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Post by specialun on Aug 28, 2015 10:05:24 GMT 1
Walter, you are absolutely right, I am. I need to just accept the utter nonsense that is going on down there Players wise and park-it. I just give a shit and know as a Club and Team, we are capable of so, so much more and that does not involve Hoyle putting his hands in his pockets. I do think in and amongst, you've got some valid points. Why isn't that academy producing players for our first team like Leeds or Barnsley, for example, are managing? We've disagreement over whether this is purely down to Powell not playing them, or other reasons. I don't get your point about Wallace at all. He's had some decent games for us in the last three season, but far too many where he's looked totally out of his depth. I can only see this loan spell as being good for him (assuming he plays) and struggle to read too much into a pre-season friendly played at walking pace. I think people need to remember with Dempsey, we're four games into the season and he's just come up from League Two. I'm sure he'll get his chance, but the role he seems to play in the team is the one currently occupied by Butterfield (as shown by the fact he came on for him at Fulham when he got a knock and started ahead of him in the cup), so it's surely understandable he's not featured as yet. The academy and the under 21s have won or been second in the last 2 seasons - beating leeds, beating barnsley So I really dont know what else theyre supposed to do You could tell me that we have good teams, good spirit etc without any real stars? Maybe thats the case ... in which case we need to get mr lillis to explain how he overachieved without any stars to mr powell so he can learn how! Isnt the reality is our boys have beaten the likes of leeds, barnsley over the last few seasons, our academy has produced these teams (with others in u21s).... Yet they've brought through taylor, byram, mowatt, cook etc and we let our players sit on the bench for experience and make the teas - When we had the opprtunity to expose one or two end of last year we didn't! Its too much of a risk for our first team management?
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k1man999
Andy Booth Terrier
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 10:09:26 GMT 1
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Post by k1man999 on Aug 28, 2015 10:09:26 GMT 1
Like dempsey we signed hula hoop we were told two bright young players ready t challenge. Yet one is benched the other sent on loan We used t say young players would want to come to us as they would play and chance to move forward. This coupled with lolly I think may make people think twice.
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Post by fredcarno1 on Aug 28, 2015 10:10:26 GMT 1
Barnsley have had same cracking young lads through that they've thrown into the first team and they've tturned out to be excellent. Sink or swim I think a lot of us would like to see us do the same.
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Post by Big Ern on Aug 28, 2015 10:12:08 GMT 1
I could understand not playing these players if we were winning games but we can't win for toffee!!!
Drop whitehead play Dempsey and let's take the bloody game to QPR
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Post by ShortbreadPete on Aug 28, 2015 10:14:16 GMT 1
Barnsley have had same cracking young lads through that they've thrown into the first team and they've tturned out to be excellent. Sink or swim I think a lot of us would like to see us do the same. Until we sink
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Post by Henry Mcgee on Aug 28, 2015 10:14:46 GMT 1
He'll get listed in the 'ruined any enthusiasm he had' group very soon with Hiwula & Lolley. POTY last year, scored/assisted 21 goals, good summer move so absolutely buzzing. Unused sub most weeks. Utterly shite rank bad management. So you'd drop Butterfield then? Or play two attacking midfielders & leave us exposed defensively? Straight out of the Powell no-risk football handbook. God forbid we adopt a more forward thinking approach. Our problem is that 2 of our 3 central midfielders create next to nothing (though Hogg offers plenty of other things) so Butterfield ends up dropping back and picking up balls to play forward to, err, err - oh to fucking nobody cause Whitehead & Hogg are both still behind him. Maybe 2 forward thinking midfielders might see us having possession further up the pitch and taking the pressure off the back four - revolutionary eh? I really hate the modern day 'defensive' midfielder obsession - it allows average midfielders to cheat their way through games by just moving crab-like across the field in front of the back four. Coady never cheated - he got involved all over the park because he was a better player - I hope the other new signings (Dempsey, Carayol, Hughs) are 'better' players and can offer us more going forward - AND GET PICKED.
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 10:14:55 GMT 1
Post by eastterrace on Aug 28, 2015 10:14:55 GMT 1
How did Lillis overachieve?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 10:18:41 GMT 1
I do think in and amongst, you've got some valid points. Why isn't that academy producing players for our first team like Leeds or Barnsley, for example, are managing? We've disagreement over whether this is purely down to Powell not playing them, or other reasons. I don't get your point about Wallace at all. He's had some decent games for us in the last three season, but far too many where he's looked totally out of his depth. I can only see this loan spell as being good for him (assuming he plays) and struggle to read too much into a pre-season friendly played at walking pace. I think people need to remember with Dempsey, we're four games into the season and he's just come up from League Two. I'm sure he'll get his chance, but the role he seems to play in the team is the one currently occupied by Butterfield (as shown by the fact he came on for him at Fulham when he got a knock and started ahead of him in the cup), so it's surely understandable he's not featured as yet. The academy and the under 21s have won or been second in the last 2 seasons - beating leeds, beating barnsley So I really dont know what else theyre supposed to do You could tell me that we have good teams, good spirit etc without any real stars? Maybe thats the case ... in which case we need to get mr lillis to explain how he overachieved without any stars to mr powell so he can learn how! Isnt the reality is our boys have beaten the likes of leeds, barnsley over the last few seasons, our academy has produced these teams (with others in u21s).... Yet they've brought through taylor, byram, mowatt, cook etc and we let our players sit on the bench for experience and make the teas - When we had the opprtunity to expose one or two end of last year we didn't! Its too much of a risk for our first team management? what they have won iss irelavant its wether any of them can step up to first team level leeds youngsters did. ours havnt and its a problem and every one has to be accounted for both coaches and players.
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Post by benhomly on Aug 28, 2015 10:23:19 GMT 1
The academy and the under 21s have won or been second in the last 2 seasons - beating leeds, beating barnsley So I really dont know what else theyre supposed to do You could tell me that we have good teams, good spirit etc without any real stars? Maybe thats the case ... in which case we need to get mr lillis to explain how he overachieved without any stars to mr powell so he can learn how! Isnt the reality is our boys have beaten the likes of leeds, barnsley over the last few seasons, our academy has produced these teams (with others in u21s).... Yet they've brought through taylor, byram, mowatt, cook etc and we let our players sit on the bench for experience and make the teas - When we had the opprtunity to expose one or two end of last year we didn't! Its too much of a risk for our first team management? what they have won iss irelavant its wether any of them can step up to first team level leeds youngsters did. ours havnt and its a problem and every one has to be accounted for both coaches and players. Presumably Leeds didn't win the U21 league because 5 of their players were on first team duty for much of last season. If they'd been playing in the U21 league then they would have probably finished top - ie their youngsters are better than ours. It's not rocket science.
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 10:25:00 GMT 1
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Post by specialun on Aug 28, 2015 10:25:00 GMT 1
How did Lillis overachieve? .....He must be a miracle worker to produce a team that wins the under 18 league two years in a row if he doesnt have any good enough players to make the step up
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 10:27:03 GMT 1
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Post by specialun on Aug 28, 2015 10:27:03 GMT 1
what they have won iss irelavant its wether any of them can step up to first team level leeds youngsters did. ours havnt and its a problem and every one has to be accounted for both coaches and players. Presumably Leeds didn't win the U21 league because 5 of their players were on first team duty for much of last season. If they'd been playing in the U21 league then they would have probably finished top - ie their youngsters are better than ours. It's not rocket science. I take that, a fair pont (and maybe we had more over age players etc - i don't know) The year before? Perhaps the same? And the two under 18 seasons we won?
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Deleted
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 10:28:34 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 10:28:34 GMT 1
The academy and the under 21s have won or been second in the last 2 seasons - beating leeds, beating barnsley So I really dont know what else theyre supposed to do You could tell me that we have good teams, good spirit etc without any real stars? Maybe thats the case ... in which case we need to get mr lillis to explain how he overachieved without any stars to mr powell so he can learn how! Isnt the reality is our boys have beaten the likes of leeds, barnsley over the last few seasons, our academy has produced these teams (with others in u21s).... Yet they've brought through taylor, byram, mowatt, cook etc and we let our players sit on the bench for experience and make the teas - When we had the opprtunity to expose one or two end of last year we didn't! Its too much of a risk for our first team management? what they have won iss irelavant its wether any of them can step up to first team level leeds youngsters did. ours havnt and its a problem and every one has to be accounted for both coaches and players. Spot on im afraid there will be a shake up if things dont progress foe what it costs we arnt getting the rewards . not saying some wont but some around the u21s wont make it at championship level
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 10:31:13 GMT 1
Post by Henry Mcgee on Aug 28, 2015 10:31:13 GMT 1
what they have won iss irelavant its wether any of them can step up to first team level leeds youngsters did. ours havnt and its a problem and every one has to be accounted for both coaches and players. Presumably Leeds didn't win the U21 league because 5 of their players were on first team duty for much of last season. If they'd been playing in the U21 league then they would have probably finished top - ie their youngsters are better than ours. It's not rocket science. That's a very good point - but surely that doesn't mean that we don't have the odd youngster that can shift shit like Smith and Whitehead out of the 1st team. I just can't believe we don't - and if we don't then Lillis & co (or our talent spotter) need replacing.
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Deleted
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 10:31:22 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 10:31:22 GMT 1
what they have won iss irelavant its wether any of them can step up to first team level leeds youngsters did. ours havnt and its a problem and every one has to be accounted for both coaches and players. Spot on im afraid there will be a shake up if things dont progress foe what it costs we arnt getting the rewards . not saying some wont but some around the u21s wont make it at championship level sorry my last post was a reply to the post that other clubs youngsters are better than ours
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Post by terriersyndrome on Aug 28, 2015 10:34:41 GMT 1
[quote author=" Henry Mcgee" source="/post/1775409/ thread" timestamp="1440753286"] So you'd drop Butterfield then? Or play two attacking midfielders & leave us exposed defensively? Straight out of the Powell no-risk football handbook. God forbid we adopt a more forward thinking approach. Our problem is that 2 of our 3 central midfielders create next to nothing (though Hogg offers plenty of other things) so Butterfield ends up dropping back and picking up balls to play forward to, err, err - oh to fucking nobody cause Whitehead & Hogg are both still behind him. Maybe 2 forward thinking midfielders might see us having possession further up the pitch and taking the pressure off the back four - revolutionary eh? I really hate the modern day 'defensive' midfielder obsession - it allows average midfielders to cheat their way through games by just moving crab-like across the field in front of the back four. Coady never cheated - he got involved all over the park because he was a better player - I hope the other new signings (Dempsey, Carayol, Hughs) are 'better' players and can offer us more going forward - AND GET PICKED.[/quote] There was me thinking we had one of the worst goals against columns in the championship last season & things needed tightening up? What the fuck do I know when tactical geniuses like you are about, eh? Bet you were doing your nut when we were conceding goals for fun last season.. Fucking hypocrite, you can't have it both ways sunshine, scoring goals wasn't much of an issue last season, it was the alarming rate we conceded them, that's not just down to our defence is it? They were also lacking any protection from midfield, which seemed pretty obvious, no?
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Post by benhomly on Aug 28, 2015 10:38:09 GMT 1
Presumably Leeds didn't win the U21 league because 5 of their players were on first team duty for much of last season. If they'd been playing in the U21 league then they would have probably finished top - ie their youngsters are better than ours. It's not rocket science. That's a very good point - but surely that doesn't mean that we don't have the odd youngster that can shift shit like Smith and Whitehead out of the 1st team. I just can't believe we don't - and if we don't then Lillis & co (or our talent spotter) need replacing. There's definitely something wrong and i've said before our academy can't be worth the money if it only produces one good player every 5 years or so. Think you're being a bit harsh on Smith and Whitehead. I think we need to replace Smith if we want to progress but he's not 'shit'. As for Whithead I know it's only 4 games but we're averaging 1.3 goals conceded per game so far compared to 1.6 last season; a significant improvement? Whether that's coz he's in the team is open to debate but he did play for a team who came within 90 minutes of promotion last season and you can't just turn 'shit' over a summer.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 10:42:47 GMT 1
That's a very good point - but surely that doesn't mean that we don't have the odd youngster that can shift shit like Smith and Whitehead out of the 1st team. I just can't believe we don't - and if we don't then Lillis & co (or our talent spotter) need replacing. There's definitely something wrong and i've said before our academy can't be worth the money if it only produces one good player every 5 years or so. Think you're being a bit harsh on Smith and Whitehead. I think we need to replace Smith if we want to progress but he's not 'shit'. As for Whithead I know it's only 4 games but we're averaging 1.3 goals conceded per game so far compared to 1.6 last season; a significant improvement? Whether that's coz he's in the team is open to debate but he did play for a team who came within 90 minutes of promotion last season and you can't just turn 'shit' over a summer. Think I must have missed the meeting where it was decided Whitehead (or fathead/shithead as he's hilariously being renamed by some Ivy-leaguers) was shit. I've seen him play twice and he's done his job well in both games.
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Post by Henry Mcgee on Aug 28, 2015 10:46:58 GMT 1
[quote author=" Henry Mcgee" source="/post/1775409/ thread" timestamp="1440753286"] So you'd drop Butterfield then? Or play two attacking midfielders & leave us exposed defensively? Straight out of the Powell no-risk football handbook. God forbid we adopt a more forward thinking approach. Our problem is that 2 of our 3 central midfielders create next to nothing (though Hogg offers plenty of other things) so Butterfield ends up dropping back and picking up balls to play forward to, err, err - oh to fucking nobody cause Whitehead & Hogg are both still behind him. Maybe 2 forward thinking midfielders might see us having possession further up the pitch and taking the pressure off the back four - revolutionary eh? I really hate the modern day 'defensive' midfielder obsession - it allows average midfielders to cheat their way through games by just moving crab-like across the field in front of the back four. Coady never cheated - he got involved all over the park because he was a better player - I hope the other new signings (Dempsey, Carayol, Hughs) are 'better' players and can offer us more going forward - AND GET PICKED. There was me thinking we had one of the worst goals against columns in the championship last season & things needed tightening up? What the fuck do I know when tactical geniuses like you are about, eh? Bet you were doing your nut when we were conceding goals for fun last season.. Fucking hypocrite, you can't have it both ways sunshine, scoring goals wasn't much of an issue last season, it was the alarming rate we conceded them, that's not just down to our defence is it? They were also lacking any protection from midfield, which seemed pretty obvious, no? [/quote] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL - you've managed to make it look like I posted that 'heads-gone' rant. Shame is, there was some reasoned argument somewhere in there - this may help you www.nhs.uk/Conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/Pages/controlling-anger.aspx
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Post by thedailyview on Aug 28, 2015 10:58:43 GMT 1
He'll get listed in the 'ruined any enthusiasm he had' group very soon with Hiwula & Lolley. POTY last year, scored/assisted 21 goals, good summer move so absolutely buzzing. Unused sub most weeks. Utterly shite rank bad management. So you'd drop Butterfield then? Or play two attacking midfielders & leave us exposed defensively? I certainly wouldn't start Hogg AND Whitehead together. We have good attacking players in the squad but a manager who relies on being tight at the back(and we all know how that ends with us). We don't 'go for' teams when we could/should. Dempsey would start for me.
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 11:42:06 GMT 1
Post by fredcarno1 on Aug 28, 2015 11:42:06 GMT 1
Barnsley have had same cracking young lads through that they've thrown into the first team and they've tturned out to be excellent. Sink or swim I think a lot of us would like to see us do the same. Until we sink Not won a game this season League or cup after being dreadful in pre season we ain't exactly swimming along at the minute !!
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 17:36:56 GMT 1
Post by Chips Longhorn on Aug 28, 2015 17:36:56 GMT 1
Barnsley have had same cracking young lads through that they've thrown into the first team and they've tturned out to be excellent. Sink or swim I think a lot of us would like to see us do the same. No doubt if you were a Barnsley fan you would have been the first to have been slagging their player recruitment when they got relegated 15 months ago ... Similarly when they failed to poke their heads above mid table in league one last year ... They're going to get a lot of money for Stones,,, I say that's more luck than judgement
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 18:30:21 GMT 1
Post by 3Pipe on Aug 28, 2015 18:30:21 GMT 1
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 18:43:58 GMT 1
Post by bluedogs, Esq. on Aug 28, 2015 18:43:58 GMT 1
It said on SSN today he and his family have moved out of their home because of threats from angry Everton fans if true i cant see why the club would want to force him to stay
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 18:58:34 GMT 1
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Aug 28, 2015 18:58:34 GMT 1
Barnsley have had same cracking young lads through that they've thrown into the first team and they've tturned out to be excellent. Sink or swim I think a lot of us would like to see us do the same. No doubt if you were a Barnsley fan you would have been the first to have been slagging their player recruitment when they got relegated 15 months ago ... Similarly when they failed to poke their heads above mid table in league one last year ... They're going to get a lot of money for Stones,,, I say that's more luck than judgement Think you are right - it wasn't a plan! QPR lucked into £11mm on the Sterling deal apparently. Didn't our new lad Webber have some involvement with that initially?
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Post by Porrohman on Aug 28, 2015 18:59:22 GMT 1
It said on SSN today he and his family have moved out of their home because of threats from angry Everton fans if true i cant see why the club would want to force him to stay The lot at the other side of Stanley park didn't exactly cover themselves in glory when Stevie Me was going to Chelsea Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 22:22:04 GMT 1
Post by waltzingthecowshed on Aug 28, 2015 22:22:04 GMT 1
I could understand not playing these players if we were winning games but we can't win for toffee!!! Drop whitehead play Dempsey and let's take the bloody game to QPR great post - lets end the negative approach
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Deleted
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 22:30:09 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 22:30:09 GMT 1
[quote author=" Henry Mcgee" source="/post/1775409/ thread" timestamp="1440753286"] So you'd drop Butterfield then? Or play two attacking midfielders & leave us exposed defensively? Straight out of the Powell no-risk football handbook. God forbid we adopt a more forward thinking approach. Our problem is that 2 of our 3 central midfielders create next to nothing (though Hogg offers plenty of other things) so Butterfield ends up dropping back and picking up balls to play forward to, err, err - oh to fucking nobody cause Whitehead & Hogg are both still behind him. Maybe 2 forward thinking midfielders might see us having possession further up the pitch and taking the pressure off the back four - revolutionary eh? I really hate the modern day 'defensive' midfielder obsession - it allows average midfielders to cheat their way through games by just moving crab-like across the field in front of the back four. Coady never cheated - he got involved all over the park because he was a better player - I hope the other new signings (Dempsey, Carayol, Hughs) are 'better' players and can offer us more going forward - AND GET PICKED. There was me thinking we had one of the worst goals against columns in the championship last season & things needed tightening up? What the fuck do I know when tactical geniuses like you are about, eh? Bet you were doing your nut when we were conceding goals for fun last season.. Fucking hypocrite, you can't have it both ways sunshine, scoring goals wasn't much of an issue last season, it was the alarming rate we conceded them, that's not just down to our defence is it? They were also lacking any protection from midfield, which seemed pretty obvious, no? I really hate the modern day 'defensive' midfielder obsession - it allows average midfielders to cheat their way through games by just moving crab-like across the field in front of the back four [/quote] I think it's allowed very average players to cheat their way through whole careers! I used to watch Keane and Ince in their prime, both brilliant defensively and both brilliant rampaging forward or arriving late in the box. Compete midfielders. I hate professional midfielders who can't shoot, pass or run!!!
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 22:32:13 GMT 1
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Aug 28, 2015 22:32:13 GMT 1
[quote author=" Henry Mcgee" source="/post/1775409/ thread" timestamp="1440753286"] So you'd drop Butterfield then? Or play two attacking midfielders & leave us exposed defensively? Straight out of the Powell no-risk football handbook. God forbid we adopt a more forward thinking approach. Our problem is that 2 of our 3 central midfielders create next to nothing (though Hogg offers plenty of other things) so Butterfield ends up dropping back and picking up balls to play forward to, err, err - oh to fucking nobody cause Whitehead & Hogg are both still behind him. Maybe 2 forward thinking midfielders might see us having possession further up the pitch and taking the pressure off the back four - revolutionary eh? I really hate the modern day 'defensive' midfielder obsession - it allows average midfielders to cheat their way through games by just moving crab-like across the field in front of the back four. Coady never cheated - he got involved all over the park because he was a better player - I hope the other new signings (Dempsey, Carayol, Hughs) are 'better' players and can offer us more going forward - AND GET PICKED. There was me thinking we had one of the worst goals against columns in the championship last season & things needed tightening up? What the fuck do I know when tactical geniuses like you are about, eh? Bet you were doing your nut when we were conceding goals for fun last season.. Fucking hypocrite, you can't have it both ways sunshine, scoring goals wasn't much of an issue last season, it was the alarming rate we conceded them, that's not just down to our defence is it? They were also lacking any protection from midfield, which seemed pretty obvious, no? [/quote] Maybe if we played more in the opposition half we might concede a few less instead of sitting back and inviting pressure, which usually results in us conceding.
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Dempsey
Aug 28, 2015 22:39:56 GMT 1
Post by wtd on Aug 28, 2015 22:39:56 GMT 1
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Post by Porrohman on Aug 28, 2015 23:54:20 GMT 1
Still think he looks like a young Chris Marsden though Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
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