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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 21, 2014 9:44:14 GMT 1
I feel for Dave Whelan he is caught up in a media witch hunt and kickitout should be ashamed for jumping on the bandwagon
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 21, 2014 9:54:34 GMT 1
I feel for Dave Whelan he is caught up in a media witch hunt and kickitout should be ashamed for jumping on the bandwagon He's an idiot. Makes a controversial choice of manager, follows it up with unreconstructed idiocy then issues a non-apology ("I'm sorry if I offended people", not I'm sorry that I DID offend people) He has every right to choose his own manager, but not having the gumption to understand the sensitivity and, worse, exacerbate it, has made him an easy target for the media and he deserves all the crap he is having to take.
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 21, 2014 9:56:40 GMT 1
Gotta feel sorry for Whelan here, he's gonna get hunted down for his comments that quite frankly are not racist in my opinion. I don't know what defines racism anymore, airing a view that is not complimentary about a race of people seems to be the parameter. Anything the professional offendees can get there teeth into these days and complain about seems to be it
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Post by kennyk2 on Nov 21, 2014 10:04:20 GMT 1
Gotta feel sorry for Whelan here, he's gonna get hunted down for his comments that quite frankly are not racist in my opinion. I don't know what defines racism anymore, airing a view that is not complimentary about a race of people seems to be the parameter. There's a lot of people out there getting very upset, very easily.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 21, 2014 10:21:16 GMT 1
I feel for Dave Whelan he is caught up in a media witch hunt and kickitout should be ashamed for jumping on the bandwagon He's an idiot. Makes a controversial choice of manager, follows it up with unreconstructed idiocy then issues a non-apology ("I'm sorry if I offended people", not I'm sorry that I DID offend people) He has every right to choose his own manager, but not having the gumption to understand the sensitivity and, worse, exacerbate it, has made him an easy target for the media and he deserves all the crap he is having to take. I take it you have never said chinky when referring to chinese takeaway or listened to or told jokes about Jews and money
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 21, 2014 10:22:26 GMT 1
He's an idiot. Makes a controversial choice of manager, follows it up with unreconstructed idiocy then issues a non-apology ("I'm sorry if I offended people", not I'm sorry that I DID offend people) He has every right to choose his own manager, but not having the gumption to understand the sensitivity and, worse, exacerbate it, has made him an easy target for the media and he deserves all the crap he is having to take. I take it you have never said chinky when referring to chinese takeaway or listened to or told jokes about Jews and money Not in conversation with a journalist after just appointing a man under investigation, no.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 21, 2014 10:36:23 GMT 1
I take it you have never said chinky when referring to chinese takeaway or listened to or told jokes about Jews and money Not in conversation with a journalist after just appointing a man under investigation, no. It's just a witch-hunt that will become tomorrow's fish & chip wrapping tomorrow can't come soon enough
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Post by kennyk2 on Nov 21, 2014 10:36:54 GMT 1
My favourite Python song wouldn't go down too well in Wigan at the moment then!
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Post by upthetown on Nov 21, 2014 10:37:54 GMT 1
He's an idiot. Makes a controversial choice of manager, follows it up with unreconstructed idiocy then issues a non-apology ("I'm sorry if I offended people", not I'm sorry that I DID offend people) He has every right to choose his own manager, but not having the gumption to understand the sensitivity and, worse, exacerbate it, has made him an easy target for the media and he deserves all the crap he is having to take. I take it you have never said chinky when referring to chinese takeaway or listened to or told jokes about Jews and money Always used to refer to chinese takeaway as "chinky" and honestly never knew there was a negative connotation. Family Guy, South Park etc have weekly references to Jews/money too. I reckon my grandad would pretty much say word-for-word what Whelan had, I wouldn't view him as racist or anti-Semitic either.
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Post by Captainslapper on Nov 21, 2014 10:42:56 GMT 1
I feel for Dave Whelan he is caught up in a media witch hunt and kickitout should be ashamed for jumping on the bandwagon Its best not to say ANYTHING at all regarding ANYTHING to do with nationality religion or race, even if its a pretty obvious thing you're saying. The caveat to that of course is that its ok to say pretty much anything about people who are white or Christian. Whelan just comes across as a bit of a bumbling gent of a certain age. From a time pre-thought police, who was trying to say the right thing but falling into the many traps that those desperate to be offended have laid out for him. The melodramatic outcry is only to be expected. As for Kick it out- these are people who make their living from football having a racist problem that needs addressing. The fact it doesn't isn't what will pay their mortgages and keep the free tickets, travel and VIP lifestyle coming, so its in their interests to grossly exaggerate anything remotely 'racist' as best they can. Bit cynical I know, but can't help be over groups like that.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 21, 2014 10:51:48 GMT 1
I take it you have never said chinky when referring to chinese takeaway or listened to or told jokes about Jews and money Always used to refer to chinese takeaway as "chinky" and honestly never knew there was a negative connotation. Family Guy, South Park etc have weekly references to Jews/money too. I reckon my grandad would pretty much say word-for-word what Whelan had, I wouldn't view him as racist or anti-Semitic either. The stereotyping of Jews and money is pretty much the main plank of anti-semitism, culminating (not starting with) in 1930s Germany, where they were demonised for starting WW1 deliberately for money and power. Whelan is badly advised, simple as that - I don't think he wants to be insensitive, but having knowingly put himself in a position where he knew he would be criticised, rightly or wrongly, to then compound it with views your grandad (and my Dad) thought was acceptable 30/40 years ago is just idiotic. He was on the radio just a few weeks ago affectionately talking about "coloured" lads. He's a bit clueless in this area.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 21, 2014 10:54:51 GMT 1
I feel for Dave Whelan he is caught up in a media witch hunt and kickitout should be ashamed for jumping on the bandwagon Its best not to say ANYTHING at all regarding ANYTHING to do with nationality religion or race, even if its a pretty obvious thing you're saying. The caveat to that of course is that its ok to say pretty much anything about people who are white or Christian. Whelan just comes across as a bit of a bumbling gent of a certain age. From a time pre-thought police, who was trying to say the right thing but falling into the many traps that those desperate to be offended have laid out for him. The melodramatic outcry is only to be expected. As for Kick it out- these are people who make their living from football having a racist problem that needs addressing. The fact it doesn't isn't what will pay their mortgages and keep the free tickets, travel and VIP lifestyle coming, so its in their interests to grossly exaggerate anything remotely 'racist' as best they can. Bit cynical I know, but can't help be over groups like that. I am now going watch some old Dave Allen on YouTube before it is banned
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 21, 2014 11:05:58 GMT 1
Always used to refer to chinese takeaway as "chinky" and honestly never knew there was a negative connotation. Family Guy, South Park etc have weekly references to Jews/money too. I reckon my grandad would pretty much say word-for-word what Whelan had, I wouldn't view him as racist or anti-Semitic either. The stereotyping of Jews and money is pretty much the main plank of anti-semitism, culminating (not starting with) in 1930s Germany, where they were demonised for starting WW1 deliberately for money and power. Whelan is badly advised, simple as that - I don't think he wants to be insensitive, but having knowingly put himself in a position where he knew he would be criticised, rightly or wrongly, to then compound it with views your grandad (and my Dad) thought was acceptable 30/40 years ago is just idiotic. He was on the radio just a few weeks ago affectionately talking about "coloured" lads. He's a bit clueless in this area. I remember when it was polite to say coloured person
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 21, 2014 11:09:36 GMT 1
I remember when it was polite to say coloured person I remember when it was polite to say negro.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 21, 2014 11:10:26 GMT 1
The stereotyping of Jews and money is pretty much the main plank of anti-semitism, culminating (not starting with) in 1930s Germany, where they were demonised for starting WW1 deliberately for money and power. Whelan is badly advised, simple as that - I don't think he wants to be insensitive, but having knowingly put himself in a position where he knew he would be criticised, rightly or wrongly, to then compound it with views your grandad (and my Dad) thought was acceptable 30/40 years ago is just idiotic. He was on the radio just a few weeks ago affectionately talking about "coloured" lads. He's a bit clueless in this area. I remember when it was polite to say coloured person I remember when it was acceptable to call people spastics and Mongols. Wouldn't do it now though
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Nov 21, 2014 11:11:52 GMT 1
Always used to refer to chinese takeaway as "chinky" and honestly never knew there was a negative connotation. Family Guy, South Park etc have weekly references to Jews/money too. I reckon my grandad would pretty much say word-for-word what Whelan had, I wouldn't view him as racist or anti-Semitic either. The stereotyping of Jews and money is pretty much the main plank of anti-semitism, culminating (not starting with) in 1930s Germany, where they were demonised for starting WW1 deliberately for money and power. Whelan is badly advised, simple as that - I don't think he wants to be insensitive, but having knowingly put himself in a position where he knew he would be criticised, rightly or wrongly, to then compound it with views your grandad (and my Dad) thought was acceptable 30/40 years ago is just idiotic. He was on the radio just a few weeks ago affectionately talking about "coloured" lads. He's a bit clueless in this area. Refreshingly clueless? He's always struck me as a decent bloke who makes his own mind up and doesn't really need to be "advised". If he's personally happy with MM's storey then fair enough. He'll find out over the next couple of years if he was right or wrong. I'd personally be more worried about his financial dealings rather than the racist/homophobic stuff.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 21, 2014 11:12:21 GMT 1
I remember when it was polite to say coloured person I remember when it was polite to say negro. and the dog in Dambusters went uncommented upon for a few decades.
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 21, 2014 11:13:46 GMT 1
'Half-caste' another one.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 21, 2014 11:17:25 GMT 1
The stereotyping of Jews and money is pretty much the main plank of anti-semitism, culminating (not starting with) in 1930s Germany, where they were demonised for starting WW1 deliberately for money and power. Whelan is badly advised, simple as that - I don't think he wants to be insensitive, but having knowingly put himself in a position where he knew he would be criticised, rightly or wrongly, to then compound it with views your grandad (and my Dad) thought was acceptable 30/40 years ago is just idiotic. He was on the radio just a few weeks ago affectionately talking about "coloured" lads. He's a bit clueless in this area. Refreshingly clueless? He's always struck me as a decent bloke who makes his own mind up and doesn't really need to be "advised". If he's personally happy with MM's storey then fair enough. He'll find out over the next couple of years if he was right or wrong. I'd personally be more worried about his financial dealings rather than the racist/homophobic stuff. I very much doubt DW is consciously racist or anti-Semitic, and found Malky's new found sensitivity being learned in a thought camp even more cringeworthy than anything DW said, but Whelan is in a high profile position and it's incredible to me that he made a pretty sensitive decision worse. It is looking like ending in tears already.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 11:19:21 GMT 1
The stereotyping of Jews and money is pretty much the main plank of anti-semitism, culminating (not starting with) in 1930s Germany, where they were demonised for starting WW1 deliberately for money and power. Whelan is badly advised, simple as that - I don't think he wants to be insensitive, but having knowingly put himself in a position where he knew he would be criticised, rightly or wrongly, to then compound it with views your grandad (and my Dad) thought was acceptable 30/40 years ago is just idiotic. He was on the radio just a few weeks ago affectionately talking about "coloured" lads. He's a bit clueless in this area. I remember when it was polite to say coloured person So do I, in fact to call someone black would have been deemed offensive.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 21, 2014 11:21:24 GMT 1
Tbh I agree with him with the chink bit we've all done it, but to come out and say it in the media! When PC has gone mad is cringworthy and stupid!
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Post by nicovaesen on Nov 21, 2014 11:35:48 GMT 1
It is better to remain quiet and let people think that you are stupid then to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Sadly in this day and age where people take offence at the slightest thing and deem it racist or homophobic or discrimination this can't be more true. I have a very physically disabled mother and a gay sister and yet these two are the biggest jokers and mickey takers in my family. They have always said it's not what you say it's how you say it. Certain things have had to change that's given. However, I do agree it has gone too far where most of us in society are afraid to say something that might offend.in nine out of ten situations (ultimate cliche) it's not the so called "offended" person that raises a complaint about someone it's a do gooder. I think a rational discussion and some reeducation to certain people is enough. A witch hunt to ruin peoples lives and label them for life is the wrong way to go UTT
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 21, 2014 11:37:18 GMT 1
I remember when it was polite to say negro. and the dog in Dambusters went uncommented upon for a few decades. Yeah forgot about that, they changed it to digger didn't they!
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 21, 2014 11:43:52 GMT 1
I feel for Dave Whelan he is caught up in a media witch hunt and kickitout should be ashamed for jumping on the bandwagon The caveat to that of course is that its ok to say pretty much anything about people who are white Ironic that a shadow cabinet minister has resigned this morning for doing exactly that. She issued a non-apology apology too.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Nov 21, 2014 11:58:35 GMT 1
Refreshingly clueless? He's always struck me as a decent bloke who makes his own mind up and doesn't really need to be "advised". If he's personally happy with MM's storey then fair enough. He'll find out over the next couple of years if he was right or wrong. I'd personally be more worried about his financial dealings rather than the racist/homophobic stuff. I very much doubt DW is consciously racist or anti-Semitic, and found Malky's new found sensitivity being learned in a thought camp even more cringeworthy than anything DW said, but Whelan is in a high profile position and it's incredible to me that he made a pretty sensitive decision worse. It is looking like ending in tears already. Its incredible to me that he made the decision to employ MM in the first place. However, its not difficult to defend his right to do that even amongst the pc claptrap surrounding the issue.
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Post by kennyk2 on Nov 21, 2014 12:06:13 GMT 1
I remember when it was polite to say coloured person I remember when it was acceptable to call people spastics and Mongols. Wouldn't do it now though Unless they're Mongolian!
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 21, 2014 12:06:39 GMT 1
I very much doubt DW is consciously racist or anti-Semitic, and found Malky's new found sensitivity being learned in a thought camp even more cringeworthy than anything DW said, but Whelan is in a high profile position and it's incredible to me that he made a pretty sensitive decision worse. It is looking like ending in tears already. Its incredible to me that he made the decision to employ MM in the first place. However, its not difficult to defend his right to do that even amongst the pc claptrap surrounding the issue. Whatever the rights and wrongs of what MM did, you'd have thought he was pretty toxic right now. Still, troubles being heaped upon a divisional rival are welcome, particularly self inflicted ones.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2014 12:09:08 GMT 1
Blimey, you can't even casually use racial epithets and crudely stereotype a whole people nowadays without the blooming PC Brigade getting on your back. Say it with me folks, "it's political correctness gone mad."
It's almost as if people have begun to recognise that ethnic slurs have a complicated and contentious history, one which is often deeply painful and offensive for the people who are on the receiving end, and a bit of a laugh for the people who use them. I, for one, think that's a disgrace. Why? Because it hurts my feelings and means that I have to evolve as a person. Awful stuff.
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Post by 3Pipe on Nov 21, 2014 12:18:15 GMT 1
Stewart Lee has a lot to answer for.
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Post by upthetown on Nov 21, 2014 12:30:50 GMT 1
As above, what he said was misguided. But if you look at the actual quotes then I genuinely don't think he intended it in a racist or anti-Semitic way. Clearly he'd have been better served keeping his gob shut, and his "apology" is a bit cringeworthy.
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