|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 16:28:12 GMT 1
Post by captainbob on Oct 2, 2015 16:28:12 GMT 1
OK everyone's right on this one. The point is what next? A bit Churchillian, and he was the Liberal MP for that village next to the West Riding, Oldham, why can't we just dig in and fight? We won't have too much money but do we have anything else? Possibly a bit too old fashioned an approach but "dig in and fight" isn't such a bad idea. Probably too idealistic for most. Dean use the internet! There's plenty out there that would snap your arm off to play in a championship team! Mad I maybe, but I'm still a Town fan and I won't give up. PS I don't have any money!!!
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 16:37:35 GMT 1
Post by thrice on Oct 2, 2015 16:37:35 GMT 1
£35m and counting Marcus. £35 fucking million. And how much of that £35M was actually put into something owned by Hoyle? How much was the money put into Canalside, (Which he also owns?). I've been grateful for what he has done, but it's fairly obvious now that he wants out. He stopped funding the club a while ago. It's time some one here realised that. At this rate, the club should make a sizeable profit this year, due to the fire sale and loaning out anyone we can to get them off the wage bill. It would be nice but no chance!
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 16:40:22 GMT 1
Post by thrice on Oct 2, 2015 16:40:22 GMT 1
Que sera sera with Huws but we need not fear him not being around.
I know it is still very early days but Clayton < Butterfield < Huws < ......?
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 16:57:34 GMT 1
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 2, 2015 16:57:34 GMT 1
He's entitled to put in what ever he feels fit. Marcus is making it out like Hoyle is corrupt and fleecing the club. Do you feel like he's not quite chucking in enough cash at it for you? Not at all. You've grabbed the wrong end of the stick again. It's not corruption or fleecing, just that he wants out and is liquidising the assets rather than continuing funding the club's shortfall. The point I'm making is that all his "We're selling our best players to re-invest in the squad" bollocks, is just that. The money will not be spent on transfers, the owner is cashing his chips in. We are going to be in limbo, with ever decreasing asset value now until the next rich owner comes in wanting to play at owning a football club. Our current one appears to want out now. "Butterfield is not for sale" "Smithies is not for sale" "The club is not for sale" Until "the right buyer comes along". Where did the £1.3mm come from for Nahki? I think what Dean is telling you is that (over and above the monthly losses) he will invest further if he sees a value opportunity. Money will always be available for that. Re-investing from your "war chest" is not easy. Look how Spurs and Liverpool have fucked up with their funds from flogging Bale and Suarez. They sell one star asset and buy 10 flops.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 18:03:03 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 18:03:03 GMT 1
Come back in February. If we've not spent anything then you may have more of an argument. It's a bit like buying a house. Just because you want it doesn't mean you can have it. Prices miraculously go up once an offer is in... Same old same old... In the Summer we get told they'll buy in January, in January we are told there is no value and they'll wait until the summer. Heard it all before over the last 2 or 3 seasons. So in the last 2/3 seasons we haven't bought ANY of the following players then. Vaughan Butterfield Wells Coady Clayton Davidson Craine Whitehead Hogg So I've made all those names up? I assume you know for a fact that we won't buy Huws and Muzzi? I'm also assuming that since we've made a profit every season for the last 7 years of Deans chairmanship that any money he does take and trouser that he should pack up and fuck off for being a tight twat?
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 18:09:17 GMT 1
Post by Detective Boyle on Oct 2, 2015 18:09:17 GMT 1
Yes, that is how I feel at this moment in time. We simply have to spend money to improve in this league now Ok, so if that's how you feel, will you please find me a direct quote from Dean Hoyle in which he states that he will no longer be spending another penny on Improving the playing squad. When you've found it, we can continue you this. If not, get your cheque book out. Deans got stuff wrong, this seasons ticket prices being the main one. To say that he's trousering profits from player sales is quite honestly embarrassing when the club is LOSING £500k a month. I don't think he's fleecing the club for his personal gain. I just honestly think the philosophy we have won't get us anywhere and we'll tread water until relegation. Not trying to be a negative twit but that's just how I see this division to be nowadays
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 18:10:36 GMT 1
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 2, 2015 18:10:36 GMT 1
Same old same old... In the Summer we get told they'll buy in January, in January we are told there is no value and they'll wait until the summer. Heard it all before over the last 2 or 3 seasons. So in the last 2/3 seasons we haven't bought ANY of the following players then. Vaughan Butterfield Wells Coady Clayton Davidson Craine Whitehead Hogg So I've made all those names up? I assume you know for a fact that we won't buy Huws and Muzzi? I'm also assuming that since we've made a profit every season for the last 7 years of Deans chairmanship that any money he does take and trouser that he should pack up and fuck off for being a tight twat? Don't forget Jordy and Dempsey (and Rhodes, Pilkington, Peltier, Clark......). What I think Dean has figured out is that you can make a better business/club out of buying players in the £200k-£600k bracket than you can by paying in the million pound arena! Ward/Wells being his million pound examples! He should have shelled out for Lambert though instead of Robbie Simpson.
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 18:14:51 GMT 1
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 2, 2015 18:14:51 GMT 1
Ok, so if that's how you feel, will you please find me a direct quote from Dean Hoyle in which he states that he will no longer be spending another penny on Improving the playing squad. When you've found it, we can continue you this. If not, get your cheque book out. Deans got stuff wrong, this seasons ticket prices being the main one. To say that he's trousering profits from player sales is quite honestly embarrassing when the club is LOSING £500k a month. I don't think he's fleecing the club for his personal gain. I just honestly think the philosophy we have won't get us anywhere and we'll tread water until relegation. Not trying to be a negative twit but that's just how I see this division to be nowadays I haven't seen any teams in this division that we are not competitive with. Must admit I had a dip in that thinking when Butterfield went! Has anyone watched Butterfield playing for Derby? I've seen him twice on the telly and he doesn't look like a £6mm player! Playing quite a different role for them than he did for us but Derby seemed to have turned the corner since he arrived.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 18:37:07 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 18:37:07 GMT 1
Ok, so if that's how you feel, will you please find me a direct quote from Dean Hoyle in which he states that he will no longer be spending another penny on Improving the playing squad. When you've found it, we can continue you this. If not, get your cheque book out. Deans got stuff wrong, this seasons ticket prices being the main one. To say that he's trousering profits from player sales is quite honestly embarrassing when the club is LOSING £500k a month. I don't think he's fleecing the club for his personal gain. I just honestly think the philosophy we have won't get us anywhere and we'll tread water until relegation. Not trying to be a negative twit but that's just how I see this division to be nowadays We aren't treading water though, are we?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 18:37:35 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 18:37:35 GMT 1
I don't think he's fleecing the club for his personal gain. I just honestly think the philosophy we have won't get us anywhere and we'll tread water until relegation. Not trying to be a negative twit but that's just how I see this division to be nowadays I haven't seen any teams in this division that we are not competitive with. Must admit I had a dip in that thinking when Butterfield went! Has anyone watched Butterfield playing for Derby? I've seen him twice on the telly and he doesn't look like a £6mm player! Playing quite a different role for them than he did for us but Derby seemed to have turned the corner since he arrived. Liar.
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 18:59:36 GMT 1
Post by York Terrier on Oct 2, 2015 18:59:36 GMT 1
£2-3 million would be a snip if Butterfield is worth £5 million, plus we wouldn't have to pay that much for him. We could part exchange one of our players. Can we agree now? that at the end of the season we can part exchange Miller, Smith and possibly dare I say it Wells for him?
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 19:11:04 GMT 1
Post by dalton knee-jerk on Oct 2, 2015 19:11:04 GMT 1
Slow & steady wins the race... A few clubs take this route, build up a league below, get some consistency & then that stability serves them well in the madness of the PL when they finally make that last successful push. Not that long ago would you have heard such things as WBA, Stoke etc. being classed as PL regulars but there they are, plus a couple of others if I could be bothered to look at recent history. Compare that with a few other one/two season wonders of this world such as Bradford & Leeds as very local examples (admittedly Leeds should have learned their lesson to stabilise but went chasing European glory when TV money started to go daft). To some degree these sort of clubs played boom or bust football, won the one decent hand of poker but thereafter have struggled to get anywhere near that level again because their business model was flawed or they took the money right out of the club as soon as they achieved their objective of milking the TV gravy train... Unfortunately (tin hat time), I don't have accurate stats to back some of the above up other than the Ridsdale/Seth Johnson anecdote & the fancy Italian that Bradford signed. The point being here, is that I'd rather we build a stable platform, get to a point where we've earned respect as a steady member of this division and be in a position to kick on with a degree of stability & without wishing to sound patronising, become a Stoke... I imagine if you'd asked Leeds fans when they were in L1 a few yrs back, if they'd be happy in 3-5 yrs time to become a Stoke they'd have either punched you or collapsed laughing... Ask that same Q now & the sensible ones would snap your hands off... The words nail hit and head spring to mind but it's FAR too sensible for some on here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 19:39:08 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 19:39:08 GMT 1
£2-3 million would be a snip if Butterfield is worth £5 million, plus we wouldn't have to pay that much for him. We could part exchange one of our players. Can we agree now? that at the end of the season we can part exchange Miller, Smith and possibly dare I say it Wells for him? And when you've done all that we still won't be able to afford this multi million pound players wages.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 19:40:58 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 19:40:58 GMT 1
Youll be in big boys shoes with laces one day Marcus, until then stop posting please One day, you'll be able to read nine words in a row.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 19:45:25 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 19:45:25 GMT 1
And how much of that £35M was actually put into something owned by Hoyle? How much was the money put into Canalside, (Which he also owns?). I've been grateful for what he has done, but it's fairly obvious now that he wants out. He stopped funding the club a while ago. It's time some one here realised that. At this rate, the club should make a sizeable profit this year, due to the fire sale and loaning out anyone we can to get them off the wage bill. It would be nice but no chance! Hoyle puts in less than £7m. We have made that in transfers AND reduced wages and squad size. Your call.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 19:48:14 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 19:48:14 GMT 1
Not at all. You've grabbed the wrong end of the stick again. It's not corruption or fleecing, just that he wants out and is liquidising the assets rather than continuing funding the club's shortfall. The point I'm making is that all his "We're selling our best players to re-invest in the squad" bollocks, is just that. The money will not be spent on transfers, the owner is cashing his chips in. We are going to be in limbo, with ever decreasing asset value now until the next rich owner comes in wanting to play at owning a football club. Our current one appears to want out now. "Butterfield is not for sale" "Smithies is not for sale" "The club is not for sale" Until "the right buyer comes along". Where did the £1.3mm come from for Nahki? I think what Dean is telling you is that (over and above the monthly losses) he will invest further if he sees a value opportunity. Money will always be available for that. Re-investing from your "war chest" is not easy. Look how Spurs and Liverpool have fucked up with their funds from flogging Bale and Suarez. They sell one star asset and buy 10 flops. Dean HAS been funding the club. There club should be seriously in profit at the moment, due to the fire sale of assets.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 19:50:28 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 19:50:28 GMT 1
Same old same old... In the Summer we get told they'll buy in January, in January we are told there is no value and they'll wait until the summer. Heard it all before over the last 2 or 3 seasons. So in the last 2/3 seasons we haven't bought ANY of the following players then. Vaughan Butterfield Wells Coady Clayton Davidson Craine Whitehead Hogg So I've made all those names up? I assume you know for a fact that we won't buy Huws and Muzzi? I'm also assuming that since we've made a profit every season for the last 7 years of Deans chairmanship that any money he does take and trouser that he should pack up and fuck off for being a tight twat? Not longer going to play/ sold for a profit/ free/ average, applies to most of them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 19:59:04 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 19:59:04 GMT 1
So in the last 2/3 seasons we haven't bought ANY of the following players then. Vaughan Butterfield Wells Coady Clayton Davidson Craine Whitehead Hogg So I've made all those names up? I assume you know for a fact that we won't buy Huws and Muzzi? I'm also assuming that since we've made a profit every season for the last 7 years of Deans chairmanship that any money he does take and trouser that he should pack up and fuck off for being a tight twat? Not longer going to play/ sold for a profit/ free/ average, applies to most of them. you've just confirmed to me, you're clueless about football.
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 21:12:33 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by yoy on Oct 2, 2015 21:12:33 GMT 1
Come back in February. If we've not spent anything then you may have more of an argument. It's a bit like buying a house. Just because you want it doesn't mean you can have it. Prices miraculously go up once an offer is in... Same old same old... In the Summer we get told they'll buy in January, in January we are told there is no value and they'll wait until the summer. Heard it all before over the last 2 or 3 seasons. And you'll also have noticed the improvement in league placings over the very same two or three seasons...
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 21:19:29 GMT 1
Post by haveitback on Oct 2, 2015 21:19:29 GMT 1
Not longer going to play/ sold for a profit/ free/ average, applies to most of them. you've just confirmed to me, you're clueless about football. marcusd, I know the point you are trying to make regarding the club, I have to say though that on this you are wrong, The addition of these loan players especially the ones which have featured have made a real difference, I can say you are wrong because i had the same mindset as you a few weeks back but having seen these lads play i have changed my mind i am happy to say. Your opinion of what Dean might or might not be doing with the regards to the club is not important at the moment, What i have been happy to see over the last couple of weeks, Is a change in tactic by CP, Some quality players added to the squad and the team playing well, Fighting and showing passion, When that is served up on a match day i am more than happy to keep my opinions to myself, Because with what i have seen lately i am more than happy. UTT
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 22:14:10 GMT 1
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 2, 2015 22:14:10 GMT 1
Where did the £1.3mm come from for Nahki? I think what Dean is telling you is that (over and above the monthly losses) he will invest further if he sees a value opportunity. Money will always be available for that. Re-investing from your "war chest" is not easy. Look how Spurs and Liverpool have fucked up with their funds from flogging Bale and Suarez. They sell one star asset and buy 10 flops. Dean HAS been funding the club. There club should be seriously in profit at the moment, due to the fire sale of assets. I suspect I'm not the first - I give in.
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 2, 2015 23:50:28 GMT 1
Post by shawsie on Oct 2, 2015 23:50:28 GMT 1
It would be nice but no chance! Hoyle puts in less than £7m. We have made that in transfers AND reduced wages and squad size. Your call. No we havent! Clubs now pay for players over the contract length - assuming 3 yrs for all thats a cash boost of c2.5m this year and the next two. Add say another 1m in wages savings from player releases and its half the figure you quote.....not to mention the negative cash impact of dempsey, whitehead, huws, hiwula, ward, miller, carayol etc. I dont think anyone can say our recruitment has been good in the last two summers, but its not just down to money.
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 3, 2015 0:36:51 GMT 1
Post by ritchie on Oct 3, 2015 0:36:51 GMT 1
its a shame we couldnt agree an option to buy fee - no reason we wouldnt have tried at our end - so seems obvious wigan value him highly.
Ultimately i cant see him being here next season...seems we're a bit priced out on this one. If he keeps up current form he'll be gone in January IMO as they will recall and sell
Just need to make the most of it
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 3, 2015 0:56:46 GMT 1
Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Oct 3, 2015 0:56:46 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by Giggity on Oct 3, 2015 1:53:24 GMT 1
Always the danger with a loan. You rarely profit in the long-term. That always used to be the case and I think we have suffered in the past from having loanees at the core of the team (like Drinkwater) and having to rebuild when they have gone. In the new world though effectively Coady and Butterfield have only bean "loans" - so we might as well get used to it Always the case. Seen the likes of Morrison, Afobe, Kelly, Drinkwater etc excel with us. Always the case when we are loaning from teams who are financially stronger. It was good whilst in lasted.
|
|
|
Post by terrier13 on Oct 3, 2015 8:12:16 GMT 1
Ok, so if that's how you feel, will you please find me a direct quote from Dean Hoyle in which he states that he will no longer be spending another penny on Improving the playing squad. When you've found it, we can continue you this. If not, get your cheque book out. Deans got stuff wrong, this seasons ticket prices being the main one. To say that he's trousering profits from player sales is quite honestly embarrassing when the club is LOSING £500k a month. I don't think he's fleecing the club for his personal gain. I just honestly think the philosophy we have won't get us anywhere and we'll tread water until relegation. Not trying to be a negative twit but that's just how I see this division to be nowadays I'm just not sure how you're coming to that opinion. Granted we didn't make the best start to the season but since we picked up our first win we look a much superior side to the one we saw last year. As many have pointed out before, the fact that we come away from games like Fulham away feeling agitated that we only came away with a draw is a testiment of the progression we've made. The same applies for Brighton at home, QPR at home. A couple of years ago when we all thought we were the dogs bollocks in league one giving teams like Wycombe a beating Fulham were playing Atletico in the Europa Cup final. Yes their fortuntes have seen a drastic demise but the point stands. I think a lot of people are confusing progression with an unexpected jump up the leagues.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 3, 2015 8:20:26 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 8:20:26 GMT 1
That always used to be the case and I think we have suffered in the past from having loanees at the core of the team (like Drinkwater) and having to rebuild when they have gone. In the new world though effectively Coady and Butterfield have only bean "loans" - so we might as well get used to it :) Always the case. Seen the likes of Morrison, Afobe, Kelly, Drinkwater etc excel with us. Always the case when we are loaning from teams who are financially stronger. It was good whilst in lasted. Just a shame that the only example of it working the other way is Jack Hunt and that was about 6 years ago.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Huws
Oct 3, 2015 10:13:59 GMT 1
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 10:13:59 GMT 1
you've just confirmed to me, you're clueless about football. marcusd, I know the point you are trying to make regarding the club, I have to say though that on this you are wrong, The addition of these loan players especially the ones which have featured have made a real difference, I can say you are wrong because i had the same mindset as you a few weeks back but having seen these lads play i have changed my mind i am happy to say. Your opinion of what Dean might or might not be doing with the regards to the club is not important at the moment, What i have been happy to see over the last couple of weeks, Is a change in tactic by CP, Some quality players added to the squad and the team playing well, Fighting and showing passion, When that is served up on a match day i am more than happy to keep my opinions to myself, Because with what i have seen lately i am more than happy. UTT
As we were told by Hoyle a few weeks ago, The manager has had a say in bringing in Carayol, Huws and Ward, Rather than having players thrust upon him that were chosen by someone else.
If you are having a manager let him bring players in, Otherwise he is just a head coach.
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 3, 2015 10:55:21 GMT 1
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 3, 2015 10:55:21 GMT 1
That always used to be the case and I think we have suffered in the past from having loanees at the core of the team (like Drinkwater) and having to rebuild when they have gone. In the new world though effectively Coady and Butterfield have only bean "loans" - so we might as well get used to it Always the case. Seen the likes of Morrison, Afobe, Kelly, Drinkwater etc excel with us. Always the case when we are loaning from teams who are financially stronger. It was good whilst in lasted. I think we are agreeing - good for the short term - but leave us with problems in team building/rebuilding in the long run. As I said though Butterfield and Coady weren't here long and leave us with the same longer term problems.
|
|
|
Huws
Oct 3, 2015 11:01:21 GMT 1
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 3, 2015 11:01:21 GMT 1
I don't think he's fleecing the club for his personal gain. I just honestly think the philosophy we have won't get us anywhere and we'll tread water until relegation. Not trying to be a negative twit but that's just how I see this division to be nowadays I'm just not sure how you're coming to that opinion. Granted we didn't make the best start to the season but since we picked up our first win we look a much superior side to the one we saw last year. As many have pointed out before, the fact that we come away from games like Fulham away feeling agitated that we only came away with a draw is a testiment of the progression we've made. The same applies for Brighton at home, QPR at home. A couple of years ago when we all thought we were the dogs bollocks in league one giving teams like Wycombe a beating Fulham were playing Atletico in the Europa Cup final. Yes their fortuntes have seen a drastic demise but the point stands. I think a lot of people are confusing progression with an unexpected jump up the leagues. We were all over them last season and should have won comfortably. Bunn missed a dobber and had a clear pen turned down. The team that is doing well now is different from the one that played against Brighton & QPR.
|
|