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Post by specialun on Jan 25, 2015 18:42:19 GMT 1
Agree with Hudds on this
He can't take the credit for Coady, Butterfield / Clayton deal without criticism for the Peltier, Madjeski deals as well
Or the lack of addressing our two key areas for the start of the season- centre half and striker. The manager has the final say, ok but they need to work together - and IMO he's as much at fault if he can't deliver us the two key areas we needed to address. 9 months on, a change of manager and we still haven't addressed one of those areas!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 18:46:47 GMT 1
Have to laugh at those saying he wouldn't be missed or that they would want him to leave. Just because a lot of Town fans don't have a full understanding of his role at the club, doesn't make his position at the club any less essential.
As many have said, the gradually increasing quality in business of our incoming/outing transfers is mainly down to him, and surely the fact that Southampton are (reportedly) interested tells you everything you need to know about how good he is at his job, and how well respected he is.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 18:49:02 GMT 1
I do hope so, won't have to listen to his rhetoric anymore. Clueless comment
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 18:51:44 GMT 1
I repeat Huddersfield Town have NEVER been without a manager. Deals in the pipeline would have been already agreed by A manager and the board. linkOkay Middlesborough Gazzettte reported Butterfield and Clayton deal was not a swap deal www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/jacob-butterfield-adam-clayton-huddersfield-7575160So it's jumping the gun to sign Butterfiejd until the Clayton deal was done. If we did then I'm surprised. I suspect once Clayton did his medical, agreed terms etc we completed the Butterfield deal. If we did it with the Clayton deal up in the air then I'm amazed Boro would sign the deal and Hudds board would risk the exposure of two high paid players on the wage bill. Cod I have no idea what point you are making about a never being without a manager. My point is simply that Wilson has a big say in transfers (hence they continued without a manager, someone approached these players/ clubs etc) yet last spring all the blame seemed to be laid at Robjns only. I thought that was out of order at the time and if Wilson gets credit for the good signings under his watch he should also get his share of criticism on the bad uns as well. Wilson is given a shopping list by Robins, players are sourced and manager given the options. Manager says I want x players, wheels are set in motion, after extensive negotiations terms are agreed. Manager walks out the door, does Ross and the rest of the board decide to suspend all dealings till the next transfer window? Hello division one. MANAGER made decisions the board agreed to stick with.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 25, 2015 18:56:54 GMT 1
Okay Middlesborough Gazzettte reported Butterfield and Clayton deal was not a swap deal www.gazettelive.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/jacob-butterfield-adam-clayton-huddersfield-7575160So it's jumping the gun to sign Butterfiejd until the Clayton deal was done. If we did then I'm surprised. I suspect once Clayton did his medical, agreed terms etc we completed the Butterfield deal. If we did it with the Clayton deal up in the air then I'm amazed Boro would sign the deal and Hudds board would risk the exposure of two high paid players on the wage bill. Cod I have no idea what point you are making about a never being without a manager. My point is simply that Wilson has a big say in transfers (hence they continued without a manager, someone approached these players/ clubs etc) yet last spring all the blame seemed to be laid at Robjns only. I thought that was out of order at the time and if Wilson gets credit for the good signings under his watch he should also get his share of criticism on the bad uns as well. Wilson is given a shopping list by Robins, players are sourced and manager given the options. Manager says I want x players, wheels are set in motion, after extensive negotiations terms are agreed. Manager walks out the door, does Ross and the rest of the board decide to suspend all dealings till the next transfer window? Hello division one. MANAGER made decisions the board agreed to stick with. When does Robins/ the manager scout these players exactly - seen as though they are busy at 3pm on Saturday when these targets are all playing. On DVD? I think the scouts ( who Wilson runs) identifies the targets to be taken forward for consideration to the manager who then has an an input As for signing players without a manager. It's very odd logic and very much against the grain at most football clubs, however you justify it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 18:57:58 GMT 1
I do hope so, won't have to listen to his rhetoric anymore. Clueless comment Care to give your reasoning?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 19:03:00 GMT 1
Care to give your reasoning? You would be happy to see a key member of our backroom staff leave, purely because you don't like what he has said? As that is certainly what your comment indicates.
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Jan 25, 2015 19:12:59 GMT 1
Some Town fans are impossible to reason with. Clever dicks who are always looking to whinge and have no sense of reality
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 19:14:15 GMT 1
Wilson is given a shopping list by Robins, players are sourced and manager given the options. Manager says I want x players, wheels are set in motion, after extensive negotiations terms are agreed. Manager walks out the door, does Ross and the rest of the board decide to suspend all dealings till the next transfer window? Hello division one. MANAGER made decisions the board agreed to stick with. When does Robins/ the manager scout these players exactly - seen as though they are busy at 3pm on Saturday when these targets are all playing. On DVD? I think the scouts ( who Wilson runs) identifies the targets to be taken forward for consideration to the manager who then has an an input As for signing players without a manager. It's very odd logic and very much against the grain at most football clubs, however you justify it. You think Robins / the manager are only involved watching matches at 3 '0' clock on a Saturday? The number of matches Robins attended away from Town will be huge. Powell is on record this season as in attendance at several away matches not involving Town. When Powell and the rest of the candidates were in the interviewing period players were put to him as potential signings and he was asked his views.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 19:21:19 GMT 1
Care to give your reasoning? You would be happy to see a key member of our backroom staff leave, purely because you don't like what he has said? As that is certainly what your comment indicates. My opinion is based on the 'strategic plan' which was much lauded by Wilson and Clibbens in the early part of 2013 in which the five year plan was hailed as a masterstroke by many. I think the pathways statement was born from the same document. Anyway, about ten months later the rot truly took hold and Robins' position was being questioned. The five year plan was being brought up by many and I asked Wilson about it on Twitter. He responded that it never existed, and in particular, he claimed it was a "glib remark" made by Robins. It seemed to me that the board was starting to distance itself from Robins in preparation for an incoming shitstorm. I told him that I recall the plan being unveiled to the Patrons and sent him a screenshot of a news article from the club website. I asked if this plan never existed, what did he and Clibbens showcase on that March night ten months our so earlier? I asked a further question. Who am I to believe? Him, or the club website. I challenged him that the strategic plan existed when it was positive to do so, but when it went to shit under Robins and folk started to use it as a stick to beat the club with be denied it. I drew the conclusion that, as I said originally, he talks things up when it suits his agenda, when it doesn't, it's nothing to do with him. I'd show you the conversation I had with him on Twitter but he's since locked his account so please excuse me for being from dubious of his rhetoric. If you wish to see the report I speak of, it was published on 15/3/13.
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Post by Headless Chicken on Jan 25, 2015 19:23:00 GMT 1
Some Town fans are impossible to reason with. Clever dicks who are always looking to whinge and have no sense of reality In all fairness, they are pretty good at being selective in what they choose to remember. The Le Fondre thread being a prime example.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 19:28:45 GMT 1
You would be happy to see a key member of our backroom staff leave, purely because you don't like what he has said? As that is certainly what your comment indicates. My opinion is based on the 'strategic plan' which was much lauded by Wilson and Clibbens in the early part of 2013 in which the five year plan was hailed as a masterstroke by many. I think the pathways statement was born from the same document. Anyway, about ten months later the rot truly took hold and Robins' position was being questioned. The five year plan was being brought up by many and I asked Wilson about it on Twitter. He responded that it never existed, and in particular, he claimed it was a "glib remark" made by Robins. It seemed to me that the board was starting to distance itself from Robins in preparation for an incoming shitstorm. I told him that I recall the plan being unveiled to the Patrons and sent him a screenshot of a news article from the club website. I asked if this plan never existed, what did he and Clibbens showcase on that March night ten months our so earlier? I asked a further question. Who am I to believe? Him, or the club website. I challenged him that the strategic plan existed when it was positive to do so, but when it went to shit under Robins and folk started to use it as a stick to beat the club with be denied it. I drew the conclusion that, as I said originally, he talks things up when it suits his agenda, when it doesn't, it's nothing to do with him. I'd show you the conversation I had with him on Twitter but he's since locked his account so please excuse me for being from dubious of his rhetoric. If you wish to see the report I speak of, it was published on 15/3/13. Sorry but that's much ado about nothing, and somewhat of a moot point. The fact is that actions speak louder than words, and in this case that actions of what Wilson has brought to the club overshadow anything he may or may not have said a couple of years ago. if that is purely your reasoning for wanting him to leave then I would say that it is petty in the extreme.
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Post by showaddywaddywaddy on Jan 25, 2015 19:29:21 GMT 1
No Ross, no loss. Modern day over-hyped position created by filtered down Sky money and round the clock news. Life would go on with the minimum fuss, we'd have a chief scout nobody would need to know about.
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Jan 25, 2015 19:45:44 GMT 1
You would be happy to see a key member of our backroom staff leave, purely because you don't like what he has said? As that is certainly what your comment indicates. My opinion is based on the 'strategic plan' which was much lauded by Wilson and Clibbens in the early part of 2013 in which the five year plan was hailed as a masterstroke by many. I think the pathways statement was born from the same document. Anyway, about ten months later the rot truly took hold and Robins' position was being questioned. The five year plan was being brought up by many and I asked Wilson about it on Twitter. He responded that it never existed, and in particular, he claimed it was a "glib remark" made by Robins. It seemed to me that the board was starting to distance itself from Robins in preparation for an incoming shitstorm. I told him that I recall the plan being unveiled to the Patrons and sent him a screenshot of a news article from the club website. I asked if this plan never existed, what did he and Clibbens showcase on that March night ten months our so earlier? I asked a further question. Who am I to believe? Him, or the club website. I challenged him that the strategic plan existed when it was positive to do so, but when it went to shit under Robins and folk started to use it as a stick to beat the club with be denied it. I drew the conclusion that, as I said originally, he talks things up when it suits his agenda, when it doesn't, it's nothing to do with him. I'd show you the conversation I had with him on Twitter but he's since locked his account so please excuse me for being from dubious of his rhetoric. If you wish to see the report I speak of, it was published on 15/3/13. Get a life!
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Post by kennyk2 on Jan 25, 2015 19:47:32 GMT 1
Some Town fans are impossible to reason with. Clever dicks who are always looking to whinge and have no sense of reality The "I'll se what I like and I like what I bloody well say" brigade
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Post by y2troy on Jan 25, 2015 19:59:12 GMT 1
Strange isnt it one minute Wilson is the unwanted man ...someone comes in for him then wow dont let him go this guy is the messiah ,wake up for christ sake give it a few defeats no signings in transfer window and the same old moans will be coming out.
This could be a blessing in disguise,you all wanted rid as DH was been badly advised many was saying not so long ago ...i personally think be better with CP sourcing and giving his own targets as he has good contacts around the leagues and abroad and we are starting to show the way he works, so use his knowledge DH and and let him build the club up.
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Post by showaddywaddywaddy on Jan 25, 2015 20:01:09 GMT 1
Koeman in Carr swoop.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 20:16:12 GMT 1
Strange isnt it one minute Wilson is the unwanted man ...someone comes in for him then wow dont let him go this guy is the messiah ,wake up for christ sake give it a few defeats no signings in transfer window and the same old moans will be coming out. This could be a blessing in disguise,you all wanted rid as DH was been badly advised many was saying not so long ago ...i personally think be better with CP sourcing and giving his own targets as he has good contacts around the leagues and abroad and we are starting to show the way he works, so use his knowledge DH and and let him build the club up. Good idea, say Dean mate I'm an old pal of Nigel, I want Chris Wood just nip down the road and get him there's a good chap. Easy
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Post by benmsmith4 on Jan 25, 2015 20:30:37 GMT 1
Don't have a clue what he does but all I know is quality of signings have been better since he has been here. Only thing id like to see with regards to scouting is a specialised foreign region or country. Don't know whether Scandinavia is somewhere we look frequently?
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 25, 2015 20:36:23 GMT 1
When does Robins/ the manager scout these players exactly - seen as though they are busy at 3pm on Saturday when these targets are all playing. On DVD? I think the scouts ( who Wilson runs) identifies the targets to be taken forward for consideration to the manager who then has an an input As for signing players without a manager. It's very odd logic and very much against the grain at most football clubs, however you justify it. You think Robins / the manager are only involved watching matches at 3 '0' clock on a Saturday? The number of matches Robins attended away from Town will be huge. Powell is on record this season as in attendance at several away matches not involving Town. When Powell and the rest of the candidates were in the interviewing period players were put to him as potential signings and he was asked his views. I don't doubt Managers look at targets but they will be targets short listed by scouts. Managers are busy with there own team on the majority of match days, training mid week and maybe can take in a couple of extra games a week. As often as not scouting upcoming opponents rather than players The clubs scouts do the scouting, and Wilson runs the scouts and whittles down likely players. I would imagine the way it works is that the manager would then say we need a striker and the scouting team present options of players they have spotted who could be available and do a job There may be occasions were managers want in a player they've worked with previously (eg Murphy and Robins) but by and large the scouts are running the scouting.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 20:46:08 GMT 1
You think Robins / the manager are only involved watching matches at 3 '0' clock on a Saturday? The number of matches Robins attended away from Town will be huge. Powell is on record this season as in attendance at several away matches not involving Town. When Powell and the rest of the candidates were in the interviewing period players were put to him as potential signings and he was asked his views. I don't doubt Managers look at targets but they will be targets short listed by scouts. Managers are busy with there own team on the majority of match days, training mid week and maybe can take in a couple of extra games a week. As often as not scouting upcoming opponents rather than players The clubs scouts do the scouting, and Wilson runs the scouts and whittles down likely players. I would imagine the way it works is that the manager would then say we need a striker and the scouting team present options of players they have spotted who could be available and do a job There may be occasions were managers want in a player they've worked with previously (eg Murphy and Robins) but by and large the scouts are running the scouting. I didn't say Powell scouted players. I know how scouting works, all I am suggesting is when the opportunity occurs then Powell may well run the rule over said targets suggested by his scouting team. What I don't believe happens is the scout or scout leader (Ross in this case) makes the decision to sign anybody without a managers say so.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 25, 2015 20:53:27 GMT 1
You would be happy to see a key member of our backroom staff leave, purely because you don't like what he has said? As that is certainly what your comment indicates. My opinion is based on the 'strategic plan' which was much lauded by Wilson and Clibbens in the early part of 2013 in which the five year plan was hailed as a masterstroke by many. I think the pathways statement was born from the same document. Anyway, about ten months later the rot truly took hold and Robins' position was being questioned. The five year plan was being brought up by many and I asked Wilson about it on Twitter. He responded that it never existed, and in particular, he claimed it was a "glib remark" made by Robins. It seemed to me that the board was starting to distance itself from Robins in preparation for an incoming shitstorm. I told him that I recall the plan being unveiled to the Patrons and sent him a screenshot of a news article from the club website. I asked if this plan never existed, what did he and Clibbens showcase on that March night ten months our so earlier? I asked a further question. Who am I to believe? Him, or the club website. I challenged him that the strategic plan existed when it was positive to do so, but when it went to shit under Robins and folk started to use it as a stick to beat the club with be denied it. I drew the conclusion that, as I said originally, he talks things up when it suits his agenda, when it doesn't, it's nothing to do with him. I'd show you the conversation I had with him on Twitter but he's since locked his account so please excuse me for being from dubious of his rhetoric. If you wish to see the report I speak of, it was published on 15/3/13. Fair play for the reasoning I also felt Robins was a left a bit isolated in the spring re transfers and carried the can when others also would have had a say in the transfers as well I have no axe to grind with Wilson and he seems to have done a decent job (hence the Southampton interest) but I don't think he should get the praise for the good transfers while the poorer deals are overlooked
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Post by SaudiTerrier on Jan 25, 2015 20:58:53 GMT 1
You think Robins / the manager are only involved watching matches at 3 '0' clock on a Saturday? The number of matches Robins attended away from Town will be huge. Powell is on record this season as in attendance at several away matches not involving Town. When Powell and the rest of the candidates were in the interviewing period players were put to him as potential signings and he was asked his views. I don't doubt Managers look at targets but they will be targets short listed by scouts. Managers are busy with there own team on the majority of match days, training mid week and maybe can take in a couple of extra games a week. As often as not scouting upcoming opponents rather than players The clubs scouts do the scouting, and Wilson runs the scouts and whittles down likely players. I would imagine the way it works is that the manager would then say we need a striker and the scouting team present options of players they have spotted who could be available and do a job There may be occasions were managers want in a player they've worked with previously (eg Murphy and Robins) but by and large the scouts are running the scouting. Why are you two acting like its one or the other? They're normal people working together just like any other employees of a company. It's not a case of the manager saying "I want these specific players, go get me them now" nor is it Wilson presenting a menu saying "Choose x number of players from this list".. it will be a constant dialogue between the manager, Wilson, and all the scouts - it's a team effort and constant sharing of ideas and seeing what they can put together. Players are human and that means nothing is certain, and a lot of random shit can happen. Didn't Ian Wright start his career after a scout happened to be walking by? Wasn't Lolley a normal University student no more than a couple of years ago? Sometimes players will go straight to the club and ask, or players might recommend their friends to the manager/club.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 25, 2015 21:02:11 GMT 1
I don't doubt Managers look at targets but they will be targets short listed by scouts. Managers are busy with there own team on the majority of match days, training mid week and maybe can take in a couple of extra games a week. As often as not scouting upcoming opponents rather than players The clubs scouts do the scouting, and Wilson runs the scouts and whittles down likely players. I would imagine the way it works is that the manager would then say we need a striker and the scouting team present options of players they have spotted who could be available and do a job There may be occasions were managers want in a player they've worked with previously (eg Murphy and Robins) but by and large the scouts are running the scouting. I didn't say Powell scouted players. I know how scouting works, all I am suggesting is when the opportunity occurs then Powell may well run the rule over said targets suggested by his scouting team. What I don't believe happens is the scout or scout leader (Ross in this case) makes the decision to sign anybody without a managers say so. I agree the manager has the last say when we have a manager. My point is "had" Butterfield, Robinson and Hudson all bombed you could not hold Powell accountable for those deals. Cod we are not a millions apart in opinion. Although I clearly believe Wilson has more influence (and therefore accountability both good and bad) than you.
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Post by HuddsTerrier on Jan 25, 2015 21:12:29 GMT 1
I don't doubt Managers look at targets but they will be targets short listed by scouts. Managers are busy with there own team on the majority of match days, training mid week and maybe can take in a couple of extra games a week. As often as not scouting upcoming opponents rather than players The clubs scouts do the scouting, and Wilson runs the scouts and whittles down likely players. I would imagine the way it works is that the manager would then say we need a striker and the scouting team present options of players they have spotted who could be available and do a job There may be occasions were managers want in a player they've worked with previously (eg Murphy and Robins) but by and large the scouts are running the scouting. Why are you two acting like its one or the other? They're normal people working together just like any other employees of a company. It's not a case of the manager saying "I want these specific players, go get me them now" nor is it Wilson presenting a menu saying "Choose x number of players from this list".. it will be a constant dialogue between the manager, Wilson, and all the scouts - it's a team effort and constant sharing of ideas and seeing what they can put together. Players are human and that means nothing is certain, and a lot of random shit can happen. Didn't Ian Wright start his career after a scout happened to be walking by? Wasn't Lolley a normal University student no more than a couple of years ago? Sometimes players will go straight to the club and ask, or players might recommend their friends to the manager/club. Again I don't dispute that. Hogg was picked up because of Wilsons Watford history and he got wind Hogg wanted to move back north My point is that transfers are not just the managers responsibility and others play a big role as well. However in the spring the manager got disproportionately too much grief regarding transfers IMO and equally it's unfair now to praise Wilson only for the good deals and ignoring the bad ones
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Post by jimmythebulldog on Jan 25, 2015 21:18:10 GMT 1
Sorry Sio but the magic word you've used there is 'think' - money talks, not Ross Wilson. This new breed of footy 'power executive' is a self fulfilling fantasy where his fellow 'executives' at other clubs all talk to each other and make deals and keep themselves in jobs. If Town have scouts - they'll find players - if those players are offered good money - they will come. All these shiny suits mincing about inventing jobs - not essential. think you still think its the 1970s jimmy dean hoyle has made his fortune by cost cutting...do you really think he'd pay wilson a wage if he didnt think it was worth paying? i think you're ignorant of what he does so instead just say its simply not required You're right - Huddersfield Town would never have scouted and bought Wells if we didn't have Wilson. He was after all top scorer at a team about 15 miles away. We'd never have found him. Thank god we have Wilson. Arfield left because we didn't have him too... We'd have kept a player who doesn't look out of place in the Premership..... You're talking nonsense and buying into the shiny suit brigade.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 21:20:06 GMT 1
If Southampton think that Ross Wilson is better at a task they need than their current incumbent, that's highly impressive given the success they've had in recent recruitment, both at first team and (albeit now we see the fruits of a few years ago) youth level, too. Ross Wilson is very good at his job and has many contacts in the game and scouting network . and no he doesnt scout himself.
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Post by thrice on Jan 25, 2015 21:26:38 GMT 1
The reality is that players are not simply presented to the gaffer for final approval by the scouting system.
Rather they are presented by 'the board'.
That is a subtle but powerful difference.
I still don't know if that is right or wrong but I'm not totally comfortable with it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 21:28:33 GMT 1
I didn't say Powell scouted players. I know how scouting works, all I am suggesting is when the opportunity occurs then Powell may well run the rule over said targets suggested by his scouting team. What I don't believe happens is the scout or scout leader (Ross in this case) makes the decision to sign anybody without a managers say so. I agree the manager has the last say when we have a manager. My point is "had" Butterfield, Robinson and Hudson all bombed you could not hold Powell accountable for those deals. Cod we are not a millions apart in opinion. Although I clearly believe Wilson has more influence (and therefore accountability both good and bad) than you. Arguably Hudson 'bombing' could have been laid at Powells door, he was one player that Powell was asked his opinion on at his interview, his positive response allegedly clinched the signing. In the same way that Scannell had his move cancelled. As has already been said, Butterfield was on his way here before Robins left, only Clayton's dithering delayed it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2015 21:29:28 GMT 1
No Ross, no loss. Modern day over-hyped position created by filtered down Sky money and round the clock news. Life would go on with the minimum fuss, we'd have a chief scout nobody would need to know about. we already have and wilson isa great asset to us.
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