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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 16:55:50 GMT 1
Interesting. He's no mug. Very clever bloke, very smart businessman. Yes he's a fan but he saw the potential, too. You pick some very odd people to have a go at. Mooy, now Dean...who is next? Herbert Chapman? Boothy? Mother Theresa? Piers Morgan?
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on Apr 9, 2019 16:57:59 GMT 1
Some back of a fag packet maths is that. True though innit Not really. Our promotion season and the season previously that I did about 40 away games plus every home game and it didn’t cost me £5k.
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Post by gymroidspump on Apr 9, 2019 17:00:20 GMT 1
Not really. Our promotion season and the season previously that I did about 40 away games plus every home game and it didn’t cost me £5k. How much did it cost you?
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Post by townatheart on Apr 9, 2019 17:12:22 GMT 1
Not really. Our promotion season and the season previously that I did about 40 away games plus every home game and it didn’t cost me £5k. How much did it cost you? Look if you spent 5k a season following Town, more power to you. And I would hesitate to say that you are likely to be in a minority of one (outside of course of otium who definitely would have out spent anybody ). But if I had to guess, you are either on an ongoing wind up, or as the old saying goes "a fool and their money soon part ways". Either way, good luck to you lad
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Post by benhomly on Apr 9, 2019 17:15:14 GMT 1
I was continuing your initial hypothetical comparison forwards of someone spending 5k of their earning vs someone spending 10% of their personal fortune a year for 10 years. I’ve no idea what any actual person has spent and it’s not really any of my business. "Deano" will be fine, stop crying We know he'll be fine. Nothing wrong with showing a bit of respect to the man who has given us something we never thought we'd ever see though. That's Premier League football if you're not bright enough to realise what I meant.
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Post by The Sheriff Strikes Back on Apr 9, 2019 17:21:01 GMT 1
Some back of a fag packet maths is that. True though innit Is it Fuck
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on Apr 9, 2019 17:22:11 GMT 1
Not really. Our promotion season and the season previously that I did about 40 away games plus every home game and it didn’t cost me £5k. How much did it cost you? Not 5k.
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Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Apr 9, 2019 17:54:40 GMT 1
Be careful what you wish for. Bolton Bradford Leeds Portsmouth Sunderland Ipswich Sheffield Wednesday Just a few examples of clubs run badly by wealthy people. Wealth means nothing if run the wrong way. Dean is worth more than money imo. Right now we need stability. Add Birmingham and Reading into that little mix. Add Huddersfield Town to the list ie under Mr Rubery = administration
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Post by gymroidspump on Apr 9, 2019 18:09:05 GMT 1
I have £20 and I spend a fiver You have £100 and you spend £25 Same thing, maaaaaan
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Post by El Mel on Apr 9, 2019 18:37:37 GMT 1
I have £20 and I spend a fiver You have £100 and you spend £25 Same thing, maaaaaan Except it's not the same at all. You're spend is proportionate to your wealth. Dean Hoyle probably started out with about a fivers worth of greetings cards when he was an apprentice at Brighouse Engineering, so he'll definitely know the true value of his brass, and a £50M investment in a football club with no guarantee of any return (pretty unlikely if we are being honest) is fuck all like what the average fan spends a season.
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Post by Captainslapper on Apr 9, 2019 23:40:22 GMT 1
Firstly who has said this general sorrow and distress for DH - I just haven't seen it! As for getting his money back - if you are able to read the accounts they will show that he is currently "owed" about £49,404,343 - this is money he has put into the club without any return thus far - That will come via a sale if the expected takeover occurs. If i had £500m in the bank, plus more probably, with interest, clever accountants, £49.404,343 wouldn't really bother me all that much Club is in better shape than when he took over, MUCH better shape in fact. He'll recoup his money no worries, probably a bit more besides. Why do you presume to know how much money he has in the bank?
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Post by Big Ern on Apr 9, 2019 23:43:03 GMT 1
I've never quite understood why people on here get their knickers in a twist about what Dean Hoyle has spent. It's his business, not yours and has fuck all to do with any of us. If he does or doesnt get his money back again is not relevant. Our job is to follow the team and support the club. Wind your necks in
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Post by ritchie on Apr 10, 2019 3:01:18 GMT 1
I was continuing your initial hypothetical comparison forwards of someone spending 5k of their earning vs someone spending 10% of their personal fortune a year for 10 years. I’ve no idea what any actual person has spent and it’s not really any of my business. "Deano" will be fine, stop crying interesting that when you search 'Deano' on this forum it comes up with very few posts, this from 2012 aside- Why can't we question what 'Deano' is doing? Yet whilst ken Davy was in charge every decision was scrutinized? from a poster who joined the forum in 2009 in a thread "Ken Davy and HTAFC shares: Explained" defending davy over the shares, with this post As a bit of a lurker this topic has finally drawn me into posting. I respect the amount of effort that people are putting into getting to the bottom of this shares issue it is clearly something that needs to be done. There are a couple of points that I am struggling to get clear in my head that i’ll try to explain. When town went into administration is it not reasonable to expect them to lose control of their major asset the share of the stadium. Much in the same way if I went bankrupt I would not expect to keep hold of my house. This obviously slightly confused by the fact that the stadium is worthless without town. Would I be right in thinking that the stadium shares were given a nominal value in order to encourage investors who would otherwise have to pay out the money owed by town (ken monkous wage etc!) without getting anything in return. My other thought on the matter is that as has been pointed out the stadium without town is just one big white elephant. A successful town would lead to increased profits and exposure for the stadium so therefore is it not in everybody's interests to ensure town are successful? As for profits from the stadium how significant would these really be and is it just convenient to have all these services provided by an outide caterer. Well done if you’ve read all that I’m sure it’s mostly complete drivel and been raked over thousands of times already haha! and you joined with this post in 2019 in the "Dean Selling Up?" thread I'm a long time lurker. I only registered the other day because this forum looked like it had switched to private, with no access to it other than being a registered member. I used to come on here now and then. 5 minutes was enough. Sometimes I'd last longer than 5 minutes especially if the meltdowns were funny enough. I think when Wagner left many on here could have possibly been diagnosed with Stockholm Syndrome. Back to topic, I suppose. This is my first post, afterall. I think he should sell, I'm sure he is well positioned to make that call himself, however. The journey is never ending. Thanks to all who have been part of it. It does feel like a new chapter is about to start. I'm excited. UTT seems someone has an axe to grind? all your posts are negative/critical of hoyle
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Post by gymroidspump on Apr 10, 2019 6:48:34 GMT 1
"Deano" will be fine, stop crying interesting that when you search 'Deano' on this forum it comes up with very few posts, this from 2012 aside- Why can't we question what 'Deano' is doing? Yet whilst ken Davy was in charge every decision was scrutinized? from a poster who joined the forum in 2009 in a thread "Ken Davy and HTAFC shares: Explained" defending davy over the shares, with this post As a bit of a lurker this topic has finally drawn me into posting. I respect the amount of effort that people are putting into getting to the bottom of this shares issue it is clearly something that needs to be done. There are a couple of points that I am struggling to get clear in my head that i’ll try to explain. When town went into administration is it not reasonable to expect them to lose control of their major asset the share of the stadium. Much in the same way if I went bankrupt I would not expect to keep hold of my house. This obviously slightly confused by the fact that the stadium is worthless without town. Would I be right in thinking that the stadium shares were given a nominal value in order to encourage investors who would otherwise have to pay out the money owed by town (ken monkous wage etc!) without getting anything in return. My other thought on the matter is that as has been pointed out the stadium without town is just one big white elephant. A successful town would lead to increased profits and exposure for the stadium so therefore is it not in everybody's interests to ensure town are successful? As for profits from the stadium how significant would these really be and is it just convenient to have all these services provided by an outide caterer. Well done if you’ve read all that I’m sure it’s mostly complete drivel and been raked over thousands of times already haha! and you joined with this post in 2019 in the "Dean Selling Up?" thread I'm a long time lurker. I only registered the other day because this forum looked like it had switched to private, with no access to it other than being a registered member. I used to come on here now and then. 5 minutes was enough. Sometimes I'd last longer than 5 minutes especially if the meltdowns were funny enough. I think when Wagner left many on here could have possibly been diagnosed with Stockholm Syndrome. Back to topic, I suppose. This is my first post, afterall. I think he should sell, I'm sure he is well positioned to make that call himself, however. The journey is never ending. Thanks to all who have been part of it. It does feel like a new chapter is about to start. I'm excited. UTT seems someone has an axe to grind? all your posts are negative/critical of hoyle Really? How long did it take you to put that together? There's no agenda or axe to grind. Didn't Hoyle himself say on the quiet he wanted to take Town to the top, so he's only done what he said he would. If you believe he bought the Club solely because he wanted to save it from going under i would say you're naive. He's a very shrewd business man, he saw an opportunity to exploit and went for it. Big risk but what business start up isn't? He will leave with more money in his pocket than when he started 10 years ago. Make no mistake. Good for him, a crazy decade of ups and downs. Just my opinion
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goodbet
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Post by goodbet on Apr 10, 2019 7:53:48 GMT 1
If it was all for the money, then I am sure that the return on the investment and the ten years of what must have been at times a hard slog, would be considered a poor return.
I have followed town a long time and if I had the opportunity (and means) to take over the reigns at town I think that I would pass. I think that Dean has had a relatively smooth ride because he has moved the club forward and this has been appreciated by the fans (in the main, anyway). We have all seen other successful businessmen that have tried at a list of clubs and the result there have be a miserable failure for those clubs and the businessmen’s own personal wealth. It was their choice to get in to the game and as a result not many fans have too much sympathy with their loss. In Deans case, I personally believe that he deserves some payback for taking the club from where it was ten years ago and leaving it where it currently is. It is just a pity that this last year has been a bit of a disaster and we are not where we hoped we would be.
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Post by bluestripe on Apr 10, 2019 8:21:06 GMT 1
Tbf, Rubery could've finished us if he'd gone after what we owed him Rubery was no fool and he certainly didn't do anything to help town in our demise. He just used Town's administration as a huge tax write off and would have ended up profiting from the situation. You do realise that a tax write off means you have also lost money. £10m loss does not mean you can claim £10m against tax. Sure he'd recover a proportion of the money against other taxable profits.
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Post by bridgeterrier on Apr 10, 2019 8:40:07 GMT 1
5k a season watching Town seems a bit excessive, I did every game back in 2009/10 season and worked out it had cost me about £3k and that covered 55matches, transport and overnight accommodation
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ben1987
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Post by ben1987 on Apr 10, 2019 10:19:39 GMT 1
interesting that when you search 'Deano' on this forum it comes up with very few posts, this from 2012 aside- from a poster who joined the forum in 2009 in a thread "Ken Davy and HTAFC shares: Explained" defending davy over the shares, with this post and you joined with this post in 2019 in the "Dean Selling Up?" thread seems someone has an axe to grind? all your posts are negative/critical of hoyle Really? How long did it take you to put that together? There's no agenda or axe to grind. Didn't Hoyle himself say on the quiet he wanted to take Town to the top, so he's only done what he said he would. If you believe he bought the Club solely because he wanted to save it from going under i would say you're naive. He's a very shrewd business man, he saw an opportunity to exploit and went for it. Big risk but what business start up isn't? He will leave with more money in his pocket than when he started 10 years ago. Make no mistake. Good for him, a crazy decade of ups and downs. Just my opinion You’ve been rumbled.
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Post by gymroidspump on Apr 10, 2019 10:50:06 GMT 1
Really? How long did it take you to put that together? There's no agenda or axe to grind. Didn't Hoyle himself say on the quiet he wanted to take Town to the top, so he's only done what he said he would. If you believe he bought the Club solely because he wanted to save it from going under i would say you're naive. He's a very shrewd business man, he saw an opportunity to exploit and went for it. Big risk but what business start up isn't? He will leave with more money in his pocket than when he started 10 years ago. Make no mistake. Good for him, a crazy decade of ups and downs. Just my opinion You’ve been rumbled. Oh, have i, Inspector Clouseau! Anything to add apart from that?
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Apr 10, 2019 11:00:27 GMT 1
Oh, have i, Inspector Clouseau! Anything to add apart from that? Are you head of sales for Clintons?
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Post by ritchie on Apr 10, 2019 11:19:10 GMT 1
interesting that when you search 'Deano' on this forum it comes up with very few posts, this from 2012 aside- from a poster who joined the forum in 2009 in a thread "Ken Davy and HTAFC shares: Explained" defending davy over the shares, with this post and you joined with this post in 2019 in the "Dean Selling Up?" thread seems someone has an axe to grind? all your posts are negative/critical of hoyle Really? How long did it take you to put that together? There's no agenda or axe to grind. Didn't Hoyle himself say on the quiet he wanted to take Town to the top, so he's only done what he said he would. If you believe he bought the Club solely because he wanted to save it from going under i would say you're naive. He's a very shrewd business man, he saw an opportunity to exploit and went for it. Big risk but what business start up isn't? He will leave with more money in his pocket than when he started 10 years ago. Make no mistake. Good for him, a crazy decade of ups and downs. Just my opinion about 5 minutes
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Post by royrace on Apr 10, 2019 11:32:42 GMT 1
Not sure this talk of Dean and money is even relevant, he came into this fully expecting to lose money as far as I can tell and knew what he could afford to lose. I would think the long term future of HTAFC, the charities and his legacy will be way more important to him than recouping the £50m or whatever the figure is.
His health is of course a biggie and may be driving any decision he may have made, I guess the club is as saleable now as it ever will be and that together with his health scare may mean he's keen.
I'm not sure what anyone would see in the club though to be perfectly honest, I'm no an expert on football finance but could anyone ever expect to make money from Town from them being a successful club on the field? I don't see it but hope I'm wrong, more likely a vanity project for a billionaire. I suppose it doesn't always go badly when you look at what the Leicester chairman did for them. Just got to hope to avoid some crackpot coming along wanting to change the colours and the name of the club, the cartoon dog was bad enough this season!
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Post by CaptainHart on Apr 10, 2019 11:41:46 GMT 1
Not sure this talk of Dean and money is even relevant, he came into this fully expecting to lose money as far as I can tell and knew what he could afford to lose. I would think the long term future of HTAFC, the charities and his legacy will be way more important to him than recouping the £50m or whatever the figure is. His health is of course a biggie and may be driving any decision he may have made, I guess the club is as saleable now as it ever will be and that together with his health scare may mean he's keen. I'm not sure what anyone would see in the club though to be perfectly honest, I'm no an expert on football finance but could anyone ever expect to make money from Town from them being a successful club on the field? I don't see it but hope I'm wrong, more likely a vanity project for a billionaire. I suppose it doesn't always go badly when you look at what the Leicester chairman did for them. Just got to hope to avoid some crackpot coming along wanting to change the colours and the name of the club, the cartoon dog was bad enough this season! Like you I can't think of any reason why anybody but a fan would want to buy us.
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Post by ritchie on Apr 10, 2019 12:01:22 GMT 1
think actually we would be a bargain if someone wanted a club to take to the PL. we might be a bit of a mess in terms of squad shape but off the field we are in good shape and the squad still holds value - its probably worth more than the cost of buying the club would be. then when you consider parachute payments, a 20m training ground and us being a debt free championship club thats getting 20k fans....doubt there are too many clubs you could say that for? we might not own the stadium but we own some of it, and when do the rent payments end?
A buyer probably wouldnt have to invest any of his own money for the next few years and we will be in with a shout of promotion just because of parachute payments. chuck in a few quid and we could be one of the top spenders
sunderland are obviously a much bigger club but how much debt were they in? and they were no where near as close to a PL return as us.. fan base doesnt mean too much if you're getting tv money in the PL
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 12:07:47 GMT 1
think actually we would be a bargain if someone wanted a club to take to the PL. we might be a bit of a mess in terms of squad shape but off the field we are in good shape and the squad still holds value - its probably worth more than the cost of buying the club would be. then when you consider parachute payments, a 20m training ground and us being a debt free championship club thats getting 20k fans....doubt there are too many clubs you could say that for? we might not own the stadium but we own some of it, and when do the rent payments end? A buyer probably wouldnt have to invest any of his own money for the next few years and we will be in with a shout of promotion just because of parachute payments. chuck in a few quid and we could be one of the top spenders sunderland are obviously a much bigger club but how much debt were they in? and they were no where near as close to a PL return as us.. fan base doesnt mean too much if you're getting tv money in the PL Just one tbing I'm not sure of, tbat £20 million training ground is Deans property. Available to rent at a reasonable price. I doubt it could be bought at that price.
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Post by Solihull Terrier on Apr 10, 2019 12:46:45 GMT 1
Rubery was no fool and he certainly didn't do anything to help town in our demise. He just used Town's administration as a huge tax write off and would have ended up profiting from the situation. You do realise that a tax write off means you have also lost money. £10m loss does not mean you can claim £10m against tax. Sure he'd recover a proportion of the money against other taxable profits. I'm an accountant, so yes. He cleverly setup his loans so that when we into administration the value owed to him quadrupled, i.e. far more than he ever put in to the club. He could therefore use this inflated write off to reduce his tax bill in the following years. The net impact bring that he didn't lose a penny from his entire involvement in Town. Whilst we suffered enormously for his reckless gambles. So I always bristle when people suggest Rubery was benevolent in some way when we reached our darkest hour. He was nothing of the sort.
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Sabre
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Post by Sabre on Apr 10, 2019 13:18:24 GMT 1
You do realise that a tax write off means you have also lost money. £10m loss does not mean you can claim £10m against tax. Sure he'd recover a proportion of the money against other taxable profits. I'm an accountant, so yes. He cleverly setup his loans so that when we into administration the value owed to him quadrupled, i.e. far more than he ever put in to the club. He could therefore use this inflated write off to reduce his tax bill in the following years. The net impact bring that he didn't lose a penny from his entire involvement in Town. Whilst we suffered enormously for his reckless gambles. So I always bristle when people suggest Rubery was benevolent in some way when we reached our darkest hour. He was nothing of the sort. Bluestripe.... owned!!✌️
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Post by Mecha Corte on Apr 10, 2019 13:34:21 GMT 1
You do realise that a tax write off means you have also lost money. £10m loss does not mean you can claim £10m against tax. Sure he'd recover a proportion of the money against other taxable profits. I'm an accountant, so yes. He cleverly setup his loans so that when we into administration the value owed to him quadrupled, i.e. far more than he ever put in to the club. He could therefore use this inflated write off to reduce his tax bill in the following years. The net impact bring that he didn't lose a penny from his entire involvement in Town. Whilst we suffered enormously for his reckless gambles. So I always bristle when people suggest Rubery was benevolent in some way when we reached our darkest hour. He was nothing of the sort. To be fair I've always had more of a problem with Ian Ayre than Rubery, who would be the first to admit not only he wasn't a Town fan but he knew nothing about football, the appointment of the Scouse, Marcus Stuart selling git was supposed to cover those bases for him. It's also worth remembering that the huge debts we ran up during has ownership were all down to him, under Keith Longbottom we couldn't and indeed wouldn't have spent the money. It's no point being a regular customer at Matalan, than having a wild spending spree in Harrods then complaining you get afford to clear your MasterCard bill.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Apr 10, 2019 14:15:35 GMT 1
I'm an accountant, so yes. He cleverly setup his loans so that when we into administration the value owed to him quadrupled, i.e. far more than he ever put in to the club. He could therefore use this inflated write off to reduce his tax bill in the following years. The net impact bring that he didn't lose a penny from his entire involvement in Town. Whilst we suffered enormously for his reckless gambles. So I always bristle when people suggest Rubery was benevolent in some way when we reached our darkest hour. He was nothing of the sort. Bluestripe.... owned!!✌️ 😂😂😂
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2019 15:12:44 GMT 1
think actually we would be a bargain if someone wanted a club to take to the PL. we might be a bit of a mess in terms of squad shape but off the field we are in good shape and the squad still holds value - its probably worth more than the cost of buying the club would be. then when you consider parachute payments, a 20m training ground and us being a debt free championship club thats getting 20k fans....doubt there are too many clubs you could say that for? we might not own the stadium but we own some of it, and when do the rent payments end? A buyer probably wouldnt have to invest any of his own money for the next few years and we will be in with a shout of promotion just because of parachute payments. chuck in a few quid and we could be one of the top spenders sunderland are obviously a much bigger club but how much debt were they in? and they were no where near as close to a PL return as us.. fan base doesnt mean too much if you're getting tv money in the PL Just one tbing I'm not sure of, tbat £20 million training ground is Deans property. Available to rent at a reasonable price. I doubt it could be bought at that price. Its a long way from being a £20m training ground at the moment isn’t it...it’s a £2m training ground with the potential to become a £20m training ground. So...If someone/something is going through the process of buying the club and Canalside (Dean is documented to have said that the 40% stadium shares that the club holds would be moved into trust (which hasn’t happened yet) ahead of a sale of the club, and that Canalside would be available either for ‘reasonable rent’ or could form part of the overall package), I doubt anything other than the book value plus possibly some of the shareholder debt of Canalside would be met...so some amount probably around £1.5m would secure its ownership. It’s likely a relative formality, but no decision has been made on the planning application as yet...so there’s not even a guarantee that it will be ALLOWED to transform into a £20m facility. www.kirklees.gov.uk/beta/planning-applications/search-for-planning-applications/detail.aspx?id=2018/93740
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