Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 0:52:08 GMT 1
Thought Oggy was a little harsh to give him such a grilling to be honest
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town1
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by town1 on Jan 30, 2019 8:33:33 GMT 1
I was optimistic until I saw the team sheet. Lack of tempo. Lack of sustained pressure. Lack of quality. Depressing.
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town1
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by town1 on Jan 30, 2019 8:34:45 GMT 1
Forgot to add Winter says there is not much wrong. That is where the problem lies.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jan 30, 2019 8:37:06 GMT 1
Feel a bit sorry for Siewert and what he has taken over. He has taken over a squad who have a losing mentality, nervy on the ball which leads to poor first touches, taking a split second too long to pass which is too long in this division, fear of giving the ball away, lacking self belief and confidence. The strange thing is these are the key points Wagner changed when he first came and we seem to have now become the total opposite. Wagner pushed self belief on the ball, confidence in the first pass, quality first touch, attack teams. Very strange to see such a transformation from his first game to his last. Siewert has to earn his money and get some confidence back to see this season out. Yes some players have been poor but they are not all poor players, we haven’t somehow scrambled a team of shit players, a confident Schindler is class, a confident Mounie is strong, a confident Kongolo has quality. We need that back now.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 30, 2019 8:41:59 GMT 1
On reflection did we just looked knackered in the last 30 mins - certainly some players looked out on their feet which makes the lack of the third sub until the 87th min even more puzzling
Given Everton played Saturday tea time, we had a weekend off and an extra man for 30 mins we should have been all over them
Talk of double training sessions in Portugal - did we empty the tanks?
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Post by teddytheterrier on Jan 30, 2019 8:43:45 GMT 1
Not going to judge him after one game. He's got a mammoth task of having to turn results around quickly. If you were judging him on the one game then it feels like Wagner part 2. A cheap option 300k in compensation, absolute peanuts to a premier league club. I just feel like the club needed to change its approach, the terrier identity has long gone imo we look like little lost clueless puppies now. Me personally I'd have stuck with Hudson until the summer and then spent some money to bring Jokanovic or Koranke in. But hey ho it's done now. Hope Jan can turn it round but if we keep this up until the summer then we are in for a long arse season in the championship.
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Post by kennyk2 on Jan 30, 2019 8:49:28 GMT 1
Feel a bit sorry for Siewert and what he has taken over. He has taken over a squad who have a losing mentality, nervy on the ball which leads to poor first touches, taking a split second too long to pass which is too long in this division, fear of giving the ball away, lacking self belief and confidence. The strange thing is these are the key points Wagner changed when he first came and we seem to have now become the total opposite. Wagner pushed self belief on the ball, confidence in the first pass, quality first touch, attack teams. Very strange to see such a transformation from his first game to his last. Siewert has to earn his money and get some confidence back to see this season out. Yes some players have been poor but they are not all poor players, we haven’t somehow scrambled a team of shit players, a confident Schindler is class, a confident Mounie is strong, a confident Kongolo has quality. We need that back now. Well said. Perhaps pretty much a clean slate next season might be best. The top players will go and some others may be mentally scarred so need to go. Of course, we need to recruit well this summer and that is absolutely critical. We are not going to recruit really good PL players in this January transfer window, so recruit for next season if the right player becomes available (Grant). What does make me realise how far we have come though is that almost exactly 2 years ago, everyone was getting excited about signing one Collin Quaner.
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hthtafs
Iain Dunn Terrier
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Post by hthtafs on Jan 30, 2019 8:52:11 GMT 1
Thankless task for the fella. Should have kept Wagner until relegated, or brought in an interim manager until down, then brought him in IF he truly a coach of high potential.
Feels a bit like we have recruited from the Frankfurter league.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 8:54:37 GMT 1
Not I'm going to judge him after one game. He's got a mammoth task of having to turn results around quickly. If you were judging him on the one game then it feels like Wagner part 2. A cheap option 300k in compensation, absolute peanuts to a premier league club. I just feel like the club needed to change its approach, the terrier identity has long gone imo we look like little lost clueless puppies now. Me personally I'd have stuck with Hudson until the summer and then spent some money to bring Jokanovic or Koranke in. But hey ho it's done now. Hope Jan can turn it round but if we keep this up until the summer then we are in for a long arse season in the championship. Edited to make sense.
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digs
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by digs on Jan 30, 2019 9:16:24 GMT 1
“Even in the situation where Everton got the red card Adama was on his run and I think he would score then which would be the equaliser.”
😂😂😂 hes very optomistic is our Jan,Utt
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Post by townrwe on Jan 30, 2019 9:25:44 GMT 1
Sadly he wont make next season and we will spend the next 5 years appointing the Wagner way until we realise it was a one off and won't happen again. Webber was the best appointment we made and he did one because we were too tight to buy a proper striker at Xmas and ended up with quanner.
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Post by htfcsince70 on Jan 30, 2019 9:26:57 GMT 1
“Even in the situation where Everton got the red card Adama was on his run and I think he would score then which would be the equaliser.” 😂😂😂 hes very optomistic is our Jan,Utt I think their defender did him a favour - I'm pretty confident he would have missed. For what it's worth I think he is woeful, other than pace he offers nothing - Ince is a far better player and our best wide player is currently in Middlesborough. I ask again - I know it is becoming boring, but who brought these players in? I don't think any of them will fancy a cold Tuesday night at Millwall - in fact I don't think they would fancy a warm Saturday afternoon at Millwall!
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Post by htfcsince70 on Jan 30, 2019 9:33:52 GMT 1
Sadly he wont make next season and we will spend the next 5 years appointing the Wagner way until we realise it was a one off and won't happen again. Webber was the best appointment we made and he did one because we were too tight to buy a proper striker at Xmas and ended up with quanner. Couldn't agree more. I hope that they were just positive soundbites from Jan last night because if he was proud of that performance - which was one of the worst this season in my opinion - then we are in for a long season again next year. To be fair he has to work with what he has got - which isn't a great deal , especially as confidence is rock bottom. The players look scared to receive the ball and when they do receive it their options are so limited it's no wonder everything slows down and any momentum is lost. I just wonder what Julian Winter's role was/is in all of this? What exactly does he do?!?
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digs
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by digs on Jan 30, 2019 9:39:54 GMT 1
“Even in the situation where Everton got the red card Adama was on his run and I think he would score then which would be the equaliser.” 😂😂😂 hes very optomistic is our Jan,Utt I think their defender did him a favour - I'm pretty confident he would have missed. For what it's worth I think he is woeful, other than pace he offers nothing - Ince is a far better player and our best wide player is currently in Middlesborough. I ask again - I know it is becoming boring, but who brought these players in? I don't think any of them will fancy a cold Tuesday night at Millwall - in fact I don't think they would fancy a warm Saturday afternoon at Millwall! id invent a rule change,when fouled from behind when running on goal with the keeper to beat,instead of a free kick the fouled player should go one on one with the keeper from where the foul was committed,the nearest defender should have to be about 2 yard behind the player taking it,,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 9:43:21 GMT 1
Forgot to add Winter says there is not much wrong. That is where the problem lies. ll as a club there isnt
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by k1man999 on Jan 30, 2019 10:11:25 GMT 1
Feel a bit sorry for Siewert and what he has taken over. He has taken over a squad who have a losing mentality, nervy on the ball which leads to poor first touches, taking a split second too long to pass which is too long in this division, fear of giving the ball away, lacking self belief and confidence. The strange thing is these are the key points Wagner changed when he first came and we seem to have now become the total opposite. Wagner pushed self belief on the ball, confidence in the first pass, quality first touch, attack teams. Very strange to see such a transformation from his first game to his last. Siewert has to earn his money and get some confidence back to see this season out. Yes some players have been poor but they are not all poor players, we haven’t somehow scrambled a team of shit players, a confident Schindler is class, a confident Mounie is strong, a confident Kongolo has quality. We need that back now. Well said. Perhaps pretty much a clean slate next season might be best. The top players will go and some others may be mentally scarred so need to go. Of course, we need to recruit well this summer and that is absolutely critical. We are not going to recruit really good PL players in this January transfer window, so recruit for next season if the right player becomes available (Grant). What does make me realise how far we have come though is that almost exactly 2 years ago, everyone was getting excited about signing one Collin Quaner. And what an improvement he'd make now to the team with some of that shower last night
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Post by detox on Jan 30, 2019 10:24:19 GMT 1
Calmed down a bit now after last night. The verdict ? Officials crap again, Everton players milking free kicks apart...we didn't look much changed from DW's tactics..slow, pass across the back, hesitant on the ball, relucatnt to risk losing possession..forwards frustrated by lack of early passes and missing the few chances when they came..Mounie' should have buried two chances but the keppermade a good save from Mooy's free kick. Did we have a shot at all in the first half ? Conceding after 2 minutes then spend 94 minutes unable to apply any pressure ...30 minutes against 10 men ?
There is so much wrong with the players, the team, the coaching and the tactics I left the ground downhearted and disappointed. We are really a very poor team now...the fabulous performance at Wolves a distant memory.
This morning I'm thinking..give JS a chance, that's one game and he'll have noted the weaknesses..but now we're 11 points behind and Chelsea and Arsenal up next..Fulham won,Newcastle won...Burnley nearly won...but we have no character, no fight it seems. Thought the town fans did well supporting the team last night, a few moans and groans of course but a bigger turnout than I expected to see on a foul night.
As others have said, if we go down at least let's go down fighting. I won't mention individual players, others have done that, except to say Mooy won man of the match and only played 35 minutes...that says it all for me..
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Ross83
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by Ross83 on Jan 30, 2019 10:24:38 GMT 1
Jesus fucking christ, its bad on here this morning!!
The guys had just over a week with a team that's not his, he's had one game - which in my opinion was no worse than some performances this season, his way of playing is clearly different to Wagner's. We didn't have the best of luck again last night IMO but FFS lets give him a chance eh, what was he supposed to do post match? Tear strips off his new players? It's gonna take time, there weren't many improvements from Powell to Wagner in the first couple of games..
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Post by townrwe on Jan 30, 2019 10:35:49 GMT 1
Jesus fucking christ, its bad on here this morning!! The guys had just over a week with a team that's not his, he's had one game - which in my opinion was no worse than some performances this season, his way of playing is clearly different to Wagner's. We didn't have the best of luck again last night IMO but FFS lets give him a chance eh, what was he supposed to do post match? Tear strips off his new players? It's gonna take time, there weren't many improvements from Powell to Wagner in the first couple of games.. The transformation from Powell to Wagner took one game. It was totally different, we didn't win, but the style of play was evident straight away... ok the club only wanted a minor tweak in the style, but we have ended up taking up from the lowest point of David Wagner this terrible sideways sideways backwards stuff rather than getting back to day 1. Geaganpressing. The fans want geaganpressing. We are down, we could set a record for the most premier league games without a win. We are leaving the premier league as a team that played for 6 games when we first got promoted and then went into our shell for the next 70 games.. it's time to rip it up and go back to high energy, high pressing football. Let's lose 4-2 rather than 1-0. We are the arsenal.... but prefer to lose 1-0.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jan 30, 2019 10:56:01 GMT 1
Jesus fucking christ, its bad on here this morning!! The guys had just over a week with a team that's not his, he's had one game - which in my opinion was no worse than some performances this season, his way of playing is clearly different to Wagner's. We didn't have the best of luck again last night IMO but FFS lets give him a chance eh, what was he supposed to do post match? Tear strips off his new players? It's gonna take time, there weren't many improvements from Powell to Wagner in the first couple of games.. Exactly. He probably knows what a shower of shit some of them are but he aint going to get anymore out of them by slagging them off in public after one game. Its going to take time to turn this around. We're well and truly doomed this season but the time to judge whether Siewert has what it takes is several months down the line when he's had time to access what's needed and not after one game.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Jan 30, 2019 11:04:53 GMT 1
Jesus fucking christ, its bad on here this morning!! The guys had just over a week with a team that's not his, he's had one game - which in my opinion was no worse than some performances this season, his way of playing is clearly different to Wagner's. We didn't have the best of luck again last night IMO but FFS lets give him a chance eh, what was he supposed to do post match? Tear strips off his new players? It's gonna take time, there weren't many improvements from Powell to Wagner in the first couple of games.. The transformation from Powell to Wagner took one game. It was totally different, we didn't win, but the style of play was evident straight away... ok the club only wanted a minor tweak in the style, but we have ended up taking up from the lowest point of David Wagner this terrible sideways sideways backwards stuff rather than getting back to day 1. Geaganpressing. The fans want geaganpressing. We are down, we could set a record for the most premier league games without a win. We are leaving the premier league as a team that played for 6 games when we first got promoted and then went into our shell for the next 70 games.. it's time to rip it up and go back to high energy, high pressing football. Let's lose 4-2 rather than 1-0. We are the arsenal.... but prefer to lose 1-0. Siewert has said that he doesn't want horizontal (sideways) passing in his game (see training video last week). Its going to take time to get this through to a bunch of players who have been playing it sideways and backwards for the best part of 3 years. I find it incredible that some folk on here are already judging a bloke after seven days of working with what is basically a shower of shit.
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Post by artysid on Jan 30, 2019 11:05:32 GMT 1
I was optimistic until I saw the team sheet. Lack of tempo. Lack of sustained pressure. Lack of quality. Depressing. Fair enough but give me your team sheet for last night that would have provided tempo, sustained pressure, & quality
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Post by Floyds on Jan 30, 2019 11:10:36 GMT 1
His subs (lack of) last night was a concern.
When Everton went down to 10 men, they weren't playing with a striker - and the only change until the 86th minute was to bring on a defender for an attacker. Leaving us with 5 defenders, Bacuna and Puncheon holding and only Mooy, Mounie and Diakhaby as attackers.
Surely we should have sacrificed a defender (Schindler?) for Pritchard as soon as they went down to 10, with Depoitre for Kongolo soon after.
May as well lose 2 or 3 and have a go.
We're hardly going to get relegated due to our goal difference...
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Post by artysid on Jan 30, 2019 11:16:20 GMT 1
The main problem now IMO is undoubtedly confidence.
Of course our inability to score goals is crucial but up until December we were still playing decent football without scoring , now we look a shadow of our early season promise.
Last night I did see signs that the team were being encouraged to be more attack minded but for a combination of reasons ( including not yet having shed off their old slow defensive mindset) they were unable to cope with it.
PS The Lowe substitution was odd IMO
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 11:19:32 GMT 1
His subs (lack of) last night was a concern. When Everton went down to 10 men, they weren't playing with a striker - and the only change until the 86th minute was to bring on a defender for an attacker. Leaving us with 5 defenders, Bacuna and Puncheon holding and only Mooy, Mounie and Diakhaby as attackers. Surely we should have sacrificed a defender (Schindler?) for Pritchard as soon as they went down to 10, with Depoitre for Kongolo soon after. May as well lose 2 or 3 and have a go. We're hardly going to get relegated due to our goal difference... And if we had then lost 3 nil our brand new manager would have been slaughtered for his naivety. Lowe was brought on for his crossing ability, not his defensive duties.
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Post by Made In Yorkshire on Jan 30, 2019 11:19:36 GMT 1
The transformation from Powell to Wagner took one game. It was totally different, we didn't win, but the style of play was evident straight away... ok the club only wanted a minor tweak in the style, but we have ended up taking up from the lowest point of David Wagner this terrible sideways sideways backwards stuff rather than getting back to day 1. Geaganpressing. The fans want geaganpressing. We are down, we could set a record for the most premier league games without a win. We are leaving the premier league as a team that played for 6 games when we first got promoted and then went into our shell for the next 70 games.. it's time to rip it up and go back to high energy, high pressing football. Let's lose 4-2 rather than 1-0. We are the arsenal.... but prefer to lose 1-0. Siewert has said that he doesn't want horizontal (sideways) passing in his game (see training video last week). Its going to take time to get this through to a bunch of players who have been playing it sideways and backwards for the best part of 3 years. I find it incredible that some folk on here are already judging a bloke after seven days of working with what is basically a shower of shit. Agree. In many respects, if you accept we are now going to be relegated we have the luxury of 15 games in which to rebuild and create a new playing style.
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Post by Made In Yorkshire on Jan 30, 2019 11:22:58 GMT 1
His subs (lack of) last night was a concern. When Everton went down to 10 men, they weren't playing with a striker - and the only change until the 86th minute was to bring on a defender for an attacker. Leaving us with 5 defenders, Bacuna and Puncheon holding and only Mooy, Mounie and Diakhaby as attackers. Surely we should have sacrificed a defender (Schindler?) for Pritchard as soon as they went down to 10, with Depoitre for Kongolo soon after. May as well lose 2 or 3 and have a go. We're hardly going to get relegated due to our goal difference... And if we had then lost 3 nil our brand new manager would have been slaughtered for his naivety. Lowe was brought on for his crossing ability, not his defensive duties. Agree. Plus Siewert has had chance to maybe, through training, to encourage Lowe to play in a different way. Anyone else notice how Schindler was pushing well forward too during attacks?
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Post by townrwe on Jan 30, 2019 11:26:23 GMT 1
The transformation from Powell to Wagner took one game. It was totally different, we didn't win, but the style of play was evident straight away... ok the club only wanted a minor tweak in the style, but we have ended up taking up from the lowest point of David Wagner this terrible sideways sideways backwards stuff rather than getting back to day 1. Geaganpressing. The fans want geaganpressing. We are down, we could set a record for the most premier league games without a win. We are leaving the premier league as a team that played for 6 games when we first got promoted and then went into our shell for the next 70 games.. it's time to rip it up and go back to high energy, high pressing football. Let's lose 4-2 rather than 1-0. We are the arsenal.... but prefer to lose 1-0. Siewert has said that he doesn't want horizontal (sideways) passing in his game (see training video last week). Its going to take time to get this through to a bunch of players who have been playing it sideways and backwards for the best part of 3 years. I find it incredible that some folk on here are already judging a bloke after seven days of working with what is basically a shower of shit. Not judging him, but he can't have made it clear enough not to pass backwards as we seemed to do it more than before if anything. Let's see what Chelsea brings now he has seen first hand how they have interpreted his instructions. When Wagner came In was like the transformation we saw in Southampton but without the results... I had hoped to see "abit" more after 4 days in Portugal. It seems more of the same so far.
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Post by Floyds on Jan 30, 2019 11:31:14 GMT 1
His subs (lack of) last night was a concern. When Everton went down to 10 men, they weren't playing with a striker - and the only change until the 86th minute was to bring on a defender for an attacker. Leaving us with 5 defenders, Bacuna and Puncheon holding and only Mooy, Mounie and Diakhaby as attackers. Surely we should have sacrificed a defender (Schindler?) for Pritchard as soon as they went down to 10, with Depoitre for Kongolo soon after. May as well lose 2 or 3 and have a go. We're hardly going to get relegated due to our goal difference... And if we had then lost 3 nil our brand new manager would have been slaughtered for his naivety. Lowe was brought on for his crossing ability, not his defensive duties. I only noticed Loewe do one thing - and that was shank it well over the bar at the start of injury time - left straight after. I'm not sure - had we at least attacked and had a go then that's an improvement. Holding on to a 1-0 defeat by playing 5 defenders and two holding midfielders against 10 men is a depressing tactic.
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Post by oldrain on Jan 30, 2019 11:45:27 GMT 1
Shoot shoot shoot - it’s the only way we are going to get anywhere this season and next hopefully the new lad will start this change Last night we had at least 10 chances to shoot but declined them all it’s the main reason you play the game not passing on halfway line Shoot follow up and repeat for 90 minutes need to get crowd back onside UTT
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