it will likely send us down. Sent from my SM-G920F using proboards See highlighted bit for key to success.
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Post by tobbyg on Dec 16, 2018 19:48:15 GMT 1
Under Wagner from the start of the 16/17 season our goal record is: For 97 from 104 games (0.93 per match) Against 144 (1.38 per match) PL only: For 38 from 55 (0.69 per match) Amazingly, 14 of these came in 4 matches, otherwise it would read 24 from 51 @ 0.47 goals per match. Against 86 (1.56 per match) Hard to see how we change such a deep-rooted problem in the next 5 months.You change the bloke that's at the root of the deep rooted problem. As I've said elsewhere, there really is no point now though as I think this season will prove to be too bigger challenge for the club regardless. Nice to see you leading another Wagner out campaign. We’re playing good football and being competitive in all our games, but fuck that get the man out who has pretty much achieved the impossible every season he’s been here. Or on the other hand ignore the idiots like you and try bring in a striker in January.
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Post by Malvern Tom (WAHLS) on Dec 16, 2018 19:52:48 GMT 1
Following on from the dreadful 'crossing' stat of yesterday, I have been encouraged to confirm this one. Look away now - you have been warned. In the second half of last season Town scored just six goals at home: 1-4 West Ham, Bournemouth 4-1 and Watford 1-0. With one home game remaining before New Year, they have scored just three goals this season: Fulham 1-0, West Ham 1-1 and BHA 1-2. In the 2018 calendar year Town have managed to score just nine goals at home - and two of those have been own goals. I do not know of any record as poor from any other club. It's a truly embarrassing statistic. ... Yet I still love my team, club, and fellow fans, none of which I would swap for any others.
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wigster
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Post by wigster on Dec 16, 2018 20:09:52 GMT 1
The problem with changing formation is that our wingers are of a championship standard and won’t scare any premier league defence For me Wagner has 10 players available who can play at this level - lossl, Flo, loewe, kongolo, schindler, zanka, Hogg, billing, pritchard, mounie And those 10 names are debatable - it’s not even a full side. Not helped by vlp exile The rest of our squad are out of their depth - works in progress or simply not up to it Wagners hands are tied - he’s picking a formation that gets a competitive team out there All about opinion as ever huddsterrier. Based on ONE start admittedly I'd add Bacuna to that list. Flo would be nowhere near it and Mounie would have to show a lot more striker's awareness and movement. OK in the air but not too much else unfortunately.
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Post by capitalterrier on Dec 16, 2018 20:17:48 GMT 1
For me it's not about the 11 players who are picked, it's the positions they take up. If you were to view a pitch map of the average positions of each player it'd be blindingly obvious why we don't score. One man isolated up front, Pritchard the only other in an advanced position, then everyone else in a defensive position.
3 holding midfielders and primarily defensive minded players at wing back is the problem.
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Post by El Mel on Dec 16, 2018 20:28:50 GMT 1
You change the bloke that's at the root of the deep rooted problem. As I've said elsewhere, there really is no point now though as I think this season will prove to be too bigger challenge for the club regardless. Nice to see you leading another Wagner out campaign. We’re playing good football and being competitive in all our games, but fuck that get the man out who has pretty much achieved the impossible every season he’s been here. Or on the other hand ignore the idiots like you and try bring in a striker in January. We've spent a hundred million pounds since we arrived in this division, we should be playing football like we've never seen before, so the claim that 'we are playing good football' is something which I'd expect anyway, even though given the quality of the opposition makes that difficult at times. Also, I have tremendous respect and admiration for what Wagner has achieved with us, he was at the forefront of an amazing season to get us into this division and a similarly impressive season to keep us here - but he didn't do it alone, and people seem to forget that. The recruitment in the promotion season was key to our success - without it, we would not have got to where we are now. My only gripe with DW has always been the attacking intent of the team, it's always been an issue and it remains to be so now - and it is the reason we will not survive in May, should that be the outcome this season. If the man could address it, then he'd have my complete and unwavering support, and I'd have nothing to bemoan about the on pitch performances, but, he can't address it. It's right there in front of our eyes - and anybody that denies it, well they are the idiots my friend. I've no issue with relegation - it'll happen someday. I've no issue with the Wagner being the manager - he's possibly the best man for the job that we could have in the chair right now, but please, do me a favour tobby, when somebody on a forum asks how you solve the problem of the team being catastrophically weak in front of goal, give me the respect to share my opinion on the matter. Merry fucking christmas sunshine,
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Post by Captainslapper on Dec 16, 2018 20:38:00 GMT 1
Think youre being very generous to include Flo and Mounie in that list. Flo- a wideman who can;t cross a ball, can't get past his man with pace, doesn;t have a trick to get past his man and is extremely weak defensively. The only good thing I can say about him is that he puts a shift in.. gets up and down the line and into what should be good positions if he had the ability to capitalise. . Mounie- dangerous from set pieces but couldn;t hit a barn door whilst sat on the latch in open play. 1 goal since February.
Our summer transfer activity is killing us. Wagner has to shoulder the bulk of the blame for that. It was patently obvious we needed strengthening up front and he failed to do it, spending all our efforts on wingers who can;t now get a game. Such a shame because in every other aspect of the game, we are playing so much better than we did last season. But offensively we are terrible- the worst side in the division by a street.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 20:50:41 GMT 1
You’re right Captain. The club line for the last 2 years has been about performing above and beyond in every situation. Sadly, it’s been off the pitch and in the signings department that we have failed this mantra massively.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 20:50:52 GMT 1
Following on from the dreadful 'crossing' stat of yesterday, I have been encouraged to confirm this one. Look away now - you have been warned. In the second half of last season Town scored just six goals at home: 1-4 West Ham, Bournemouth 4-1 and Watford 1-0. With one home game remaining before New Year, they have scored just three goals this season: Fulham 1-0, West Ham 1-1 and BHA 1-2. In the 2018 calendar year Town have managed to score just nine goals at home - and two of those have been own goals. I do not know of any record as poor from any other club. It's a truly embarrassing statistic. Our record calendar year low was 14 home league goals in 1972 so that's a record we are likely to break. Another record set to go is points achieved. We have 12 points at home in 2018, the record low is 14 in 1948 (and that was with 2 points per win!!)
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Dec 16, 2018 20:52:57 GMT 1
We won't be staying up this season. Got away with it last year. Nope, we earned it last year. Saturday was a blow but we all had a bad day especially the crowd
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Killer
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Post by Killer on Dec 16, 2018 21:05:46 GMT 1
Following on from the dreadful 'crossing' stat of yesterday, I have been encouraged to confirm this one. Look away now - you have been warned. In the second half of last season Town scored just six goals at home: 1-4 West Ham, Bournemouth 4-1 and Watford 1-0. With one home game remaining before New Year, they have scored just three goals this season: Fulham 1-0, West Ham 1-1 and BHA 1-2. In the 2018 calendar year Town have managed to score just nine goals at home - and two of those have been own goals. I do not know of any record as poor from any other club. It's a truly embarrassing statistic.
Also think Derby's 20 goals in a season (lowest in EPL history) is under threat.
Sunderland scored 21 goals 2002/03.
Both relegated.
Then the jump is to 26 goals. No team has stayed up scoring fewer than 26.
We've 10 in 17 games.
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Post by shawsie on Dec 16, 2018 21:11:29 GMT 1
Think youre being very generous to include Flo and Mounie in that list. Flo- a wideman who can;t cross a ball, can't get past his man with pace, doesn;t have a trick to get past his man and is extremely weak defensively. The only good thing I can say about him is that he puts a shift in.. gets up and down the line and into what should be good positions if he had the ability to capitalise. . Mounie- dangerous from set pieces but couldn;t hit a barn door whilst sat on the latch in open play. 1 goal since February. Our summer transfer activity is killing us. Wagner has to shoulder the bulk of the blame for that. It was patently obvious we needed strengthening up front and he failed to do it, spending all our efforts on wingers who can;t now get a game. Such a shame because in every other aspect of the game, we are playing so much better than we did last season. But offensively we are terrible- the worst side in the division by a street. Generous to add Pritchard for me too. Totally agree re flo but I do think mounie has something if we played to his strengths. We simply don't do that and suffer the consequences. The big issue dean and David have is if we go down with a whimper no way are lossl, lowe, schindler, zanka, kongolo, mooy, billing, mounie staying and that rips the heart out of the good things we have built in the last 3 yrs. It's a big dilemma - Wagner is and always will be loved here, but things have to change. It's not luck or lack of investment which is costing us....it's players not performing, tactics and investing in players who don't get a game!Now is not the time to panic or go daft but if our Jan transfer window mirrors the summer we will be down in Feb and that would be tragic. Go down fighting if we have to....not with the whimper we saw yesterday.
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Post by Town Duppy on Dec 16, 2018 21:26:45 GMT 1
He's got to be going round to Klopps's over xmas. Surely they'll chat about football and Jurgen might hammer home the virtues of a fast front 3. We have a very fast pair of wingers - diakhaby and mbenza - but they’re not up the standard required Not a pair same bloke.
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Post by space hardware on Dec 16, 2018 21:28:49 GMT 1
Think youre being very generous to include Flo and Mounie in that list. Flo- a wideman who can;t cross a ball, can't get past his man with pace, doesn;t have a trick to get past his man and is extremely weak defensively. The only good thing I can say about him is that he puts a shift in.. gets up and down the line and into what should be good positions if he had the ability to capitalise. . Mounie- dangerous from set pieces but couldn;t hit a barn door whilst sat on the latch in open play. 1 goal since February. Our summer transfer activity is killing us. Wagner has to shoulder the bulk of the blame for that. It was patently obvious we needed strengthening up front and he failed to do it, spending all our efforts on wingers who can;t now get a game. Such a shame because in every other aspect of the game, we are playing so much better than we did last season. But offensively we are terrible- the worst side in the division by a street. Generous to add Pritchard for me too. Totally agree re flo but I do think mounie has something if we played to his strengths. We simply don't do that and suffer the consequences. The big issue dean and David have is if we go down with a whimper no way are lossl, lowe, schindler, zanka, kongolo, mooy, billing, mounie staying and that rips the heart out of the good things we have built in the last 3 yrs. It's a big dilemma - Wagner is and always will be loved here, but things have to change. It's not luck or lack of investment which is costing us....it's players not performing, tactics and investing in players who don't get a game!Now is not the time to panic or go daft but if our Jan transfer window mirrors the summer we will be down in Feb and that would be tragic. Go down fighting if we have to....not with the whimper we saw yesterday. For me, it's tactics and utterly shite summer recruitment. I love Wagner but 8 defensive players on the pitch, at home to a relegation rival? A guy who clearly doesn't want to be here at the end of the window up front? Diakhaby, where is he? Who sanctioned that signing? I've generally been glass half full and had a pop at other people raising these concerns (hello Million Dollar Babies 😁) but yesterday was something of a watershed. The scales fell from these eyes.
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Post by Frederick on Dec 16, 2018 21:29:33 GMT 1
We have 11 wins in one and a half seasons....3 of those were against the bottom team. The average position of the teams beaten is 14th. Taking away the 8 goals scored v Bournemouth and Watford we have 30 goals in 53 matches. Messi alone scores more than that. I used to believe in possesion, having watched Town these past two years i have realised it is only a part of the equation. If you hold on to it without probing and you pass backwards regularly you will not score. Dont score, cant win. Opponents score, cant draw. As it stands we are on for 22 points and 22 goals....that would make us the second worst team in Premiership history. It is time to take risks, to be radical. 1/2 to be relegated is looking like buying money.
Hope dies last.
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Post by Frederick on Dec 16, 2018 21:36:30 GMT 1
The problem with changing formation is that our wingers are of a championship standard and won’t scare any premier league defence For me Wagner has 10 players available who can play at this level - lossl, Flo, loewe, kongolo, schindler, zanka, Hogg, billing, pritchard, mounie And those 10 names are debatable - it’s not even a full side. Not helped by vlp exile The rest of our squad are out of their depth - works in progress or simply not up to it Wagners hands are tied - he’s picking a formation that gets a competitive team out there Fair point. But if we don’t change formation then we put up with narrow defeats every week Newcastle were awful. For me the worst side down here this season but put five passes together and they scored. It’s the same every week at the moment I’d rather see a change to get some more attacking options on the pitch. I’d also like us to change to a shoot on sight policy. Fed up of players passing silly little balls instead of pushing it forward a yard and hitting the chuffing thing. The fans have been shouting "shoot" when we get within 30 yards for a year now!
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Post by Frederick on Dec 16, 2018 21:43:45 GMT 1
I have never rated the front two. Endeavour I can get from a sheep-dog. A lively striker required in Jan, I don't care if he is 5 foot 2 inches if he can come with his back to goal and take a pass from the negative midfield. Oh for a Lillis, Beech or Marsden bursting from deep. Billing stepped out from the centre circle with it once on Saturday and half the Town fans got a nose-bleed! Way too negative. Even when we are behind we don't change it until 5 minutes left....it should be from 30 minutes left.
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Post by sonny on Dec 16, 2018 22:01:45 GMT 1
Trying to remember the last time a central midfielder got in beyond the back four to score.
What's Michael Collins doing these days?
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Post by hypotenuse on Dec 16, 2018 22:06:20 GMT 1
I really don’t believe we are as bad as many of you are saying. We have played well in a good number of our games. You only had to be at Wolves to see what we are capable of. However, our squad is wafer thin in terms of quality and we struggle when we have injuries. Defensively we are not as reliable as last season - clean sheets are the golden ticket to another prem season and our 3 have netted 7 points (70% of our total). Last season, 10 clean sheets earned 20 of our 36 points. Hope is almost gone but I’m sure we will keep battling until the end. Unfortunately, we will have played all the rest of the clubs near the bottom at home by 2nd Jan whilst our top man is out.
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Post by Town Duppy on Dec 16, 2018 22:14:29 GMT 1
Generous to add Pritchard for me too. Totally agree re flo but I do think mounie has something if we played to his strengths. We simply don't do that and suffer the consequences. The big issue dean and David have is if we go down with a whimper no way are lossl, lowe, schindler, zanka, kongolo, mooy, billing, mounie staying and that rips the heart out of the good things we have built in the last 3 yrs. It's a big dilemma - Wagner is and always will be loved here, but things have to change. It's not luck or lack of investment which is costing us....it's players not performing, tactics and investing in players who don't get a game!Now is not the time to panic or go daft but if our Jan transfer window mirrors the summer we will be down in Feb and that would be tragic. Go down fighting if we have to....not with the whimper we saw yesterday. For me, it's tactics and utterly shite summer recruitment. I love Wagner but 8 defensive players on the pitch, at home to a relegation rival? A guy who clearly doesn't want to be here at the end of the window up front? Diakhaby & Mbenza, where is he? Who sanctioned that signing? I've generally been glass half full and had a pop at other people raising these concerns (hello Million Dollar Babies 😁) but yesterday was something of a watershed. The scales fell from these eyes. This post is wrong.........I have corrected it for you......... you should know better........do not make this mistake again!
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Post by space hardware on Dec 16, 2018 22:18:35 GMT 1
For me, it's tactics and utterly shite summer recruitment. I love Wagner but 8 defensive players on the pitch, at home to a relegation rival? A guy who clearly doesn't want to be here at the end of the window up front? Diakhaby & Mbenza, where is he? Who sanctioned that signing? I've generally been glass half full and had a pop at other people raising these concerns (hello Million Dollar Babies 😁) but yesterday was something of a watershed. The scales fell from these eyes. This post is wrong.........I have corrected it for you......... you should know better........do not make this mistake again! 😂😂😂😂😂😂 sorry. Schoolboy error.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Dec 16, 2018 22:30:00 GMT 1
bodies in their half and bodies in their box..unless you have sane, firminho and salah then your front player/s is/are going to need some help...
it is very, very simple no matter how some would like to complicate it..
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Post by teddytheterrier on Dec 16, 2018 23:21:24 GMT 1
Everyone keeps moaning about the system but can we really afford to revert back to a 4-2-3-1?? We dont have the players for it, it would mean playing with wingers, and all the wingers at the club are absolute pants. Wagner knows they aren't good enough hence he doesn't pick them. The current system we play now would work if we had a decent striker up top. I gave Mounie and Depoitre the benefit of the doubt last season as there was fuck all to limited service throughout. This season they have had the service and have missed some absolute sitters or looked totally disinterested. They are fucking centre forwards and have to put themselves about. If they cba and don't want to play here fuck off back to France. It's a joke neither of them have scored this season.
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Post by champ on Dec 16, 2018 23:26:43 GMT 1
One way or another we will be relegated with some sort of statistic which will embarrassingly be associated with the club forever. We are producing this season what everyone thought we would last season, eventually we have proved everyone right. It's a depressing time.
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Post by keithAM11532 on Dec 17, 2018 0:46:15 GMT 1
Shock news, miserable bastards Art and Mole in sack Wagner moan. Nothing is ever good for them. I suppose every team has them.
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Post by morleyterrier on Dec 17, 2018 3:01:18 GMT 1
One way or another we will be relegated with some sort of statistic which will embarrassingly be associated with the club forever. We are producing this season what everyone thought we would last season, eventually we have proved everyone right. It's a depressing time. Champ, what's pissing me off is I don't think it should be like this. I want the swashbuckling Wagner and Town back. I don't want this overthinking, over complicating approach and tactics to matches. We were massive underdogs in the Championship, we are massive underdogs in the Premier League. Our approach with Wagner since he walked through the door was positive and we can and will beat whoever we play, regardless of budgets or reputations. I stil go back me to Tottenham at home last season as overall the match that changed our overall approach at this level. With some exceptions we haven't been the same since.
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Post by champ on Dec 17, 2018 3:43:35 GMT 1
One way or another we will be relegated with some sort of statistic which will embarrassingly be associated with the club forever. We are producing this season what everyone thought we would last season, eventually we have proved everyone right. It's a depressing time. Champ, what's pissing me off is I don't think it should be like this. I want the swashbuckling Wagner and Town back. I don't want this overthinking, over complicating approach and tactics to matches. We were massive underdogs in the Championship, we are massive underdogs in the Premier League. Our approach with Wagner since he walked through the door was positive and we can and will beat whoever we play, regardless of budgets or reputations. I stil go back me to Tottenham at home last season as overall the match that changed our overall approach at this level. With some exceptions we haven't been the same since. That Spurs game was the first big thumping we had if I recall properly and since then we have very much opted for a defensive approach for most games especially against the big teams. It gets us absolutely nowhere and no worse off points wise than we would be if we just gave it a right good go. I look at teams around us like Southampton against Arsenal and I don't get annoyed that they won, I think good on them for having the guts to give it a good go and go down with a fight. There is no reason we can't do the same and a good coach will get our team scoring.
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bigtruck
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Post by bigtruck on Dec 17, 2018 9:28:42 GMT 1
That truly is abysmal. Hard to see how such a prolonged problem can be rectified. A change in formation and tactics is a start. THEIR IS AN OBVIOUS SOLUTION. FOR Hoyle to have the bottle to sack Wagner and bring in a manager who knows how to make us successful in attack, rather than keep repeating the same failed tactics, like trying to cross too often, which has been b obvious, for ages, it is unsuccessful, because it has, so rarely, proved a success, yet Wagner, wanted us to mainly concentrate on that again, yesterday, as he said in his interview, on htafc.com, after the Newcastle game. Yeah cos that's what team in a relegation battle do when they sack a manager. Go out and get an attack minded coach that gets the team playing free flowing football and start winning games 4-3...... No they sack their managers and go out and bring in the total opposite. Defensive Managers. Allardyce, Pulis and that ilk. If you think they're is a better manager out there at the moment that will a) actually come to the club. b) bring in this super attacking football c) not want an £80m warchest in Janaury then give me a name....
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