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Post by waltzingthecowshed on Feb 4, 2016 20:46:15 GMT 1
The immaturity would be to continue banging ones head on the wall in trying to counter the ravings of a serial WUM who posted for the 138th time the same old deliberately antagonistic diatribe. What was it that Einstein said about repeating things over and over. The OP had a late night rant that I replied to in my, partially alcohol fuelled, two word style (maybe I should change from my King Rat to the weak White Rat of your sig) I awoke the day after expecting my post to have been deleted and maybe a small ban. The number of likes my post received doesn't give me any sense of pride but does show me that there is an overwhelming sense of frustration with terrierp***k, clappymarc**t and classic wums of that ilk. Aslo, what was it Steven Fry says about bad language. Nowt wrong with a bit of bad language when its warranted but I prefer the more measured approach on here. Stick with the King Rat, I had a few myself on Saturday night .It made a change from Scottish piss that I normally have to endure. Never rated Rat and Ratchett ale but its defo better than that Ossett brewery piss - Eastwood Nettlethrasher now thats a majestic ale....nearest thing to the 'old' John Eastwoods ales is the milltown brewery Black prince and Platinum Blonde up at the Dusty Longwood
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 20:49:46 GMT 1
Serious question, how did you cope for the ten years or so between Rubery throwing the money around and Hoyle coming in? If memory serves, we had one year where our only two permanent signings were Youds and Sharp, another where it was Mendes and Brandon, or Kamara as the main signing summer one year. Even the year with Ternant all the signings, bar Roberts, were hopeless. You seem to have got yourself so upset that we didn't make any signings this window, I'd hate to think how bad you must have been those years. Dissapointed beyond words. The marcus stewart sale was suicidal and we wre all deceived back then as rubberry proceeded to sell every saleable assett thereafter too. But the club marketed it as a great deal we got all this money for him and look we have replaced him with this guy whose good at penalties . We could have stayed up.Then in League 1 we could have stayed up if only we had kept winjard. He comes back from long almost self inflicted injury scores a winner or equaliser, i remember celebrating like mad and then is sold. His goals would have kept us up. Then the good times and Jacko a team that cost nothing that should have gone up automatically but gambled vy selling Stead and got away with it as Abbott proved a great replacement. I was at Port vale away a bogey team for us when he scored a hat trick. Yes we had nowt, zilch back then, we promoted our own and hoped theyd be good enough...young guns and all that and brought our Talisman Boothy back. We nearly get promoted then the bubble bursts and we struggle with rich t and his lack of excitement in demeanour to anything unless its leeds utd related. You only had to listen to him on the radio talking about Town then listen to him on about leeds, made my blood boil. So yeah mostly dark days and bad decisions after bad decisions that i am sure most of you would have probably defended . So am i thankful to DH for plowing money in and finally getting us back in the championship. Bottom line Yes i am but i would rather he had not let LC and his bingo ball machine wate his money to the point that having finally got promoted he DH changed his stance and put the breaks on. Because like it or lump it thats what happened... all the big i am , billboards pr overdrive, loans arranged if a player sneezes , i though brilliant this man means business he will leave nothing to chance in gaining that promotion and then all of a sudden it all changed. The momentum we had so important in football had long gone as Grayson saw us limp over the line and it was not the right time IMO if i am allowed one to pull that plug and annnounce self sustainability. Because we havent achieved it after what three or four years now because to truly do so we need pushing 20k fans in the stadium . One day there might not be a saleable assett in the team what do we do then? What will DH do then? You're getting yourself in a muddle now. Criticising on the one hand too many signings under LC and now too little. Saying he put the breaks on under Grayson, when we spent a lot that summer in terms of fees and especially in wages (Grayson's record in the transfer market was good, too). You accuse DH of trying to make us self sustainable, yet losses have been far higher in the Championship than when we signing players for fun in L1. It's the wages thing again, you see. Personally, this is why I find your posts so infuriating, and even more so Marcus', you get yourself so riled up about so something you actually appear quite ill informed about. Your memory is also a bit confused. Wijnhard (who was totally finished at that point) was let go the year we made the play off, not the year we went down. We got better after we sold Stead, not worse, we were not that close to automatic promotion when he left. Abbott got his hat trick at Vale Park the year after we got promoted. Booth came back when we still in the Championship. Clearly selling Stewart was a disaster. I assume you mean Smith was the replacement (don't remember him taking penalties, to be honest), an excellent player, but massively injury prone.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Feb 4, 2016 20:51:59 GMT 1
Nowt wrong with a bit of bad language when its warranted but I prefer the more measured approach on here. Stick with the King Rat, I had a few myself on Saturday night .It made a change from Scottish piss that I normally have to endure. Never rated Rat and Ratchett ale but its defo better than that Ossett brewery piss - Eastwood Nettlethrasher now thats a majestic ale....nearest thing to the 'old' John Eastwoods ales is the milltown brewery Black prince and Platinum Blonde up at the Dusty Longwood Rat ales are definitely better than Ossett's although there was a nice fruity Ossett ale named South Pacific IPA on Saturday. Each to their own with regards to taste but I'd say that Saltaire Cascade is right up there at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 20:57:15 GMT 1
To carry on the debate, Parky, here are the losses since DH came in. I'm really keen to hear how this is pulling the plug or going for self sustainability:
2014 (Robins full season) £7m 2013 (first season in Championship) £8.8m 2012 (promotion season) £6.2m 2011 (losing to P'boro in the final) £3m 2010 (losing to Millwall in the semis) £2.7m 2009 (Ternant/Clark season) £4m
You can work out for yourself how much bigger these would have been without the player sales.
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Post by terrierpark on Feb 4, 2016 20:59:02 GMT 1
I dont care how many likes my post has got or the foul mouthed insults. I gave my opinion after been told by so many wait until the window is over then judge but thats been conveniently forgotten, and i did wait. Do you remember that line from a Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise flm " You cant handle the truth" The over the tip reaction to my post by some just gives IMO more credence to it as they fail to debate the points. I am fully aware that DH can do no wrong you have made it perfectly clear. He can not be questioned how he does things because it will always be the right way, and i should after 37 years sod off and go support a team who chucks money at everything because i have an opinion different to yours. I now genuinely believe that many of you are beyond help and far far too many of you rely on alcohol to see you through your continuing support. I would have hoped that even though you might not like my tone and rhetoric you might just have read things that made you stop and think. But those that do are derided just the same . So woe betide anyone to bang on about what they feel is right and wrong. I truly pity some of you The only 'pity' around here I think is now your own self pity....so you haven't been bought any new toys to consume the next time you go to 'support' the club...get over yourself. For the record this is my 50th year supporting the club and what it brings is not some facile 'happy clapper' mentality but a reasoned sense of perspective something fella that you're sadly missing. David Wagner clearly set out his reasons for no big money signings - something you ve conveniently chosen to ignore or maybe you think he's lying and you're questioning his integrity - which is it? DW said he had a considerable amount to spend. I believed him. He also said he would only spend it, if it was for the benefit of the team long term, which i found a bit odd as proper signings are always surely made with the long term view are they not? Perhaps what he meant to say and i would have been delighted to hear him say are if we sign a player it is the start of my team building for the long term. He also said he would treat the money as his own and with that dropped the first clue that we were not prepared to spend big. Normally an admirable stance, but it depends on your viewpoint doesnt it? If we were going to spend big on additions to an already well covered position for example Wingers or attackers it would make sense, Wagner told us we had plenty of them when the lad joined weeds , but the need to spend was there as many on here, in fact the consensus of opinion was that a striker and ctre back was badly needed. DW doesnt obviously think so or does he? Our unconventional way of play sees widemen or attackers as they are now known cut in far more, but it is laughable we sign matmour and elvis after been told we had plenty of their type. DH will have given DW x amount to get his targets that i am sure the club will have known were free in the summer, we didnt want to pay the price for buy it now so we will try again in the summer when lots more will join the bidding and thats a fact. Our targets remain unnamed so we will never truly know if we get them or not. So for the rest of the season we soldier on with the cullinder defence that adds increasing pressure to the strikeforce. So lets hope Elvis knows where the onion bag is and if he doesnt lets hope the tantalising form we got can continue to as least give some of the big boys a game. But i will not pretend that all is well and good , we are not safe by a long chalk and the summer shopping list is very big and the x amount DW had this window IMO wont cover it.
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Post by terrierpark on Feb 4, 2016 21:05:23 GMT 1
Dissapointed beyond words. The marcus stewart sale was suicidal and we wre all deceived back then as rubberry proceeded to sell every saleable assett thereafter too. But the club marketed it as a great deal we got all this money for him and look we have replaced him with this guy whose good at penalties . We could have stayed up.Then in League 1 we could have stayed up if only we had kept winjard. He comes back from long almost self inflicted injury scores a winner or equaliser, i remember celebrating like mad and then is sold. His goals would have kept us up. Then the good times and Jacko a team that cost nothing that should have gone up automatically but gambled vy selling Stead and got away with it as Abbott proved a great replacement. I was at Port vale away a bogey team for us when he scored a hat trick. Yes we had nowt, zilch back then, we promoted our own and hoped theyd be good enough...young guns and all that and brought our Talisman Boothy back. We nearly get promoted then the bubble bursts and we struggle with rich t and his lack of excitement in demeanour to anything unless its leeds utd related. You only had to listen to him on the radio talking about Town then listen to him on about leeds, made my blood boil. So yeah mostly dark days and bad decisions after bad decisions that i am sure most of you would have probably defended . So am i thankful to DH for plowing money in and finally getting us back in the championship. Bottom line Yes i am but i would rather he had not let LC and his bingo ball machine wate his money to the point that having finally got promoted he DH changed his stance and put the breaks on. Because like it or lump it thats what happened... all the big i am , billboards pr overdrive, loans arranged if a player sneezes , i though brilliant this man means business he will leave nothing to chance in gaining that promotion and then all of a sudden it all changed. The momentum we had so important in football had long gone as Grayson saw us limp over the line and it was not the right time IMO if i am allowed one to pull that plug and annnounce self sustainability. Because we havent achieved it after what three or four years now because to truly do so we need pushing 20k fans in the stadium . One day there might not be a saleable assett in the team what do we do then? What will DH do then? You're getting yourself in a muddle now. Criticising on the one hand too many signings under LC and now too little. Saying he put the breaks on under Grayson, when we spent a lot that summer in terms of fees and especially in wages (Grayson's record in the transfer market was good, too). You accuse DH of trying to make us self sustainable, yet losses have been far higher in the Championship than when we signing players for fun in L1. It's the wages thing again, you see. Personally, this is why I find your posts so infuriating, and even more so Marcus', you get yourself so riled up about so something you actually appear quite ill informed about. Your memory is also a bit confused. Wijnhard (who was totally finished at that point) was let go the year we made the play off, not the year we went down. We got better after we sold Stead, not worse, we were not that close to automatic promotion when he left. Abbott got his hat trick at Vale Park the year after we got promoted. Booth came back when we still in the Championship. Clearly selling Stewart was a disaster. I assume you mean Smith was the replacement (don't remember him taking penalties, to be honest), an excellent player, but massively injury prone. Smith was touted by that scouse git as a goal scorer but 90% of them had been penalties not in open play. Thanks for reorganising my time line on the memories though lol
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Post by terrierpark on Feb 4, 2016 21:08:20 GMT 1
To carry on the debate, Parky, here are the losses since DH came in. I'm really keen to hear how this is pulling the plug or going for self sustainability: 2014 (Robins full season) £7m 2013 (first season in Championship) £8.8m 2012 (promotion season) £6.2m 2011 (losing to P'boro in the final) £3m 2010 (losing to Millwall in the semis) £2.7m 2009 (Ternant/Clark season) £4m You can work out for yourself how much bigger these would have been without the player sales. What/who was responsible for the 3.2 million increase in loss from 2011 to 2012? Are you not supposed to make considerable money after a play off final?
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Post by 3Pipe on Feb 4, 2016 21:10:54 GMT 1
I haven't drank alcohol since July. Not a problem.
All you need is logic and reason to see you through.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 21:18:54 GMT 1
To carry on the debate, Parky, here are the losses since DH came in. I'm really keen to hear how this is pulling the plug or going for self sustainability: 2014 (Robins full season) £7m 2013 (first season in Championship) £8.8m 2012 (promotion season) £6.2m 2011 (losing to P'boro in the final) £3m 2010 (losing to Millwall in the semis) £2.7m 2009 (Ternant/Clark season) £4m You can work out for yourself how much bigger these would have been without the player sales. What/who was responsible for the 3.2 million increase in loss from 2011 to 2012? Are you not supposed to make considerable money after a play off final? The wage bill went up £2.5m, plus fees paid for the likes of Ward, Robinson and Gobern. The season after our losses would have been even bigger were in not for the sale of Rhodes, as we brought in at least Clayton, Scannell, Norwood, Lynch, Gerrard, Vaughan, Beckford, Dixon, Southern. They were all commanding big wages, much bigger than we'd have paid before. I ask again, how can you say DH pulled the plug/insisted we were self sustainable after we got promoted, he's been putting more in since then, without the player sales we would have been above the FFP limit. Your argument holds no water.
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Post by terrierpark on Feb 4, 2016 21:23:25 GMT 1
To carry on the debate, Parky, here are the losses since DH came in. I'm really keen to hear how this is pulling the plug or going for self sustainability: 2014 (Robins full season) £7m 2013 (first season in Championship) £8.8m 2012 (promotion season) £6.2m 2011 (losing to P'boro in the final) £3m 2010 (losing to Millwall in the semis) £2.7m 2009 (Ternant/Clark season) £4m You can work out for yourself how much bigger these would have been without the player sales. Its such a shame that players are paid an obscene amount even the average ones. The player sales of our better players ie the quality ones you would think help reduce the wage bill as a big earner is removed. As for self sustainability i didnt coin the phrase it came from the club and DH as he announced his new direction in jan 2013. It may surprise you but i have not seen the figures the way you have presented them. All i hear is people bang on about how much he pays /month. I should imagine the figures for 2015 are a hell of alot better though following the large clear out last season and the sales this summer. Paying off managers cant have come cheap either.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 21:27:19 GMT 1
To carry on the debate, Parky, here are the losses since DH came in. I'm really keen to hear how this is pulling the plug or going for self sustainability: 2014 (Robins full season) £7m 2013 (first season in Championship) £8.8m 2012 (promotion season) £6.2m 2011 (losing to P'boro in the final) £3m 2010 (losing to Millwall in the semis) £2.7m 2009 (Ternant/Clark season) £4m You can work out for yourself how much bigger these would have been without the player sales. Its such a shame that players are paid an obscene amount even the average ones. The player sales of our better players ie the quality ones you would think help reduce the wage bill as a big earner is removed. As for self sustainability i didnt coin the phrase it came from the club and DH as he announced his new direction in jan 2013. It may surprise you but i have not seen the figures the way you have presented them. All i hear is people bang on about how much he pays /month. I should imagine the figures for 2015 are a hell of alot better though following the large clear out last season and the sales this summer. Paying off managers cant have come cheap either. Finally, something we can agree on! 2015 figures won't include the sales this summer, but, yes, they should be an improvement on previous years after we managed to cull a load of crap in Jan.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Feb 4, 2016 21:34:05 GMT 1
I haven't drank alcohol since July. Not a problem. All you need is logic and reason to see you through. For the sake of my waistline I'm having a month off it, but 5 days in and I know its going to be a long month.
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Post by 3Pipe on Feb 4, 2016 21:38:23 GMT 1
If you get pangs, have a tonic water with fresh lime juice in it and pretend it's a G&T. Worked for me but I have to say pangs are not really a problem.
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Post by terrierpark on Feb 4, 2016 21:40:11 GMT 1
Its such a shame that players are paid an obscene amount even the average ones. The player sales of our better players ie the quality ones you would think help reduce the wage bill as a big earner is removed. As for self sustainability i didnt coin the phrase it came from the club and DH as he announced his new direction in jan 2013. It may surprise you but i have not seen the figures the way you have presented them. All i hear is people bang on about how much he pays /month. I should imagine the figures for 2015 are a hell of alot better though following the large clear out last season and the sales this summer. Paying off managers cant have come cheap either. Finally, something we can agree on! 2015 figures won't include the sales this summer, but, yes, they should be an improvement on previous years after we managed to cull a load of crap in Jan. So yes i get it , i always have so how do we square the circle? Go down different paths to the traditional methods yes agreed . Wagner..love him hence why i changed from library area of ground to singing section. It just grinds me and rubs me the wrong way when, (and leave the damn figures out of it) because we go to the ground to watch the footy not peruse the accounts, and see where we need to strenghen and fail to do so in 3 consecutive windows. I took DH's words after the sale of Smithies as a promise, not a see how we go but thats what we will have to do now wont we . Get behind them and hope we have better reffs and better luck. But if god forbid it does go to shit who will you blame ? DW for not feeling we needed an actual striker not a an attacker and a quality ctre back or Hoyle for not paying the going rate?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 21:51:33 GMT 1
I think we'd all agree we need a few players in if we're to progress and, yeah, I was a bit disappointed we didn't bring anyone in in Jan. However, I want us to get the right ones, if that means waiting till the summer, so be it. As you say, we've to do things differently to the likes of Derby and Boro and that requires a bit more patience, unfortunately.
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 4, 2016 21:52:51 GMT 1
2008- don't own stadium, don't own training facilities, which aren't worth owning anyway. Stuck in mid table league 1 , with 2 recent gates of only 6000 and an entire squad who would eventually be sold for the combined total of £45k ( james berrett) .
........Skip forward 8 seasons of finishing in a better place than the previous season........and something like £30-40 million of personal investment from the owner...........
2016- Own 40% of stadium and 100% of state of art training facility. Middling Championship club with highly rated german manager who is over-seeing an exciting improvement in play and has a lot of money to spend on players HE WANTS in the summer but won't piss it away on players he doesn't want just to shut a few tantrum merchants up and much more affordable ticket prices on the way. We deal in players by the £million and even after selling 3 main assetts in the summer, still have a squad worth many millions.
You can appreciate that and enjoy it, or you can twist and invent and mis-understand and moan and whinge and find any way you can to constantly slag the club and Hoyle off like some kind of tragic anti-fan. Personally , ill just enjoy it... mainly because my memory goes back to before Dean Hoyle took over this club and a time when everyone with HTFC at heart would have dreamed of being the club we are now.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DEAN HOYLE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Post by gledholt terrier on Feb 4, 2016 22:15:05 GMT 1
2008- don't own stadium, don't own training facilities, which aren't worth owning anyway. Stuck in mid table league 1 , with 2 recent gates of only 6000 and an entire squad who would eventually be sold for the combined total of £45k ( james berrett) . ........Skip forward 8 seasons of finishing in a better place than the previous season........and something like £30-40 million of personal investment from the owner........... 2016- Own 40% of stadium and 100% of state of art training facility. Middling Championship club with highly rated german manager who is over-seeing an exciting improvement in play and has a lot of money to spend on players HE WANTS in the summer but won't piss it away on players he doesn't want just to shut a few tantrum merchants up and much more affordable ticket prices on the way. We deal in players by the £million and even after selling 3 main assetts in the summer, still have a squad worth many millions. You can appreciate that and enjoy it, or you can twist and invent and mis-understand and moan and whinge and find any way you can to constantly slag the club and Hoyle off like some kind of tragic anti-fan. Personally , ill just enjoy it... mainly because my memory goes back to before Dean Hoyle took over this club and a time when everyone with HTFC at heart would have dreamed of being the club we are now. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO DEAN HOYLE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Exactly. In fact, you could argue that the only thing which hasn't changed for the significant better is the quality/quantity of the fan base. NSL has done a lot to try to change that and their efforts are more than admirable (as are the groups like Southern Terriers and, lately, East Midlands).
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Post by 3Pipe on Feb 4, 2016 22:17:55 GMT 1
Slapps with the slamdown. Nailed it.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Feb 4, 2016 22:24:12 GMT 1
Slapps with the slamdown. Nailed it. Totally .. it will get more likes than terrierpark has managed in 3000 posts
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zoso
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Post by zoso on Feb 4, 2016 22:26:25 GMT 1
I haven't drank alcohol since July. Not a problem. All you need is logic and reason to see you through. Fair play to you pipes, well done. Just started my 6th year "on the wagon" still miss it though Utt.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Feb 4, 2016 22:27:27 GMT 1
I hardly ever drink anymore.. it hasn't bothered me one bit
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Post by galpharm2400 on Feb 4, 2016 22:30:10 GMT 1
I think we'd all agree we need a few players in if we're to progress and, yeah, I was a bit disappointed we didn't bring anyone in in Jan. However, I want us to get the right ones, if that means waiting till the summer, so be it. As you say, we've to do things differently to the likes of Derby and Boro and that requires a bit more patience, unfortunately. 'I want us to get the right ones'? honestly, I think we tried and couldnt afford the right ones... hence the two loans to bolster the numbers.. Waiting till summer means frees, if we want em so will others, we will be outbid instead of being out priced.. If we cant get the right ones in summer do we go down the route of bringing 4/5 in just to be makeweights?? At some point we have to compete..or we can keep putting it off and seeing how far he can get on what we have and a few chucked at the squad for good measure.. Its not clever or astute management, its business and our finances..
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Post by 3Pipe on Feb 4, 2016 22:32:01 GMT 1
Totally .. it will get more likes than terrierpark has managed in 3000 posts But apparently we're just a big alcoholic clique.
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Post by 3Pipe on Feb 4, 2016 22:35:39 GMT 1
I haven't drank alcohol since July. Not a problem. All you need is logic and reason to see you through. Fair play to you pipes, well done. Just started my 6th year "on the wagon" still miss it though Utt. Thanks mate. I did it to cut down on sugar and maybe save a bob or two. My problem now is we're going on holiday to Spain in 6 weeks and meeting up with old friends. Hmmm crap, do I stick or twist? Already been talk about drink, in fact I've been nominated for first round. The fkn irony of it.
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zoso
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by zoso on Feb 4, 2016 23:00:13 GMT 1
I hardly ever drink anymore.. it hasn't bothered me one bit I think it's just getting out of the habbit. Play off final at old Trafford was a toughie...before & especially after the game! Utt.
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Post by 3Pipe on Feb 4, 2016 23:03:25 GMT 1
Took me 2 weeks to get over Old Trafford and I was still drinking in those days!
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zoso
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by zoso on Feb 4, 2016 23:04:22 GMT 1
Fair play to you pipes, well done. Just started my 6th year "on the wagon" still miss it though Utt. Thanks mate. I did it to cut down on sugar and maybe save a bob or two. My problem now is we're going on holiday to Spain in 6 weeks and meeting up with old friends. Hmmm crap, do I stick or twist? Already been talk about drink, in fact I've been nominated for first round. The fkn irony of it. Ouch that's a bad one....stick to the sparkling water though, you'll get the piss taken out of you.....but that's what friends are for Utt.
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Feb 4, 2016 23:07:16 GMT 1
I hardly ever drink anymore.. it hasn't bothered me one bit I think it's just getting out of the habbit. Play off final at old Trafford was a toughie...before & especially after the game! Utt. As you say .. Habit .. Same as crap food , gambling etc ..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2016 23:11:36 GMT 1
You know, if you removed all the posts which are purely personal insults and nothing to do with the topic, there wouldn't be a lot left to your contribution to this forum.
The same goes with many others on here. Try having an opinion or a debate, rather than insults because you don't agree. You don't have to be Einstein to debate, it only taxes a couple more brain cells than jumping on the bandwagon of insults and vitriol.
I see. So you insinuate someone isn't very bright, I pick you up on the laboured nature of your witticism, and I'm the one doing the insulting? If that's the quality and precision of your 'debating', then I'll give it a miss, thanks. Stick to Panto's, you're not bright enough for much else.
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zoso
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by zoso on Feb 4, 2016 23:11:42 GMT 1
I think it's just getting out of the habbit. Play off final at old Trafford was a toughie...before & especially after the game! Utt. As you say .. Habit .. Same as crap food , gambling etc .. Not to mention watching Town....
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