|
Post by Chips Longhorn on Oct 4, 2015 22:53:22 GMT 1
SM wasn't on my list for that reason. Would I put pato up front NOW for us? no
but I agree there is an argument to be had with a few but that still leaves a lot of undisputedly worst players on the list
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 22:59:06 GMT 1
Off the top of my head you've missed: Jon Newby Kiegan Parker Alex Dyer Nat Brown Alan Lee Scott McDonald Fola Onibuje So he's better than an irish international (who granted, was shit when he played for us but still did a better job of knocking defenders about) and an Aussie international that's played and scored in the champions league Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards I'm talking about how they did for us. Not too interested in what they did before or afterwards. In his time with us McDonald was worse than Miller - clearly he's gone on to have a better career once he left, but so what. Dave Unsworth was an ex-England international who was sold for close to £10m in his career. Doesn't alter the fact that he was utter garbage in a Town shirt. Lee did knock defenders about, invariably with his elbows, leaving us to play games with 10 men.
|
|
|
Miller?
Oct 4, 2015 23:45:25 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by wtd on Oct 4, 2015 23:45:25 GMT 1
ok from the top lucas akins lee Ashcroft terry Austin luke beckett danny carr mike cecere simon church terry eccles Nathan eccleston wayne goldthorpe roy greenwood chris hay gary haylock paul macari carl madrick peter Maguire john mcaliskey martin Paterson paul raynor Rodney rowe Robbie simpson kevin stonehouse craig whitington off the top of my head Off the top of my head you've missed: Jon Newby Kiegan Parker Alex Dyer Nat Brown Alan Lee Scott McDonald Fola Onibuje And for us older ones you've missed... Colin Garwood. Garbage.
|
|
|
Miller?
Oct 4, 2015 23:50:17 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Chips Longhorn on Oct 4, 2015 23:50:17 GMT 1
Bob Newton ? Terry eccles ? I was young
|
|
|
Post by Beech's Nuts on Oct 5, 2015 0:23:39 GMT 1
Off the top of my head you've missed: Jon Newby Kiegan Parker Alex Dyer Nat Brown Alan Lee Scott McDonald Fola Onibuje And for us older ones you've missed... Colin Garwood. Garbage. As an even older one, Brian Greenhalgh is a serious omission: 15 games 0 goals.
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Oct 5, 2015 6:15:04 GMT 1
So he's better than an irish international (who granted, was shit when he played for us but still did a better job of knocking defenders about) and an Aussie international that's played and scored in the champions league Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards I'm talking about how they did for us. Not too interested in what they did before or afterwards. In his time with us McDonald was worse than Miller - clearly he's gone on to have a better career once he left, but so what. Dave Unsworth was an ex-England international who was sold for close to £10m in his career. Doesn't alter the fact that he was utter garbage in a Town shirt. Lee did knock defenders about, invariably with his elbows, leaving us to play games with 10 men. Fair enough, if that's the rationale your using then Miller certainly deserves to join that list Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
|
|
lgm55
Juvenile Terrier
Posts: 22
|
Miller?
Oct 5, 2015 9:04:26 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by lgm55 on Oct 5, 2015 9:04:26 GMT 1
I still can't make my mind up on Big Ish ! Sometimes hold up play holding off defenders does really well , then against a little more quality he's a big moaner and appeals for almost anything . Im not saying not to appeal but you still need to concentrate on what he should be doing a striker his size - causing chaos charging his way through . He's a powerful lad and does well against the lesser side can someone show him videos of how Iffy Onuora used to play get in the box no matter how many men are clung onto you Not the greatest footballer to grace HTAFC but still made me smile with his determined attitude to at least get there
|
|
|
Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Oct 5, 2015 9:37:09 GMT 1
Being bloody minded I thought I’d do a bit of analysis of Miller’s wretchedness. So I’ve just watched the first half again. I counted that the ball was passed up to him or he got on the ball 28 times in the first half. Of these 19 touches were what you could call positive ie he did something good like won the ball in the air, passed to someone on our side, went on and had a shot – two weak efforts. The other nine were when he was either beaten in the air or the ball bounced off him. He didn’t actually misplace a pass. It was his nice pass that set up Carayol for the shot in the first few minutes. He committed 2 fouls that I could see. Not a bad half or contribution from him. I'm reluctant to watch and analyse the second half :-) Good lord, goodshot let's not get any facts or statistics into this. I'm not Miller's greatest fan - surely we've the money now to do much better - but he's nowhere near as bad as many are determined to make out. Like a poster has said he is inconsistent, but no more this season than Scannell,Bunn, Hogg, Davidson,smith, Wells, Lynch,Hudson and others this season and as far as I can see Carayol is actually inconsistent in each match (excellent for 15-20 minutes and then disappears). How on earth he's supposed to do well as a lone front man when invariably no Town player is ever within 20 yards of him, Bunn as ever having wandered off where he likes, I do not know.To be fair to him he keeps going for as long as most, and longer than many, in a match. A lot has been said about yesterday's inept and timid performance but anyone watching would not have thought that Wolves had had 3 matches in 9 days and we'd been resting - our fitness levels in terms of energy and stamina really are poor - most of the players who aren't blowing at 65 minutes are the ones that haven't had a pre-season with us or come from other teams eg Whitehead,Cranie etc You sum it up in a nutshell. I am not Millers greatest fan either, and i believe many might agre with your very fair comments.
|
|
|
Miller?
Oct 5, 2015 9:38:35 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by space hardware on Oct 5, 2015 9:38:35 GMT 1
Go on then, he's Houdouto-esque in his shitness Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards ok from the top lucas akins lee Ashcroft terry Austin luke beckett danny carr mike cecere simon church terry eccles Nathan eccleston wayne goldthorpe roy greenwood chris hay gary haylock paul macari carl madrick peter Maguire john mcaliskey martin Paterson paul raynor Rodney rowe Robbie simpson kevin stonehouse craig whitington off the top of my head That's a bit harsh on Luke Beckett - 29 goals in 85 games for us, according to Wikipedia.
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 5, 2015 9:47:23 GMT 1
Good lord, goodshot let's not get any facts or statistics into this. I'm not Miller's greatest fan - surely we've the money now to do much better - but he's nowhere near as bad as many are determined to make out. Like a poster has said he is inconsistent, but no more this season than Scannell,Bunn, Hogg, Davidson,smith, Wells, Lynch,Hudson and others this season and as far as I can see Carayol is actually inconsistent in each match (excellent for 15-20 minutes and then disappears). How on earth he's supposed to do well as a lone front man when invariably no Town player is ever within 20 yards of him, Bunn as ever having wandered off where he likes, I do not know.To be fair to him he keeps going for as long as most, and longer than many, in a match. A lot has been said about yesterday's inept and timid performance but anyone watching would not have thought that Wolves had had 3 matches in 9 days and we'd been resting - our fitness levels in terms of energy and stamina really are poor - most of the players who aren't blowing at 65 minutes are the ones that haven't had a pre-season with us or come from other teams eg Whitehead,Cranie etc You sum it up in a nutshell. I am not Millers greatest fan either, and i believe many might agre with your fair comments. still true that Miller isnt any different to the player we signed , hopefully fully aware of his shortcomings. He requires support quickly around him and he clearly isnt overly interested in chasing everything. He has neither the pace or the stamina to play a single striker role without almost constant support. We knew this when signing him, we knew it when he put in decent performances when he had good support and we still know it when he played on saturday with harry bunn often half a pitch away from him. when this team starts playing to its strengths from whistle one to the end of the game, whatever the score, we will see better performances from all in the shirt..
|
|
|
Miller?
Oct 5, 2015 10:04:00 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by Chips Longhorn on Oct 5, 2015 10:04:00 GMT 1
ok from the top lucas akins lee Ashcroft terry Austin luke beckett danny carr mike cecere simon church terry eccles Nathan eccleston wayne goldthorpe roy greenwood chris hay gary haylock paul macari carl madrick peter Maguire john mcaliskey martin Paterson paul raynor Rodney rowe Robbie simpson kevin stonehouse craig whitington off the top of my head That's a bit harsh on Luke Beckett - 29 goals in 85 games for us, according to Wikipedia. It's a long list space , there won't be unanimous agreement .. he was a bit crap though and in a league below
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 10:16:17 GMT 1
Miller can't be that bad. His 2015/16 goal tally is equalling that of the mighty Vaughan.
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Oct 5, 2015 10:31:10 GMT 1
Miller can't be that bad. His 2015/16 goal tally is equalling that of the mighty Vaughan. His goals/minutes played ratio is worse though ;D Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 11:16:46 GMT 1
Miller can't be that bad. His 2015/16 goal tally is equalling that of the mighty Vaughan. Only one behind Murray Wallace, who is on loan at Scunthorpe.
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Oct 5, 2015 14:22:19 GMT 1
If we're not going to use Vaughan then its time to give young Bojaj a go up front. He can't be any worse than Miller and his record at U18/21 level suggests he knows where the net is . Holmes' record at U21 level suggested he'd run defences ragged (scored again today V Crewe U21's), but he didn't, because he isn't good enough. The jury is out on Bojaj, of course, but he is, at the very least, due a chance.
|
|
|
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 5, 2015 15:19:48 GMT 1
If we're not going to use Vaughan then its time to give young Bojaj a go up front. He can't be any worse than Miller and his record at U18/21 level suggests he knows where the net is . Holmes' record at U21 level suggested he'd run defences ragged (scored again today V Crewe U21's), but he didn't, because he isn't good enough. The jury is out on Bojaj, of course, but he is, at the very least, due a chance. How can the jury be out when he hasn't yet had a chance to present the evidence? In regards to Miller he's offered little evidence and is currently in the process of being sentenced.
|
|
|
Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Oct 5, 2015 15:24:11 GMT 1
Holmes' record at U21 level suggested he'd run defences ragged (scored again today V Crewe U21's), but he didn't, because he isn't good enough. The jury is out on Bojaj, of course, but he is, at the very least, due a chance. How can the jury be out when he hasn't yet had a chance to present the evidence? In regards to Miller he's offered little evidence and is currently in the process of being sentenced. He was found guilty of being the man of the match in the eyes of the Charlton fans, and was given 3 very valuable points. Never right a player off as players like of Arfield will tell you.
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Oct 5, 2015 15:28:22 GMT 1
How can the jury be out when he hasn't yet had a chance to present the evidence? In regards to Miller he's offered little evidence and is currently in the process of being sentenced. He was found guilty of being the man of the match in the eyes of the Charlton fans, and was given 3 very valuable points. But not by the Town fans that were there apparently Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Oct 5, 2015 15:31:37 GMT 1
Holmes' record at U21 level suggested he'd run defences ragged (scored again today V Crewe U21's), but he didn't, because he isn't good enough. The jury is out on Bojaj, of course, but he is, at the very least, due a chance. How can the jury be out when he hasn't yet had a chance to present the evidence? In regards to Miller he's offered little evidence and is currently in the process of being sentenced. The jury can only be out as they only have evidence from his U21 perforamces to go on - let's wait until he has a few games under his belt, but you can bet that Powell & co will already have an opinion, and I'd back them over most (it not all) on here.
|
|
|
Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Oct 5, 2015 15:32:02 GMT 1
He was found guilty of being the man of the match in the eyes of the Charlton fans, and was given 3 very valuable points. But not by the Town fans that were there apparently Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards How can that be so when the media and Charlton fans said he played a blinder.
|
|
|
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 5, 2015 15:33:16 GMT 1
How can the jury be out when he hasn't yet had a chance to present the evidence? In regards to Miller he's offered little evidence and is currently in the process of being sentenced. He was found guilty of being the man of the match in the eyes of the Charlton fans, and was given 3 very valuable points. Never right a player off as players like of Arfield will tell you. With less than 40 career goals at the age of 28, I doubt his career will take off in the way Arfield's did.
|
|
|
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 5, 2015 15:35:59 GMT 1
But not by the Town fans that were there apparently Sent from my SM-G900F using proboards How can that be so when the media reported that he played a blinder. I had two friends who went. One said he was crap and the other said he was the reason we won. You can safely say he divides opinion. PS Most of the media barely seem to watch the game if their reports are anything to go by - and don't report matches as well as they used to.
|
|
|
Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Oct 5, 2015 15:41:10 GMT 1
He was found guilty of being the man of the match in the eyes of the Charlton fans, and was given 3 very valuable points. Never right a player off as players like of Arfield will tell you. With less than 40 career goals at the age of 28, I doubt his career will take off in the way Arfield's did. And they say that there is no such thing as a free breakfast. Shame Arfield could not show the same form at Huddersfield that we are seeing at Burnley.
|
|
|
Post by Essex Terrier on Oct 5, 2015 15:42:46 GMT 1
How can the jury be out when he hasn't yet had a chance to present the evidence? In regards to Miller he's offered little evidence and is currently in the process of being sentenced. He was found guilty of being the man of the match in the eyes of the Charlton fans, and was given 3 very valuable points. Never right a player off as players like of Arfield will tell you. OK - accepted Arfield did alright at Burnley and was not disgraced by any means in the Prem, but just how many players do we need to keep hold of on the basis that "we should never write them off" - Patterson who has been gracing the bench at Blackpool? Crooks, who has been tearing it up at......errrr.....Accrington, or Gobern (enough said there!)? Someone, somewhere has to make a decision about the "development" players or we get what we had when Powel came in - more bloody young players who don't have a prayer of making it, sucking their meagre salaries out of the club with no realistic prospect of ever getting a game (see Sinnott too!). Of course, some of us ( Frankiesleftpeg for example) would ditch every player over 21 and play the kids at every position for every game!
|
|
|
Post by Sugy , Paignton Devon Terrier on Oct 5, 2015 15:48:46 GMT 1
He was found guilty of being the man of the match in the eyes of the Charlton fans, and was given 3 very valuable points. Never right a player off as players like of Arfield will tell you. OK - accepted Arfield did alright at Burnley and was not disgraced by any means in the Prem, but just how many players do we need to keep hold of on the basis that "we should never write them off" - Patterson who has been gracing the bench at Blackpool? Crooks, who has been tearing it up at......errrr.....Accrington, or Gobern (enough said there!)? Someone, somewhere has to make a decision about the "development" players or we get what we had when Powel came in - more bloody young players who don't have a prayer of making it, sucking their meagre salaries out of the club with no realistic prospect of ever getting a game (see Sinnott too!). Of course, some of us ( Frankiesleftpeg for example) would ditch every player over 21 and play the kids at every position for every game! Experience from following the club over a long period of time tells me that you never know what to expect from town players from one week to another. One thing besides many that I have learnt in that time is to never right any player off.
|
|
|
Post by galpharm2400 on Oct 5, 2015 15:52:36 GMT 1
miller on his own or wells on his own..its a stark choice. neither seems capable without immediate support or them being a good favourite for each ball up to them..
as scannell has spent his time here getting virtually every ball fired at him with at least one defender up his arse maybe time to give him the deeper lying forward role??
just a thought..unless powell gets the midfield to support miller quickly and we try very hard not to punt long aimless stuff up there..
who knows there may be a way out without slating all the players or calling for new ones or the kids to be promoted?
|
|
|
Post by dalton knee-jerk on Oct 5, 2015 15:56:32 GMT 1
It's WRITE them off (Just before Pipes gets you)
|
|
|
Post by goodshot (FGS) on Oct 5, 2015 16:36:08 GMT 1
miller on his own or wells on his own..its a stark choice. neither seems capable without immediate support or them being a good favourite for each ball up to them.. as scannell has spent his time here getting virtually every ball fired at him with at least one defender up his arse maybe time to give him the deeper lying forward role?? just a thought..unless powell gets the midfield to support miller quickly and we try very hard not to punt long aimless stuff up there.. who knows there may be a way out without slating all the players or calling for new ones or the kids to be promoted? I'd say it's more like when you play with two wingers you have to play the ball through them and support them. We tried to do this to a limited extent with Carayol - but as you say with Scannell he was isolated much of the game. Cranie or the midfield spend little time supporting him or working his side of the pitch, whereas Davidson and Huws were at least trying to work with Carayol for periods of the game. Even then watching the replay the reason Carayol seems to disappear from the game - is simply that no one passed to him for long periods during the Wolves game! Suspect if anyone went back and watched the Forest game he probably disappeared from that for the same reason.
|
|
|
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Oct 5, 2015 16:49:25 GMT 1
He was found guilty of being the man of the match in the eyes of the Charlton fans, and was given 3 very valuable points. Never right a player off as players like of Arfield will tell you. OK - accepted Arfield did alright at Burnley and was not disgraced by any means in the Prem, but just how many players do we need to keep hold of on the basis that "we should never write them off" - Patterson who has been gracing the bench at Blackpool? Crooks, who has been tearing it up at......errrr.....Accrington, or Gobern (enough said there!)? Someone, somewhere has to make a decision about the "development" players or we get what we had when Powel came in - more bloody young players who don't have a prayer of making it, sucking their meagre salaries out of the club with no realistic prospect of ever getting a game (see Sinnott too!). Of course, some of us (Frankiesleftpeg for example) would ditch every player over 21 and play the kids at every position for every game! Nowt like a bit of an exaggeration to get your point across. Another point though is that none of our young players were deemed to be good enough by some on here only a few weeks ago only for Bojaj and Billing (he with the alleged bad attitude) suddenly to be part of the first team set up. The challenge now for Powell, particularly in the case of Bojaj, is to actually give him some game time. You never know he might let Miller into the secret of what that big stringy thing attached to two poles and a crossbar is for.
|
|
|
Post by yorkterrier on Oct 5, 2015 18:09:41 GMT 1
" comfortably embedded in the worst ever top 10 strikers to wear the blue and white shirt " ... Hahahahahahhahahahaha .. ever ? Teddy boy, my Mum bless her, likes tripe. I on the other hand think it's horrible. Who's right, mum or son? You see it's all about opinion isn't it and the fact that yours is different to mine doesn't (unless you're sat in front of a keyboard - where you seem to spend most of your day) make it fact.
|
|