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Post by Jack on Jul 19, 2017 14:16:03 GMT 1
If one group of supporters have gone from P1 to P4 overnight there is clearly something wrong with the away priority system, either last season or this. Nobody was complaining about the system last year so it's not hard to see where the problem lies. Even the current P3 would be a slap in the face.
P1 = The loyal 4000 who were ALSO Super Priority last season.
P2 = Super Priority last season + the loyal 4000 who were not Super Priority
P3 = Season Card holders
BALLOT
IF the above had been announced I don't see any section of supporters complaining about the system. The loyal 4000 with Super Priority have been bumped up (as a further gesture by Dean for their loyalty) and nobody has effectively been demoted. Not everybody in P2 would be guaranteed a ticket for bigger games but that is the same as P1 last year (ie: Sheff Weds). In view of higher demand for tickets I think everybody would have accepted the above and just got on with it.
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Post by Torquayterrier on Jul 19, 2017 14:22:54 GMT 1
The only thing that irked me a bit was in the original scheme it looked like someone with 10+ yrs of continuous SC payments was going to be further down the pecking order than someone with 2 or 3 yrs SC but also a TOT one off payment. From what I've read since this seems to have been addressed so it's probably about as fair as it ever was likely to get as Town just don't have the records far enough back to show who's been to which away games and in many cases would be impossible to prove with pay on the day being so common. I'd be a bit annoyed if those with high priority but don't want to go to an away match take advantage and offer to sell on at inflated prices like 'get me in' etc. We're all town fans, lets not turn into spivs.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 19, 2017 14:27:22 GMT 1
If one group of supporters have gone from P1 to P4 overnight there is clearly something wrong with the away priority system, either last season or this. Nobody was complaining about the system last year so it's not hard to see where the problem lies. Even the current P3 would be a slap in the face. P1 = The loyal 4000 who were ALSO Super Priorty last season. P2 = Super Priority last season + the loyal 4000 who were not Super Priority P3 = Season Card holders BALLOT there is something very wrong with it.. nobody gave a shite last season even after the TOT was announced(a bit of a pointer there), nobody has given a shite before about who was buying what or paying into whatever..nobody bothered about missing a season of buying a card, it 'didnt matter' to them or stopping paying into the foundation, ditto, it wasnt needed for priority really.. success is whats wrong with it.. inconvenient and disappointing for some..leading to tough decisions, bit like stopping buying a card for a year or stopping paying in.. those that had those decisions forced on them im sorry, Town had this one forced on them.. given the promises Dean made it could be said to be quite clear even then that he would give as much as he could to those that stuck with it.. He has, even though very, very few thought it might happen at all.. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 19, 2017 14:30:25 GMT 1
btw, everybody can 'use' their priority in the way they see fit, that does not include ripping off fellow supporters with prices for tickets.. broken fingers should result..offenders should be 'outed'..
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Post by Jack on Jul 19, 2017 14:36:38 GMT 1
If one group of supporters have gone from P1 to P4 overnight there is clearly something wrong with the away priority system, either last season or this. Nobody was complaining about the system last year so it's not hard to see where the problem lies. Even the current P3 would be a slap in the face. P1 = The loyal 4000 who were ALSO Super Priority last season. P2 = Super Priority last season + the loyal 4000 who were not Super Priority P3 = Season Card holders BALLOT IF the above had been announced I don't see any section of supporters complaining about the system. The loyal 4000 with Super Priority have been bumped up (as a further gesture by Dean for their loyalty) and nobody has effectively been demoted. Not everybody in P2 would be guaranteed a ticket for bigger games but that is the same as P1 last year (ie: Sheff Weds). In view of higher demand for tickets I think everybody would have accepted the above and just got on with it. there is something very wrong with it.. nobody gave a shite last season even after the TOT was announced(a bit of a pointer there), nobody has given a shite before about who was buying what or paying into whatever..nobody bothered about missing a season of buying a card, it 'didnt matter' to them or stopping paying into the foundation, ditto, it wasnt needed for priority really.. success is whats wrong with it.. inconvenient and disappointing for some..leading to tough decisions, bit like stopping buying a card for a year or stopping paying in.. those that had those decisions forced on them im sorry, Town had this one forced on them.. given the promises Dean made it could be said to be quite clear even then that he would give as much as he could to those that stuck with it.. He has, even though very, very few thought it might happen at all.. I don't disagree that it was forced upon the club to a certain extent but the above system would have made everybody feel as if they were coming away from the party with a balloon. They've over-thought and over-complicated it and by doing so have grouped supporters into too many categories. |
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Post by JRx on Jul 19, 2017 14:50:51 GMT 1
So one guy speaks out and fuck the rest? Thats basically what youre saying.. Quite a few missed that season due to personal reasons just like other have missed 1 out of the 10, but if it was that season they missed they have been relegated to 0 chance at the big northern games when previously they had the best chance. This is the main area which still needs to be amended. Demand exceeds supply. People are going to miss out. Man up and get on with it. The club can't possibly be expected to contact everyone and ask for a detailed breakdown of their attendance or lack of it. I didn't have a season ticket that season or the season before for personal reasons, so am in P4, although I had one for 15+ years before then. Yet I've been able to accept it and move on. I don't see why others can't and are either acting like spoiled children or coming up with increasingly bizarre excuses why they should be higher up the pecking order. Well no, obviously they shouldn't contact everyone, but it wouldn't be hard for them to crunch the data and figure out how any system would affect certain groups of people. I'd be able to do it very easily and any business should look at how each user will be affected by any changes implemented. You obviously don't care about it, why does that mean others who have been screwed over can't wait their views? I know people who didn't buy a season ticket because of their situation living away etc, couldn't go to midweek games so didn't buy a season ticket. They still went to the majority of home games and probably more midweek away games then the vast majority of fans. But because they didnt get a season ticket in that one season they now have no realiatic chance of going to the main away games. If you think that is fair, well you are simply wrong. Just because a system has been presented with you it doesn't make it correct, clearly the club didn't get it right or they wouldn't have made changes to it already!!! |
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Post by JRx on Jul 19, 2017 14:52:01 GMT 1
there is something very wrong with it.. nobody gave a shite last season even after the TOT was announced(a bit of a pointer there), nobody has given a shite before about who was buying what or paying into whatever..nobody bothered about missing a season of buying a card, it 'didnt matter' to them or stopping paying into the foundation, ditto, it wasnt needed for priority really.. success is whats wrong with it.. inconvenient and disappointing for some..leading to tough decisions, bit like stopping buying a card for a year or stopping paying in.. those that had those decisions forced on them im sorry, Town had this one forced on them.. given the promises Dean made it could be said to be quite clear even then that he would give as much as he could to those that stuck with it.. He has, even though very, very few thought it might happen at all.. I don't disagree that it was forced upon the club to a certain extent but the above system would have made everybody feel as if they were coming away from the party with a balloon. They've over-thought and over-complicated it and by doing so have grouped supporters into too many categories. This. If it wasn't wrong why change it so much? Little tweaks fair enough but they've clearly made too many changes and didn't get enough right. |
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Post by galpharm2400 on Jul 19, 2017 15:02:19 GMT 1
Demand exceeds supply. People are going to miss out. Man up and get on with it. The club can't possibly be expected to contact everyone and ask for a detailed breakdown of their attendance or lack of it. I didn't have a season ticket that season or the season before for personal reasons, so am in P4, although I had one for 15+ years before then. Yet I've been able to accept it and move on. I don't see why others can't and are either acting like spoiled children or coming up with increasingly bizarre excuses why they should be higher up the pecking order. Well no, obviously they shouldn't contact everyone, but it wouldn't be hard for them to crunch the data and figure out how any system would affect certain groups of people. I'd be able to do it very easily and any business should look at how each user will be affected by any changes implemented. You obviously don't care about it, why does that mean others who have been screwed over can't wait their views? I know people who didn't buy a season ticket because of their situation living away etc, couldn't go to midweek games so didn't buy a season ticket. They still went to the majority of home games and probably more midweek away games then the vast majority of fans. But because they didnt get a season ticket in that one season they now have no realiatic chance of going to the main away games. If you think that is fair, well you are simply wrong. Just because a system has been presented with you it doesn't make it correct, clearly the club didn't get it right or they wouldn't have made changes to it already!!! 'certain groups of people'?? thousands of different people with very different reasons for not being within the criteria, or any criteria you could dream up?? yes you would have to take all their 'stories' and then try to work out who deserves what... impossible as a good deal of it would come with little or no documentation or proof??? your now getting into the area of anecdotal stories and personal problems being reasons for upgrading etc, its bordering on the daft.. Town are not the social services, they cant be responsible for people moving away or losing employment etc etc.. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 15:07:44 GMT 1
Demand exceeds supply. People are going to miss out. Man up and get on with it. The club can't possibly be expected to contact everyone and ask for a detailed breakdown of their attendance or lack of it. I didn't have a season ticket that season or the season before for personal reasons, so am in P4, although I had one for 15+ years before then. Yet I've been able to accept it and move on. I don't see why others can't and are either acting like spoiled children or coming up with increasingly bizarre excuses why they should be higher up the pecking order. Well no, obviously they shouldn't contact everyone, but it wouldn't be hard for them to crunch the data and figure out how any system would affect certain groups of people. I'd be able to do it very easily and any business should look at how each user will be affected by any changes implemented. You obviously don't care about it, why does that mean others who have been screwed over can't wait their views? I know people who didn't buy a season ticket because of their situation living away etc, couldn't go to midweek games so didn't buy a season ticket. They still went to the majority of home games and probably more midweek away games then the vast majority of fans. But because they didnt get a season ticket in that one season they now have no realiatic chance of going to the main away games. If you think that is fair, well you are simply wrong. Just because a system has been presented with you it doesn't make it correct, clearly the club didn't get it right or they wouldn't have made changes to it already!!! How do you know I don't care about it? Of course I'm disappointed I'm most probably going to miss out on trips to OT, Anfield etc. The reason you describe for not buying a ST is pretty much the reason I didn't have a ST for a couple of seasons. I don't think a perfectly fair system exists, but can see where the club are coming from and haven't tried to claim buying a few golden gamble tickets over the years should see me further up the list. The club have always favoured season ticket holders and B&W members for away priority, this isn't a new thing. When you don't buy a season ticket, whatever the reason, you accept that. Going up to the PL has massively increased demand, so the club have had to go further back and favour those with ST for longer. Time to dry your eyes and enjoy the season. |
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Post by JRx on Jul 19, 2017 15:12:14 GMT 1
Well no, obviously they shouldn't contact everyone, but it wouldn't be hard for them to crunch the data and figure out how any system would affect certain groups of people. I'd be able to do it very easily and any business should look at how each user will be affected by any changes implemented. You obviously don't care about it, why does that mean others who have been screwed over can't wait their views? I know people who didn't buy a season ticket because of their situation living away etc, couldn't go to midweek games so didn't buy a season ticket. They still went to the majority of home games and probably more midweek away games then the vast majority of fans. But because they didnt get a season ticket in that one season they now have no realiatic chance of going to the main away games. If you think that is fair, well you are simply wrong. Just because a system has been presented with you it doesn't make it correct, clearly the club didn't get it right or they wouldn't have made changes to it already!!! 'certain groups of people'?? Â Â thousands of different people with very different reasons for not being within the criteria, or any criteria you could dream up?? yes you would have to take all their 'stories' and then try to work out who deserves what... Â impossible as a good deal of it would come with little or no documentation or proof??? your now getting into the area of anecdotal stories and personal problems being reasons for upgrading etc, its bordering on the daft.. Town are not the social services, they cant be responsible for people moving away or losing employment etc etc.. After analysing data for years it would be very easy for me to group different people using certain criteria to figure out what any changes made would do to affect those people. It's nothing to do with personal stories or what circumstances they had it's simply the data from season ticket purchases over the last x years and any perks which were involved on previous decisions on away ticket allocation. When I said certain groups of people I'm talking about how you could group them together with the data on the system not their personal stories. It's not hard to do and as I said, any business should already do this before any changes are made which affect their paying customers. Maybe you don't want to or can't comprehend this but you are the only one bringing far-fetched stuff into this. |
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Post by brighousebandbred on Jul 19, 2017 15:13:19 GMT 1
I'm priority 4, gutted but accepted the club were in a hard place and personally realised I will try but most likely fail in most away game attempts.But on a very negative slant after talking to 4friends this week who have all followed town all over the country over several decades felt the away priority had created a bit of a divide amongst us And it was said due to not being in same priority as other friends even if a ticket was bought for some they would be sat alone, so no Thankyou was the outcome as football is all about chatting about the match sharing the victory / jubilation etc. I've come away from these conversations feeling a bit gutted as the joy from watching town is in sharing it with friends and I agreed with my friends reasoning.
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JRx
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Post by JRx on Jul 19, 2017 15:15:42 GMT 1
Well no, obviously they shouldn't contact everyone, but it wouldn't be hard for them to crunch the data and figure out how any system would affect certain groups of people. I'd be able to do it very easily and any business should look at how each user will be affected by any changes implemented. You obviously don't care about it, why does that mean others who have been screwed over can't wait their views? I know people who didn't buy a season ticket because of their situation living away etc, couldn't go to midweek games so didn't buy a season ticket. They still went to the majority of home games and probably more midweek away games then the vast majority of fans. But because they didnt get a season ticket in that one season they now have no realiatic chance of going to the main away games. If you think that is fair, well you are simply wrong. Just because a system has been presented with you it doesn't make it correct, clearly the club didn't get it right or they wouldn't have made changes to it already!!! How do you know I don't care about it? Of course I'm disappointed I'm most probably going to miss out on trips to OT, Anfield etc. The reason you describe for not buying a ST is pretty much the reason I didn't have a ST for a couple of seasons. I don't think a perfectly fair system exists, but can see where the club are coming from and haven't tried to claim buying a few golden gamble tickets over the years should see me further up the list. The club have always favoured season ticket holders and B&W members for away priority, this isn't a new thing. When you don't buy a season ticket, whatever the reason, you accept that. Going up to the PL has massively increased demand, so the club have had to go further back and favour those with ST for longer. Time to dry your eyes and enjoy the season. I'm priority two for this coming season so no need for me to dry my eyes. A system, for example, which factored in how many years out of the 10 you have held a season ticket would surely be more fair for this who may have missed a season!? Priority 1 - 10+ years, 2 - 8+, 3 - 5+ etc. Just an example and by no means claiming to be perfect but surely more 'fair'!? |
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Post by harrythedog on Jul 19, 2017 16:14:47 GMT 1
Got to say that as one of the 4000 with no other memberships i'm please with the lift from 3 to 2. I was a bit disgruntled as i could have joined B&W last Wednesday and qualified for Priority 1 and feel that this as a whole lot fairer. I do go away and over the last 10 years or so have been away as many as 12 and as little as 4 games in a season. But i've been there and done it, younger fans probably do as many as they can and there are also older fans who go every week who perhaps don't let family or work get in the way. They should be priority 1. Amongst all the stories of loyalty in this thread, anybody remember when tickets for the Autoglass final went on sale on Wednesday 30th March 1994. We were still in Bournemouth having attended the league game the night before when we won 2.1. There's always somebody with their nose put out  |
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Post by detox on Jul 19, 2017 18:12:39 GMT 1
For the numbers involved, ie Super priority previously, with just a SC last season and this season it seems a bit churlish to eliminate the status the club have given to Super priority for the other groups (10 years and 3 years). Why would they classify these fans the same as fans who hadn't any B&WF, Patron or TOT membership and put them in P4 rather than P3 ? A 3 season card profile puts you in P2, but a 2 season card profile puts you in P4 ? Doesn't make logical sense to me. I've tweeted Sean anyway because I don't know who or how to contact anyone in the ATT . Presumably because people with a two season card profile have paid half price for theirs, where as people with a three year + one have paid full whack for one. I'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you, as it mean you're not higher up the priority list than you'd like. Also, I seem to remember you been one of the most vociferous non-attendees, so hard to have too much sympathy, to be honest. not sure I understand where you get that from, can you elaborate ? As regards the price, I don't think the club have factored in cost else the 'seniors' and juniors who received discounted SC prices in the past would surely have been excluded if your suggestion was to be valid ? Whatever you say, it still seems odd to me that the 'super priority' enjoyed by fans with 2 years of SC has been excluded, whereas a 3 year SC history hasn't. . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 18:28:50 GMT 1
I'm prioroty 14 and i don't give a fuck.
If i can get to see the lads in the FA cup when the allication is increased then fine. If not I'm still a town fan of x number of years with memories that will last forever.
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 19, 2017 18:42:18 GMT 1
Captainslapper...you sir...are a wise man...kudos. Obviously the club realised their mistake. Kudos to them also! Strong, Strong rumours that Slapps has been 'corresponding' with Mr Jarvis since the announcement. What was involved in this to bump himself up 2 categories remains to be confirmed   Just the 1 Im afraid, but happy enough with that. Im sure the wife won't moan too much about doing his ironing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 19:14:32 GMT 1
I'm prioroty 14 and i don't give a fuck. If i can get to see the lads in the FA cup when the allication is increased then fine. If not I'm still a town fan of x number of years with memories that will last forever. Well done, great post! You are an example of a level-headed realist and I love you for that. Nobody can mess with your memories. UTT |
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Post by Chips Longhorn on Jul 19, 2017 19:19:13 GMT 1
Strong, Strong rumours that Slapps has been 'corresponding' with Mr Jarvis since the announcement. What was involved in this to bump himself up 2 categories remains to be confirmed Just the 1 Im afraid, but happy enough with that. Im sure the wife won't moan too much about doing his ironing. Is the rumour true that you mutually apply ronseal and brasso every Friday night ? |
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Post by northnottsblue on Jul 19, 2017 19:31:44 GMT 1
I'm prioroty 14 and i don't give a fuck. If i can get to see the lads in the FA cup when the allication is increased then fine. If not I'm still a town fan of x number of years with memories that will last forever. I couldn't have put it better.Top man. At least I'll get to Barnsley on Saturday,even if there's no free beer ! |
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Post by duffterrier on Jul 19, 2017 19:34:14 GMT 1
Have the club made any announcements as yet on the numbers in the priority bands? That might pour water on the fire.....it might add fuel to it though as well!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 19:44:14 GMT 1
Have the club made any announcements as yet on the numbers in the priority bands? That might pour water on the fire.....it might add fuel to it though as well! Whatever the numbers that won't tell you how many will actually want away tickets. I know quite a few P1 and P2 that don't do away games. |
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Jimmy Nicholson Terrier
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Post by johns on Jul 19, 2017 19:48:07 GMT 1
I'm prioroty 14 and i don't give a fuck. If i can get to see the lads in the FA cup when the allication is increased then fine. If not I'm still a town fan of x number of years with memories that will last forever. Well done, great post! You are an example of a level-headed realist and I love you for that. Nobody can mess with your memories. UTT totally agree great post but people like this shouldn't be struggling for tickets it's a fucking joke! |
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Post by duffterrier on Jul 19, 2017 19:51:52 GMT 1
Have the club made any announcements as yet on the numbers in the priority bands? That might pour water on the fire.....it might add fuel to it though as well! Whatever the numbers that won't tell you how many will actually want away tickets. I know quite a few P1 and P2 that don't do away games. Agree....but it would at least give people a better idea of where they stand. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Jul 19, 2017 19:57:38 GMT 1
based on nothing but guesswork, I reckon
cat 1 will be about 600.
Cat 2 about 5000
cat 3 something like 2000
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Post by ilsonterrier on Jul 19, 2017 20:01:44 GMT 1
Got to say that as one of the 4000 with no other memberships i'm please with the lift from 3 to 2. I was a bit disgruntled as i could have joined B&W last Wednesday and qualified for Priority 1 and feel that this as a whole lot fairer. I do go away and over the last 10 years or so have been away as many as 12 and as little as 4 games in a season. But i've been there and done it, younger fans probably do as many as they can and there are also older fans who go every week who perhaps don't let family or work get in the way. They should be priority 1. Amongst all the stories of loyalty in this thread, anybody remember when tickets for the Autoglass final went on sale on Wednesday 30th March 1994. We were still in Bournemouth having attended the league game the night before when we won 2.1. There's always somebody with their nose put out Yes - I was still in Bournemouth as well. The more cynical would say that the club weren't that bothered about not prioritising the fans who were prepared to travel to the other end of the country on a Tuesday night as they weren't running a coach to the game anyway. Think the supporters club were the only ones who ran a coach that night. My mum went down in her lunch hour to queue for tickets for us - she ended up being there 3 hours !! |
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Post by raggytash on Jul 19, 2017 20:03:57 GMT 1
Have the club made any announcements as yet on the numbers in the priority bands? That might pour water on the fire.....it might add fuel to it though as well! Whatever the numbers that won't tell you how many will actually want away tickets. I know quite a few P1 and P2 that don't do away games. I also know a few people who are priority 1&2 and haven't been to an away game all last season ,barring Wembley . So there's hope for those in 3&4 , chill out guys  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 21:13:45 GMT 1
Presumably because people with a two season card profile have paid half price for theirs, where as people with a three year + one have paid full whack for one. I'm guessing it doesn't make sense to you, as it mean you're not higher up the priority list than you'd like. Also, I seem to remember you been one of the most vociferous non-attendees, so hard to have too much sympathy, to be honest. not sure I understand where you get that from, can you elaborate ? As regards the price, I don't think the club have factored in cost else the 'seniors' and juniors who received discounted SC prices in the past would surely have been excluded if your suggestion was to be valid ? Whatever you say, it still seems odd to me that the 'super priority' enjoyed by fans with 2 years of SC has been excluded, whereas a 3 year SC history hasn't. . I think there's a big difference between someone buying a senior ST or in the FM Lower (neither of which have ever come into it) and the doubling of ST holders we had when prices were halved. As for your vociferous non-attendance, a quick search revealed these corkers: |
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Post by detox on Jul 19, 2017 21:37:31 GMT 1
not sure I understand where you get that from, can you elaborate ? As regards the price, I don't think the club have factored in cost else the 'seniors' and juniors who received discounted SC prices in the past would surely have been excluded if your suggestion was to be valid ? Whatever you say, it still seems odd to me that the 'super priority' enjoyed by fans with 2 years of SC has been excluded, whereas a 3 year SC history hasn't. . I think there's a big difference between someone buying a senior ST or in the FM Lower (neither of which have ever come into it) and the doubling of ST holders we had when prices were halved. As for your vociferous non-attendance, a quick search revealed these corkers: Ah..back in the days of late LC, Powell and Robins..,yes, and I stand by those remarks 100%...and all the other comments I made about pricing, ticketing, football tactics, lack of effort, Clibbens price inelasticity (?) and the general direction the club was in, and the falling gates as a result - happily everything I said then has now been addressed in the exact way I said it should be...and you, and everyone else, are reaping the rewards ! Even Dean has admitted it was 'dire'...so no apologies from me . Thank you for reminding me of my wisdom from that time...(although there were others who thought the same tbh) without the actions of us do you think we'd be where we are today ? You can thank me later.... |
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Post by Floyds on Jul 19, 2017 21:37:40 GMT 1
Got to say that as one of the 4000 with no other memberships i'm please with the lift from 3 to 2. I was a bit disgruntled as i could have joined B&W last Wednesday and qualified for Priority 1 and feel that this as a whole lot fairer. I do go away and over the last 10 years or so have been away as many as 12 and as little as 4 games in a season. But i've been there and done it, younger fans probably do as many as they can and there are also older fans who go every week who perhaps don't let family or work get in the way. They should be priority 1. Amongst all the stories of loyalty in this thread, anybody remember when tickets for the Autoglass final went on sale on Wednesday 30th March 1994. We were still in Bournemouth having attended the league game the night before when we won 2.1. There's always somebody with their nose put out Yes - I was still in Bournemouth as well. The more cynical would say that the club weren't that bothered about not prioritising the fans who were prepared to travel to the other end of the country on a Tuesday night as they weren't running a coach to the game anyway. Think the supporters club were the only ones who ran a coach that night. My mum went down in her lunch hour to queue for tickets for us - she ended up being there 3 hours !! I was there at 8am and was there until lunchtime! Stood on the wasteland by the open end for ages... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 21:41:32 GMT 1
I think there's a big difference between someone buying a senior ST or in the FM Lower (neither of which have ever come into it) and the doubling of ST holders we had when prices were halved. As for your vociferous non-attendance, a quick search revealed these corkers: Ah..back in the days of late LC, Powell and Robins..,yes, and I stand by those remarks 100%...and all the other comments I made about pricing, ticketing, football tactics, lack of effort, Clibbens price inelasticity (?) and the general direction the club was in, and the falling gates as a result - happily everything I said then has now been addressed in the exact way I said it should be...and you, and everyone else, are reaping the rewards ! Even Dean has admitted it was 'dire'...so no apologies from me . Thank you for reminding me of my wisdom from that time...(although there were others who thought the same tbh) without the actions of us do you think we'd be where we are today ? You can thank me later.... Maybe you should be pushed up to P1 (alongside the idiots and people with empty lives) for your sage advice. |
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