C.H
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Post by C.H on Mar 20, 2009 20:36:46 GMT 1
me why people want holdsworth out in the summer get a grip please a few bad games and people are on his back he won all awards last year
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 20:46:58 GMT 1
He has been a core part of the team that has this failing mentality grained into them. I think it would be best for both club and player
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 20:49:43 GMT 1
Few bad games, he hasn't had a stand out good game all year. If he repeated the same form next year, then he'd basically be a poor player.
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jim100
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Post by jim100 on Mar 20, 2009 20:50:16 GMT 1
Indeed he did win all awards last year, but unfortunately not in a very good team.
I had high hopes for Holdsworth, but he has only managed to develop into a solid league 1 player.
IMO he is good for back-up but he shouldt be amongst the top earners. If he thinks he should be (dont know if this the case), then he needs to move on
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COWSHEDPHIL
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Post by COWSHEDPHIL on Mar 20, 2009 20:58:25 GMT 1
holdsworth- small, weak, bad passer, cant head, cant kick, cnat shoot, doesn;t get forward, cant corss, gets skinned , cant lead a team.....
why would anyone want him at right back??
he was awesome, for half a season, as a wing back, in league 2!!!!!!
thats as far as it goes.. thank for your effort andy, but for me, its towns reserves or league 2 next year.
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Post by shawsie on Mar 20, 2009 21:02:46 GMT 1
Not a fan then phil??!! Personally think he needs a new challenge and it may be time to move on - decent player but get the impression that he would be a bit part player next season when LC reorganises the squad and he deserves to be playing first team football.
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Post by Scissett Terrier! on Mar 20, 2009 21:18:20 GMT 1
Not a fan then phil??!! Personally think he needs a new challenge and it may be time to move on - decent player but get the impression that he would be a bit part player next season when LC reorganises the squad and he deserves to be playing first team football. ditto
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Post by mattyterrier2k8 on Mar 20, 2009 21:40:05 GMT 1
id say the same id like to think that clark has seen that hes too weak in this position his worst attribute this season has been his positioning which has been completly awful,like what has been said before hes been part of a failing team for years and hasnt got any better if were serious about trying to get into the championship we would have to say thanks for the service andy and all the best for the future
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 20, 2009 22:13:09 GMT 1
Play him in his best position. See hes far better than the other players we play there like Craney or god help us Flynn, even Collins . Then decide to keep him cos hes actually a really good player at this level, and as we saw ALL OF 10 WHOLE MONTHS AGO when he was lauded as our our best player by some way, in that midfield role hes one of the few players we have who could make the step up to the championship.
If roberts gets POTS in a few weeks, I wonder if people will be on here in 10 months saying how he can't kick it, cant do this, can't do that and we should hoof him out of the club, and other such utter crap?
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Post by shawsie on Mar 20, 2009 22:58:12 GMT 1
If we play him in midfield though, where does your lad get a game? He'd be behind collins, goodwin, t clarke, holdsworth, craney and flynn then!!!
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C.H
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Post by C.H on Mar 20, 2009 23:44:37 GMT 1
roberts holdsworth goodwin and pilks in midfield try that
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htafc
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Post by htafc on Mar 20, 2009 23:51:36 GMT 1
we need a right back and i don't see lee clark playing him in centre midfield
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 21, 2009 2:04:11 GMT 1
My lad's not here anymore haven't you noticed? I think its been glaringly obvious he isn't here lately! Holdsworths problem is hes the best right back at the club, the best attacking central midfielder and the best defensive midfielder, but unlike the other two, hes the ONLY right back, so has to play there. But if it was Collins, Craney,Flynn or Holdsworth in the attacking role ,then Holdsworth just beats Collins to it for me. If its Goodwin, Berrett, Flynn or Holdsworth in the defensive role, then again Holdsworth wins just ahead of Goodwin IMO. Players as versatile and talented as Holdsworth are few and far between so the idea we should chuck ours out the door for free is laughable IMO.
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'Uddersfield
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Post by 'Uddersfield on Mar 21, 2009 5:20:06 GMT 1
Learn a basic command of the English language.
He's been average to poor this season, sorry
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Post by rothwellterrier on Mar 21, 2009 9:45:25 GMT 1
If roberts gets POTS in a few weeks, I wonder if people will be on here in 10 months saying how he can't kick it, cant do this, can't do that and we should hoof him out of the club, and other such utter crap? Those posts have been creeping in already I honestly don't know what type of player some people expect to see here at a 3rd division football club. People must watch the greedy league on Sky and expect similar skills from our squad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2009 10:08:59 GMT 1
I like Andy Holdsworth. As a right back, I am in between the "he is sh*t" and the "he is brilliant" parties. I think he will do as a right back for now as we don't paticularly have another option.
I'd sign a legitimate right back (not a midfielder covering a weak area) and I would get rid of Craney then Flynn (in that order) which would free up a midfield space for Holdsworth. That way we trim our vast number of centre midfielders.
So, that would leave us with this group of midfielders and wingers:
Pilkington, Roberts, Ainsworth, Holdsworth, Collins, Goodwin. Berrett to go out on loan.
Out: Worthington, Craney, Flynn
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C.H
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Post by C.H on Mar 21, 2009 10:13:51 GMT 1
I like Andy Holdsworth. As a right back, I am in between the "he is sh*t" and the "he is brilliant" parties. I think he will do as a right back for now as we don't paticularly have another option. I'd sign a legitimate right back (not a midfielder covering a weak area) and I would get rid of Craney then Flynn (in that order) which would free up a midfield space for Holdsworth. That way we trim our vast number of centre midfielders. So, that would leave us with this group of midfielders and wingers: Pilkington, Roberts, Ainsworth, Holdsworth, Collins, Goodwin. Berrett to go out on loan. Out: Worthington, Craney, Flynn that midfield is excellant no signings needed then it frees up money for defenders or strikers
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2009 10:23:49 GMT 1
I like Andy Holdsworth. As a right back, I am in between the "he is sh*t" and the "he is brilliant" parties. I think he will do as a right back for now as we don't paticularly have another option. I'd sign a legitimate right back (not a midfielder covering a weak area) and I would get rid of Craney then Flynn (in that order) which would free up a midfield space for Holdsworth. That way we trim our vast number of centre midfielders. So, that would leave us with this group of midfielders and wingers: Pilkington, Roberts, Ainsworth, Holdsworth, Collins, Goodwin. Berrett to go out on loan. Out: Worthington, Craney, Flynn that midfield is excellant no signings needed then it frees up money for defenders or strikers Of course Tom Clarke could also move in there if we had an injury crisis. And also it depends on what is happening with Danny Cadamarteri whether we would have another winger.
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COWSHEDPHIL
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Post by COWSHEDPHIL on Mar 21, 2009 11:17:32 GMT 1
captain your talkingan incredible amountof rubbish. sory mate, everyones entitled to their opinion but
holdsworth better than collins in a atacking midfield role!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that comment is very very very very very very very very funny, deluded and wrong.
how mnay times have you ever sen holdsworth burst into the box and score a goal!!!
not to mention the fact that collins has briliant positioning skills and has a superb work rate.
bye bye andy holsdworth, roll on the championship!
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Post by specialun on Mar 21, 2009 14:01:00 GMT 1
captain your talkingan incredible amountof rubbish. sory mate, everyones entitled to their opinion but holdsworth better than collins in a atacking midfield role!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that comment is very very very very very very very very funny, deluded and wrong. how mnay times have you ever sen holdsworth burst into the box and score a goal!!! not to mention the fact that collins has briliant positioning skills and has a superb work rate. bye bye andy holsdworth, roll on the championship! Cowshedphil - Andy Holdsworth was our best player last season playing in a team which finsihed 10th in league 1. He played in a midfield with the likes of kamara, schofield, brandon, not the likes of roberts, pilkington etc. Collins is more of an attacking midfielder, but holdsworth gives much more in his all round game. Collins more likeky to score, holdsworth more likely to assist, collins and holdsworth both extremely fit, collins probably edges fitness, holdsworth far better defensively. Let's look at the stats (some with collins as a 2nd striker, some holdswortn as rwb): Collins is more likely to score. Holdsworth is more likely to make an assist. Both lead to goals. This season: Collins has scored 8 and made 3 goals - 11 direct contributions in 28 games Last season: Holdswoth made 13, and scored 3 - 16 direct contributions in 49 games
Collins 1 in 2.55 (0.39/game) , Holdsworth 1 in 3 (0.33/game)
Hardly as deluded a statement as you make out!!
The question is whether holdsworth offers 0.06 goals a game more defensively (0.39/game minus 0.33/game). i.e, do we benefit by 3 goals a season (0.06*46 = 2.76) defensively by having holdsworth in midfield as opposed to collins?
Without any shadow of a doubt imo, given he offers more in his all round game (positioning, reading of the game, defending etc) we would do.One of the reasons our away form is poor in a 442 is the balance isn't there - we are too open, hence conceding 3 v tranmere, 4 v leicester, 3 v crewe, 3 v carliske etc. Holdsworth is a decent right back, better right wing back - and imo we need a new right back (as I said last season), but Holdsworth is an excellent midfielder. In a 'worse' team on paper, holdsworth produced the goods week in, week out, he didn't go missing for spells. No doubt, you'll simply blame the defence The real problem isn't collins (who has had a good season) it all goes back to turnip. Does flynn offer more all round than holdsworth did last season? Definitely not Does craney justify £250k spent on him? Definitely not. Does he offer more all round than Holdsworth? Definiteky not. Two poor signings when wwe needed a right back and some additional width. I'm with rjs.....With worthy going, if we were able to lose craney or flynn (I doubt any club would help by taking both)- I'd get holdswrth, goodwin, collins berrett and the other (ie, craney or flynn) to fight it out. Typical town fans - score = wonderful/god/best thing since sliced bread Concede = Defence is garbage. Forget the bits in between! Now that's delusion!
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 21, 2009 14:33:40 GMT 1
holdsworth- small, weak, bad passer, cant head, cant kick, cnat shoot, doesn;t get forward, cant corss, gets skinned , cant lead a team..... why would anyone want him at right back?? he was awesome, for half a season, as a wing back, in league 2!!!!!! thats as far as it goes.. thank for your effort andy, but for me, its towns reserves or league 2 next year. And you say Im talking rubbish!! ;D Won't score as many as Collins but will create more for others and will be a more physical presence. I rate Collins a lot but Holdsworth just edges it for me.
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ellsky
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Post by ellsky on Mar 21, 2009 16:58:00 GMT 1
Play him in his best position. See hes far better than the other players we play there like Craney or god help us Flynn, even Collins . Then decide to keep him cos hes actually a really good player at this level, and as we saw ALL OF 10 WHOLE MONTHS AGO when he was lauded as our our best player by some way, in that midfield role hes one of the few players we have who could make the step up to the championship. If roberts gets POTS in a few weeks, I wonder if people will be on here in 10 months saying how he can't kick it, cant do this, can't do that and we should hoof him out of the club, and other such utter crap? IMO slapper i think you are talking a load of shite why the hell have you got a problem with Flynny when you ain't seen nothing of him apart from playing out of position as i said before i think you should apply for the managers job ha ha the team you keep picking keep getting well stuffed ,,,get a life and stop slagging off good players you foooool
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C.H
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Post by C.H on Mar 22, 2009 21:29:01 GMT 1
captain your talkingan incredible amountof rubbish. sory mate, everyones entitled to their opinion but holdsworth better than collins in a atacking midfield role!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that comment is very very very very very very very very funny, deluded and wrong. how mnay times have you ever sen holdsworth burst into the box and score a goal!!! not to mention the fact that collins has briliant positioning skills and has a superb work rate. bye bye andy holsdworth, roll on the championship! Cowshedphil - Andy Holdsworth was our best player last season playing in a team which finsihed 10th in league 1. He played in a midfield with the likes of kamara, schofield, brandon, not the likes of roberts, pilkington etc. Collins is more of an attacking midfielder, but holdsworth gives much more in his all round game. Collins more likeky to score, holdsworth more likely to assist, collins and holdsworth both extremely fit, collins probably edges fitness, holdsworth far better defensively. Let's look at the stats (some with collins as a 2nd striker, some holdswortn as rwb): Collins is more likely to score. Holdsworth is more likely to make an assist. Both lead to goals. This season: Collins has scored 8 and made 3 goals - 11 direct contributions in 28 games Last season: Holdswoth made 13, and scored 3 - 16 direct contributions in 49 games
Collins 1 in 2.55 (0.39/game) , Holdsworth 1 in 3 (0.33/game)
Hardly as deluded a statement as you make out!!
The question is whether holdsworth offers 0.06 goals a game more defensively (0.39/game minus 0.33/game). i.e, do we benefit by 3 goals a season (0.06*46 = 2.76) defensively by having holdsworth in midfield as opposed to collins?
Without any shadow of a doubt imo, given he offers more in his all round game (positioning, reading of the game, defending etc) we would do.One of the reasons our away form is poor in a 442 is the balance isn't there - we are too open, hence conceding 3 v tranmere, 4 v leicester, 3 v crewe, 3 v carliske etc. Holdsworth is a decent right back, better right wing back - and imo we need a new right back (as I said last season), but Holdsworth is an excellent midfielder. In a 'worse' team on paper, holdsworth produced the goods week in, week out, he didn't go missing for spells. No doubt, you'll simply blame the defence The real problem isn't collins (who has had a good season) it all goes back to turnip. Does flynn offer more all round than holdsworth did last season? Definitely not Does craney justify £250k spent on him? Definitely not. Does he offer more all round than Holdsworth? Definiteky not. Two poor signings when wwe needed a right back and some additional width. I'm with rjs.....With worthy going, if we were able to lose craney or flynn (I doubt any club would help by taking both)- I'd get holdswrth, goodwin, collins berrett and the other (ie, craney or flynn) to fight it out. Typical town fans - score = wonderful/god/best thing since sliced bread Concede = Defence is garbage. Forget the bits in between! Now that's delusion! very good post
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 23, 2009 1:31:26 GMT 1
Play him in his best position. See hes far better than the other players we play there like Craney or god help us Flynn, even Collins . Then decide to keep him cos hes actually a really good player at this level, and as we saw ALL OF 10 WHOLE MONTHS AGO when he was lauded as our our best player by some way, in that midfield role hes one of the few players we have who could make the step up to the championship. If roberts gets POTS in a few weeks, I wonder if people will be on here in 10 months saying how he can't kick it, cant do this, can't do that and we should hoof him out of the club, and other such utter crap? IMO slapper i think you are talking a load of shite why the hell have you got a problem with Flynny when you ain't seen nothing of him apart from playing out of position as i said before i think you should apply for the managers job ha ha the team you keep picking keep getting well stuffed ,,,get a life and stop slagging off good players you foooool Don't have a problem with Flynn other than i don't rate him that much, certainly don't put him in the same class as Holdsworth was last season in midfield. If that means I don't have a life, well obviously thats devastating news for me. idiot
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Yorkie
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Post by Yorkie on Mar 23, 2009 1:58:43 GMT 1
I'm not bothered if he stays or goes as I feel we will definately have a new 1st team right back next year. What I will say is if he was this so called best midfielder at the club then why didnt any of the 3 managers this season go out and get a right back even on loan so we could move him to midfield?? I've never been a fan of Holdsworth although last season he did play very well but I'd put him in a similar bracket to Worthy who I believe has won a POTS award during his time with us, i.e did a good job for us when needed but ultimately isn't gonna be good enough for where we want to go. The guy's town thru and thru but for his career I think it's time to move on.
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Post by AndySk on Mar 23, 2009 9:57:23 GMT 1
The way Tom Clarke played on Saturday, he made Holdsworth look like Bosingwa!!
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 23, 2009 10:26:20 GMT 1
'Ive never been a fan of Holdsworth although last season he did play very well..' Don't understand that. What you're saying is, 'I thought AH played very well in his true position last season ( POTS etc) but I'll judge him on his performances at right back instead ,where I don't think hes good enough' Why not play him in his best position before deciding he isn't good enough? Holdsworths treatment this season from both Turnip and Clark has been ludicrous! Firstly Turnip arrives, takes our best player, our POTS in central midfield and treats him with the same out of hand contempt as the other GM produced players, Clarke, Skarz, Collins, Berrett,Worthington. the only difference being Holdsworth isn't immediately dropped and replaced by some ( mainly inferior) Turnip signing, but is shunted off to right back whilst Turnip signs a couple of inferior players to take his position in the centre. Then ,without really doing anything to justify it, he is finally dropped altogether when Goodwin's performances in the middle become so poor he can't be picked there, so Turnip slots him in at right back, with disasterous results on the whole. Then turnip gets the boot, Goodwin gets back in the midfield and ups his game no end, so Holdsworth is recalled ,as a right wing back in a 352. Clark comes in,goes back to 442 and doesn't seem to mind AH at right back, or that we don't really have a RB at the club, so goes out and signs a 4th left back instead, meaning AH HAS to carry on at RB as we have no other decent option ( as Tom Clarke proved on saturday!) All the time Holdsworth hasn't played a game in his best position! The position he shone out in last season, won all the awards, alongside supposedly inferior players in a team that looks like it finished higher than this (improved?) one will! And now people aren't bothered if he goes ( Clark too possibly!!) because he isn't a brilliant right back!!??!! ! he should play every game from now on in the centre of midfield to show Clark what he can do. Put Collins in at RB, Clark already knows what he can do. If lee Clark lets last season's POTY leave on a free without even seeing him play in his best position, then hes a muppet of the first order!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2009 11:26:37 GMT 1
'Ive never been a fan of Holdsworth although last season he did play very well..' Don't understand that. What you're saying is, 'I thought AH played very well in his true position last season ( POTS etc) but I'll judge him on his performances at right back instead ,where I don't think hes good enough' Why not play him in his best position before deciding he isn't good enough? Holdsworths treatment this season from both Turnip and Clark has been ludicrous! Firstly Turnip arrives, takes our best player, our POTS in central midfield and treats him with the same out of hand contempt as the other GM produced players, Clarke, Skarz, Collins, Berrett,Worthington. the only difference being Holdsworth isn't immediately dropped and replaced by some ( mainly inferior) Turnip signing, but is shunted off to right back whilst Turnip signs a couple of inferior players to take his position in the centre. Then ,without really doing anything to justify it, he is finally dropped altogether when Goodwin's performances in the middle become so poor he can't be picked there, so Turnip slots him in at right back, with disasterous results on the whole. Then turnip gets the boot, Goodwin gets back in the midfield and ups his game no end, so Holdsworth is recalled ,as a right wing back in a 352. Clark comes in,goes back to 442 and doesn't seem to mind AH at right back, or that we don't really have a RB at the club, so goes out and signs a 4th left back instead, meaning AH HAS to carry on at RB as we have no other decent option ( as Tom Clarke proved on saturday!) All the time Holdsworth hasn't played a game in his best position! The position he shone out in last season, won all the awards, alongside supposedly inferior players in a team that looks like it finished higher than this (improved?) one will! And now people aren't bothered if he goes ( Clark too possibly!!) because he isn't a brilliant right back!!??!! ! he should play every game from now on in the centre of midfield to show Clark what he can do. Put Collins in at RB, Clark already knows what he can do. If lee Clark lets last season's POTY leave on a free without even seeing him play in his best position, then hes a muppet of the first order! I'm sorry, but you're now starting to completly exaggerate how good Holdsworth is in midfield. He is more than capable of playing there, and did very well there last season. He's also a more than capable right back, as he proved season after season under Jacko. His form has dipped this season, chances are it would have dipped whatever position he had played in. I think we should keep him, I think we will keep him, but lets not make out he's some midfield genius, who's been played totally out of position. He was treated badly by Stan who dropped him when he didn't deserve to be. But Lee Clark has played him every game he's been available. Picking him as captain for most, I don't think he can have too many complaints about his treatment. I don't think he's much better in midfield than any of our existing midfielders, he's certainly not as good as Collins there. I don't think he's a defensive midfielder, and he doesn't score the goals that Flynn, Craney or Collins do. He has other qualities of course, but you make it seem like he's a class above anybody else. Remember our best run of form last season came when Holdsworth moved to wing back. We've got more than enough central midfielders thanks to Stan. Its up to Holdsworth to spend the next 8 games showing Lee Clark how good a player he can be in the position he's needed in, the position where he's done well for most of his career, right back. Then when he gets a new contract, if we can shift some of these midfielders and get another right back in, he may get a chance to show what he can do in the center.
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iangreaves
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Post by iangreaves on Mar 23, 2009 12:00:20 GMT 1
First of all, Holdsworth is not a full back - even though he has played most of his first team career in that position. It's popular on here to demonise Ternent, but one thing for which you certainly cannot criticise Ternent is dropping Holdsworth. He persevered with him for the first eight games of the season, even though he was playing poorly. He finally dropped him after a particularly bad performance - against Tranmere I think it was - NOT BECAUSE HE WAS AN ACADEMY BOY.
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 23, 2009 13:19:39 GMT 1
He didn't even consider him in centre midfield BECAUSE HE WAS AN ACADEMY BOY though, and he didn't play badly to get dropped from right back either. Ok he wasn't outstanding, but he was consistantly ok/good which was a sight more than most of the rest of the team. Certainly hadn't done anything really worth getting dropped for, particularly for Goodwin who was very poor at RB.
Paul, Im not trying to over-exaggerate how good he is, but from what I saw last season he is comfortably better than Craney and Flynn as an attacking midfielder, and to be honest I'd prefer him to Goodwin or berrett as a defensive one too as he has a better engine and is generally a better footballer than goodwin and is stronger than berrett. Better than Collins is debatable Ill grant you. Collins certainly scores more and is 'fancyer' in what he can do, but Holdsworth is a more physical presence. A sort of middle option between Collins's vision and goals and Worthington's tenacity and workrate.
Anyway, my point is Clark should allow him the chance to impress in his best position, the one he was our best player in only a year ago, before judging him. And if the stories of his contract offer being withdrawn are true and he leaves on a free without being given that chance, then Clark is a fool.
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