JerryG
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Post by JerryG on Nov 26, 2014 9:39:05 GMT 1
Just to add to a well worn discussion! I can't actually think of any other Stadium/Ground in the country where the home fans aren't given 'first shout' of a home end behind a goal, especially when nothing physical actually prevents it. If the Stadium Safety Committee and West Yorkshire Police feel they are unable to control away fans entering and exiting the ground, then make every away match all ticket and limit their numbers. At Elland Road they give away fans the worst view in the entire stadium and change the highest prices, so it seems you can do what you like really. Obviously, there isn't a bad seat in the house at our Stadium but we could charge away fans more for the pleasure of being policed, corralled and messed about. On a more sensible note: I'm sure all the scenarios have been rehearsed many, many times before but why not give away fans the North end of the Kilner and make the Rope Walk the designated 'Away fans pub?' There's plenty of parking around there for most of the away followings we get anyway. It would probably mean a little structural work to the interior of stand but surely the revenue from just one televised match would finance it! Exiting the FM Upper and Lower at the Kilner side could have the fencing altered so those two areas exit at different points. Bottom line is it depends how driven/committed the various committees, groups of fans and WYP are in embracing the need for an 'Home End' I for one won't be holding my breath.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 9:45:58 GMT 1
When that was initially posted there were many questions asked as a result of it which went unanswered. Posting the same article 'for about the thousandth time' doesn't mean that these unanswered questions are invalid. For example, the questions in the initial post in this thread are unanswered... Why are Bradford and Leeds able to accommodate away fans in areas which at our ground are deemed unsafe? - Why are there numerous grounds in the Football League without the away coaches at the back of the stand? - Why can't away fans be kept in the ground for a period after the match to minimise 'interaction and crossover with home fans'? Why do we have to segregate concourse and toilet facilities? Fulham didn't. Why did Sunderland being given extra tickets not work?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 9:58:12 GMT 1
Just to add to a well worn discussion! I can't actually think of any other Stadium/Ground in the country where the home fans aren't given 'first shout' of a home end behind a goal, especially when nothing physical actually prevents it. If the Stadium Safety Committee and West Yorkshire Police feel they are unable to control away fans entering and exiting the ground, then make every away match all ticket and limit their numbers. At Elland Road they give away fans the worst view in the entire stadium and change the highest prices, so it seems you can do what you like really. Obviously, there isn't a bad seat in the house at our Stadium but we could charge away fans more for the pleasure of being policed, corralled and messed about. On a more sensible note: I'm sure all the scenarios have been rehearsed many, many times before but why not give away fans the North end of the Kilner and make the Rope Walk the designated 'Away fans pub?' There's plenty of parking around there for most of the away followings we get anyway. It would probably mean a little structural work to the interior of stand but surely the revenue from just one televised match would finance it! Exiting the FM Upper and Lower at the Kilner side could have the fencing altered so those two areas exit at different points. Bottom line is it depends how driven/committed the various committees, groups of fans and WYP are in embracing the need for an 'Home End' I for one won't be holding my breath. So not only would you give away my seat in the Kilner but my place in the car park and the pub as well? Brilliant, why didn't I suggest that.
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Post by scoffsablue on Nov 26, 2014 10:17:55 GMT 1
Its about stubborness, not losing face, having to back down and say...erm, we might have been wrong/hasty/stupid here. If we got the South stand within one match everything would fall into place and everyone would wonder what the fuss had been about.Park away coaches at Canalside, the nearest motorway is Cooper bridge anyway. Only half a dozen coppers and stewards would be needed to usher them along Leeds Road and then an easy getaway. Its insanity comparable to the Emperors New Clothes. Police justifying bonuses, weekend work and standing around chatting. There is NO safety issue except the current madness where the fans are now forced to mingle in the car park. A four-year old with a squint could work it out. Agreed....But why not just have the away coaches parked at the back of the SS and put the away following at the South end of the Kilner.....The entry and exit strategy would be exactly the same and there are sectioned locking doors under the Kilner throughout with there own toilet and catering facilities.....so if we had say Ipswich coming on a Tuesday night you may need 1 section of the Kilner to hold a few hundred...Whereas if it were Sheff Weds then you would use say 5 sections up to the halfway line housing 3000....Parking at the Canalside may be nearer to Cooper Bridge but i don't think WYP would fancy the 10 minute walk back with the away fans.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 10:28:26 GMT 1
Just to add to a well worn discussion! I can't actually think of any other Stadium/Ground in the country where the home fans aren't given 'first shout' of a home end behind a goal, especially when nothing physical actually prevents it. If the Stadium Safety Committee and West Yorkshire Police feel they are unable to control away fans entering and exiting the ground, then make every away match all ticket and limit their numbers. At Elland Road they give away fans the worst view in the entire stadium and change the highest prices, so it seems you can do what you like really. Obviously, there isn't a bad seat in the house at our Stadium but we could charge away fans more for the pleasure of being policed, corralled and messed about. On a more sensible note: I'm sure all the scenarios have been rehearsed many, many times before but why not give away fans the North end of the Kilner and make the Rope Walk the designated 'Away fans pub?' There's plenty of parking around there for most of the away followings we get anyway. It would probably mean a little structural work to the interior of stand but surely the revenue from just one televised match would finance it! Exiting the FM Upper and Lower at the Kilner side could have the fencing altered so those two areas exit at different points. Bottom line is it depends how driven/committed the various committees, groups of fans and WYP are in embracing the need for an 'Home End' I for one won't be holding my breath. So not only would you give away my seat in the Kilner but my place in the car park and the pub as well? Brilliant, why didn't I suggest that. No way are you giving me and mine that way either !!.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 10:56:19 GMT 1
Park away coaches at the one place where home fans are encouraged to go? Aye sensible idea that. Away fans came that way at the Old Leeds Road despite their end being furthest away. Most away fans bring 5 coaches...stick em anywhere, Old Leeds Raod. outside the cinema, get them to drop the fans at the North stand entrance and then drive the coaches empty and park at Mirfield train station for all i care. Its madness. Canalside, do fans really go prior to matches? I dont know anyone. It's no exaggeration to say canalside is packed every home game prior to kick off, so yes fans do go in there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 11:05:11 GMT 1
So not only would you give away my seat in the Kilner but my place in the car park and the pub as well? Brilliant, why didn't I suggest that. No way are you giving me and mine that way either !!. Well, if we follow Scoffa's suggestion, sometimes you can have your seat, and other times you can't. We'll let you know on the day...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 11:08:12 GMT 1
When that was initially posted there were many questions asked as a result of it which went unanswered. Posting the same article 'for about the thousandth time' doesn't mean that these unanswered questions are invalid. For example, the questions in the initial post in this thread are unanswered... Why are Bradford and Leeds able to accommodate away fans in areas which at our ground are deemed unsafe? - Why are there numerous grounds in the Football League without the away coaches at the back of the stand? - Why can't away fans be kept in the ground for a period after the match to minimise 'interaction and crossover with home fans'? Why do we have to segregate concourse and toilet facilities? Fulham didn't. Why did Sunderland being given extra tickets not work?Because corporate hospitality is also in the same stand (as there also is in the North / FM stand). As a rule, provincial accountants and solictors don't like being spat at and threatened by Mackems. As for your other points, I bet nearly all apply to stadiums built before 1994 - that's the crux here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 11:15:32 GMT 1
I remember an away game at Boston a few years ago. West Yorkshire Police were going through the pubs down the high street, showing their presence. Unfortunately a load of Town fans had chosen a Juliet Bravo/WPC theme for the fancy dress for that match. I've never seen West Yorkshire Police leave a pub so fast when the 2 groups met in the last one down the high street!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 11:17:03 GMT 1
People are going to be seriously miffed with the change, as they're getting turfed out of "their" seats. Because of the boxes, the only real option is the Kilner to house the away fans. Doing it to satisfy a vocal minority who want to sit behind the goal will not be popular.
Personally I think long term STHs attachment to their seat is a bit naff, but then I haven't been sat with the same people for twenty years.
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Post by ledzepterrier on Nov 26, 2014 11:42:58 GMT 1
Away fans came that way at the Old Leeds Road despite their end being furthest away. Most away fans bring 5 coaches...stick em anywhere, Old Leeds Raod. outside the cinema, get them to drop the fans at the North stand entrance and then drive the coaches empty and park at Mirfield train station for all i care. Its madness. Canalside, do fans really go prior to matches? I dont know anyone. It's no exaggeration to say canalside is packed every home game prior to kick off, so yes fans do go in there.
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Post by ledzepterrier on Nov 26, 2014 11:45:28 GMT 1
It's no exaggeration to say canalside is packed every home game prior to kick off, so yes fans do go in there. Agree, I go in before every home game, bar always rammed, 6 or 7 bar staff providing Timmy Taylor's !
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ram
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Post by ram on Nov 26, 2014 11:55:29 GMT 1
I used to have a car park space in the car park behind the south stand.My seat was at the north end of the Riverside lower..I ran the gauntlet of away fans every game.Was I bothered?..was I hell..but then I,m 16 stone and built like a brick shithouse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 12:07:36 GMT 1
Just to add to a well worn discussion! I can't actually think of any other Stadium/Ground in the country where the home fans aren't given 'first shout' of a home end behind a goal, especially when nothing physical actually prevents it. If the Stadium Safety Committee and West Yorkshire Police feel they are unable to control away fans entering and exiting the ground, then make every away match all ticket and limit their numbers. At Elland Road they give away fans the worst view in the entire stadium and change the highest prices, so it seems you can do what you like really. Obviously, there isn't a bad seat in the house at our Stadium but we could charge away fans more for the pleasure of being policed, corralled and messed about. On a more sensible note: I'm sure all the scenarios have been rehearsed many, many times before but why not give away fans the North end of the Kilner and make the Rope Walk the designated 'Away fans pub?' There's plenty of parking around there for most of the away followings we get anyway. It would probably mean a little structural work to the interior of stand but surely the revenue from just one televised match would finance it! Exiting the FM Upper and Lower at the Kilner side could have the fencing altered so those two areas exit at different points. Bottom line is it depends how driven/committed the various committees, groups of fans and WYP are in embracing the need for an 'Home End' I for one won't be holding my breath. I think the answer is Money Jerry. Cost of policing and stewarding away fans in the south stand is significantly cheaper than in any other part of the ground.
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Nov 26, 2014 13:01:24 GMT 1
I don't think it makes sense to the Football Club. Look at it through their eyes.
In the unlikely event we reach the premier league the stadium might actually be full every week. However the Club can guarantee that something between 9-12k home fans will turn out, with the odd match throwing up a bigger gate. If we were housed in the South stand, I doubt our home crowd would increase.
The club therefore need to make sure that the ground is marketed well to the away fans, maximise the number that travel to watch their team and add that to the matchday revenue stream. Alot of Clubs seem to like coming here because of the away day experience. It's a fairly easy ground to get to (especially access to the south stand) you get a nice big stand with decent facilities and in most cases supply meets the demand with just shy of a 4,000 capacity.
If Town were to start designating away fans another part of the ground then we'd need to ensure they had access to a similar capacity, this would mean uprooting supporters, many of which will have a fit moan and moan, refuse to ever watch Town again. People complained about the changes to the FML this Summer. It could well be that the number of Town fans that choose to sit in the South stand is a similar number to those uprooted.
The Panasonic is a badly designed stand, they should have just built a carbon copy of the away end, but they would have lost out on the cooperate boxes (another revenue stream) and the gym/ swimming pool.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Nov 26, 2014 13:07:44 GMT 1
I still think we should go back to letting fans in the south stand when we play teams that won't bring many fans up! It worked last time!
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 26, 2014 13:13:17 GMT 1
Its about stubborness, not losing face, having to back down and say...erm, we might have been wrong/hasty/stupid here. If we got the South stand within one match everything would fall into place and everyone would wonder what the fuss had been about.Park away coaches at Canalside, the nearest motorway is Cooper bridge anyway. Only half a dozen coppers and stewards would be needed to usher them along Leeds Road and then an easy getaway. Its insanity comparable to the Emperors New Clothes. Police justifying bonuses, weekend work and standing around chatting. There is NO safety issue except the current madness where the fans are now forced to mingle in the car park. A four-year old with a squint could work it out. Agreed....But why not just have the away coaches parked at the back of the SS and put the away following at the South end of the Kilner.....The entry and exit strategy would be exactly the same and there are sectioned locking doors under the Kilner throughout with there own toilet and catering facilities.....so if we had say Ipswich coming on a Tuesday night you may need 1 section of the Kilner to hold a few hundred...Whereas if it were Sheff Weds then you would use say 5 sections up to the halfway line housing 3000....Parking at the Canalside may be nearer to Cooper Bridge but i don't think WYP would fancy the 10 minute walk back with the away fans. And fook the disabled town fans on the disabled platform in that part of the kilner suicide
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Post by gledholt terrier on Nov 26, 2014 13:26:00 GMT 1
Because corporate hospitality is also in the same stand (as there also is in the North / FM stand). As a rule, provincial accountants and solictors don't like being spat at and threatened by Mackems. As for your other points, I bet nearly all apply to stadiums built before 1994 - that's the crux here. I think you might be shocked at the make up of people in the corporate areas. On the theme, I once organised a box for my Leeds supporting colleagues and guests in box 3 - right behind the nutters in the lower tier. How I laughed!
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Post by otium (EPBS) on Nov 26, 2014 14:28:20 GMT 1
Away fans came that way at the Old Leeds Road despite their end being furthest away. Most away fans bring 5 coaches...stick em anywhere, Old Leeds Raod. outside the cinema, get them to drop the fans at the North stand entrance and then drive the coaches empty and park at Mirfield train station for all i care. Its madness. Canalside, do fans really go prior to matches? I dont know anyone. It's no exaggeration to say canalside is packed every home game prior to kick off, so yes fans do go in there. Thats good, i am pleased. Let the fans have a drink together. Cops cause the tension.
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Post by scoffsablue on Nov 26, 2014 15:35:45 GMT 1
Agreed....But why not just have the away coaches parked at the back of the SS and put the away following at the South end of the Kilner.....The entry and exit strategy would be exactly the same and there are sectioned locking doors under the Kilner throughout with there own toilet and catering facilities.....so if we had say Ipswich coming on a Tuesday night you may need 1 section of the Kilner to hold a few hundred...Whereas if it were Sheff Weds then you would use say 5 sections up to the halfway line housing 3000....Parking at the Canalside may be nearer to Cooper Bridge but i don't think WYP would fancy the 10 minute walk back with the away fans. And fook the disabled town fans on the disabled platform in that part of the kilner suicide I be very disappointed if that's what you'd do, because i know i certainly wouldn't....Disabled facilities would have to be taken in to consideration and accommodated for.....No need for the amateur dramatic suicide statement
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Post by colnevalleyblue on Nov 26, 2014 15:54:29 GMT 1
Disabled fans can be accommodated in other parts of the ground, Riverside and South stand offer facilities for wheelchair users. I have no idea how many use the Kilner Bank and if there would be room for them in other parts of the ground but it is definatley something that would also need to be considered and another potential stumbling block.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 26, 2014 16:23:08 GMT 1
And fook the disabled town fans on the disabled platform in that part of the kilner suicide I be very disappointed if that's what you'd do, because i know i certainly wouldn't....Disabled facilities would have to be taken in to consideration and accommodated for.....No need for the amateur dramatic suicide statement No that isn't what I would do and if that did happen I would stop going to town games Its time the NSL except that the lower north stand is a good place for the 200/300 and stop trying to increase numbers on false promises of moving to the south stand
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Post by Is It Eidur Gudjohnsen on Nov 26, 2014 16:28:35 GMT 1
This is one of those topics where you have to check the calendar to see if you have travelled back in time as we seem to have the same conversations again and again. There is a minority who are pasionate about getting the south stand and I understand why and the benefits that would bring but there are not 4,000 of those fans who would sit there week in week out. If there was then it may be worth KSDL considering but its not likely in the short to medium term unless something dramatic happens like promotion. The idea of a club or any business telling a large percentage of their season ticket holders that they would have to give up the seat many have had for almost 20 years is ridiculous. Its would be terrible customer relations and considering season tickets are the life blood of a club its too high a risk strategy as some may not take too kindly to being forcibly relocated and decide to stay away instead.
People should instead put their effort into making the NSL the best it can be and filling that week in week out. When thats happening they can lobby the club to spend some proper cash to improve facilities.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 16:40:25 GMT 1
I be very disappointed if that's what you'd do, because i know i certainly wouldn't....Disabled facilities would have to be taken in to consideration and accommodated for.....No need for the amateur dramatic suicide statement No that isn't what I would do and if that did happen I would stop going to town games Its time the NSL except that the lower north stand is a good place for the 200/300 and stop trying to increase numbers on false promises of moving to the south stand
The average attendance in the NSL is around 650 and I haven't seen anyone who organises the NSL demand the south stand or any other part of the ground based on these numbers. The north stand is fine for now, it's currently sustainable. The south stand isn't.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 16:56:14 GMT 1
Let's not romanticise the South Stand either, and try and demonstrate some balance.
The view from the South Stand is WORSE than the North (given its further away from the action and is less steep, so for any given height you're even further away)... The facilities are worse than the Kilner (being open air etc).
The atmosphere is same as any other random part of the ground would be...it seems loud because its away fans and that's what happens, and we remember when there's 3000 away fans in there backing their team.
The real likelihood of Town fans being in it is there would be 1500, rattling around in a lot of empty space, with folk in the centre and north end of the Kilner declaring it failed because they can't be heard.
Things are just how they are. A tunnel will be built from the away stand (South Stand) to where the golf car park now is, which will remove all the current potential crowd conflict (not that there ever is any) with away fans crossing/minghling to get to coaches, and at some point the north stand lower will be developed, as the current stand only has a limited lifespan.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Nov 26, 2014 16:59:41 GMT 1
you would have to start giving the club and the police about 16/17 thousand plus reasons every two weeks to change their approach.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 26, 2014 17:06:44 GMT 1
No that isn't what I would do and if that did happen I would stop going to town games Its time the NSL except that the lower north stand is a good place for the 200/300 and stop trying to increase numbers on false promises of moving to the south stand
The average attendance in the NSL is around 650 and I haven't seen anyone who organises the NSL demand the south stand or any other part of the ground based on these numbers. The north stand is fine for now, it's currently sustainable. The south stand isn't. We will see how many go in there on Tuesday 24 feb against Reading and what the average over the season is but tbh I hope its full and you all have a good time my beef is with the I'm alright jack attitude the NSL are adopting
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Post by scoffsablue on Nov 26, 2014 17:10:25 GMT 1
I be very disappointed if that's what you'd do, because i know i certainly wouldn't....Disabled facilities would have to be taken in to consideration and accommodated for.....No need for the amateur dramatic suicide statement No that isn't what I would do and if that did happen I would stop going to town games Its time the NSL except that the lower north stand is a good place for the 200/300 and stop trying to increase numbers on false promises of moving to the south stand
I don't except or even accept your statement...This thread was created by Otium of which i have put my opinion on...that's my opinion...Scoffsablue....Not the opinion of the 700 that were in the North Stand on Saturday.....If you want their or anybody else's opinion send out a survey...Do you see what i did there...I just increased your numbers by over 400 without making any promises to anybody
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Nov 26, 2014 17:17:19 GMT 1
No that isn't what I would do and if that did happen I would stop going to town games Its time the NSL except that the lower north stand is a good place for the 200/300 and stop trying to increase numbers on false promises of moving to the south stand
I don't except or even accept your statement...This thread was created by Otium of which i have put my opinion on...that's my opinion...Scoffsablue....Not the opinion of the 700 that were in the North Stand on Saturday.....If you want their or anybody else's opinion send out a survey...Do you see what i did there...I just increased your numbers by over 400 without making any promises to anybody
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Post by scoffsablue on Nov 26, 2014 17:21:45 GMT 1
I don't except or even accept your statement...This thread was created by Otium of which i have put my opinion on...that's my opinion...Scoffsablue....Not the opinion of the 700 that were in the North Stand on Saturday.....If you want their or anybody else's opinion send out a survey...Do you see what i did there...I just increased your numbers by over 400 without making any promises to anybody That's more like it
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