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Post by jqhtfc on Sept 3, 2015 10:10:36 GMT 1
How about Smith from Fulham.? Could do worse
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Sept 3, 2015 10:13:03 GMT 1
How about Smith from Fulham.? He didn't play against us because he was crocked - fairly long term I think.
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Post by Porrohman on Sept 3, 2015 10:16:59 GMT 1
How about Smith from Fulham.? Could do worse How ? Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
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Post by niggled on Sept 3, 2015 10:17:22 GMT 1
Footballs changed , rightly or wrongly ( probably wrongly for me) just about the only manager who is allowed to manage is mourinho and he had to go off and have a hissy fit for five years in order to secure his terms and conditions ... I agree it's changed for the worse ted but DH has interfered with recruitment and in turn player slection more than he should have. He started off well granted and prob the free spending LC put him off but for me it should have been a learning curve not the green light for him to decide who we sign. It should be the manager who selects the players he wants to sign so that formations work, that wau allowing him to do his job. For the chairman to decide who we are signing and then saying to the manager make that player work is crazy. DH should sanction the move of any player coming to the club yes, To identify a player and sanction NO. DH is a massive reason as to the money he has spent he is also the reason we have had a number of managers, crowds are falling and we are in a relegation battle most seasons in the championship. I am not having a dig for the sake of it but for goodness sake Dean you are not a stupid man you wouldn't be a multi millionaire if you were. But look at whats happening. CP might not be the right man if he isn't fair do but just let him manage if he fails get shut but you need to invest in the club if you want to keep us in the championship. [/ Total guess work, you have no idea wether Powell wanted players or not, all clubs now have a structure of buying players, the manager will have input into it , to say that dean interferes is ridiculous , he will have to agree with what his advisors from the said structure say before he spunks cash at it ... Or not. A manager is there to manage the team within the business structure. So unless you are party to the inner circles , which I doubt. Please stop posting guesswork .
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hudmat
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 640
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Post by hudmat on Sept 3, 2015 10:19:36 GMT 1
How ? Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards We could have Ishmael Miller
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Post by jqhtfc on Sept 3, 2015 10:20:20 GMT 1
How ? Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards I'm not saying I want him but there's worse about than him he's better than Miller for a start.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Sept 3, 2015 10:34:52 GMT 1
Footballs changed , rightly or wrongly ( probably wrongly for me) just about the only manager who is allowed to manage is mourinho and he had to go off and have a hissy fit for five years in order to secure his terms and conditions ... I agree it's changed for the worse ted but DH has interfered with recruitment and in turn player slection more than he should have. He started off well granted and prob the free spending LC put him off but for me it should have been a learning curve not the green light for him to decide who we sign. It should be the manager who selects the players he wants to sign so that formations work, that wau allowing him to do his job. For the chairman to decide who we are signing and then saying to the manager make that player work is crazy. DH should sanction the move of any player coming to the club yes, To identify a player and sanction NO. DH is a massive reason as to the money he has spent he is also the reason we have had a number of managers, crowds are falling and we are in a relegation battle most seasons in the championship. I am not having a dig for the sake of it but for goodness sake Dean you are not a stupid man you wouldn't be a multi millionaire if you were. But look at whats happening. CP might not be the right man if he isn't fair do but just let him manage if he fails get shut but you need to invest in the club if you want to keep us in the championship. You haven't got a clue on how town recruit their platers have you
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 10:38:34 GMT 1
I agree it's changed for the worse ted but DH has interfered with recruitment and in turn player slection more than he should have. He started off well granted and prob the free spending LC put him off but for me it should have been a learning curve not the green light for him to decide who we sign. It should be the manager who selects the players he wants to sign so that formations work, that wau allowing him to do his job. For the chairman to decide who we are signing and then saying to the manager make that player work is crazy. DH should sanction the move of any player coming to the club yes, To identify a player and sanction NO. DH is a massive reason as to the money he has spent he is also the reason we have had a number of managers, crowds are falling and we are in a relegation battle most seasons in the championship. I am not having a dig for the sake of it but for goodness sake Dean you are not a stupid man you wouldn't be a multi millionaire if you were. But look at whats happening. CP might not be the right man if he isn't fair do but just let him manage if he fails get shut but you need to invest in the club if you want to keep us in the championship. You haven't got a clue on how town recruit their platers have you I wanna know, I could do with some platers.
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Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Sept 3, 2015 10:44:15 GMT 1
You haven't got a clue on how town recruit their platers have you I wanna know, I could do with some platers. y not t
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cheesyhtfc
Steve Kindon Terrier
[M0:0]
Posts: 1,644
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Post by cheesyhtfc on Sept 3, 2015 11:19:25 GMT 1
We have been guilty in the past (possibly because we have chopped and changed managers without giving them a real opportunity to 1) get the players in that they want and 2) get the players out that they don't want) of having a squad that doesn't really have a style of play.
When Powell came in, we had some players signed to play in Clark's system, some to play in Grayson's system, some to play in Robins' system - each of which were very different to one another. The result is that each successive manager has had to "make do and mend", which has necessarily involved playing players out of position. The natural result of this is that the football is scrappy and uninteresting, because players who are unsuited to the position/way that they are being asked to play are unlikely to be adventurous (would you take risks if you were asked to perform in an unfamiliar role?).
Powell has now had the opportunity to get players in that suit the formation/style of play that he wants. It seems very clear that he wants to play with two wingers, one striker, one attacking midfielder (supporting the striker) and two deeper players (one who sits and one who is a bit more box to box). He tried that last season but was limited by the players at his disposal (Bunn needs more time to develop as a winger, Butterfield, Hogg and Coady weren't really attacking midfielders, Lolley and Vaughan were often injured, Holmes not ready etc).
He has now brought in the players that he wants to have in the formation he wants to play (and has tried to play). Scannell and Carayol as wingers, Paterson as AM, two of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead as deeper CMs. He has versatility with Lolley (who can play RM or AM) and Bunn (who can play LM or ST), he has the third of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead who can come on, as well as Dempsey (who can now be eased into Championship football) and he has Cranie who is a more than adequate CB that can also fill in at fullback if need be. Even though Butterfield is a big loss, it may well be that losing him is a blessing in disguise as 1) the creativity may now come from three areas on the pitch (rather than 1/2) and 2) he doesn't really fit in the way Powell wants to play.
The only two positions that I think Powell will have wanted to improve that he hasn't yet are RB and ST - an RB who, like Davidson on the left, can get forward and put crosses in, and a ST who is capable of playing as one up top (i.e. holding the ball up, bringing the wingers and AM into play then getting in the box for either the cross or the ball through from the AM).
RB isn't too much of an issue (Smith does get up and support, even if it is a bit hit and miss at times), but ST certainly is. The only player who is capable of doing all three of the above is the Vaughan in his first and second seasons with us - 1) his body may not be up to the job any ore and 2) he may not be motivated to play like that for us. Miller can hold it up and bring others into play, but lacks the mobility to do that and then get in the box, Wells can get in the box but lacks the ability to hold it up and bring others into play.
Another aspect is that the ST in this role doesn't need to get more than 10/15 goals per season, because if he plays the role effectively then the wingers and AM should also be able to get 10/15 goals each per season.
I don't know much about Sordell at all, other than he was in the GB team. I also don't know how Ameobi is physically. He was seen as a very dependable player by Newcastle who would bring others into play and help to get the best of them. In his one season in the Championship (admittedly 5 years ago) he averaged one goal every two games. Plus he has higher level experience which may give him the bit of nouse that you need to play in that position.
If we can get the right ST in for the role he is going to be asked to play, then I am optimistic about our prospects this season. If we don't, then we should not be surprised if it is Miller, rather than Wells, who starts as ST for us, because Miller is more likely to bring the best out of Scannell, Paterson and Carayol. This may not be a bad thing, if the team as a whole becomes more productive as a result, but it does set us up for the "Afobe vs Rhodes argument mk2"....
The flip side is that Powell has no real excuse not to get us playing, as he is now the first manager since Clark who has had a real opportunity to properly stamp his authority on the team. As I say, though, I am quietly optimistic about this season and think that we have made some very shrewd signings. Time will tell...
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Sept 3, 2015 11:32:16 GMT 1
Spot on summary Cheesy - I think that's what he's trying to do as well. The ST problem remains to be solved though. I'd maybe even stick Bunn in that role until we can get someone in. They are not easy to find though because everyone wants one - not least because a lot of teams are playing variations on the same theme!
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Post by wtd on Sept 3, 2015 11:36:06 GMT 1
We have been guilty in the past (possibly because we have chopped and changed managers without giving them a real opportunity to 1) get the players in that they want and 2) get the players out that they don't want) of having a squad that doesn't really have a style of play. When Powell came in, we had some players signed to play in Clark's system, some to play in Grayson's system, some to play in Robins' system - each of which were very different to one another. The result is that each successive manager has had to "make do and mend", which has necessarily involved playing players out of position. The natural result of this is that the football is scrappy and uninteresting, because players who are unsuited to the position/way that they are being asked to play are unlikely to be adventurous (would you take risks if you were asked to perform in an unfamiliar role?). Powell has now had the opportunity to get players in that suit the formation/style of play that he wants. It seems very clear that he wants to play with two wingers, one striker, one attacking midfielder (supporting the striker) and two deeper players (one who sits and one who is a bit more box to box). He tried that last season but was limited by the players at his disposal (Bunn needs more time to develop as a winger, Butterfield, Hogg and Coady weren't really attacking midfielders, Lolley and Vaughan were often injured, Holmes not ready etc). He has now brought in the players that he wants to have in the formation he wants to play (and has tried to play). Scannell and Carayol as wingers, Paterson as AM, two of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead as deeper CMs. He has versatility with Lolley (who can play RM or AM) and Bunn (who can play LM or ST), he has the third of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead who can come on, as well as Dempsey (who can now be eased into Championship football) and he has Cranie who is a more than adequate CB that can also fill in at fullback if need be. Even though Butterfield is a big loss, it may well be that losing him is a blessing in disguise as 1) the creativity may now come from three areas on the pitch (rather than 1/2) and 2) he doesn't really fit in the way Powell wants to play. The only two positions that I think Powell will have wanted to improve that he hasn't yet are RB and ST - an RB who, like Davidson on the left, can get forward and put crosses in, and a ST who is capable of playing as one up top (i.e. holding the ball up, bringing the wingers and AM into play then getting in the box for either the cross or the ball through from the AM). RB isn't too much of an issue (Smith does get up and support, even if it is a bit hit and miss at times), but ST certainly is. The only player who is capable of doing all three of the above is the Vaughan in his first and second seasons with us - 1) his body may not be up to the job any ore and 2) he may not be motivated to play like that for us. Miller can hold it up and bring others into play, but lacks the mobility to do that and then get in the box, Wells can get in the box but lacks the ability to hold it up and bring others into play. Another aspect is that the ST in this role doesn't need to get more than 10/15 goals per season, because if he plays the role effectively then the wingers and AM should also be able to get 10/15 goals each per season. I don't know much about Sordell at all, other than he was in the GB team. I also don't know how Ameobi is physically. He was seen as a very dependable player by Newcastle who would bring others into play and help to get the best of them. In his one season in the Championship (admittedly 5 years ago) he averaged one goal every two games. Plus he has higher level experience which may give him the bit of nouse that you need to play in that position. If we can get the right ST in for the role he is going to be asked to play, then I am optimistic about our prospects this season. If we don't, then we should not be surprised if it is Miller, rather than Wells, who starts as ST for us, because Miller is more likely to bring the best out of Scannell, Paterson and Carayol. This may not be a bad thing, if the team as a whole becomes more productive as a result, but it does set us up for the "Afobe vs Rhodes argument mk2".... The flip side is that Powell has no real excuse not to get us playing, as he is now the first manager since Clark who has had a real opportunity to properly stamp his authority on the team. As I say, though, I am quietly optimistic about this season and think that we have made some very shrewd signings. Time will tell... Excellent post. It'll be wasted on a fair few in here, though.
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Post by ozterrier on Sept 3, 2015 11:42:13 GMT 1
We have been guilty in the past (possibly because we have chopped and changed managers without giving them a real opportunity to 1) get the players in that they want and 2) get the players out that they don't want) of having a squad that doesn't really have a style of play. When Powell came in, we had some players signed to play in Clark's system, some to play in Grayson's system, some to play in Robins' system - each of which were very different to one another. The result is that each successive manager has had to "make do and mend", which has necessarily involved playing players out of position. The natural result of this is that the football is scrappy and uninteresting, because players who are unsuited to the position/way that they are being asked to play are unlikely to be adventurous (would you take risks if you were asked to perform in an unfamiliar role?). Powell has now had the opportunity to get players in that suit the formation/style of play that he wants. It seems very clear that he wants to play with two wingers, one striker, one attacking midfielder (supporting the striker) and two deeper players (one who sits and one who is a bit more box to box). He tried that last season but was limited by the players at his disposal (Bunn needs more time to develop as a winger, Butterfield, Hogg and Coady weren't really attacking midfielders, Lolley and Vaughan were often injured, Holmes not ready etc). Arguably the biggest problem in all that is relying on the manager to dictate the formation/style - not selecting managers (as well as players) who suit the club's philosophy (which we have in a business sense - but seemingly not on the pitch).
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Post by niggled on Sept 3, 2015 11:53:45 GMT 1
We have been guilty in the past (possibly because we have chopped and changed managers without giving them a real opportunity to 1) get the players in that they want and 2) get the players out that they don't want) of having a squad that doesn't really have a style of play. When Powell came in, we had some players signed to play in Clark's system, some to play in Grayson's system, some to play in Robins' system - each of which were very different to one another. The result is that each successive manager has had to "make do and mend", which has necessarily involved playing players out of position. The natural result of this is that the football is scrappy and uninteresting, because players who are unsuited to the position/way that they are being asked to play are unlikely to be adventurous (would you take risks if you were asked to perform in an unfamiliar role?). Powell has now had the opportunity to get players in that suit the formation/style of play that he wants. It seems very clear that he wants to play with two wingers, one striker, one attacking midfielder (supporting the striker) and two deeper players (one who sits and one who is a bit more box to box). He tried that last season but was limited by the players at his disposal (Bunn needs more time to develop as a winger, Butterfield, Hogg and Coady weren't really attacking midfielders, Lolley and Vaughan were often injured, Holmes not ready etc). He has now brought in the players that he wants to have in the formation he wants to play (and has tried to play). Scannell and Carayol as wingers, Paterson as AM, two of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead as deeper CMs. He has versatility with Lolley (who can play RM or AM) and Bunn (who can play LM or ST), he has the third of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead who can come on, as well as Dempsey (who can now be eased into Championship football) and he has Cranie who is a more than adequate CB that can also fill in at fullback if need be. Even though Butterfield is a big loss, it may well be that losing him is a blessing in disguise as 1) the creativity may now come from three areas on the pitch (rather than 1/2) and 2) he doesn't really fit in the way Powell wants to play. The only two positions that I think Powell will have wanted to improve that he hasn't yet are RB and ST - an RB who, like Davidson on the left, can get forward and put crosses in, and a ST who is capable of playing as one up top (i.e. holding the ball up, bringing the wingers and AM into play then getting in the box for either the cross or the ball through from the AM). RB isn't too much of an issue (Smith does get up and support, even if it is a bit hit and miss at times), but ST certainly is. The only player who is capable of doing all three of the above is the Vaughan in his first and second seasons with us - 1) his body may not be up to the job any ore and 2) he may not be motivated to play like that for us. Miller can hold it up and bring others into play, but lacks the mobility to do that and then get in the box, Wells can get in the box but lacks the ability to hold it up and bring others into play. Another aspect is that the ST in this role doesn't need to get more than 10/15 goals per season, because if he plays the role effectively then the wingers and AM should also be able to get 10/15 goals each per season. I don't know much about Sordell at all, other than he was in the GB team. I also don't know how Ameobi is physically. He was seen as a very dependable player by Newcastle who would bring others into play and help to get the best of them. In his one season in the Championship (admittedly 5 years ago) he averaged one goal every two games. Plus he has higher level experience which may give him the bit of nouse that you need to play in that position. If we can get the right ST in for the role he is going to be asked to play, then I am optimistic about our prospects this season. If we don't, then we should not be surprised if it is Miller, rather than Wells, who starts as ST for us, because Miller is more likely to bring the best out of Scannell, Paterson and Carayol. This may not be a bad thing, if the team as a whole becomes more productive as a result, but it does set us up for the "Afobe vs Rhodes argument mk2".... The flip side is that Powell has no real excuse not to get us playing, as he is now the first manager since Clark who has had a real opportunity to properly stamp his authority on the team. As I say, though, I am quietly optimistic about this season and think that we have made some very shrewd signings. Time will tell... It,s no good coming on here with a balanced,well thought out post based on facts. Get out.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 11:54:10 GMT 1
We have been guilty in the past (possibly because we have chopped and changed managers without giving them a real opportunity to 1) get the players in that they want and 2) get the players out that they don't want) of having a squad that doesn't really have a style of play. When Powell came in, we had some players signed to play in Clark's system, some to play in Grayson's system, some to play in Robins' system - each of which were very different to one another. The result is that each successive manager has had to "make do and mend", which has necessarily involved playing players out of position. The natural result of this is that the football is scrappy and uninteresting, because players who are unsuited to the position/way that they are being asked to play are unlikely to be adventurous (would you take risks if you were asked to perform in an unfamiliar role?). Powell has now had the opportunity to get players in that suit the formation/style of play that he wants. It seems very clear that he wants to play with two wingers, one striker, one attacking midfielder (supporting the striker) and two deeper players (one who sits and one who is a bit more box to box). He tried that last season but was limited by the players at his disposal (Bunn needs more time to develop as a winger, Butterfield, Hogg and Coady weren't really attacking midfielders, Lolley and Vaughan were often injured, Holmes not ready etc). He has now brought in the players that he wants to have in the formation he wants to play (and has tried to play). Scannell and Carayol as wingers, Paterson as AM, two of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead as deeper CMs. He has versatility with Lolley (who can play RM or AM) and Bunn (who can play LM or ST), he has the third of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead who can come on, as well as Dempsey (who can now be eased into Championship football) and he has Cranie who is a more than adequate CB that can also fill in at fullback if need be. Even though Butterfield is a big loss, it may well be that losing him is a blessing in disguise as 1) the creativity may now come from three areas on the pitch (rather than 1/2) and 2) he doesn't really fit in the way Powell wants to play. The only two positions that I think Powell will have wanted to improve that he hasn't yet are RB and ST - an RB who, like Davidson on the left, can get forward and put crosses in, and a ST who is capable of playing as one up top (i.e. holding the ball up, bringing the wingers and AM into play then getting in the box for either the cross or the ball through from the AM). RB isn't too much of an issue (Smith does get up and support, even if it is a bit hit and miss at times), but ST certainly is. The only player who is capable of doing all three of the above is the Vaughan in his first and second seasons with us - 1) his body may not be up to the job any ore and 2) he may not be motivated to play like that for us. Miller can hold it up and bring others into play, but lacks the mobility to do that and then get in the box, Wells can get in the box but lacks the ability to hold it up and bring others into play. Another aspect is that the ST in this role doesn't need to get more than 10/15 goals per season, because if he plays the role effectively then the wingers and AM should also be able to get 10/15 goals each per season. I don't know much about Sordell at all, other than he was in the GB team. I also don't know how Ameobi is physically. He was seen as a very dependable player by Newcastle who would bring others into play and help to get the best of them. In his one season in the Championship (admittedly 5 years ago) he averaged one goal every two games. Plus he has higher level experience which may give him the bit of nouse that you need to play in that position. If we can get the right ST in for the role he is going to be asked to play, then I am optimistic about our prospects this season. If we don't, then we should not be surprised if it is Miller, rather than Wells, who starts as ST for us, because Miller is more likely to bring the best out of Scannell, Paterson and Carayol. This may not be a bad thing, if the team as a whole becomes more productive as a result, but it does set us up for the "Afobe vs Rhodes argument mk2".... The flip side is that Powell has no real excuse not to get us playing, as he is now the first manager since Clark who has had a real opportunity to properly stamp his authority on the team. As I say, though, I am quietly optimistic about this season and think that we have made some very shrewd signings. Time will tell... Well done a well thought out post you make somev good points and i may differ on some at least you have engaged your brain and thats something that some on here never do
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Post by niggled on Sept 3, 2015 11:54:30 GMT 1
We have been guilty in the past (possibly because we have chopped and changed managers without giving them a real opportunity to 1) get the players in that they want and 2) get the players out that they don't want) of having a squad that doesn't really have a style of play. When Powell came in, we had some players signed to play in Clark's system, some to play in Grayson's system, some to play in Robins' system - each of which were very different to one another. The result is that each successive manager has had to "make do and mend", which has necessarily involved playing players out of position. The natural result of this is that the football is scrappy and uninteresting, because players who are unsuited to the position/way that they are being asked to play are unlikely to be adventurous (would you take risks if you were asked to perform in an unfamiliar role?). Powell has now had the opportunity to get players in that suit the formation/style of play that he wants. It seems very clear that he wants to play with two wingers, one striker, one attacking midfielder (supporting the striker) and two deeper players (one who sits and one who is a bit more box to box). He tried that last season but was limited by the players at his disposal (Bunn needs more time to develop as a winger, Butterfield, Hogg and Coady weren't really attacking midfielders, Lolley and Vaughan were often injured, Holmes not ready etc). He has now brought in the players that he wants to have in the formation he wants to play (and has tried to play). Scannell and Carayol as wingers, Paterson as AM, two of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead as deeper CMs. He has versatility with Lolley (who can play RM or AM) and Bunn (who can play LM or ST), he has the third of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead who can come on, as well as Dempsey (who can now be eased into Championship football) and he has Cranie who is a more than adequate CB that can also fill in at fullback if need be. Even though Butterfield is a big loss, it may well be that losing him is a blessing in disguise as 1) the creativity may now come from three areas on the pitch (rather than 1/2) and 2) he doesn't really fit in the way Powell wants to play. The only two positions that I think Powell will have wanted to improve that he hasn't yet are RB and ST - an RB who, like Davidson on the left, can get forward and put crosses in, and a ST who is capable of playing as one up top (i.e. holding the ball up, bringing the wingers and AM into play then getting in the box for either the cross or the ball through from the AM). RB isn't too much of an issue (Smith does get up and support, even if it is a bit hit and miss at times), but ST certainly is. The only player who is capable of doing all three of the above is the Vaughan in his first and second seasons with us - 1) his body may not be up to the job any ore and 2) he may not be motivated to play like that for us. Miller can hold it up and bring others into play, but lacks the mobility to do that and then get in the box, Wells can get in the box but lacks the ability to hold it up and bring others into play. Another aspect is that the ST in this role doesn't need to get more than 10/15 goals per season, because if he plays the role effectively then the wingers and AM should also be able to get 10/15 goals each per season. I don't know much about Sordell at all, other than he was in the GB team. I also don't know how Ameobi is physically. He was seen as a very dependable player by Newcastle who would bring others into play and help to get the best of them. In his one season in the Championship (admittedly 5 years ago) he averaged one goal every two games. Plus he has higher level experience which may give him the bit of nouse that you need to play in that position. If we can get the right ST in for the role he is going to be asked to play, then I am optimistic about our prospects this season. If we don't, then we should not be surprised if it is Miller, rather than Wells, who starts as ST for us, because Miller is more likely to bring the best out of Scannell, Paterson and Carayol. This may not be a bad thing, if the team as a whole becomes more productive as a result, but it does set us up for the "Afobe vs Rhodes argument mk2".... The flip side is that Powell has no real excuse not to get us playing, as he is now the first manager since Clark who has had a real opportunity to properly stamp his authority on the team. As I say, though, I am quietly optimistic about this season and think that we have made some very shrewd signings. Time will tell... It,s no good coming on here with a balanced,well thought out post based on facts. Get out.
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Post by haveitback on Sept 3, 2015 11:58:43 GMT 1
I agree it's changed for the worse ted but DH has interfered with recruitment and in turn player slection more than he should have. He started off well granted and prob the free spending LC put him off but for me it should have been a learning curve not the green light for him to decide who we sign. It should be the manager who selects the players he wants to sign so that formations work, that wau allowing him to do his job. For the chairman to decide who we are signing and then saying to the manager make that player work is crazy. DH should sanction the move of any player coming to the club yes, To identify a player and sanction NO. DH is a massive reason as to the money he has spent he is also the reason we have had a number of managers, crowds are falling and we are in a relegation battle most seasons in the championship. I am not having a dig for the sake of it but for goodness sake Dean you are not a stupid man you wouldn't be a multi millionaire if you were. But look at whats happening. CP might not be the right man if he isn't fair do but just let him manage if he fails get shut but you need to invest in the club if you want to keep us in the championship. [/ Total guess work, you have no idea wether Powell wanted players or not, all clubs now have a structure of buying players, the manager will have input into it , to say that dean interferes is ridiculous , he will have to agree with what his advisors from the said structure say before he spunks cash at it ... Or not. A manager is there to manage the team within the business structure. So unless you are party to the inner circles , which I doubt. Please stop posting guesswork . It's hardly guess work with the two players I have mentioned is it niggled, unless of course you have the memory of a gld fish and can't remember that far back.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Sept 3, 2015 12:43:56 GMT 1
We have been guilty in the past (possibly because we have chopped and changed managers without giving them a real opportunity to 1) get the players in that they want and 2) get the players out that they don't want) of having a squad that doesn't really have a style of play. When Powell came in, we had some players signed to play in Clark's system, some to play in Grayson's system, some to play in Robins' system - each of which were very different to one another. The result is that each successive manager has had to "make do and mend", which has necessarily involved playing players out of position. The natural result of this is that the football is scrappy and uninteresting, because players who are unsuited to the position/way that they are being asked to play are unlikely to be adventurous (would you take risks if you were asked to perform in an unfamiliar role?). Powell has now had the opportunity to get players in that suit the formation/style of play that he wants. It seems very clear that he wants to play with two wingers, one striker, one attacking midfielder (supporting the striker) and two deeper players (one who sits and one who is a bit more box to box). He tried that last season but was limited by the players at his disposal (Bunn needs more time to develop as a winger, Butterfield, Hogg and Coady weren't really attacking midfielders, Lolley and Vaughan were often injured, Holmes not ready etc). He has now brought in the players that he wants to have in the formation he wants to play (and has tried to play). Scannell and Carayol as wingers, Paterson as AM, two of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead as deeper CMs. He has versatility with Lolley (who can play RM or AM) and Bunn (who can play LM or ST), he has the third of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead who can come on, as well as Dempsey (who can now be eased into Championship football) and he has Cranie who is a more than adequate CB that can also fill in at fullback if need be. Even though Butterfield is a big loss, it may well be that losing him is a blessing in disguise as 1) the creativity may now come from three areas on the pitch (rather than 1/2) and 2) he doesn't really fit in the way Powell wants to play. The only two positions that I think Powell will have wanted to improve that he hasn't yet are RB and ST - an RB who, like Davidson on the left, can get forward and put crosses in, and a ST who is capable of playing as one up top (i.e. holding the ball up, bringing the wingers and AM into play then getting in the box for either the cross or the ball through from the AM). RB isn't too much of an issue (Smith does get up and support, even if it is a bit hit and miss at times), but ST certainly is. The only player who is capable of doing all three of the above is the Vaughan in his first and second seasons with us - 1) his body may not be up to the job any ore and 2) he may not be motivated to play like that for us. Miller can hold it up and bring others into play, but lacks the mobility to do that and then get in the box, Wells can get in the box but lacks the ability to hold it up and bring others into play. Another aspect is that the ST in this role doesn't need to get more than 10/15 goals per season, because if he plays the role effectively then the wingers and AM should also be able to get 10/15 goals each per season. I don't know much about Sordell at all, other than he was in the GB team. I also don't know how Ameobi is physically. He was seen as a very dependable player by Newcastle who would bring others into play and help to get the best of them. In his one season in the Championship (admittedly 5 years ago) he averaged one goal every two games. Plus he has higher level experience which may give him the bit of nouse that you need to play in that position. If we can get the right ST in for the role he is going to be asked to play, then I am optimistic about our prospects this season. If we don't, then we should not be surprised if it is Miller, rather than Wells, who starts as ST for us, because Miller is more likely to bring the best out of Scannell, Paterson and Carayol. This may not be a bad thing, if the team as a whole becomes more productive as a result, but it does set us up for the "Afobe vs Rhodes argument mk2".... The flip side is that Powell has no real excuse not to get us playing, as he is now the first manager since Clark who has had a real opportunity to properly stamp his authority on the team. As I say, though, I am quietly optimistic about this season and think that we have made some very shrewd signings. Time will tell... I agree with a lot of what you're saying but the bit highlighted is the key. Powell needs to take the shackles off and allow us to attack teams from the off and try to win games instead of trying not to lose them.
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Post by SaudiTerrier on Sept 3, 2015 12:46:52 GMT 1
Yeah good point Cheesy.. but Butts wos de best midfielder I've seen m8 so Hoyle out
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Post by niggled on Sept 3, 2015 12:49:54 GMT 1
It's hardly guess work with the two players I have mentioned is it niggled, unless of course you have the memory of a gld fish and can't remember that far back. There is only here say regarding stead, nothing factual. Although I do believe it myself to be true.Our transfer policy is decided by a group in which the man with the money " probably " has the final say. The rest my friend is guess work,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 12:53:04 GMT 1
We have been guilty in the past (possibly because we have chopped and changed managers without giving them a real opportunity to 1) get the players in that they want and 2) get the players out that they don't want) of having a squad that doesn't really have a style of play. When Powell came in, we had some players signed to play in Clark's system, some to play in Grayson's system, some to play in Robins' system - each of which were very different to one another. The result is that each successive manager has had to "make do and mend", which has necessarily involved playing players out of position. The natural result of this is that the football is scrappy and uninteresting, because players who are unsuited to the position/way that they are being asked to play are unlikely to be adventurous (would you take risks if you were asked to perform in an unfamiliar role?). Powell has now had the opportunity to get players in that suit the formation/style of play that he wants. It seems very clear that he wants to play with two wingers, one striker, one attacking midfielder (supporting the striker) and two deeper players (one who sits and one who is a bit more box to box). He tried that last season but was limited by the players at his disposal (Bunn needs more time to develop as a winger, Butterfield, Hogg and Coady weren't really attacking midfielders, Lolley and Vaughan were often injured, Holmes not ready etc). He has now brought in the players that he wants to have in the formation he wants to play (and has tried to play). Scannell and Carayol as wingers, Paterson as AM, two of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead as deeper CMs. He has versatility with Lolley (who can play RM or AM) and Bunn (who can play LM or ST), he has the third of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead who can come on, as well as Dempsey (who can now be eased into Championship football) and he has Cranie who is a more than adequate CB that can also fill in at fullback if need be. Even though Butterfield is a big loss, it may well be that losing him is a blessing in disguise as 1) the creativity may now come from three areas on the pitch (rather than 1/2) and 2) he doesn't really fit in the way Powell wants to play. The only two positions that I think Powell will have wanted to improve that he hasn't yet are RB and ST - an RB who, like Davidson on the left, can get forward and put crosses in, and a ST who is capable of playing as one up top (i.e. holding the ball up, bringing the wingers and AM into play then getting in the box for either the cross or the ball through from the AM). RB isn't too much of an issue (Smith does get up and support, even if it is a bit hit and miss at times), but ST certainly is. The only player who is capable of doing all three of the above is the Vaughan in his first and second seasons with us - 1) his body may not be up to the job any ore and 2) he may not be motivated to play like that for us. Miller can hold it up and bring others into play, but lacks the mobility to do that and then get in the box, Wells can get in the box but lacks the ability to hold it up and bring others into play. Another aspect is that the ST in this role doesn't need to get more than 10/15 goals per season, because if he plays the role effectively then the wingers and AM should also be able to get 10/15 goals each per season. I don't know much about Sordell at all, other than he was in the GB team. I also don't know how Ameobi is physically. He was seen as a very dependable player by Newcastle who would bring others into play and help to get the best of them. In his one season in the Championship (admittedly 5 years ago) he averaged one goal every two games. Plus he has higher level experience which may give him the bit of nouse that you need to play in that position. If we can get the right ST in for the role he is going to be asked to play, then I am optimistic about our prospects this season. If we don't, then we should not be surprised if it is Miller, rather than Wells, who starts as ST for us, because Miller is more likely to bring the best out of Scannell, Paterson and Carayol. This may not be a bad thing, if the team as a whole becomes more productive as a result, but it does set us up for the "Afobe vs Rhodes argument mk2".... The flip side is that Powell has no real excuse not to get us playing, as he is now the first manager since Clark who has had a real opportunity to properly stamp his authority on the team. As I say, though, I am quietly optimistic about this season and think that we have made some very shrewd signings. Time will tell... Funnily enough I was thinking exactly this the day we sold Butterfield and signed Paterson. The only way I can see that system working is if we play Barcelona style fluid football where Wells just has to be in the box and the rest of the team get it to him. That won't happen though, so for it to work we need Vaughan 100% fit for the full season. Again, that is unlikely to happen. The annoying thing is that the one player who was available and would be perfect to play the ST role in that system went to our neighbours down the M62. I was gutted when Leeds got Chris Wood and I'm even more gutted now because he'd be absolutely perfect for us. Possible alternatives out there seem to be very limited. Ameobi certainly isn't the one to fill the void, but at this stage we have to trust Powell, Webber, Dean and Clibbens to get a deal done for a Chris Wood type player.
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Sept 3, 2015 12:54:48 GMT 1
We have been guilty in the past (possibly because we have chopped and changed managers without giving them a real opportunity to 1) get the players in that they want and 2) get the players out that they don't want) of having a squad that doesn't really have a style of play. When Powell came in, we had some players signed to play in Clark's system, some to play in Grayson's system, some to play in Robins' system - each of which were very different to one another. The result is that each successive manager has had to "make do and mend", which has necessarily involved playing players out of position. The natural result of this is that the football is scrappy and uninteresting, because players who are unsuited to the position/way that they are being asked to play are unlikely to be adventurous (would you take risks if you were asked to perform in an unfamiliar role?). Powell has now had the opportunity to get players in that suit the formation/style of play that he wants. It seems very clear that he wants to play with two wingers, one striker, one attacking midfielder (supporting the striker) and two deeper players (one who sits and one who is a bit more box to box). He tried that last season but was limited by the players at his disposal (Bunn needs more time to develop as a winger, Butterfield, Hogg and Coady weren't really attacking midfielders, Lolley and Vaughan were often injured, Holmes not ready etc). He has now brought in the players that he wants to have in the formation he wants to play (and has tried to play). Scannell and Carayol as wingers, Paterson as AM, two of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead as deeper CMs. He has versatility with Lolley (who can play RM or AM) and Bunn (who can play LM or ST), he has the third of Hogg, Huws and Whitehead who can come on, as well as Dempsey (who can now be eased into Championship football) and he has Cranie who is a more than adequate CB that can also fill in at fullback if need be. Even though Butterfield is a big loss, it may well be that losing him is a blessing in disguise as 1) the creativity may now come from three areas on the pitch (rather than 1/2) and 2) he doesn't really fit in the way Powell wants to play. The only two positions that I think Powell will have wanted to improve that he hasn't yet are RB and ST - an RB who, like Davidson on the left, can get forward and put crosses in, and a ST who is capable of playing as one up top (i.e. holding the ball up, bringing the wingers and AM into play then getting in the box for either the cross or the ball through from the AM). RB isn't too much of an issue (Smith does get up and support, even if it is a bit hit and miss at times), but ST certainly is. The only player who is capable of doing all three of the above is the Vaughan in his first and second seasons with us - 1) his body may not be up to the job any ore and 2) he may not be motivated to play like that for us. Miller can hold it up and bring others into play, but lacks the mobility to do that and then get in the box, Wells can get in the box but lacks the ability to hold it up and bring others into play. Another aspect is that the ST in this role doesn't need to get more than 10/15 goals per season, because if he plays the role effectively then the wingers and AM should also be able to get 10/15 goals each per season. I don't know much about Sordell at all, other than he was in the GB team. I also don't know how Ameobi is physically. He was seen as a very dependable player by Newcastle who would bring others into play and help to get the best of them. In his one season in the Championship (admittedly 5 years ago) he averaged one goal every two games. Plus he has higher level experience which may give him the bit of nouse that you need to play in that position. If we can get the right ST in for the role he is going to be asked to play, then I am optimistic about our prospects this season. If we don't, then we should not be surprised if it is Miller, rather than Wells, who starts as ST for us, because Miller is more likely to bring the best out of Scannell, Paterson and Carayol. This may not be a bad thing, if the team as a whole becomes more productive as a result, but it does set us up for the "Afobe vs Rhodes argument mk2".... The flip side is that Powell has no real excuse not to get us playing, as he is now the first manager since Clark who has had a real opportunity to properly stamp his authority on the team. As I say, though, I am quietly optimistic about this season and think that we have made some very shrewd signings. Time will tell... I agree with a lot of what you're saying but the bit highlighted is the key. Powell needs to take the shackles off and allow us to attack teams from the off and try to win games instead of trying not to lose them. You mean like Hull, Blackburn, Fulham and QPR did? How do you get the shackles off - I thought we attacked QPR from the off on Saturday.
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Post by teddytheterrier on Sept 3, 2015 12:55:15 GMT 1
Chris wood to lids was good business, he ll score 20 goals this season.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Sept 3, 2015 13:16:55 GMT 1
I agree with a lot of what you're saying but the bit highlighted is the key. Powell needs to take the shackles off and allow us to attack teams from the off and try to win games instead of trying not to lose them. You mean like Hull, Blackburn, Fulham and QPR did? How do you get the shackles off - I thought we attacked QPR from the off on Saturday. I didn't go on Saturday but we lost 1-0 and supposedly had one shot on target. Against Blackburn (I was there) we gave up trying to win the game and settled for a point with 20 minutes left against the worst Blackburn team I've seen for years. Three league goals in five games seems to tell its own story. If Huws is fit for Cardiff I'd put him in instead of Hogg or Whitehead, play with two wingers and have Paterson or Lolley either just behind or alongside Vaughan or Wells.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2015 13:29:15 GMT 1
The next 5 or 6 games will be huge for us and a great indication of what division we'll be playing in next season, I reckon.
I hope Powell knows what he's doing, because they have not directly addressed the weak areas that fans have been pointing out for a long time now.
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Post by jimmythebulldog on Sept 3, 2015 13:37:06 GMT 1
The next 5 or 6 games will be huge for us and a great indication of what division we'll be playing in next season, I reckon. I hope Powell knows what he's doing, because they have not directly addressed the weak areas that fans have been pointing out for a long time now. They're huge for Powell. If we're not out of the bottom 3 he's gone - or he should be.
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Post by de1terrier on Sept 3, 2015 13:42:40 GMT 1
Powell needs until christmas in my opinion. after that if we are no better/marginally better then its time to look into damage limitation, on current form and evidence I wouldn't trust him with the transfer kitty in January... but we have to give the bloke and his squad a chance to pull it round, I like the rest of you laughed my ass off seeing clubs go through managers at pace over recent years and we are in danger of becoming a laughing stock ourselves with regards manager turnover if not already there I don't necessarily believe Powell deserves the chance but we've seen it time and again where once the balance is right in a team the tactics fall into place for that to happen time with a stable management team and squad of players is the number one priority
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deadleg
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by deadleg on Sept 3, 2015 13:51:53 GMT 1
Good post as usual from Cheesy, you can see what Powell's idea is - my issue is more than I can't see it working that well, at least with the players we've brought in so far. Paterson, Scannell and Carayol will all have to have the scoring season of their lives to hit double figures as suggested. Even in a system that suits them I'm not sure how realistic that is. I'd love to see it but even if even two out of the three get 7/8 I'll be surprised, to be honest.
A striker is key as you say but I don't know where we're going to find someone who can hold the ball up, bring others into play and get 15-ish goals on our budget. Someone will be out there somewhere (and not necessarily in this country) but it'll be tough to find them.
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Post by fredcarno1 on Sept 3, 2015 14:02:35 GMT 1
Shola Ameobi or Marvin Sordell It's a bit like being capture by terrorist and offered the option of having your eye balls pulled out or having each finger nail pulled off with pliers Or Ishmael Miller so you can add electrodes to the testicles to your list !!
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Post by goodshot (FGS) on Sept 3, 2015 14:03:25 GMT 1
Frankiesleftpeg: We had a lot more of the game than QPR and put Wells and Miller into enough positions that if they had been good enough we could have / should have won. I couldn't feel any shackles on. It was much the same as the first half against Blackburn as far as I recall. The second half v Blackburn - can't really explain it. We looked shagged out after 20 minutes of the second half (particularly Miller, Buterfield and Scannell) and the injury to Rhodes benefitted them more than us and forced them to go direct. We didn't have much from the bench to come on to change it. Don't think we deliberately sat back for a point - just the way it worked out.
Don't know much about Huws to be honest - as he hasn't played for several months its going to be tough for him no matter how good he is. Think I'd have Dempsey in there.
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