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Post by tomal2 on Feb 17, 2019 22:15:05 GMT 1
Over 50 appearances between the 3 of them. Think Scannell had 15 16 apparently - 8 of them starts. Although Wikipedia has trouble counting as they also have him down for 7 appearances as a sub. Either way I'm struggling to remember any of them. I have many memories of that season, but Sean's contribution isn't one of them. I tend to remember him as our sole attacking option under Chris Powell. Now I’m posting this without checking, and relying on my dodgy memory. But Villa away, we were awful first half and could have gone in 4-0 down at the break. The early 2nd half subs were Wells and Scannell and they totally changed the game. The third substitute was Hef and a few seconds later, lifelong memories were being formed!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 22:15:14 GMT 1
I dont tend to read them but when are the accounts for the summer period published? will they settle the mbenza argument? If we are obligated to buy will they come out of this seasons budget or next? I would imagine this season, as we originally intended. On the other hand don't we normally pay transfer fees of this magnitude over a number of years, and not in one fell swoop??
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Diakhaby
Feb 17, 2019 22:16:06 GMT 1
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Post by townrwe on Feb 17, 2019 22:16:06 GMT 1
It isn't an option. We have to sign him It is an option. I remember Dean discussing it at the Q&A at the beginning of the season. Any party can turn down the deal at the end of the loan deal. It was the same with Flo and Lossl. The club exercised their right to purchase on those two this season but we're not bound in to having to buy them. Catagorically we do not have to purchase Mbenza at the end of the season. Isn't mbenza's contract up at the end of the season? Why would you buy him? He's hardly played this year, a tribunal will value him slightly higher than a bag"o"chips.
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zoso
David Wagner Terrier
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Post by zoso on Feb 17, 2019 23:11:47 GMT 1
16 apparently - 8 of them starts. Although Wikipedia has trouble counting as they also have him down for 7 appearances as a sub. Either way I'm struggling to remember any of them. I have many memories of that season, but Sean's contribution isn't one of them. I tend to remember him as our sole attacking option under Chris Powell. Now I’m posting this without checking, and relying on my dodgy memory. But Villa away, we were awful first half and could have gone in 4-0 down at the break. The early 2nd half subs were Wells and Scannell and they totally changed the game. The third substitute was Hef and a few seconds later, lifelong memories were being formed! Oh, what a night....
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Post by shawsie on Feb 17, 2019 23:58:10 GMT 1
It isn't an option. We have to sign him It is an option. I remember Dean discussing it at the Q&A at the beginning of the season. Any party can turn down the deal at the end of the loan deal. It was the same with Flo and Lossl. The club exercised their right to purchase on those two this season but we're not bound in to having to buy them. Catagorically we do not have to purchase Mbenza at the end of the season. If true thank chuff for that. To think of paying 13m based on what we have seen is bonkers.
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 18, 2019 0:45:00 GMT 1
Absolutely hope that is right. Paying anything over £2m for him would be crazy. Even £2m would be a big leap of faith.
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Post by ritchie on Feb 18, 2019 1:17:46 GMT 1
Absolutely hope that is right. Paying anything over £2m for him would be crazy. Even £2m would be a big leap of faith. Bloody hell slapps, it really wouldnt, lets not be daft
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Post by Spike24 on Feb 18, 2019 5:26:46 GMT 1
I love the confidence a lot seem to have in diakhaby and mbenza....am just not sure why! Hope I'm wrong but neither look to be the real deal to me - only time will tell though and to be fair they haven't played much. Think a few need to be realistic re next year's expectations particularly if 2 or 3 go a la billing, mooy, schindler, kongolo. Not easy to replace even with a decent war chest. It amazes me too Apart from pace I’ve not seen anything from either of them to give me any confidence that they will come good I hope I’m wrong I don't know, that little flick against Everton showed he probably has a few tricks in his locker, possibly.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 9:35:39 GMT 1
It is an option. I remember Dean discussing it at the Q&A at the beginning of the season. Any party can turn down the deal at the end of the loan deal. It was the same with Flo and Lossl. The club exercised their right to purchase on those two this season but we're not bound in to having to buy them. Catagorically we do not have to purchase Mbenza at the end of the season. Isn't mbenza's contract up at the end of the season? Why would you buy him? He's hardly played this year, a tribunal will value him slightly higher than a bag"o"chips. So basically he's been given away if we don't have to honour the agreement. Something doesn't ring true here.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Feb 18, 2019 9:46:36 GMT 1
Isn't mbenza's contract up at the end of the season? Why would you buy him? He's hardly played this year, a tribunal will value him slightly higher than a bag"o"chips. So basically he's been given away if we don't have to honour the agreement. Something doesn't ring true here. No. We have paid for his one year loan, the number thrown about is £2 million but i have no idea what the figure is. We have the option to buy him, we have honoured the agreement by loaning him for one year and we will either take the option to buy him or we wont, that is the agreement. I don't get what is difficult to understand, no offence intended. We took a player on a one year loan and paid the club good money for the loan. Part of the initial agreement is that we get the option to buy him when the one year loan is up, at a previously agreed fee (maybe £11 million). The ball is in our court. We decide the outcome.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 10:18:43 GMT 1
So basically he's been given away if we don't have to honour the agreement. Something doesn't ring true here. No. We have paid for his one year loan, the number thrown about is £2 million but i have no idea what the figure is. We have the option to buy him, we have honoured the agreement by loaning him for one year and we will either take the option to buy him or we wont, that is the agreement. I don't get what is difficult to understand, no offence intended. We took a player on a one year loan and paid the club good money for the loan. Part of the initial agreement is that we get the option to buy him when the one year loan is up, at a previously agreed fee (maybe £11 million). The ball is in our court. We decide the outcome. Difficult to understand why they would put a figure of £11 million? on a player and expect us to pay it, when we could sign him theoretically for free.
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Post by allan 1958 (OAF-WROY)(SSLFF) on Feb 18, 2019 10:18:49 GMT 1
So basically he's been given away if we don't have to honour the agreement. Something doesn't ring true here. No. We have paid for his one year loan, the number thrown about is £2 million but i have no idea what the figure is. We have the option to buy him, we have honoured the agreement by loaning him for one year and we will either take the option to buy him or we wont, that is the agreement. I don't get what is difficult to understand, no offence intended. We took a player on a one year loan and paid the club good money for the loan. Part of the initial agreement is that we get the option to buy him when the one year loan is up, at a previously agreed fee (maybe £11 million). The ball is in our court. We decide the outcome. I think the gist of this "puzzle" is as follows - For what ever reason we were not able or willing to complete the transfer but needed this role in the squad.
- There is a hidden or secret clause that town will buy him, but there would be criteria attached
- The selling club is afraid of losing him on a "free" and was desperate for a deal of any nature.
- There would be a note in the accounts to disclose any irrevocable contract signed that can be enforced.
I guess there is a gentleman's agreement that if we maintain our premier league status and he does NOT commit some heinous crime we have to buy him. I think this plays on the idea that we need to have a "good rep" to complete big deals in Europe.
Therefore no enforceable contract.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 10:30:44 GMT 1
So basically he's been given away if we don't have to honour the agreement. Something doesn't ring true here. No. We have paid for his one year loan, the number thrown about is £2 million but i have no idea what the figure is. We have the option to buy him, we have honoured the agreement by loaning him for one year and we will either take the option to buy him or we wont, that is the agreement. I don't get what is difficult to understand, no offence intended. We took a player on a one year loan and paid the club good money for the loan. Part of the initial agreement is that we get the option to buy him when the one year loan is up, at a previously agreed fee (maybe £11 million). The ball is in our court. We decide the outcome. My post incidentally was in response to townrwe saying his contract is up at the end of the season. If it isn't then obviously it's no longer difficult to understand.
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Post by ritchie on Feb 18, 2019 11:06:03 GMT 1
strangely no official mention of mbenza contract length when he signed for montpellier, but their fans seem to think it was till 2020. given he only signed for them in jan 2017 3.5 year contract till 2020 seems more likely
they seem quite sure we are obligated to buy though, pretty sure dean said the same didnt he? it didnt say it on our site as they didnt want other clubs knowing they had the brass
the fee looks bad now but a summer working on his strength and a coach properly utilising his pace i do have hope
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Diakhaby
Feb 18, 2019 11:10:01 GMT 1
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Post by jackosbrylcream on Feb 18, 2019 11:10:01 GMT 1
If we are obligated to buy then surely an easy way out is to just offer mbenza pittance, say £50/ week.
He refuses the contract, we have honoured the offer of £11million or whatever fee is being quoted. Job done.
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Post by ritchie on Feb 18, 2019 11:17:25 GMT 1
If we are obligated to buy then surely an easy way out is to just offer mbenza pittance, say £50/ week. He refuses the contract, we have honoured the offer of £11million or whatever fee is being quoted. Job done. Interesting point - not sure how it works regards to contract. however, id assume we have it already signed and agreed if we are obligated to buy. otherwise if he'd have signed and scored 20 pl goals this season he'd just reject our gentlemans agreement.
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digs
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Diakhaby
Feb 18, 2019 12:04:48 GMT 1
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Post by digs on Feb 18, 2019 12:04:48 GMT 1
How can we be obliged to buy a player if we have an option its simple if we dont want him at the end of the season he goes back to where he came from,not Towns problem
The 22-year-old winger, who is equally comfortable operating on the left or right flanks, joins the Terriers on a season-long loan, with the Club having the option to then make the move a permanent transfer at the end of the 2018/19 season.
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 18, 2019 12:30:44 GMT 1
Absolutely hope that is right. Paying anything over £2m for him would be crazy. Even £2m would be a big leap of faith. Bloody hell slapps, it really wouldnt, lets not be daft From what hes shown this season?? Really? I can only go on what Ive seen, not what Im supposed to have seen.
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Post by Porrohman on Feb 18, 2019 12:32:22 GMT 1
How can we be obliged to buy a player if we have an option its simple if we dont want him at the end of the season he goes back to where he came from,not Towns problem The 22-year-old winger, who is equally comfortable operating on the left or right flanks, joins the Terriers on a season-long loan, with the Club having the option to then make the move a permanent transfer at the end of the 2018/19 season. Because they can't very well put "it's a pretend loan with an optional transfer at the end to help Montpellier get round French tax laws" can they ? 😉
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 18, 2019 12:35:30 GMT 1
Cardiff are trying to get out of paying for a player they actually did sign permanently! If we are obliged to buy Mbenza for £12m or whatever, maybe we should do what theyre doing and ask around the other prem clubs for ideas as to how we can get out of it!
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Post by Porrohman on Feb 18, 2019 12:37:48 GMT 1
Bloody hell slapps, it really wouldnt, lets not be daft From what hes shown this season?? Really? I can only go on what Ive seen, not what Im supposed to have seen. You think he's worth less than a striker from a mid table League One team ? It sums our season up that he gets injured just as he gets a manager that wants to play a style that suits him and Diakhaby.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 12:46:18 GMT 1
I dont tend to read them but when are the accounts for the summer period published? will they settle the mbenza argument? If we are obligated to buy will they come out of this seasons budget or next? The next financials are YE 30.6.18 which have to be filed by 31.3.19. With regards to most of our summer business for this season, it will fall under YE 30.6.19, so only another 13/14 months to wait to see how this season has impacted financially.
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Post by joeyjoneslocker on Feb 18, 2019 12:49:31 GMT 1
No. We have paid for his one year loan, the number thrown about is £2 million but i have no idea what the figure is. We have the option to buy him, we have honoured the agreement by loaning him for one year and we will either take the option to buy him or we wont, that is the agreement. I don't get what is difficult to understand, no offence intended. We took a player on a one year loan and paid the club good money for the loan. Part of the initial agreement is that we get the option to buy him when the one year loan is up, at a previously agreed fee (maybe £11 million). The ball is in our court. We decide the outcome. Difficult to understand why they would put a figure of £11 million? on a player and expect us to pay it, when we could sign him theoretically for free. I get your point if the players contract was up at the end of this season. It isn't though, no club would ever allow a player in his final year of a contract leave a club on loan for one year with only an option to buy, it would have to be an agreement to buy with no option.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 13:05:13 GMT 1
Difficult to understand why they would put a figure of £11 million? on a player and expect us to pay it, when we could sign him theoretically for free. I get your point if the players contract was up at the end of this season. It isn't though, no club would ever allow a player in his final year of a contract leave a club on loan for one year with only an option to buy, it would have to be an agreement to buy with no option. If we have to buy Jason Puncheon I’m sending my season ticket back.
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Post by ritchie on Feb 18, 2019 13:05:26 GMT 1
Bloody hell slapps, it really wouldnt, lets not be daft From what hes shown this season?? Really? I can only go on what Ive seen, not what Im supposed to have seen. why must the decision be based on 600 minutes of football for an ultra defensive manager under which very few attacking players have flourished? surely his record in his previous season, the odd glimpses weve seen, and how Jan rates him in training is a better way to look at it? he's got blistering pace, can carry a ball and strike a ball well. the cross he put in for mounie is the only real tangible bit of quality we've seen but was probably better than any the much loved VLP put in! If you offered him as a 2m punt, in a world where flo is worth multimillion pounds, id snap your arm off
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 18, 2019 13:22:05 GMT 1
Can carry a ball and strike a ball? Have I missed something? All Ive seen is a couple of good crosses. The rest has been pretty poor all round- a bit embarrassingly so on occasion. Why is it better to rate him on what hes supposed to be able to do, than what hes actually done in 600 minutes? The manager doesn't make him not be able to read the game, pass, shoot or stand up to any kind of physical challenge, no matter what his tactics are.
You can get asked to pay £2m for a striker from league 1 but he'll have had to have been banging them in for a price like that and show a lot of potential.
IMO if you just look at what Mbenza has actually done when hes been given chances this season, then £2m seems about right- maybe a bit generous though. If hed come through our youth system, rather from Montpellier, then I doubt anyone would question his value being £2m- most would jump at the chance of selling him for that.
And we had our pants taken down over Flo. We could have found better in L1 for £1m
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Post by ritchie on Feb 18, 2019 13:58:07 GMT 1
Can carry a ball and strike a ball? Have I missed something? All Ive seen is a couple of good crosses. The rest has been pretty poor all round- a bit embarrassingly so on occasion. Why is it better to rate him on what hes supposed to be able to do, than what hes actually done in 600 minutes? The manager doesn't make him not be able to read the game, pass, shoot or stand up to any kind of physical challenge, no matter what his tactics are. You can get asked to pay £2m for a striker from league 1 but he'll have had to have been banging them in for a price like that and show a lot of potential.IMO if you just look at what Mbenza has actually done when hes been given chances this season, then £2m seems about right- maybe a bit generous though. If hed come through our youth system, rather from Montpellier, then I doubt anyone would question his value being £2m- most would jump at the chance of selling him for that. And we had our pants taken down over Flo. We could have found better in L1 for £1m Do you have to have seen it live? You can see this from his highlights reel when we signed him - and no im not advocating signing him on that alone - theres something there to work with. I mention the crossing because VLP was a very important outlet in our promotion season and couldnt even cross a ball. I can see the raw attributes for mbenza potentially doing that job better than VLP Second bold is just ridiculous. Grant had 6months on his contract, you'd be looking at double that minimum if not. Its not a yardstick. we sold a striker banging them in in L1 for 8m. mbenza cost a pretty savvy club nearly 2m when they signed him from a teams bench, he then did well at a good level. 2 million for a winger that scored 3 in 12 starts then 10 in 26 starts, in a much higher quality league than L1, would be considered good business by most folk. Your valuations are about 12 years out of date Now yes if we could get out of the deal for 11m id assess our options as the brass might be better spent, but if we signed him for 2m i'd be very excited to see what he could do. Do you not think its pretty ridiculous to judge our attacking players on this season? If not, what is pritchards worth? should we sell for 2m based on this season? or would it make more sense to take into account the previous record in a not so difficult league, for teams that attack properly?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 14:30:50 GMT 1
Difficult to understand why they would put a figure of £11 million? on a player and expect us to pay it, when we could sign him theoretically for free. I get your point if the players contract was up at the end of this season. It isn't though, no club would ever allow a player in his final year of a contract leave a club on loan for one year with only an option to buy, it would have to be an agreement to buy with no option. And as i said, if that is the case then there is no difficulty in understanding, i blame townrwe. 😉
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Post by royrace on Feb 18, 2019 14:57:52 GMT 1
Bloody hell slapps, it really wouldnt, lets not be daft From what hes shown this season?? Really? I can only go on what Ive seen, not what Im supposed to have seen. You must have missed that cross for the Mounie header, he has also taken 2 good corners and once when tracking back he looked unbelievably quick although granted didn't get a tackle in. He also beat a Man Utd player once at Old Trafford although didn't manage to find a man with his pass afterwards. Surely there's £2M quids worth there! It was against premier league players too not 2 bob championship pub players. Him and Diakhaby will have a field day against players who aren't trying to tackle them in the championship next season, he'll prob be worth £20M then, he plays for the Belgium U21's too, blah blah blah, waffle waffle waffle.
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Post by Captainslapper on Feb 18, 2019 15:00:10 GMT 1
Can carry a ball and strike a ball? Have I missed something? All Ive seen is a couple of good crosses. The rest has been pretty poor all round- a bit embarrassingly so on occasion. Why is it better to rate him on what hes supposed to be able to do, than what hes actually done in 600 minutes? The manager doesn't make him not be able to read the game, pass, shoot or stand up to any kind of physical challenge, no matter what his tactics are. You can get asked to pay £2m for a striker from league 1 but he'll have had to have been banging them in for a price like that and show a lot of potential.IMO if you just look at what Mbenza has actually done when hes been given chances this season, then £2m seems about right- maybe a bit generous though. If hed come through our youth system, rather from Montpellier, then I doubt anyone would question his value being £2m- most would jump at the chance of selling him for that. And we had our pants taken down over Flo. We could have found better in L1 for £1m Do you have to have seen it live? You can see this from his highlights reel when we signed him - and no im not advocating signing him on that alone - theres something there to work with. I mention the crossing because VLP was a very important outlet in our promotion season and couldnt even cross a ball. I can see the raw attributes for mbenza potentially doing that job better than VLP Second bold is just ridiculous. Grant had 6months on his contract, you'd be looking at double that minimum if not. Its not a yardstick. we sold a striker banging them in in L1 for 8m. mbenza cost a pretty savvy club nearly 2m when they signed him from a teams bench, he then did well at a good level. 2 million for a winger that scored 3 in 12 starts then 10 in 26 starts, in a much higher quality league than L1, would be considered good business by most folk. Your valuations are about 12 years out of date Now yes if we could get out of the deal for 11m id assess our options as the brass might be better spent, but if we signed him for 2m i'd be very excited to see what he could do. Do you not think its pretty ridiculous to judge our attacking players on this season? If not, what is pritchards worth? should we sell for 2m based on this season? or would it make more sense to take into account the previous record in a not so difficult league, for teams that attack properly? You'd rather go by a highlights video rather than watching him live? You could put together a highlights package that makes Ishmael Miller look like Harry Kane! Thats what highlights packages are for. His highlights package from this season would last 10 seconds and consist of 2 crosses!! We got Grant for £2m because even though hed done well at that level, there weren;t a host of clubs in for him an none from the prem but us. Its extremely rare for a striker at that level, even one scoring a lot, to go for anything approaching what we got for Rhodes. Callum wilson was a freescoring striker for Coventry in L1 but only cost Bournemouth £3m.. 2 years after we sold Rhodes. Like i said, Im not going by what hes supposed to be like, or what a highlight package suggests hes been like with very selective editing.. Im just going by what he WAS like. We payed £2m for Grant, but if he shows as little as Mbenza has done, it will be a big disappointment.
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