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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:32:51 GMT 1
Post by specialun on Nov 29, 2008 13:32:51 GMT 1
First of all, he isn't steven gerrard, he'll never score 20 a season, his passing has improved but deco won't be losing sleep at night and he can be rash in the tackle. All fair points. However, love him and rate him, hate him and don't rate in, the FACTS are that (yet again - as per last season, and the season before) our record when worthy plays is far far far superior than when he doesn't.The stats (yer but, no but, worthy's got ginger hair but, he can't shoot but....etc - forget it....and yes stats/facts can be interpreted but when there as black and white as this its about time some posters took off their glasses supported the lad and think more about the team. No I in team but these suggest there should be worthy - perhaps not the best 'I', or technically gifted individual but who cares if he benefits the team................... He might not be a world beater (certainly isn't), he might not be good enough to get us promoted - but with the players we have, he should be playing: - The statsOur results in the periods below...i.e.
Worthy starts - the result whilst he was on the pitch, e.g. if taken off after 60 mins, the score at that point.
Worthy comes on as a sub - the score in the period he comes on as a sub.
Worthy does not start - score whilst off pitch...could be whole game, could be the 60 mins before he comes on.
Taken off - Score after taken off. Pretty simple really.
Points - The points totals on both are somehwat reduced due to high amount of draws eg) when taken off after 60 minutes, more likely to be level, or if on for 15 minutes, chances are the score will be level in that time. But helps compare worthy v no worthy. 1) Worthy is on the pitchWorthy starts: P14, W5, D7, L2 - PTS: 22 Worthy comes on as a sub: P6, W1, D5, L0 - PTS: 8 Overall: P20, W6, D12, L2 - PTS 302) Worthy is not on the pitchGames not started: P8, W1, D2, L5 : PTS 5 When taken off: P7, W1, D2, L4 : PTS 5 Overall: P15, W2, D4, L9 : PTS 10Now, sorry for all you worthy haters, but I think those are pretty clear. Even stevie wonder can see his importance on the team despite many posters opinion's on here! If you can't understand - Worthy on the pitch: Lost 2 out of 20 Worthy not on the pitch: Lost 9 out of 15.
Worthy starts - when on pitch: 22 points from 14 - would put us 9th Worthy does not start - wjen not on pitch: 5 points from 8 - relegation form, puts us 23rd Which do you prefer? Its not that difficult to see is it!! Rant over
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:38:11 GMT 1
Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Nov 29, 2008 13:38:11 GMT 1
Impressive statistics, amazing tbh, his finishing and shooting is chronic but he obviously is vital for us to get the results, very interesting numbers indeed !
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Deleted
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:39:06 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2008 13:39:06 GMT 1
Its about midfield team balance and Worthy provides that. Collins, Craney, Flynn, Roberts and others don't get in the opposition players face enough but clearly bring other aspects. Someone has to do the work to allow others to play, Worthy give us that.
God help the new manager if he picks Worthy though as some posters on here would have him hung drawn and quartered - I think that Allardyce would though!
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:41:48 GMT 1
Post by pozza on Nov 29, 2008 13:41:48 GMT 1
Interesting stats, fair play for taking the time to research them all.
In a midfield 3, i'd still play Goodwin, Craney & Collins though.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:43:47 GMT 1
Post by Tez on Nov 29, 2008 13:43:47 GMT 1
Effort for getting all the stats etc to put them all together.
I'd probably have Worthy, Craney and Collins in a midfield trio.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:44:57 GMT 1
Post by Lard Buttie on Nov 29, 2008 13:44:57 GMT 1
I think the criticisms of JW are more about the ''favouritism' that seems to exist at he club more than a personal attack of JW.
For what its worth, at times JW has great games for Town, other times not so great, but thats been our problem for ages now - lack of consistency.
If we go 1 down in a game now I dont feel as hopeful of us turning the game and going on to win it.
The last time we seemed capable of that was under Jacko.
At present we can be a goal up and I still get the feeling we could lose the game.
ST ruffled a few feathers when he arrived and to a certain extent believe that he was right about trying to breed a winning mentality and shaking things up a bit behind the scenes, however he used a howitzer when a pea shooter would have been more suitable.
I dont think the majority of Town fans think that JW is shyte, or Collins for that matter its just that they dont seem to have developed into better players considering the promise they showed when they first came on the scene.
Our problem is we lack leadership BOTH on & off the field.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:47:21 GMT 1
Post by pozza on Nov 29, 2008 13:47:21 GMT 1
IMO, if were playing a midfield 3, then the choice the manger has to make is between Goodwin & Worthy.
The other players (Collins, Flynn, Goodwin, Roberts) are all of a different style to Worthy & Goodwin. You couldn't really play Goodwin or Worthy in any other the other rules due to them not being able to score (or even hit the target ;D )
In a 3-5-2 formation you effectively got 2 sets of "midfield" and we've got competition for each one, which can only be a good thing.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:48:38 GMT 1
Post by specialun on Nov 29, 2008 13:48:38 GMT 1
What I didn't say is that I'd have actually played goodwin on Tues as well! Even I'd agree that the form is more important than the stats - but the stats illustrate the importance of worthy even if he aint the best individual player we have.
Gerry got criticised for taking off craney and bringing on worthy when chasing a goal on tues. Most people would accept craney is more likely to score than worthy, but if you ahven't got the ball, nobody can score! He did the same thing at leeds when craney (and collins) were not in it - but nobody complained then when it was 1-1 and he did the same thing and we won!
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Deleted
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:50:14 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2008 13:50:14 GMT 1
What i want to know is what does he do in training. Has he ever worked on the weaker aspects of his game such as shooting and passing or does he just work on his fitness and perfecting his sliding
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midge
Andy Booth Terrier
[M0:5]
Posts: 3,426
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 13:53:44 GMT 1
Post by midge on Nov 29, 2008 13:53:44 GMT 1
Stats are stats Specialun.....and we know how you love 'em!!!! I think your stats prove that we need a holding type midfielder in the team and then the debate would move on to whether that be Worthy or A N other!!!! You could use your stats in another way, your famous win % and say that even with him in the team that is less than 30% which is ultimately not gonna see us out of this division!!! I personally don't mind Worthy but I think he needs to up his game this season!!!!!
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 14:12:35 GMT 1
Post by TomTheTerrier on Nov 29, 2008 14:12:35 GMT 1
Good effort specialun!
But it would be a bit clearer if we knew the formations played when Worthy didn't feature, and if someone else was employed in the holding role instead or not.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 14:13:22 GMT 1
Post by galph on Nov 29, 2008 14:13:22 GMT 1
Stats can be spun any way you like - on this occasion you have spun them to your favour.
I would take from your stats that overall we are not very effective with Worthy in such a crucial position in our team so that is a key area that needs addressing. Whether we are even less effective when he doesnt play is irrelevant.
You also are not addressing the question of whether within the club we have a better option. Simply saying when he doesnt play we are worse takes into account every other combination, many of which will have been unsuccesful, mashed together wtc.
It is hard to compare others to do the same job because they have not had the same opportunity as he has because of the blind faith in him (imo) so the true comparison of his worth cannot be seen.
I have nothing against him because I love the fact that out of all the town he appears to me as a fan to care most. However for me this is not enough on its own - I think he is a useful squad member to have but he wouldnt be in my first 11 because at this level (and higher where we want to go) I dont think he is good enough consistently and wont improve further.
But that is football for you - all about opinions.
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Deleted
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 14:35:15 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2008 14:35:15 GMT 1
I'm a big Worthy fan, the stats speak for themselves. But Goodwin has earned the shirt at the moment. I'm sure Worthington will be back in the team before too long though
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 14:37:09 GMT 1
Post by specialun on Nov 29, 2008 14:37:09 GMT 1
Good effort specialun! But it would be a bit clearer if we knew the formations played when Worthy didn't feature, and if someone else was employed in the holding role instead or not. How long do you think I've got
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 16:03:55 GMT 1
Post by shawsie on Nov 29, 2008 16:03:55 GMT 1
Points well made specialun - but as midge has already said, during that period we have been inconsistent to say the least!!! I am more interested in getting a side together capable of getting out of this league. If worthy features in that then great and some of us will eat humble pie - we have been where we are now though for 3 years+ and are no nearer in reality.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 16:54:06 GMT 1
Post by CaptainHart on Nov 29, 2008 16:54:06 GMT 1
we have been where we are now though for 3 years+ and are no nearer in reality. If we finish where we did 2 and a half years ago, I’ll be happy.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 17:09:56 GMT 1
Post by Grandfather Berty of Cleck on Nov 29, 2008 17:09:56 GMT 1
Interesting stats, fair play for taking the time to research them all. In a midfield 3, i'd still play Goodwin, Craney & Collins though. I knew at least ONE person would prefer us to lose
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 17:27:05 GMT 1
Post by thrice on Nov 29, 2008 17:27:05 GMT 1
A buch of stats will not convince me that he is a player.
Care to pull up the same stats for the rest of our midfield please?
I bet they could make Malv look like a world beater.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 18:07:50 GMT 1
Post by pozza on Nov 29, 2008 18:07:50 GMT 1
Interesting stats, fair play for taking the time to research them all. In a midfield 3, i'd still play Goodwin, Craney & Collins though. I knew at least ONE person would prefer us to lose
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 18:14:46 GMT 1
Post by Tez on Nov 29, 2008 18:14:46 GMT 1
Berty obviously doesn't like one of your midfield Trios Poz. Unlucky.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 18:17:37 GMT 1
Post by pozza on Nov 29, 2008 18:17:37 GMT 1
Where did it say I wanted us to lose though I didn't realise Worthington played on his own. Yes the stats state we win more with him, but im pretty certain we are capable with winning without him as well. Stats are stats I know, but there are so many other factors to take into consideration, especially in Football.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 18:21:10 GMT 1
Post by Tez on Nov 29, 2008 18:21:10 GMT 1
You didn't put that we would lose mate. It's clear to see that she doesn't rate maybe Goodwin but she rates Worthy. Worthy aint in your selection hence the dig.
Those stats are impressive but are maybe spun in Worthys favour.
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 18:24:47 GMT 1
Post by pozza on Nov 29, 2008 18:24:47 GMT 1
Each to thier own I suppose. In a holding midfield role Goodwin would do a better job than Worthy, just my opinion though. I'm happy for others to think otherwise
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 18:29:50 GMT 1
Post by shawsie on Nov 29, 2008 18:29:50 GMT 1
Where did it say I wanted us to lose though I didn't realise Worthington played on his own. Yes the stats state we win more with him, but im pretty certain we are capable with winning without him as well. Stats are stats I know, but there are so many other factors to take into consideration, especially in Football. Dead right pozza - we finished 10th last season but were in the bottom 6/8 until late on, and we are currently 14th nearer the relegation spots than promotion. That should be the only stat to bother about - after all as town fans we all want promotion to a better league!
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 19:19:04 GMT 1
Post by specialun on Nov 29, 2008 19:19:04 GMT 1
A buch of stats will not convince me that he is a player. Care to pull up the same stats for the rest of our midfield please? I bet they could make Malv look like a world beater. I will indeed, just give me a few days!
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 21:38:17 GMT 1
Post by Captainslapper on Nov 29, 2008 21:38:17 GMT 1
First of all, he isn't steven gerrard, he'll never score 20 a season, his passing has improved but deco won't be losing sleep at night and he can be rash in the tackle. All fair points. However, love him and rate him, hate him and don't rate in, the FACTS are that (yet again - as per last season, and the season before) our record when worthy plays is far far far superior than when he doesn't.The stats (yer but, no but, worthy's got ginger hair but, he can't shoot but....etc - forget it....and yes stats/facts can be interpreted but when there as black and white as this its about time some posters took off their glasses supported the lad and think more about the team. No I in team but these suggest there should be worthy - perhaps not the best 'I', or technically gifted individual but who cares if he benefits the team................... He might not be a world beater (certainly isn't), he might not be good enough to get us promoted - but with the players we have, he should be playing: - The statsOur results in the periods below...i.e.
Worthy starts - the result whilst he was on the pitch, e.g. if taken off after 60 mins, the score at that point.
Worthy comes on as a sub - the score in the period he comes on as a sub.
Worthy does not start - score whilst off pitch...could be whole game, could be the 60 mins before he comes on.
Taken off - Score after taken off. Pretty simple really.
Points - The points totals on both are somehwat reduced due to high amount of draws eg) when taken off after 60 minutes, more likely to be level, or if on for 15 minutes, chances are the score will be level in that time. But helps compare worthy v no worthy. 1) Worthy is on the pitchWorthy starts: P14, W5, D7, L2 - PTS: 22 Worthy comes on as a sub: P6, W1, D5, L0 - PTS: 8 Overall: P20, W6, D12, L2 - PTS 302) Worthy is not on the pitchGames not started: P8, W1, D2, L5 : PTS 5 When taken off: P7, W1, D2, L4 : PTS 5 Overall: P15, W2, D4, L9 : PTS 10Now, sorry for all you worthy haters, but I think those are pretty clear. Even stevie wonder can see his importance on the team despite many posters opinion's on here! If you can't understand - Worthy on the pitch: Lost 2 out of 20 Worthy not on the pitch: Lost 9 out of 15.
Worthy starts - when on pitch: 22 points from 14 - would put us 9th Worthy does not start - wjen not on pitch: 5 points from 8 - relegation form, puts us 23rd Which do you prefer? Its not that difficult to see is it!! Rant over That should knock a few blinkers off, but I doubt it will. Excellent post as usual
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 21:53:34 GMT 1
Post by thrice on Nov 29, 2008 21:53:34 GMT 1
A buch of stats will not convince me that he is a player. Care to pull up the same stats for the rest of our midfield please? I bet they could make Malv look like a world beater. I will indeed, just give me a few days! Granted, thanks. No cooking the books though, same rules for all please .
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 21:53:51 GMT 1
Post by shawsie on Nov 29, 2008 21:53:51 GMT 1
Now there's a surprise papa worthy!!!
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 23:03:03 GMT 1
Post by kleverboy on Nov 29, 2008 23:03:03 GMT 1
Now there's a surprise papa worthy!!! Unlike your own reply, of course... Meeooow!!!
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Worthy
Nov 29, 2008 23:21:03 GMT 1
Post by shawsie on Nov 29, 2008 23:21:03 GMT 1
Thanks klever dick!!!
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