yanfan
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 802
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Post by yanfan on Feb 7, 2016 12:45:39 GMT 1
Our defence is garbage.Until someone wakes up and decides to do something about it we will lose lots of games.Yesterday Wagner blamed missed chances and he also said that we lost at Brighton because we were tired.This stemmed from the Reading replay.The replay was because we shipped two goals at home to Reading.I have said this on other posts but I'll repeat it on here.In the four games on the bounce that we have lost we have shipped 12 goals.That is shite defending.We have scored 6 goals which should have brought us points but we got zilch because we are crap at defending.It is not bad refereeing,it is not bad luck,it is not because we are not taking all our chances---it is because our defending is shite!We look fragile every time a ball is crossed into our area.Other teams know this and are prepared to let us press and huff and puff knowing that they will get their chances on the counter.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 12:49:40 GMT 1
We need 5 quality additions through the spine of the team plus a left back. Keeper- hopefully steer, a centre back, a centre mid (I'd like Huws) & a striker with more physical presence who can lead the line and actually finish, (similar to JV when he signed)
With this we could challenge the top 8.
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sudbury
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by sudbury on Feb 7, 2016 12:50:49 GMT 1
Surely, a fool can see that defending is the problem. If you allow a team like Preston to score 2 goals towards the end of the game when they've been outplayed for much of the time, there is something drastically wrong with our defending. Study the teams in the Championship which have a better defensive record than us and ask why this is - then, should we be able to solve the problem?
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Post by wtd on Feb 7, 2016 12:51:45 GMT 1
We do need a second striker but I agree with the post and our defence. If Wells gets injured then what natural goalscorer would we play up front? We haven't got one. We need to spend decent money this summer. When you look back to the last time we were doing well in the championship we had spent some decent money on defenders. Craig Armstrong £500k Chris Lucketti £750k Andy Morrison £500k These were prices from 10 years ago too... So I'm thinking we've got £5m to spend in the summer after Butterfield £4m upfront, Smithies £1.25m upfront plus a few add ons from Rhodes (not sure we've had last £2m instalment either) New CB/Captain £750k New CB £500k New LB £500k New CM £500k New Striker £2.5mFictitious prices for fictitious players... have we gone mad?!!!
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Post by 007Berlin on Feb 7, 2016 12:59:48 GMT 1
We do need a second striker but I agree with the post and our defence. If Wells gets injured then what natural goalscorer would we play up front? We haven't got one. We need to spend decent money this summer. When you look back to the last time we were doing well in the championship we had spent some decent money on defenders. Craig Armstrong £500k Chris Lucketti £750k Andy Morrison £500k These were prices from 10 years ago too... So I'm thinking we've got £5m to spend in the summer after Butterfield £4m upfront, Smithies £1.25m upfront plus a few add ons from Rhodes (not sure we've had last £2m instalment either) New CB/Captain £750k New CB £500k New LB £500k New CM £500k New Striker £2.5mFictitious prices for fictitious players... have we gone mad?!!! Seems perfectly reasonable to me? It's a rough indication of how much to spend, surely that's how it works. DH says to Webber you have £500k for. Left back. Good post IMO
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Post by impact on Feb 7, 2016 13:01:34 GMT 1
I said this on another thread but having a striker to throw on is a pretty good defensive move. It stops the opposition defenders getting as far forward as they have fresh legs to worry about and also gives you a better presser up field.
There's also just the simple equation of numbers. I like Nahki, and have made no secret of it, but sometimes just switching personnel due to tiredness/having a bad game is needed.
You can't go a season with 1 proper striker, even if you're playing 1 up front and no matter how good he is. I always look at that united team of 99 - Cole and Yorke scored over 50 goals between them, yet they still had Tedyy and Ole on the bench - the latter scoring that famous injury time goal.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Feb 7, 2016 13:04:03 GMT 1
Fictitious prices for fictitious players... have we gone mad?!!! Seems perfectly reasonable to me? It's a rough indication of how much to spend, surely that's how it works. DH says to Webber you have £500k for. Left back. Good post IMO Completely ignores wages. All fees are relative - a player out of contract costs "nothing".
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Post by muckyfat on Feb 7, 2016 13:04:16 GMT 1
I think it's full backs where we got the least quality,spurs play similar system to us& there fullbacks make the whole thing tick,it's all about quality of final ball,for years I've called it the english disease fullback hitting cross into first defender then opposition break on you.do we have players here now who could step in as fullbacks? Hamill did OK with it under robins. Dempsey could be worth persevering with? Always think while watching Germany they must work much more on quality of the cross. UTT
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Post by galpharm2400 on Feb 7, 2016 13:09:07 GMT 1
we scored and then retreated and ended up defending deep and conceding.. we dropped again for no good reason and conceded a header from 6 yards.. this might be the cause of our defensive woes.. ? the second goal yesterday..we were standing in a line on our 6 yard box with the opposition long before the cross actually come is??? its bordering on suicidal..
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sudbury
Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
Posts: 1,437
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Post by sudbury on Feb 7, 2016 13:20:04 GMT 1
A fool can see that the defending let us down. Look at the teams in the Championship with better defensive records and that should tell us what we require. If we allow a team like Preston to score two towards the end of the game when they've been outplayed for much of the time, there is obviously something drastically wrong.
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Post by H7 on Feb 7, 2016 13:31:09 GMT 1
This has been covered earlier in the thread. Everyone knows of course we need to strengthen options up front and I've no doubt we will. The point is if you're the leagues 6th highest scorers but sitting in 17th the overall issue lies with your defence. Sorry, haven't had time to read everything earlier. But didn't you state above "we do not need another striker, far from it"..? This sounds a bit contradictory to what your saying now. Unless you changed your mind and I missed that as well, (how embarrassing for me) Strengthening the defence and forward options are not mutually exclusive, we need to do both. Well on current evidence no we do not need another striker, we are creating lots of chances and scoring lots of goals. We have options on the bench now to bring Nahki off, only time will tell if this is good enough back up. But as I've said it would be nice to, and I'm sure we will bring in another striker in the summer. There is no point in saying well what if this and what if that. What if Hiwula is 2x as good a finisher as Nahki? Just as plausible an argument as what if Nahki got injured. Topic purely created based on current stats from this season, where it clearly shows our defence is the main issue and needs to be addressed properly in summer as a priority.
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Post by Alfie on Feb 7, 2016 14:01:44 GMT 1
We need 2!
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Feb 7, 2016 14:06:15 GMT 1
Well, then, I think that a lot on here are going to be very disappointed because, as I posted earlier, Wagner CLEARLY views this as an ATTACKING problem, not defensive, so I wouldn't expect any major defensive changes any time soon. All those declaring "a fool can see ..." obviously don't realise that this must include the manager. Just the way I read it.
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Post by wtd on Feb 7, 2016 14:30:14 GMT 1
Fictitious prices for fictitious players... have we gone mad?!!! Seems perfectly reasonable to me? It's a rough indication of how much to spend, surely that's how it works. DH says to Webber you have £500k for. Left back. Good post IMO Really? Your striker might cost nothing and your full-back a million... depends where you're getting them from and if they maybe out of contract, plus wages etc (see gleholts post above). Impossible to put a price on them at this stage.
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Feb 7, 2016 14:54:24 GMT 1
Well, then, I think that a lot on here are going to be very disappointed because, as I posted earlier, Wagner CLEARLY views this as an ATTACKING problem, not defensive, so I wouldn't expect any major defensive changes any time soon. All those declaring "a fool can see ..." obviously don't realise that this must include the manager. Just the way I read it. If he can't see it then he is a fool. As good as the football's been and the number of games where we dominate possession, the blindingly obvious failing is our inability to defend. Most successful teams have a solid defence and its an absolute must that we strength it in the summer, otherwise we'll be going nowhere. Hopefully Wagner knows this too.
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Post by captainblack on Feb 7, 2016 15:08:06 GMT 1
Well, then, I think that a lot on here are going to be very disappointed because, as I posted earlier, Wagner CLEARLY views this as an ATTACKING problem, not defensive, so I wouldn't expect any major defensive changes any time soon. All those declaring "a fool can see ..." obviously don't realise that this must include the manager. Just the way I read it. Lets wait and see what happens in the summer MT I would be very surprised if we do not strengthen the defence . It is not just this season we have looked vulnerable, in fact I would say its been our achilles heel since we got promoted from div 3 . If we do not address the problems in defence we are never likely to progress. I have to admit I did not attend yesterdays game and am going what I have read on the forum. DW may not be a fool MT but just playing his cards close to his chest . I would not want DW to reveal any changes to the defence he may be planning at this stage of the campaign . Lets be honest the revelation that Vaughan would not be wanted when his contract expired half way through the season was a bit of a gaff in my opinion.
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Post by Bassingham Terrier on Feb 7, 2016 15:22:36 GMT 1
Ah, but I wasn't talking about defensive additions IN SUMMER; I think that we all EXPECT that to happen, especially with the likelihood that Hudson will be moving on. No, I'm talking about when the loan window opens.
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yanfan
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 802
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Post by yanfan on Feb 7, 2016 15:23:14 GMT 1
If you are shipping an average of 3 goals per game which we have during our past four games then the defending needs sorting.If not you are relying on your strike force to get 4 goals per game.Wagner for some reason will not admit that our defending is poor.Therefore like an alcoholic who won't admit to a drink problem there will be no cure until he finally tells himself the truth.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Feb 7, 2016 15:25:47 GMT 1
We need another centre back A new good left back A top striker and another midfielder imo E have the funds. Lets hope we get them in summer
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 15:30:00 GMT 1
Might be a load of bollocks but there was a post on another thread the other day that we have already agreed deals with two foreign centre backs. Can't remember which thread it was or their names
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Feb 7, 2016 15:32:36 GMT 1
Ah, but I wasn't talking about defensive additions IN SUMMER; I think that we all EXPECT that to happen, especially with the likelihood that Hudson will be moving on. No, I'm talking about when the loan window opens. I'd like to think that we would bring in a loan central defender as well but I have my doubts. We may be banking on doing just enough to stay up again whilst his targets become available, but its a dangerous game to play. I'll judge Wagner when he's had a the summer to sort the defence out and hopefully then he'll realise his full potential.
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Post by Horny Horne on Feb 7, 2016 15:36:45 GMT 1
Seems perfectly reasonable to me? It's a rough indication of how much to spend, surely that's how it works. DH says to Webber you have £500k for. Left back. Good post IMO Completely ignores wages. All fees are relative - a player out of contract costs "nothing". Completely ignores Smithies wage (second top earner) Completely ignores Butterfields wage. Completely ignores not paying Vaughans wage. £30k a week minimum for those 3 surely...
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Post by ACW on Feb 7, 2016 15:37:04 GMT 1
I don't think it's an either or situation. Ideally we need to strengthen at both ends of the pitch. At the moment Wells is doing great, and we do have goals in other areas of the team, but I do worry we rely too much on Nahki and I'm not convinced by the back up options. We do have options up front, and they deserve a chance to prove themselves, but I would like to see another striker brought in. I'd also like to see better fullbacks as in our system alot of the wide play comes from them and our final ball is often poor.
The defence is obviously a problem. Whatever Wagner says he will know this. He is an offesively-minded coach so will tend to focus on our attack, but I'm sure he's well aware of our defensive problems. Our fullbacks often push high up the pitch so we need to find better ways of covering them when we lose the ball and they are caught up the pitch. We also need to strengthen central defence as we are vulnerable to high balls and we often lose our men even when we have numbers back.
Given the choice, I would prioritise defence over attack because it needs strengthening now. The attacking options lack depth and cover, but it is doing ok at the moment. More attacking options are needed moving forward, but there's no doubt the defence isn't up to it now. Wagner will have to decide where to strengthen, but I feel he needs to look at the fullbacks and try to sign another centre half as a priority. If we can do that we will give ourselves a chance in games because we do create chances. There's no magic wand, and Hoyle doesn't have bottomless pockets. It'll be an interesting summer but I have faith in the manager.
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Post by gledholt terrier on Feb 7, 2016 15:40:22 GMT 1
Completely ignores wages. All fees are relative - a player out of contract costs "nothing". Completely ignores Smithies wage (second top earner) Completely ignores Butterfields wage. Completely ignores not paying Vaughans wage. £30k a week minimum for those 3 surely... Not saying we can't afford them (though I don't know) - it was pointing out that listing transfer fees is pointless.
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Post by terrierpark on Feb 7, 2016 16:13:12 GMT 1
Dont you know there on all free transfers in the summer? Why pay money now ...see captain satisfied and his cronies ramblings The strikers The ctre backs The full backs ...............ALL FREE YIPEE!!!!!!!
Why address the needs of the team now,when said team dominates possession but consistently throws games by a beautiful combination of missed chances and slack set up defending?
Do you know why we score 1 goal out of five or 6 very good chances, and the oppo score two out of three or four? Shall i tell you? Its called having quality players.
Wells has improved no doubt, Wagners style suits him and its paying off but he still missess far too many to be classed as prolific. The andy cole analogy is correct. lolley , bun, patto, will score a few here and there , but we are ulter reliant on them to do so. Lets hope Elvis knows where the onion bag is!
p.s. dont forget how far we have come canalside the shares a squad worth many millions year on year progression ( that sees us still with a crap defence and 1 striker fit for purpose)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 17:22:11 GMT 1
Sorry, haven't had time to read everything earlier. But didn't you state above "we do not need another striker, far from it"..? This sounds a bit contradictory to what your saying now. Unless you changed your mind and I missed that as well, (how embarrassing for me) Strengthening the defence and forward options are not mutually exclusive, we need to do both. Well on current evidence no we do not need another striker, we are creating lots of chances and scoring lots of goals. We have options on the bench now to bring Nahki off, only time will tell if this is good enough back up. But as I've said it would be nice to, and I'm sure we will bring in another striker in the summer. There is no point in saying well what if this and what if that. What if Hiwula is 2x as good a finisher as Nahki? Just as plausible an argument as what if Nahki got injured. Topic purely created based on current stats from this season, where it clearly shows our defence is the main issue and needs to be addressed properly in summer as a priority. So first you said we didn't need one (your opening thread) , then we did (in your first reply to me), then we didn't (see above), and now we do, but in the summer (also see above). You seem to change your mind quite a lot on this debate. If Hiwula was such a better finisher than Nahki in the championship, he certainly hasn't shown it at a top side in league one, so I don't see how you can realistically postulate that. You're right when you say that we are creating lots of chances, but you make us sound like a team scoring 3 every game and we aren't! If we are creating lots and lots of chances but not actually scoring THAT many (I.e. Yesterday), that would suggest we could do with more up front!!! If Nahki got injured we would be fucked. We need a striker in the summer at least. It's so obvious I can't believe it's being debated. And once again - I don't think the fact that the defence needs strengthening as well, makes us need a striker any less. But you seem to think it's one or the other...bizarre.
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on Feb 7, 2016 17:26:04 GMT 1
Surely now Hwulal is back and we have Elvis We will rest Wells, the bloke playes every game. Why not try it,
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Post by H7 on Feb 7, 2016 17:40:18 GMT 1
Well on current evidence no we do not need another striker, we are creating lots of chances and scoring lots of goals. We have options on the bench now to bring Nahki off, only time will tell if this is good enough back up. But as I've said it would be nice to, and I'm sure we will bring in another striker in the summer. There is no point in saying well what if this and what if that. What if Hiwula is 2x as good a finisher as Nahki? Just as plausible an argument as what if Nahki got injured. Topic purely created based on current stats from this season, where it clearly shows our defence is the main issue and needs to be addressed properly in summer as a priority. So first you said we didn't need one (your opening thread) , then we did (in your first reply to me), then we didn't (see above), and now we do, but in the summer (also see above). You seem to change your mind quite a lot on this debate. If Hiwula was such a better finisher than Nahki in the championship, he certainly hasn't shown it at a top side in league one, so I don't see how you can realistically postulate that. You're right when you say that we are creating lots of chances, but you make us sound like a team scoring 3 every game and we aren't! If we are creating lots and lots of chances but not actually scoring THAT many (I.e. Yesterday), that would suggest we could do with more up front!!! If Nahki got injured we would be fucked. We need a striker in the summer at least. It's so obvious I can't believe it's being debated. And once again - I don't think the fact that the defence needs strengthening as well, makes us need a striker any less. But you seem to think it's one or the other...bizarre. You're just being pedantic now. I said I've no doubt we will sign a striker, we will in Summer as we do need competition for Nahki, is it the PRIORITY though, absolutely not. We are not struggling for goals we've scored in 14 consecutive games and yesterday was an anomoly, one of those games you dominate but somehow lose it happens multiple times every week in football. We're scoring enough goals to be a top 6 team in this league. Unfortunately we are conceding that many it's making us a bottom 6 team. That is what is so obvious. The whole point behind the post was is based on the stats this season it's our defence that needs addressing first, no where have I said we SHOULDN'T sign a striker as well, you're basing your posts on things I've not even said... Bizarre
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2016 20:16:44 GMT 1
So first you said we didn't need one (your opening thread) , then we did (in your first reply to me), then we didn't (see above), and now we do, but in the summer (also see above). You seem to change your mind quite a lot on this debate. If Hiwula was such a better finisher than Nahki in the championship, he certainly hasn't shown it at a top side in league one, so I don't see how you can realistically postulate that. You're right when you say that we are creating lots of chances, but you make us sound like a team scoring 3 every game and we aren't! If we are creating lots and lots of chances but not actually scoring THAT many (I.e. Yesterday), that would suggest we could do with more up front!!! If Nahki got injured we would be fucked. We need a striker in the summer at least. It's so obvious I can't believe it's being debated. And once again - I don't think the fact that the defence needs strengthening as well, makes us need a striker any less. But you seem to think it's one or the other...bizarre. You're just being pedantic now. I said I've no doubt we will sign a striker, we will in Summer as we do need competition for Nahki, is it the PRIORITY though, absolutely not. We are not struggling for goals we've scored in 14 consecutive games and yesterday was an anomoly, one of those games you dominate but somehow lose it happens multiple times every week in football. We're scoring enough goals to be a top 6 team in this league. Unfortunately we are conceding that many it's making us a bottom 6 team. That is what is so obvious. The whole point behind the post was is based on the stats this season it's our defence that needs addressing first, no where have I said we SHOULDN'T sign a striker as well, you're basing your posts on things I've not even said... Bizarre Haha your a comic - you're opening post (below) for this thread would suggest otherwise! followed by lots of differing perspectives from YOURSELF Mr Contradictory! (I have too much time on my hands atm, I know). “Completely fed up of this comment. We do not need a striker, far from it.”
Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zVhrqPSg“Yes we need backup for Wells (which we have currently) and I have absolutely no doubt that we will bring in another in the summer.”Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zViKvICv“Everyone knows of course we need to strengthen options up front and I've no doubt we will.”
Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zViahQ35 "Well on current evidence no we do not need another striker, we are creating lots of chances and scoring lots of goals.”
Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zVj5zptO “No where have I said we SHOULDN'T sign a striker as well, you're basing your posts on things I've not even said..”
Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zVjQSA2R
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Post by H7 on Feb 7, 2016 20:26:22 GMT 1
You're just being pedantic now. I said I've no doubt we will sign a striker, we will in Summer as we do need competition for Nahki, is it the PRIORITY though, absolutely not. We are not struggling for goals we've scored in 14 consecutive games and yesterday was an anomoly, one of those games you dominate but somehow lose it happens multiple times every week in football. We're scoring enough goals to be a top 6 team in this league. Unfortunately we are conceding that many it's making us a bottom 6 team. That is what is so obvious. The whole point behind the post was is based on the stats this season it's our defence that needs addressing first, no where have I said we SHOULDN'T sign a striker as well, you're basing your posts on things I've not even said... Bizarre Haha your a comic - you're opening post (below) for this thread would suggest otherwise! followed by lots of differing perspectives from YOURSELF Mr Contradictory! (I have too much time on my hands atm, I know). “Completely fed up of this comment. We do not need a striker, far from it.”
Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zVhrqPSg“Yes we need backup for Wells (which we have currently) and I have absolutely no doubt that we will bring in another in the summer.”Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zViKvICv“Everyone knows of course we need to strengthen options up front and I've no doubt we will.”
Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zViahQ35 "Well on current evidence no we do not need another striker, we are creating lots of chances and scoring lots of goals.”
Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zVj5zptO “No where have I said we SHOULDN'T sign a striker as well, you're basing your posts on things I've not even said..”
Read more: downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/99523/striker?page=3#ixzz3zVjQSA2RHahaha -okay when you put it like that! Look my point is simple and potentially been miscommunicated! The original post was purely based on the here and now (scoring freely but conceding too many) so when people say signing a striker will see us start winning games it won't because that won't stop the goal leak so I'd rather we prioritise defence. In summer diff story we will strengthen there of course. I think we are in agreement both areas WILL be strengthened in summer!
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